Government unions are probably going out of business.

[500grains]

And that is a good thing.

http://thehill.com/opinion/civil-ri...ns-anticipate-a-loss-before-the-supreme-court

I never understood why government employees thought they needed a union. They get every fringe benefit known to mankind, earn above market wages, and retire early with a generous pension. I say they have too much bargaining power and it needs to be reduced.

 

[Bender]

I don’t think any government employee should have the right to unionize.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

I've seen good Unions, and I've seen bad Unions.

I've been in good Unions, and I've been in bad Unions.

My opinion, except for those few, rare, GOOD Unions, the rest should be abolished. And hung up to dry. After being tarred, feathered, drawn, and quartered. To be "bought and paid for" whilst touting "we're here for the worker" is tantamount to treason. Traitors are shot, right?

 

[MtnCreek]

Hopefully it will crush public unions. Public unions bargain with politicians that know they'll be long gone when the costs come due and besides, it's not their money they're giving away.

 

[kansas]

I've been a union member through several jobs in my lifetime and haven't found one yet that is worth it's dues. The one I'm currently a member of works hard at keeping unproductive members jobs. They tell me that they have to represent everyone even if they won't come to work or do their job when they get there. My point is that by keeping members employed that won't come to work they're hurting the rest of the membership that DO come to work and are productive. Every time we go to the bargaining table they bring up attendance and production of the membership as a reason that we cannot gain a better contract. Then the worst thing that I've witnessed lately is an employee that was disciplined harshly (walked out with a week off no pay) for a minor infraction when that member is one of the "good " workers. In my opinion the union did a piss poor job of representing a worker that normally stays out of trouble. Unions are killing themselves. They need to protect themselves by policing their membership and making certain requirements to be a member, like good attendance.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Don't conflate federal government labor unions with other types of unions. They don't have the right to strike.

They can negotiate in good faith, or bring a law suit if necessary, but they don't have the big stick available to them that other labor unions regularly employ.

 

[FS1]

Don't conflate federal government labor unions with other types of unions. They don't have the right to strike.

They can negotiate in good faith, or bring a law suit if necessary, but they don't have the big stick available to them that other labor unions regularly employ.

But they do have the right to do nothing and still get paid. They are impossible to fire so what is the incentive to actually work. If you have ever dealt with Govt. you know exactly what I am saying.

 

[Yasherka]

I view unions generally as a cancer. They did yeoman's work back in the day when they were desperately needed, but have since morphed into the corrupt piles of excrement we see today. I have belonged to a few and none of them were worth it.

Public sector unions should be abolished, as well as government mandated private sector membership. If a union does a good job they will flourish, if not they will sink into irrelevance.

 

[Fig]

Don't conflate federal government labor unions with other types of unions. They don't have the right to strike.

They can negotiate in good faith, or bring a law suit if necessary, but they don't have the big stick available to them that other labor unions regularly employ.

They cannot negotiate in good faith, period. Unions came to be because an individual worker could not negotiate with oligarchs who controlled whole industries. Only by organizing and threatening the entire work force were they able to get concessions from management/ownership. In a government employee union the roles are flipped. The unions are negotiating with the politician, who they gave money to and helped elect, so in essence they are sitting on both sides of the table, and there is no one representing the tax payer. Which is why the worst people get the highest paid jobs and have the lowest performance, and we keep being told we have to pay them so much and give them so many benefits, "so we can attract the best". Utter bullshit. Public unions ought to be completely illegal, and anyone trying to organize one fired and prosecuted.
Here's what one commie/socialist had to say about it:

 

[Redmanss]

When until recently struck down by the President's order, a federal employee could do up to 100% of their federally paid work for their union's business instead of doing the peoples' work they were being paid for at their respective agency, it goes to show what the past administration's real purpose was. The expansion of government service was nothing more than a payback to the unions filling their coffers.

It's a crying shame and an embarrassing "fuck you" to the citizens of our country that union members can still perform up to 25% of their paid government time working on union business. How any democrat can not only defend that but blast the President for reducing it to that high of a level only goes to show they don't give two shits about budgets, federal performance, advancement of our ways, or any of the veterans, impoverished, minorities, immigrants, or any other class of people they pretend to be defending. If they really cared, they would be making every attempt to ensure the federal employees were performing at their maximum potential, getting every red cent of federal spending worth out of their employees.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

They cannot negotiate in good faith, period. Unions came to be because an individual worker could not negotiate with oligarchs who controlled whole industries. Only by organizing and threatening the entire work force were they able to get concessions from management/ownership. In a government employee union the roles are flipped. The unions are negotiating with the politician, who they gave money to and helped elect, so in essence they are sitting on both sides of the table, and there is no one representing the tax payer. Which is why the worst people get the highest paid jobs and have the lowest performance, and we keep being told we have to pay them so much and give them so many benefits, "so we can attract the best". Utter bullshit. Public unions ought to be completely illegal, and anyone trying to organize one fired and prosecuted.
Here's what one commie/socialist had to say about it:

You have no idea what you are talking about. Most federal govt employee unions are made up solely of journeyman members. Once you promote to a managerial position you are no longer a bargaining member. There are also different layers of union activity. At the national level, yes, there is lobbying that goes on. But most of the activity takes place at the local level, where the union is the only recourse for pushing back against promotion minded bureaucrats that would fuck anyone over they could, if it meant they would get their next promotion.

The only people that were ever allowed to be full time union stewards were the union presidents of each district. Local union stewards are expected to perform their regular duties in addition to union stewardship.

 

[Redmanss]

I don't care if it was only one total that could do union work on gov't dime and it was for five minutes a month. That's one too fucking many.

As a contractor, our time was watched like a hawk. If we were doing company work, we had to log it as such on our time sheets and DoS/DoD wasn't paying for work we weren't performing for them. If we didn't have all our ducks in a line, the COR came down on us like an axe. It is completely confounding that anyone would reasonably argue that the American taxpayer should expect anything less.

Work what you clock, clock what you work.

 

[ArmyJerry]

We need to crush our federal government, every part of it that is not constitutionally mandated, including all alphabet agencies, they do no good, cost too much, and are an existential threat to our republic.

 

[Fig]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Most federal govt employee unions are made up solely of journeyman members. Once you promote to a managerial position you are no longer a bargaining member. There are also different layers of union activity. At the national level, yes, there is lobbying that goes on. But most of the activity takes place at the local level, where the union is the only recourse for pushing back against promotion minded bureaucrats that would fuck anyone over they could, if it meant they would get their next promotion.

The only people that were ever allowed to be full time union stewards were the union presidents of each district. Local union stewards are expected to perform their regular duties in addition to union stewardship.

How is any of the above relevant? It isn’t, and addresses none of the inherent and systemic problems with government servants acting as if they worked for the private sector (i.e. it’s SOMEONE’S MONEY they’re bargaining for). That is, except your utterly false claims that AFSCME acts locally, and does not own bought and paid for Democrats in the House and the Senate who vote for a lot more communist policy than just government unions acting against the interests of the American people, because that’s exactly what they do, and the Republicans have a total fail in fighting them.

I have no problem with any trade unions or private unions as long as associating is at the option of the worker. If it’s forced you can suck on the end of my Glock. AFSCME and the other government unions are thieves and liars perverting our government and stealing; they’re no different than a burglar in your house. AFSCME delenda est.

 

[ArmyJerry]

They will strike ?????? hahahhahah they will do a work stoppage, hahhahhahahah, it will be a tree falling in the woods, oh the irony. what happens everytime there is a government shut down, hell man I feel a bit freer when that happens.

Don't conflate federal government labor unions with other types of unions. They don't have the right to strike.

They can negotiate in good faith, or bring a law suit if necessary, but they don't have the big stick available to them that other labor unions regularly employ.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

You seem to hold the belief that union work pays no dividends either to the service itself, or to the private sector.

How is any of the above relevant? It isn’t, and addresses none of the inherent and systemic problems with government servants acting as if they worked for the private sector (i.e. it’s SOMEONE’S MONEY they’re bargaining for). That is, except your utterly false claims that AFSCME acts locally, and does not own bought and paid for Democrats in the House and the Senate who vote for a lot more communist policy than just government unions acting against the interests of the American people, because that’s exactly what they do, and the Republicans have a total fail in fighting them.

I have no problem with any trade unions or private unions as long as associating is at the option of the worker. If it’s forced you can suck on the end of my Glock. AFSCME and the other government unions are thieves and liars perverting our government and stealing; they’re no different than a burglar in your house. AFSCME delenda est.

1) Whether public or private, it is ALWAYS the public's money that is being bargained for.
2) My union publicly supported Donald Trump.
3) In my union, participation is voluntary.
4) My union does not make campaign contributions.
5) Persons in my agency took on average, a $400 a month PAY CUT last year.
6) My agency is roundly hated by both Repubs and Dems in Congress. (See #3)

 

[ArmyJerry]

hmmmmm all money is public money hmmm

You seem to hold the belief that union work pays no dividends either to the service itself, or to the private sector.


1) Whether public or private, it is ALWAYS the public's money that is being bargained for. You are an ignotrant fool.

 

[earthquake]

When I worked for the Feds, I wasn't in a union. Now I am a State employee and am required to be in a union. They take my money and "serve" me, I guess, but I have no voting rights unless I pay another 1.25% each paycheck.

They are now going around trying to get everyone to sign up because the state is trying to squash them I suppose.

They endorsed Hillary.....fuck 'em.

 

[Bender]

Unions are a complete joke. They HAVE TO justify their own existence, create discord, or else they are irrelevant. How can they “solve problems” if it would make themselves useless?

100% Proof they are a joke.

Answer me that.

 

[ArcticLight]

I'm a gov employee and while not required to join the union, it is there if we need it.

If one has a bad write up or personal issue with their boss, the union is there to protect you. Seen it happen.

If I'm told I need to work 20 hours a week OT I should get paid for it, the union makes sure of it.

Safety - they come into play, although the Gov has a safety office, they do work with the union.

THat said whoever claimed "above market wages" is totally wrong, let me explain.

I work 40 FAST paced hours a week and about 5-15 hours OT, so I'm spent when I get home.
THe same job in Seattle would pay me about $60 an hour with the responsibilities that I have.

Cushy retirement you say? I pay $150 a payday INTO that retirement, the gov matches a bit of it, and then I pay into my TSP, the gov matches 5% of that, no better than any other employer- CSRS is GONE - if you had that retirement you had a good thing, but we pay for ours like any other employee would pay for a pension, and POTUS signed an order jacking that amount UP that we pay.

Sick leave, it's a nice benny, and I have 240 hours of leave built up because who has time to take leave? I am BUSY...

But when you work with weapon systems, misson first, vacation last.

Don't whine about Gov employees unless you know what they do, I have contractors that sit on their ass and draw $40 an hour and I end up having to clean up their mess many times.

 

[MarinePMI]

Go down to SSCPAC/SPAWAR some time. Th epitome of useless government workers on "white collar welfare". Not all of them are bad, but I'd say roughly 60% should be fired. People wonder why contractors cost so much, and all I say is, where's that GFI that the government was supposed to provide us 3 months ago? I have to pay my engineers whether the government delivers the GFI or not, and at wages somewhat comparable to the tech sector. DFARS and the current Information Assurance policies ensure that the gubmint maintains it's "subway sandwich making line". "What? You need cheese? Sorry, that guy is on vacation right now, come back next week." Me: Can you put the cheese on the sandwich? Gov't Employee: "Oh, hell no! Not my job. Besides, that other guy might file a grievance with the union."

Hence contractors pad the shit out of proposed budgets to account for government bureaucracy. "Cause wherever you go, you have to kiss the ring, and stroke the egos before you can get a damned thing done.

Not saying you're that way Articlight, but let me tell you, you seem the exception, not the rule IME. And I've been doing this for 20 years now...

 

[ArcticLight]

You do have points but we have a different name for it "Checkbox security". And yeah the reporting on the checkboxes seems to be more important than doing real cybersecurity....

Me, on the other hand, I've been doing cybersecurity since the 1980's when I was cracking into unix and mainframe boxes that I ought not to have been.
And due to the nature of our work I take my job serious...

I have a beef with contracting companies nowdays, at least one in specific that raped me for 10 years and I did not know...

But, where I work there is a lot of pride, we have one person that moves at his own pace but the rest of us care about what we do.

ADCAP baby.... Gotta take care of that

 

[ArmyJerry]

Very little that the government does is a delegated responsibility in the Constitution, it should be shut down, and bam no more need for a union.

 

[RyanScott]

Public sector unions should be illegal.

One resisted my friends efforts to fire their member successfully for a year and then managed to keep his job for another year after he lit her on fire at work. The union participated in his “bitch deserved it” Defense. Fuck AFGE.

 

[RyanScott]

Well that was a thread killer.

 

[Bender]

Unions have to have discord. If it is always peaceful than they do not have a reason for existing.

 

[Redmanss]

Well that was a thread killer.

As it should be.

For those that want to know more about the story he's speaking of, read more here: https://justiceforkatieannblanchard...ubordinate-pleas-for-help-ignored-for-a-year/

Warning, you will become enraged while reading it. I am not responsible for what you do to your device. The man who lit her on fire was convicted and sentenced to 20 years, but the AFGE Local 738 President that protected him still has her job, best as I can tell from 2017 reports.

 

[RyanScott]

If anyone happens to be speaking to their Congressman anytime soon, make note to them please that 20 years is a pitiful maximum sentence for assault with intent to commit murder and to call Congressman Adam Smith about changing it.

 

[ArmyJerry]

your congress critter represents the deep state (DC), not you, he does not give one shit about you or your kind. Look at every action it takes, it is concentrating power in to the deep state to control your peasant ass, you are a fucking serf in their eyes, nothing more than a pack animal. They hate you and even worse they hold you in utter contempt you filthy Serf.

If anyone happens to be speaking to their Congressman anytime soon, make note to them please that 20 years is a pitiful maximum sentence for assault with intent to commit murder and to call Congressman Adam Smith about changing it.

 

[RyanScott]

How many of them have you met?

 

[ArmyJerry]

Enough to know my assessment above is an understatement of the situation, serf.

How many of them have you met?

 

[deersniper]

But they do have the right to do nothing and still get paid. They are impossible to fire so what is the incentive to actually work. If you have ever dealt with Govt. you know exactly what I am saying.

Pretty sure he IS govt
Most of the statists here are .gov "workers"

 

[Fig]

Statist is a bit harsh isn't it? When I think of a statist I think of a straight up authoritarian or totalitarian not some worker who knows which side of his bread is buttered. Therein lies the problem.
http://freebeacon.com/issues/study-government-workers-make-78-percent-more-than-private-sector/
This is TOTALLY OUT OF CONTROL. You couldn't help but have a Deep State when everything is so completely out of whack, and it continues to go in the wrong direction. Of course they want to fight to keep what they have and get more, that's human nature. It's also human nature to want to rig the system so they get what they want. Trump is the one who signed a massive Omnibus that grows the Federal Government even more. It is now Leviathan. I don't believe it can be peacefully scaled back anymore. It is so large, and they steal so much wealth from the people it almost demands violence.

 

[RyanScott]

Enough to know my assessment above is an understatement of the situation, serf.

That hasn’t been my experience of the majority I’ve met, particularly Republicans.

 

[Rthur]

I haven't been in a union but have family/friends that are/have been.
It would seem to me that the free market would decide this if truly free.
Dead weight shouldn't last on either side of this game.

R

 

[QuickNDirty]

But when you work with weapon systems, misson first, vacation last.

If you can honestly tell me you get paid to pentest and blow shit up, you just might be my favorite person.

 

[MarinePMI]

If you can honestly tell me you get paid to pentest and blow shit up, you just might be my favorite person.

I'm almost positive that many of us here (at some point in their job/career) do exactly that. As the saying goes, "Everyone likes to see the conclusion of a demonstration with someone blowing shit up.".

 

[Redmanss]

I thought getting paid to pentest was called "gigolo". Huh...

 

[QuickNDirty]

I'm almost positive that many of us here (at some point in their job/career) do exactly that. As the saying goes, "Everyone likes to see the conclusion of a demonstration with someone blowing shit up.".

What I got was a bit different... Security work AND weapons systems? At the same time? I mean, the jollies of rooting a missle and flipping the right bits to make it bang are fucking neverending. Getting paid to do that just makes it more better.

It's one thing to set off a couple pounds of C4, another to impregnate a system for fun and/or profit, but doing both at the same time... That's gotta be at least 5000x more awesome than sex.

 

[MarinePMI]

I guess it'd be more like "Connex Box Gigolo"...with a small target painted on the side/top....and penetration insertion starting at angels 15...

 

[MarinePMI]

What I got was a bit different... Security work AND weapons systems? At the same time? I mean, the jollies of rooting a missle and flipping the right bits to make it bang are fucking neverending. Getting paid to do that just makes it more better.

It's one thing to set off a couple pounds of C4, another to impregnate a system for fun and/or profit, but doing both at the same time... That's gotta be at least 5000x more awesome than sex.

Bingo. But it is anti-climatic to a large extent. Years of work, that is over in a short flight time and explosion. Of course, it's video taped, so you can watch it over, and over, and over again. Still, like you said, it's pretty cool putting work into something, and then see the silhouette of the missile's profile slice through a connex box just before detonation. Then again, Yuma, China lake and San Clemente can be damned hot (seems testing always seems to occur in the middle of frickin' summer).

 

[MarinePMI]

Here's a video on a system (I did not work on this one) that's pretty cool and open source....

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[QuickNDirty]

Well that's cool as hell.

 

[MarinePMI]

So easy, even a caveman can use it....

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[QuickNDirty]

Hah, it'd probably be pretty fun to drive the target truck, too.

What's the project name for that? I wanna take a look at the laser tracking code.

 

[ArmyJerry]

you are easily fooled, useful idiots, there are lots of them. Explain just two differences between the republicans and democrats, just two.

That hasn’t been my experience of the majority I’ve met, particularly Republicans.

 

[ArmyJerry]

Shooting a Vulcan is better than sex, 3k rpm of HEI , empty a 1100 round drum under 30 seconds at night is something to behold.

 

[QuickNDirty]

Shooting a Vulcan is better than sex, 3k rpm of HEI , empty a 1100 round drum under 30 seconds at night is something to behold.

Yeah, that's cool and all, but gittin' all up in the giggly bits of something you're not supposed to be in, and wreaking absolute friggin' havoc on it to the tune of a shockwave running somewhere north of 26k feet per second... Second place to that is a long ways away.

 

[RyanScott]

you are easily fooled, useful idiots, there are lots of them. Explain just two differences between the republicans and democrats, just two.

Your Congressman doesn’t personally call you back?

You’re doing it wrong.

 

[Schroedernd]

They will strike ?????? hahahhahah they will do a work stoppage, hahhahhahahah, it will be a tree falling in the woods, oh the irony. what happens everytime there is a government shut down, hell man I feel a bit freer when that happens.

Everytime there is a gov’t shutdown I am STILL REQUIRED TO SHOW UP WITHOUT PAY. Tell me of anyone else that has to show up to work with no pay. Oh, and I have put 25+ pedophiles behind bars the last 3 years. Can I RELEASE THEM ON YOUR STREET FOR FUN since you think I am worthless?! Oh, BTW, most federal L.E are not part of a union. We have to pay for our own liability insurance, etc. BTW since you are “army” I have 18 years in the service currently between active and guard time with multiple deployments. You are a clueless tin foil hat man with too much time on the Internetz.