Rifle Scopes Guns and Ammo: RIP

[nicholst55]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

I quit buying, and reading, gun rags when I realized that they were endlessly repeating the same garbage. Look at the covers of 90% of them; every month they feature either a custom 1911 or a $2,500 AR-15. Puleeeeze! Don't the manufacturers make anything else?

 

[david777]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PeteCamp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't want to drag us off topic but...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pastor</span>, politician, journalist, what have you - all are basically glorified salesmen either shilling or protecting a paycheck...and little else really.</div></div>
Change that to (some) TV preachers, and I'll go along with you. I put in 14 days straight of 24 hour a day on call work (every 6 weeks) for our PD as a Chaplain and receive no salary - not a dime because no one wants to challenge the ACLU. I preach every Sunday at a small church, whose congregation cannot afford anyone even part-time, for car expense money - no salary. That requires about 10-12 hours of preparation per hour in the pulpit. I have two bachelor's and a master's degree. The vast majority of pastors receive way less money than you might think and put up with way more garbage than anyone can imagine. I put in 25 years full-time in a church and my wife and I survive now on her salary. (ER Nurse) I don't try to "sell" anything. I try to warn people that the bridge ahead is out and it is a long drop into a very bad place. This isn't a sob story. I have invested my life in other people because of my beliefs. And I'm just one of countless thousands. Please don't lump us with the chowderheads in Washington.

Carry on gentlemen. </div></div>

Well said, and accurate from my observations.

 

[Mag 300]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

Agreed, compare to Hyundai!!!!!
quote=Rancid Coolaid]Craig Boddington reviews the Countersniper 10-40X in this month's new Guns and Ammo. He compares it to "other" tactical scopes and says it competes well. He failed to mention whether he is comparing to Barska or BSA or Nightforce.

I've been a G&A subscriber for awhile, now I'm done. Their love for Leupold is understandable, given Leupold's constant advertising, but Countersniper?

They are now, reservedly, promoting pure shit - and Countersniper has not ad in the mag.

As a fellow Marine, I am surprised to see Boddington put his reputation and name behind something so obviously geared toward the mall ninja and airsoft crowd.

The things they say are almost as amusing as the things they don't.

It's good for a chuckle, and maybe starting a camp fire, or swatting at flies, but G&A is dead to me. [/quote]

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kyle1974</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ssgp2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I have come to believe that for some shooters, accuracy means that the firing pin is hitting the primer... </div></div>

I was shooting a couple weekends ago, and there was a guy and his wife, sighting in their rifles... they would shoot three or four times, jack with the scope, shoot once, jack with it some more...

I looked at their targets, and there was no grouping... shit all over the place.

he finally hit a bullseye and told his wife "finally, that should do it now"

LMAO.... I would imagine people that shoot like that would be perfectly happy with one of these scopes. </div></div>

Try that with 40-50 shooters at a deer rifle sight in. We tell 'em we want them to start @ the 25 if they don't know where the rifle is hitting. "But I want to be zeroed at 100", they say. "We will, we just need to know where your at on paper first." Then I get the guy who can't consistently hit paper @ 200 wants to go to 300. Just to see where it hits. ...all from a bench. Some days it's like shooting with fourth graders.

But, I'll hear quotes all day long about this new round and that new round he read about in a magazine. I understand that new products and marketing are what keeps shooting alive and new people interested in it. But, it would sure do me some good to get a magazine that I felt better served the entire shooting and hunting worlds. Granted some of the products they push are not what some of us would buy. They work. But, to tout them like you can buy this $239.95 scope and it does everything those $1500 scopes do, isn't right. If they compared apples to apples then we'd be more diligent readers.

 

[Doc1911]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

When I purchased magazines, I NEVER saw a bad review of a weapon in them. Yet, some of the stuff they cover is JUNK. This is one reason I enjoy forums. If one can get past some of the JUNK comments there - there are some people on them that normally have true experience with an actual off the shelf weapon (not one that had an additional day or two of gunsmithing done to it for a review - or the 6 weapons they sent back and forth to finally get a good one - my gunsmith use to write some of the articles and has some stories ...). After reading enough posts you get to trust some shooters and what they have to say.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ssgp2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertfox01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I remember a article awhile back, think it was in G$A about a Patrol Carbine (will leave the manufacturers name out). Author raves about it. get to the test firing and the Author is only getting 2 and 3 inch groups with match ammo........at 50 yards. now this rifle is market as a Police patrol rifle!!! I am sorry, it is not difficult to build a AR that can shoot 2 or 3 inch groups and smaller at 100 yards. but to praise the accuracy of this rifle really just urked me. </div></div>

I have come to believe that for some shooters, accuracy means that the firing pin is hitting the primer... </div></div>

Was at my home range a couple of weekends ago and with us now in full hunting season there are a lot of non typical faces there. As I was running through the Dot drill and pissing myself off with 3/5 to 5/5 hits I scanned over to the next target at the same distance. He was shooting the 10 to 12 inch dia. Shoot-n-see and it looked like it had been hit with a shotgun (and not a single one in the 9-10-or X). The bottom line the relevancy. If a shooter is only worried about an ELK then what he was doing is acceptable. If I am practicing for a comp then shooting 1 MOA (consistently) will keep me in the running. If I am shooting F-Class I better be drilling little tiny bug holes and grouping them there at distance.
Bottom line is we need more shooters and there are going to be more “mall ninjas” than practical tactical. If they shoot encourage them. If they shoot MOE (minute of elk) help them, if they shoot moa commend them, if they shoot MOGA (Minute of Gnat’s Ass) they should be teaching….
Just my thoughts I will now step off my soap box and find Pistol Pete’s latest asinine post about a .499…..

 

[Arch]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

Good points. I mostly prefer my Larue target when target shooting. The little man goes down when I hit him. It prepares me for what I like to do, which is hunt.

 

[BIGGLEE0351]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rancid Coolaid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Craig Boddington reviews the Countersniper 10-40X in this month's new Guns and Ammo. He compares it to "other" tactical scopes and says it competes well. He failed to mention whether he is comparing to Barska or BSA or Nightforce.

I've been a G&A subscriber for awhile, now I'm done. Their love for Leupold is understandable, given Leupold's constant advertising, but Countersniper?

They are now, reservedly, promoting pure shit - and Countersniper has not ad in the mag.

As a fellow Marine, I am surprised to see Boddington put his reputation and name behind something so obviously geared toward the mall ninja and airsoft crowd.

The things they say are almost as amusing as the things they don't.

It's good for a chuckle, and maybe starting a camp fire, or swatting at flies, but G&A is dead to me. </div></div>
Its funny because there are many gun mags out there.When I mentioned I was reading G&A to my 'smith,he just laughed.I guess I know why now.

 

[shankster..]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

<span style="font-weight: bold">sandwarrior: "Try that with 40-50 shooters at a deer rifle sight in. We tell 'em we want them to start @ the 25 if they don't know where the rifle is hitting. "But I want to be zeroed at 100", they say. "We will, we just need to know where your at on paper first." Then I get the guy who can't consistently hit paper @ 200 wants to go to 300. Just to see where it hits. ...all from a bench. Some days it's like shooting with fourth graders.</span>"

LMAO!!! sandwarrior, you have completely identified the rifle ranges around here from the months of September and October. It would be comical if it wasn't so sad. I actually get a kick out of watching all of the armchair hunters sighting in the rifles they have had for years and handle for 2 months of each year. They will burn through ammo and their targets look like they were hit with a shotgun. Eventually, they get frustrated and say something to save some face and leave. On of the biggest things is guys get more powerful cartrdges and tey flinch and can;t handle the recoil benching much less standing. Crazy.

I know a guy that was a "tunnel rat Marine in 'Nam" and was also on the K-2 world ski team eventhough he weighs 350 lbs. and can't tie his shoes. We went shooting with his expensive hunting rifle. He couldn't hit the paper consistently at 100 yards. <span style="font-weight: bold">His excuse" I am a much better shot when the target is moving" </span> BTW, we move over to the pistol range, He didn't know how to operate my 1911.

He supposedly used to be a scratch golfer but now can't break 115.

 

[Ratbert]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">sandwarrior: "Try that with 40-50 shooters at a deer rifle sight in. We tell 'em we want them to start @ the 25 if they don't know where the rifle is hitting. "But I want to be zeroed at 100", they say. "We will, we just need to know where your at on paper first." Then I get the guy who can't consistently hit paper @ 200 wants to go to 300. Just to see where it hits. ...all from a bench. Some days it's like shooting with fourth graders.</span>"

LMAO!!! sandwarrior, you have completely identified the rifle ranges around here from the months of September and October. It would be comical if it wasn't so sad. I actually get a kick out of watching all of the armchair hunters sighting in the rifles they have had for years and handle for 2 months of each year. They will burn through ammo and their targets look like they were hit with a shotgun. Eventually, they get frustrated and say something to save some face and leave. On of the biggest things is guys get more powerful cartrdges and tey flinch and can;t handle the recoil benching much less standing. Crazy.

I know a guy that was a "tunnel rat Marine in 'Nam" and was also on the K-2 world ski team eventhough he weighs 350 lbs. and can't tie his shoes. We went shooting with his expensive hunting rifle. He couldn't hit the paper consistently at 100 yards. <span style="font-weight: bold">His excuse" I am a much better shot when the target is moving" </span> BTW, we move over to the pistol range, He didn't know how to operate my 1911.

He supposedly used to be a scratch golfer but now can't break 115.

</div></div>

To be fair, things were probably a lot easier before that fat guy ate him.

 

[PeteCamp]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To be fair, things were probably a lot easier before that fat guy ate him. </div></div>
Now, now guys....be kind. Just wait 'till you're 44 years past your war!

 

[Ratbert]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> He couldn't hit the paper consistently at 100 yards. <span style="font-weight: bold">His excuse" I am a much better shot when the target is moving" </span>
</div></div>

Tell him to pretend the targets are moving towards him.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">sandwarrior: "Try that with 40-50 shooters at a deer rifle sight in. We tell 'em we want them to start @ the 25 if they don't know where the rifle is hitting. "But I want to be zeroed at 100", they say. "We will, we just need to know where your at on paper first." Then I get the guy who can't consistently hit paper @ 200 wants to go to 300. Just to see where it hits. ...all from a bench. Some days it's like shooting with fourth graders.</span>"

LMAO!!! sandwarrior, you have completely identified the rifle ranges around here from the months of September and October. It would be comical if it wasn't so sad. I actually get a kick out of watching all of the armchair hunters sighting in the rifles they have had for years and handle for 2 months of each year. They will burn through ammo and their targets look like they were hit with a shotgun. Eventually, they get frustrated and say something to save some face and leave. On of the biggest things is guys get more powerful cartrdges and tey flinch and can;t handle the recoil benching much less standing. Crazy.

I know a guy that was a "tunnel rat Marine in 'Nam" and was also on the K-2 world ski team eventhough he weighs 350 lbs. and can't tie his shoes. We went shooting with his expensive hunting rifle. He couldn't hit the paper consistently at 100 yards. <span style="font-weight: bold">His excuse" I am a much better shot when the target is moving" </span> BTW, we move over to the pistol range, He didn't know how to operate my 1911.

He supposedly used to be a scratch golfer but now can't break 115.

</div></div>

To be fair...or at least a little bit equal... You get some people who do take to a little one-on-one education out on the range during those sight-ins. We had a kid and his younger brother who were out there with new Rem 700's in 30-06. The two kids didn't weigh 180 lbs. together. The older one, Jake, started shooting. His dad just looked around and figured out everyone was shooting off bags off the bench and he got him set up. But no follow through. The first shot just about had that scope coming back through the kids forehead. Missed it by less than an inch. I watched a second time as that scope took a swing at him. I couldn't watch anymore. So I got up there(interjected), found what he was shooting. Got him positioned a lot better. And then had him dry fire a few times. (had to explain about centerfire/rimfire and the why's). And when he started shooting again we got him adjusted in, shooting a 5 shot 2.5" group @ 200. The younger brother, who had bigtime no. 2 syndrome, had everything set up just the way the brother did. Of course he already knew it. That made me laugh. I said said why didn't you tell Jake? "I did," he said, "He don't listen to me anyhow". I laughed again. He was close but didn't quite bring it in like his brother. But it was certainly fun to watch the kids take off with how to shoot better than dad saying "here ya go" One of the slow days we had a guy whose scope took a shit on him. Since I shot his rifle a few times and it wouldn't go where we thought it would, in spite of my best efforts, I offered for him to shoot my rifle that day. It was zeroed for 300 and I got hm set up and he fired a 5 shot 4" group at 300. He knew at that point his shooting was on the right track. I put him on a known rifle and his confidence in himself was the difference. Good things to watch for in the midst of the three ring circus of deer rifle sight-ins.

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

G&A serves an audience, it's just not this one. I'm not going to bash a bunch of people who strongly support our Second Amendment rights, make their living in the industry, and mainstream gun ownership, hunting, target shooting, and related activities.

The last issue described how G&A moved to IL from CA, where the anti-gun politics became too much for a pro-gun magazine. I'm sympathetic because we bought a house in NV a year ago to have a place to shoot and enjoy the outdoors without the CA political hysteria and constant legislative threats to ban guns and ammo (pun intended). It's not my mag, but they are my kind of people.

 

[Fritz24]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PeteCamp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't want to drag us off topic but...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pastor</span>, politician, journalist, what have you - all are basically glorified salesmen either shilling or protecting a paycheck...and little else really.</div></div>
Change that to (some) TV preachers, and I'll go along with you. I put in 14 days straight of 24 hour a day on call work (every 6 weeks) for our PD as a Chaplain and receive no salary - not a dime because no one wants to challenge the ACLU. I preach every Sunday at a small church, whose congregation cannot afford anyone even part-time, for car expense money - no salary. That requires about 10-12 hours of preparation per hour in the pulpit. I have two bachelor's and a master's degree. The vast majority of pastors receive way less money than you might think and put up with way more garbage than anyone can imagine. I put in 25 years full-time in a church and my wife and I survive now on her salary. (ER Nurse) I don't try to "sell" anything. I try to warn people that the bridge ahead is out and it is a long drop into a very bad place. This isn't a sob story. I have invested my life in other people because of my beliefs. And I'm just one of countless thousands. Please don't lump us with the chowderheads in Washington.

Carry on gentlemen. </div></div>

Oh totally! The big-money Holy Roller loudmouth is exactly who I had in mind, not honest ministers who do what they do for more noble reasons.

 

[shankster..]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> He couldn't hit the paper consistently at 100 yards. <span style="font-weight: bold">His excuse" I am a much better shot when the target is moving" </span>
</div></div>

Tell him to pretend the targets are moving towards him. </div></div>

WAY TOO FUNNY!! Well played sir. Cheers.

 

[Travis S]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

I gave up on most mags a long while ago. Tired of the same. Latest greatest ar's and 1911's on the cover. Don't even pick them up to look at while I'm grocery shopping. Still get shotgun news and small arms review though. Most of the shooting shows are a joke too. Really annoyed by one that looked like it had promise by reviewing sai's m1a's. Showed a 5min snippet of them shooting an m-25 and a supermatch at larues. Nothing about the more affordable loaded, standard socom or scout. Hell they only showed leatham spotting with his m-21 for fortier who was shooting the m-25. Bummer

 

[PistonPete]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

G&A is only good for emergency toilet paper and maybe fire starting material, way back to whenever.., 1962ad i bought issue #1, there were good writers like Neal Knox, Elmer Keith, Charlie Askins, Skeeter Skelton, Jack O'Connor, Bill Jordan, Dean Speir, Jeff Cooper, Bob Milek, Jim Carmichael, Dean Grennell, i quit subscribing around 1975ad.

BTW.., there is nothing wrong with Counter Sniper scopes, i have 6 of them and they perform as expected, magnify, clarify and ....., well you figger out the rest OK ?

 

[Fritz24]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Piston Pete</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> G&A is only good for emergency toilet paper and maybe fire starting material, way back to whenever.., 1962ad i bought issue #1, there were good writers like Neal Knox, Elmer Keith, Charlie Askins, Skeeter Skelton, Jack O'Connor, Bill Jordan, Dean Speir, Jeff Cooper, Bob Milek, Jim Carmichael, Dean Grennell, i quit subscribing around 1975ad.

BTW.., there is nothing wrong with Counter Sniper scopes, i have 6 of them and they perform as expected, magnify, clarify and ....., well you figger out the rest OK ? </div></div>

And so it begins afresh...

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Piston Pete</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> G&A is only good for emergency toilet paper and maybe fire starting material, way back to whenever.., 1962ad i bought issue #1, there were good writers like Neal Knox, Elmer Keith, Charlie Askins, Skeeter Skelton, Jack O'Connor, Bill Jordan, Dean Speir, Jeff Cooper, Bob Milek, Jim Carmichael, Dean Grennell, i quit subscribing around 1975ad.

BTW.., there is nothing wrong with Counter Sniper scopes, i have 6 of them and they perform as expected, magnify, clarify and ....., well you figger out the rest OK ? </div></div>


We all knew it was coming.

As I said previously, maybe they accidentally made 7 decent optics, one went to Boddington and 6 went to Pete; they damn sure made a ton of piss-poor optics that went to everyone else, but maybe these 2 got real lucky.

 

[Clark]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

Jan Libourel used to write for Guns and Ammo.
When he wrote that the CZ52 was stronger than the Tokarev, I wrote him that my calculations and experiments did not support that, and that I was notifying the load books that erroneously report or imply that notion.
Dr. Jan wrote back that he was just writing what HE he read. That was gracious of him.
But don't expect some chutzpenik, like Ayoob, to admit when HE'S wrong.

I think the internet forums, like this one, are ahead of the gun rags.
If one submits for publication to Precision Shooting, the first thing they ask is, "Has it been on the internet already?"
In this thread I can see Greg and Chris, that I can remember from both their quality postings on internet forums more than 10 years ago. Greg was on a Sniper list and Chris was at shooter's forum.

What does it all mean?
If you are reading and contributing to this forum, you are too advanced for Guns and Ammo.

 

[badkarma1985]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

I cant remember the last time I read a negative article on a gun or gun related item. To me its just paid advertising instead of actually testing the product they are writing about and giving the pros and cons.

 

[Clark]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

I wrote a poem:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Ode to gun magazines

Those that write the gun rag pages
Make it up, but pose as sages
Those who think that it's all true
Pay the bills to print more poo

Even worse are the reviews
Pay for adds is pay'n dues
If per chance you didn't pay
It ain't so good what we will say</div></div>

 

[BWYoda]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

Try American Rifleman for gun and equipment reviews. The greatest work of fiction since vows of fidelity were introduced into the French marriage service!

 

[PistonPete]

Re: Guns and Ammo: RIP

Try American Rifleman for gun and equipment reviews. The greatest work of gun fiction ever printed.., what a waste of good trees, if they want to print this crap they should use recycled toilet paper