Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

Can someone check this math,please? Before I go plugging it into a spreadsheet? It's a .22LR handload.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Code:</div><div class="ubbcode-body ubbcode-pre" ><pre>
Impact = 0.517490s

Shot start = 0.060320s

T(bullet unadjusted) = 0.45717s

M = 1133fps (75 deg F)

D = 150ft

T(bullet) = T(total) - T(sound)

T(sound) = 150ft/1133s = 0.13239s

T(bullet) = 0.45717s - 0.13239s

T(bullet) = 0.32478s

V(bullet) = d/T(bullet) = 150ft/0.32478s = 461.85fps(avg)

43.5fps avg loss with CCI bullet, avg of muzzle velocity and velocity at 150ft

MV = 505.35fps
</pre></div></div>

My next purchase was going to be a chronograph, then I got laid off thanks to Indiana deciding folks didn't need as much health care as they'd been getting. 'Nuther subject though.

Any help?

Thanks!

Josh

 

[bohem]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

When you say "handload" do you mean you plugged the data into the calculator manually or actually loaded the round?

I've had pretty good results using a G1 BC = 0.145-0.150 (usually 0.148) for the 36-40gr bullets. MV's over my chrono varied wildly with bulk ammo, but averaged about 1280fps +/- 50fps.

 

[Josh Smith]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

Hello,

I actually loaded the round and timed it using acoustics.

Thanks,

Josh

 

[JMC]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

Can you please explain how you handload a 22lr? I'm not denying it can be done I'm just not sure how or that it would be worth the effort.

JMC

 

[J-Hon]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

+1

You a BR guy? I'd definitely be down to hearing/seeing more about your setup.

As for values, I am not 100% sure what I am looking at there. But as far as MV/BC goes, I usually use similar values to what was stated above.

 

[jeffm]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

Can someone please tell me what this guy is talking about?

 

[vman]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

You lost me at math

 

[Josh Smith]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you please explain how you handload a 22lr? I'm not denying it can be done I'm just not sure how or that it would be worth the effort.

JMC </div></div>

Hello,

First you pull a few bullets from Blazers, keeping them intact. Use a tool like Paco's Accurizer or D Rock's resizer to reshape any damage on the heel.

Put about 0.5gn of powder into one of the empty cases.

Seat the bullet using the same tool you used to reshape the bullet. It will go in and stay. Crimps only came about later, with the advent of repeating arms in .22 rimfire. I haven't had problems with no crimp.

Fire it.

If I did the math right, average velocity is about 462fps with a muzzle velocity of around 500fps.

The purpose behind this is to make heavy CB caps. The 40gn bullet works much better than the 29gn bullet of the average CB cap for some critters I have to quietly eliminate out here in this part of the country.

My first choice was going to be Aguila 60gn SSS, but I was told that my barrel likely won't stabilize them. I can't buy any locally as nobody carries them, and I really don't want to order them not knowing whether they'll work (shipping charges would double the price for a sample order).

Thanks,

Josh

 

[Josh Smith]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can someone please tell me what this guy is talking about? </div></div>

Which part?

Josh

 

[Guest]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

My Grandfather taught me how to reload 22lr ammo in the 50's. We made our own priming mixture, bullets, Powder, ect. Trust me don't try to push the bullet with just priming mixture alone.

We also used spent 22 lr cases for bullet jackets on a .222 we used for longer shots on my uncles farm between Francesville and Winamac Indiana. The 22lr was used in many a wooded area around Michigan City where I grew up. The freezer always had deer, an pot meat from that little H&R 22 which I still have to this day.

This country was built w/o store bought, and those that know the old ways are leaving in large numbers. It's nice to see someone thinking out of the box, because most live well with in it's walls anymore.

 

[jeffm]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

I am afraid that you may be to smart for the rest of us. What do you mean "timed it using acoustics"? Thanks

Jeff

 

[Josh Smith]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What do you mean "timed it using acoustics"? Thanks

Jeff
</div></div>

Distance/Time = average speed.

For example, Miles/Hour.

In this case, it's Feet/Second.

Knowing the distance (50 yards or 150ft) we just need to know how many seconds it takes to traverse that distance.

Sooo... out comes the laptop, equipped with a microphone, and a visual acoustics analyzing program thingy, which is free and called Audacity.

Shoot the shot, and record the sound of the fired shot and impact.

Subtract the speed of sound that day from that number, because, well, the sound had to have time to get back to you, and could mess up the calculations. So gotta take it out of the equation.

So the bullet traversed 150ft in 0.32478s.

Write out 150/0.32478 .

Need to take the 0.32478 to 1s because we're doing FPS.

So X/1 = 150/0.32478 , solve for x.

1/0.32478 = 3.07901

150*3.07901 = 461.8515 feet. This was traversed in 1 second.

Round to 462fps. That's the average.

Then take the average velocity loss from a few manufacturers, subsonic from muzzle to 50 yards, and add that for rough muzzle velocity:

462fps + 88fps = <span style="font-weight: bold">550</span>

And there's where I messed up. The averages of velocity loss at 50 yards. Arghhhh!

Thanks!

Josh

 

[jeffm]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

That makes sence. It would be good to compare your results aginst a chronagraph.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

Priming mixture and technique?

Pistol powder?

Greg

 

[Guest]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Priming mixture and technique?

Pistol powder?

Greg </div></div>


If your asking me, we took and removed the firing pin indent with a hand made tool. After sand blasting the inside of the case to remove the crud, you inserted the fired case from the bottom and the tool went down inside and you'ed pry against the lip on the fixture and remove the indent. Later we just loaded the mag where the firing pin struck at 90* then after 4 times we would work the case.

Installing the priming mixture was easy, 1/4" drill in another simple tool we made to hold an spin the case, 3 drops of mixture later and the rim was primed.

I will not post how to make the mixture we used, as it can be used as a starter/booster explosive, and because it is so impact sensitive, that mixture can be used as a thrown impact fuse alone.

A how to for a straight, priming mixture is out there for anyone doing a search.

As to the powder we used Bullseye pistol powder, the charge size was based on bullet weight, a full case charge was used for a 32gr bullet, but by increasing the priming mixture you could cut the powder charge down a lot if you needed or wanted the case space for a heavier bullet.
The loading tools less Lymans casting molds, were made on an old South Bend 10x36 lathe. No loading press were required, everything was done with hand tools. IIRC we could load a box of 50 for 5 cents, when cheap store bought was running 50-65 cents per. The table meat tasted the same, and we could not tell if it was shot by store bought or hand loads.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

hmmm... can it only be done casting your own bullets, or is one able to use regular .22 cal heads?

in other words, with the heeled bullet of .22lr, can a case be loaded and shot consistantly with reg. .22 cal heads? i think nonheeled is done with .22mag, can it be done with .22lr?

any rule of thumb on how long a box of 50 takes?

at the beginning of the thread i thought "why?" but now am getting intrigued.

 

[Guest]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

The bullets we cast were heeled .222-.223 depending mold temp an lead mixture. If you count all the steps I'd guess two of us could do a box in about 45 minutes to an hour. One box would put about 2-3 weeks worth of pot meat on the table. Sometimes when we took a deer, we'd keep half and swap the other 1/2 for a rear hog quarter. No wild hogs there back then, that we knew of.

Most all loading took place in the worst days of winter where other than running the trap lines, you found something inside to do, rather than working in knee deep snow at 0* or worst. Had to do that at times, but we were some what fast learners.

Time was something we had plenty of, and the old saying, Necessity is the mother of invention, held very true with us.

 

[Broncovan]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

That is just too cool. The ingenuity used to develop that kind of process has always amazed me.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

Gave up looking after a half hour. The methods I located either consisted of materials I have no access to, or appeared hokey enough to be downright lethal to the user. I'll have to look some more later.

 

[Guest]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

Everything you need is out there, this popped up for a shotgun priming mix.
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6544363/description.html

Everything can be had from Fisher Scientific, or your local pharmacy under different names

Then again there is another mixture that is sold in a different wrap everyday at many County an State fairs, that only require a simple change to work as well.

Think out of the box, remember, priming mix is not effected by water once it dries out.

 

[JMC]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

It seems doable but I'm not ready to do it myself is all. What kind of accuracy are you getting with the reloaded stuff as compared to factory ammo?

 

[Josh Smith]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seems doable but I'm not ready to do it myself is all. What kind of accuracy are you getting with the reloaded stuff as compared to factory ammo? </div></div>

Hello,

I've not shot groups, but in taking chipmunks which love to eat my home, I've notice no <span style="font-style: italic">practical</span> difference.

And the 40gn slug moving that slowly really flattens 'em. Increased dwell time, ya' know...

Josh

 

[JMC]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

I'd really like to see some pictures of your loading process if you can get some.
JMC

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

The more I think about the priming angle, the less I feel like doing it and the high energy chemistry involved. I'll let somebody else do the 'Flaming Monkey' gag.

 

[flounderv2]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

I like the fact that the ability exists and would like to learn how to accomplish it for knowledge purposes only but I would think that making your own priming mixture could be considered manufacture of explosives by the ATF especially if its a volatile as you say.

I dont believe I want to play in that arena.

 

[bohem]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flounderv2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the fact that the ability exists and would like to learn how to accomplish it for knowledge purposes only but I would think that making your own priming mixture could be considered manufacture of explosives by the ATF especially if its a volatile as you say.

I dont believe I want to play in that arena. </div></div>

I'm not sure what priming compound he's using but it's very easy to make and very stable in liquid form, less so in solid form (as we know). I made some of it in HS chemistry class for fun and it worked very well.

For a scenario where we can't get components to load ammo with my concern is not brass, primers, or bullets... it's making smokeless powder. I did some playing with it and I've successfully made a 44mag work with cast bullets and nitrocellulose but it sure doesn't have the snot a case full of H110 does.

 

[savage110]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math

I reloaded some .22, gonna test velocities soon enough. I pulled the bullets from blazers, took out the powder and put in smaill amounts of IMR4064 (6,8, and 10 granules to see the velocitys Ill get, it sure would be alot cheaper then buying SS CCi's!
Need a new barrel, then Ill be testing this out.

 

[upjeeper]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Grandfather taught me how to reload 22lr ammo in the 50's. We made our own priming mixture, bullets, Powder, ect. Trust me don't try to push the bullet with just priming mixture alone.

We also used spent 22 lr cases for bullet jackets on a .222 we used for longer shots on my uncles farm between Francesville and Winamac Indiana. The 22lr was used in many a wooded area around Michigan City where I grew up. The freezer always had deer, an pot meat from that little H&R 22 which I still have to this day.

This country was built w/o store bought, and those that know the old ways are leaving in large numbers. It's nice to see someone thinking out of the box, because most live well with in it's walls anymore. </div></div>


did you swage the .22lr empties then?

 

[Guest]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

If your talking about the 22 lr cases being made into jackets yes, we used a 20 ton bottle jack and box steel that was 4x4x3/8". The home made frame had I beams for reinforcement top and bottom, The swagging dies were made on the old 10X36 South Bend.

For just reloading the next 22lr rd we used a ground tapered punch to open up the mouth so as not to shave lead, the seating die made a tight case to bullet fit.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

I don't think IMR4064 will get you to Jolliesville. <span style="font-style: italic">Waaayyyy</span> slower than regular .22LR pwoders. I'd suggest a pistol/shotgun powder.

 

[savage110]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think IMR4064 will get you to Jolliesville. <span style="font-style: italic">Waaayyyy</span> slower than regular .22LR pwoders. I'd suggest a pistol/shotgun powder. </div></div> all I have on hand so I'm going to give it a shot

 

[flounderv2]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math

Im still interested in hearing about the priming mixture.

 

[dareposte]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Josh Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What do you mean "timed it using acoustics"? Thanks

Jeff
</div></div>

Distance/Time = average speed.

For example, Miles/Hour.

In this case, it's Feet/Second.

Knowing the distance (50 yards or 150ft) we just need to know how many seconds it takes to traverse that distance.

Sooo... out comes the laptop, equipped with a microphone, and a visual acoustics analyzing program thingy, which is free and called Audacity.

Shoot the shot, and record the sound of the fired shot and impact.

Subtract the speed of sound that day from that number, because, well, the sound had to have time to get back to you, and could mess up the calculations. So gotta take it out of the equation.

So the bullet traversed 150ft in 0.32478s.

Write out 150/0.32478 .

Need to take the 0.32478 to 1s because we're doing FPS.

So X/1 = 150/0.32478 , solve for x.

1/0.32478 = 3.07901

150*3.07901 = 461.8515 feet. This was traversed in 1 second.

Round to 462fps. That's the average.

Then take the average velocity loss from a few manufacturers, subsonic from muzzle to 50 yards, and add that for rough muzzle velocity:

462fps + 88fps = <span style="font-weight: bold">550</span>

And there's where I messed up. The averages of velocity loss at 50 yards. Arghhhh!

</div></div>

It might be more accurate to try an iterative solution using a solving application, like JBM or www.dop3.com. You know the TOF fairly precisely so it shouldn't be hard to figure out a good estimate of the MV if you know the ballistics of the round.

 

[Rarebreed93]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math

He had links posted at another site and they removed his links.
He said "PM me and I'll give you the info"
I know some guy's from northern Indiana and would not doubt one bit that he is reloading his .22's

 

[Josh Smith]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rarebreed93</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He had links posted at another site and they removed his links.
He said "PM me and I'll give you the info"
I know some guy's from northern Indiana and would not doubt one bit that he is reloading his .22's </div></div>

Passing misinformation are we?

<span style="font-style: italic">I</span> removed the link. Not the mods.

It's odd that the two dedicated rimfire boards on which this is posted - folks who live and breathe rimfire - have not said word one about it being any more dangerous than a lot of other things we do as shooters.

Now, please stop telling stories. Or if you do, at least get them right. Damn.

Josh

 

[Josh Smith]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flounderv2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im still interested in hearing about the priming mixture. </div></div>

Hello,

<span style="font-style: italic">Hand</span>loads, not <span style="font-style: italic">re</span>loads.

Priming mixtures can be done, but IMO you'd have to be brain-damaged to try it on more than a trial basis, to make sure you know how in case you should ever need to.

The way it used to be done was relatively safe. Now, not so much.

Use primed cases.

Josh

 

[JMC]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math

Josh,

I might have got lost in this some where but what you're really doing then is taking the powder charge out and putting a new charge into the case? Then you are re-seating the bullet after you modified it's shape back on to your case again?

I'm trying to follow but I got lost in it all.

JMC

 

[Rarebreed93]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math

I don't think that I was "Telling Stories"
The only misinformation was who removed the link.
Nobody's on your case here.
I think that Captain Tango got your panties in a bunch.

 

[Guest]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Josh Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Priming mixtures can be done, but IMO you'd have to be brain-damaged to try it on more than a trial basis </div></div>
I had hope for you, right up to that post.

I believe the folks that are brain damaged, are the ones that think everything has to come from a store, and they can't do for their self's. There are folks that can get along just fine w/o store's. Which when you think about it may not be a bad thing, for the rest left behind.

 

[Josh Smith]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rarebreed93</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think that I was "Telling Stories"
The only misinformation was who removed the link.
Nobody's on your case here.
I think that Captain Tango got your panties in a bunch. </div></div>

Nope, seemed he was all upset, so I removed it and went a different route.

Josh

 

[Josh Smith]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Josh,

I might have got lost in this some where but what you're really doing then is taking the powder charge out and putting a new charge into the case? Then you are re-seating the bullet after you modified it's shape back on to your case again?

I'm trying to follow but I got lost in it all.

JMC </div></div>

Yes, that's it exactly.

The powder burn, as comes from a store, runs out in 14" to 18" depending upon who you believe.

I think that there should be specialized loads for rifles, and ones for handguns, with faster or slower rates to take advantage of the barrel length.

Josh

 

[Josh Smith]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Josh Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Priming mixtures can be done, but IMO you'd have to be brain-damaged to try it on more than a trial basis </div></div>
I had hope for you, right up to that post.

I believe the folks that are brain damaged, are the ones that think everything has to come from a store, and they can't do for their self's. There are folks that can get along just fine w/o store's. Which when you think about it may not be a bad thing, for the rest left behind. </div></div>

Nope, those are the brain <span style="font-style: italic">washed</span> IMO. What I meant by this was, and I worded it poorly, was that there is a mixture I know of that is extremely reliable but also extremely unstable.

On the other hand, the stuff made from match heads isn't all that reliable, but it's stable. Works maybe 3/4 of the time.

I'm not that great of a chemist, so I don't want to go mixing stuff up that I truly <span style="font-style: italic">don't</span> know about.

Believe me, if I could, I would in a heartbeat. It's just beyond my abilities at this point, and I therefore don't have a ready, safe mixture I can recommend.

<span style="font-style: italic">Re</span>loading with something that is either a) not reliable or b) not stable would be brain-damaged in my view.

In theory, it's easy to do. In practice, not so much.

Josh

 

[Guest]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Josh Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


Nope, those are the brain <span style="font-style: italic">washed</span> IMO. What I meant by this was, and I worded it poorly, was that there is a mixture I know of that is extremely reliable but also extremely unstable.

On the other hand, the stuff made from match heads isn't all that reliable, but it's stable. Works maybe 3/4 of the time.

I'm not that great of a chemist, so I don't want to go mixing stuff up that I truly <span style="font-style: italic">don't</span> know about.

Believe me, if I could, I would in a heartbeat. It's just beyond my abilities at this point, and I therefore don't have a ready, safe mixture I can recommend.

<span style="font-style: italic">Re</span>loading with something that is either a) not reliable or b) not stable would be brain-damaged in my view.

In theory, it's easy to do. In practice, not so much.

Josh </div></div>

The Match Head mixture w/o glass is worthless. 57 kitchen match heads of old for powder, will send a 150gr .308 stroking down the barrel, though.

There is no priming mix that is safe after it dries, fact. If your looking for a safety factor, don't be playing with the 22lr because it will get you hurt. Trying to make a 22lr rd faster than the same rd in a pistol is wasted motion. Your time would be better spent on learning the ability to get closer, if it's meat, or getting better at your wind and range call, if long.

The std 22lr will drop deer w/o issue in the right hands. Then again there are those that could not get within 5 yds or less of one, if their life depended on it. Table deer, were taken with 22's in the depression and beyond everyday up to 50yds. Now you have to have a cannon to close the distance. Power will never over come placement.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math

The thing I got from researching priming compounds is the simple fact that they work by friction, and not by percussion/impact. The major priming compound contenders all contain some form of abrasive grit, ground glass, whatever, as a friction providing component material .

Those among us who disregard suggestions to clean their barrels periodically are maybe building up deposits of said abrasives within their bores. I have some discomfort when I linger on that possibility.

 

[kansas45]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Those among us who disregard suggestions to clean their barrels periodically are maybe building up deposits of said abrasives within their bores. I have some discomfort when I linger on that possibility. </div></div>

Good point Greg.

 

[crumpmd]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math

Perhaps. The fact is the accuracy test barrels in use by the ammo manufacturers are cleaned at rare intervals.

 

[CamelSpider]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math

if you do not clean your barrel all that often then you do not rub those same abrasives into your barrel that often.

my point being that if you are worried about super fine micro abrasives you should also take into consideration what effect, if any, they have had. who knows maybe they smooth out those nasty micro imperfections inside your barrel.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Handloaded a .22LR. Can Someone Check My Math

Perhaps. I actually agree. Even with a borescope it can be difficult to link results with causes. I just see a danger flag when I see what's in priming compounds.

Greg