Has anybody tried the new Berger 85.5 .224 Hybrids?

[VSP968]

Haven’t seen these until today:

New 22 Caliber 85.5 Grain Long Range Hybrid Target Bullets

Our new 22 caliber 85.5 Grain Long Range Hybrid Target™ Bullets feature an improved center of gravity and ballistic coefficient. Utilizing advanced and proprietary manufacturing processes, our new innovative Meplat Reduction Technology™ (MRT™) System applies controlled pressure along the...

bergerbullets.com

Just ordered three boxes from MidSouth to try.

 

[memilanuk]

Outside of beta testers, probably not. They literally just came available for ordering in the past week.

 

[firas]

I'm thinking of picking up a box or two for testing in my .223rem, though not sure how it will work with the 1 in8" twist that I am running.

 

[memilanuk]

In theory... it might work. Personally I'd be more comfortable with it in a 7, but if you have an 8, it doesn't hurt to try. They are quite a bit shorter than the 90s.






...and before anyone asks, the 'B83 VLD' was a precursor for the 85.5. Didn't make it to market... it's just there for the sake of comparison - and because I had one handy

 

[VSP968]

I’ve got a 6.5 twist HB AR platform that loves the 90VLDs but I thought I’d give these hybrids a try.

 

[Shootin25]

Will be trying these in a 22 Creed 6.5 twist. Nothing to lose but jackets.

 

[gigamortis]

Very interesting. These Berger 85.5s might just replace the 80gr Amax in my wife's .223 when we run out of them. The overall length is the same between the Amax and the Berger. Our current load length with the Amax is 2.500" and we still have plenty of bearing surface within the neck.

 

[BoilerUP]

80 ELDs are about half the price of the 85.5s...

 

[padom]

80 ELDs are about half the price of the 85.5s...

But the 80 ELD's dont shoot nearly as good as the 80 Amax's in my 223 bolt guns. I have q few thousand 80 VLD sitting here to try once I run out of 80 Amax's..

 

[BoilerUP]

If a bullet won’t shoot, its price is immaterial.

But if it does perform, the question becomes how much better does a bullet twice the price have to perform to make its value proposition worthwhile? That, of course, has a very individual answer depending on skill and intended uses.

TL;DR: love to try a box or two in my 223, but dunno if they’ll supplant 80s

 

[gigamortis]

But the 80 ELD's dont shoot nearly as good as the 80 Amax's in my 223 bolt guns. I have q few thousand 80 VLD sitting here to try once I run out of 80 Amax's..

I couldn't get the 80 ELDs to group as tight as the old 80gr Amax either. Currently sitting on about 1000 old 80gr Amax. These Berger 85.5s look very tempting.

 

[VSP968]

Mine are due to arrive Monday. I’ll post my findings.

 

[orkan]

But if it does perform, the question becomes how much better does a bullet twice the price have to perform to make its value proposition worthwhile? That, of course, has a very individual answer depending on skill and intended uses.

No one shoots enough for it to matter. Those of us that do, don't care. We'll always buy the thing that shoots better, even if incrementally so.

 

[_Raining]

Neat, might be a good option for 600 yard F TR if you don't want to put in the effort to get the 90 VLDs to shoot. Though, I wonder if you need an odd throat in-between the 80's and 90's for optimal seating depth.

 

[VSP968]

Left to right:
80 Amax
80ELDM
80SMK
80VLD
80.5 Full Bore Target
82 Long Range BT Target

85.5 Hybrid

88ELDM
90VLD

90SMK
95SMK

 

[toxic]

I assume these can't be mag fed(2.26") from a 5.56/.223?

 

[_Raining]

I assume these can't be mag fed(2.26") from a 5.56/.223?

Can and should are very different things.

 

[Shootin25]

Mine showed up today. Action is in the mail and should have it shortly. Have seen testing but not at anything over 3k FPS. Will know in a couple weeks how they react to fast twist at fast speeds.

 

[memilanuk]

Prelim results with Varget...

Rifle is Savage 12 Palma action, 28" Krieger Heavy Palma 1-7 tw w/ Cortina tuner, McM XIT stock
Brass is once-fired Lapua .223, neck turned to 12.5 thou. Neck tension of 3 thou (.221 ID before seating), Federal 205M primers.

Ambient conditions were 38-42F each morning, between 80-95% humidity.

100yd seating depth test



Felt there was promise both at 11-14 thou, and the 23 thou group was nice but I didn't care for the groups on either side. So when I did the powder charge test, I seated everything long, and brought the arbor press and die to the range. Shot one group @ ~13 thou (based on previous experience with hybrids), and another @ 22 thou. 13 thou won.



Powder charge... obviously tight group @ 24.2, no discernable 'plateau' as far as velocities, OCW 'node' based on vert POI was around 24.6-ish, and calculated OCW/OBT node per QL would be around 24.5, based on ambient conditions. That may change considerably based on temperature. It appears the sweet spot for velocity (in this gun) is around 2800-2820, which jives pretty closely with QL.

Loaded up some more @ 13 thou jump, 24.5 gn Varget for tuner testing (fired round-robin, adjusting the tuner between each shot, then resetting to '0' and repeating the test). The group @ setting 14 was one hole... but the second shot wasn't a good break. Had one extra round, so at the end I re-set the tuner to '14' and tried sticking it in with the other two. No bueno. Fliers work both ways



Overall, I'd say it's looking promising for further testing. The velocity was a fuzz higher than I'd expected; may back it down to 24.4 gn. The bad news is that I'm about out of Varget... but it should be pretty easy to load to the 'target' velocity and work from there with another powder.

 

[Shootin25]

Anyone have any info on these running them fast in fast twist barrels? Loading some today and hoping to test mid week.
Thanks

 

[Sportin Wood]

Published BC's are a bit less than the 88gr ELDm's and over $10 more per 100...

 

[Shootin25]

Published BC's are a bit less than the 88gr ELDm's and over $10 more per 100...

Yup

 

[Geno C.]

I’d love you shoot cheaper Hornady bullets. However once they stopped making the amax, I’ve never been able to get them to shoot as tight as Bergers. I’ve got 3k of the 85.5 on the way. They might take the place of the 80vld in a gun or 2.

 

[Shootin25]

Well. Here we go..

 

[Geno C.]

What made you go with a 6.5 twist?

 

[Shootin25]

What made you go with a 6.5 twist?

Mainly for the 95’s, but realized i should’ve went with a 7 twist to begin with (or 7.5).

At this point, just looking to make something work. I’d be happy to get these to 3100ish... although not likely I’ve been told

 

[702lineman]

Oh yeah, they should do 3100 in that no problem. 22 creed??? My 22-250ai(very similar) pushed the 90 vld 3383fps. Backed them down to the slower node for matches though.

 

[Shootin25]

Oh yeah, they should do 3100 in that no problem. 22 creed??? My 22-250ai(very similar) pushed the 90 vld 3383fps. Backed them down to the slower node for matches though.

Yeah 22 Creed. Local matches only, I’m not a competitor .

 

[702lineman]

Keep us posted. H4350?

 

[Shootin25]

Keep us posted. H4350?

RL26, 7977, 4350, and 4831

 

[Shootin25]

Keep us posted. H4350?

Any idea on starting point with H4350?

 

[702lineman]

I'll have to look. I think my 3199fps load was 38 gr, but my case is a little bit smaller capacity.

I ran 41.4 gr in my 6 creedmoor with 105s, so I'd say if you should be close to that, probably a little higher but I dont know for sure

 

[zandnubbz]

I have a 22 Creed with a 24” 6.5 twist throated for 95 SMKs.

I did push both 90 VLDs and some 88 ELDMs through it both over 3300 FPS. This might help a little.... on charges and speeds.

I pre-ordered 85.5s for a new rig I have not shot yet with 0.030” less freebore and a 7 or 7.5 twist. I planned to shoot the 80.5s until the new 85.5s came out. I plan to use 85.5s over H4350.... start at 40.0 grains with 0.020” jump and work up. Hopefully Midway gets them out soon!

 

[Shootin25]

I have a 22 Creed with a 24” 6.5 twist throated for 95 SMKs.

I did push both 90 VLDs and some 88 ELDMs through it both over 3300 FPS. This might help a little.... on charges and speeds.

I pre-ordered 85.5s for a new rig I have not shot yet with 0.030” less freebore and a 7 or 7.5 twist. I planned to shoot the 80.5s until the new 85.5s came out. I plan to use 85.5s over H4350.... start at 40.0 grains with 0.020” jump and work up. Hopefully Midway gets them out soon!

Barrel twist was 6.5 for the attached data?

Clutch !

 

[zandnubbz]

Barrel twist was 6.5 for the attached data?

Clutch !

Correct, above data is for a 6.5 twist Bartlein heavy Palma 24”, Area 419 brake and Apha II action.... chambered by Short Action Customs with lots of freebore.

 

[Shootin25]

Correct, above data is for a 6.5 twist Bartlein heavy Palma 24”, Area 419 brake and Apha II action.... chambered by Short Action Customs with lots of freebore.

I’m at .080 and it sets itself up nicely for the 85.5’s

 

[zandnubbz]

That should be about right, hopefully the perform!!

 

[702lineman]

Mine should be here by the end of the week to try, hopefully this weekend. Loading in a 223 with 7 twist bartlien in aics mags

 

[Shootin25]

Mine should be here by the end of the week to try, hopefully this weekend. Loading in a 223 with 7 twist bartlien in aics mags

There’s some decent preliminary info on these in 223. Seems they’re in the 2800-2900ish range with promising results.

How long is your barrel?

 

[702lineman]

26in. Hope to be in the 2850 range. Have varget, xbr and cfe223 to try. Hope the mag length does affect it, but I think being a hybrid will help. I have an .092 freebore so that should help.

 

[Shootin25]

When you show up to the range on a Tuesday super stoked to try new loads and you open the box to find this..... wrong box..

 

[Geno C.]

Labels are your friend ?

 

[Shootin25]

Managed to make it back to the line this afternoon. Ran the 85.5’s with R26 at 20 thou off in 22 Creed.

Started at 37.5 which put them at 2850 ish... ok groups

Ran them up to 39.5 and they went 2990. Couldn’t group them at all at that speed.

Rifle is a new build. Barrel has 100 rounds on it now. Will measure throat again and start over with the 85.5’s.

Maybe there’s a faster node that I haven’t hit? Maybe this barrel don’t like them? Maybe I suck at reloading...

For reference, I also loaded some 95 smk’s per another members recommendations and they shot great.

 

[Sportin Wood]

Managed to make it back to the line this afternoon. Ran the 85.5’s with R26 at 20 thou off in 22 Creed.

Started at 37.5 which put them at 2850 ish... ok groups

Ran them up to 39.5 and they went 2990. Couldn’t group them at all at that speed.

Rifle is a new build. Barrel has 100 rounds on it now. Will measure throat again and start over with the 85.5’s.

Maybe there’s a faster node that I haven’t hit? Maybe this barrel don’t like them? Maybe I suck at reloading...

For reference, I also loaded some 95 smk’s per another members recommendations and they shot great.

Push it up to 3050-3075 and see if you get a good node..

 

[zandnubbz]

I ran 88 ELDMs in a 22 creed up to 44.4 grains of RL26... was giving me a little bolt lift and over 3320.
42.0 grains gave me 3100 and 43.5 grains gave me 3200.

On 90 VLDs of RL 26..... 42.0 grains gave me 3065 and 43.5 gave me 3175.

 

[Shootin25]

I ran 88 ELDMs in a 22 creed up to 44.4 grains of RL26... was giving me a little bolt lift and over 3320.
42.0 grains gave me 3100 and 43.5 grains gave me 3200.

On 90 VLDs of RL 26..... 42.0 grains gave me 3065 and 43.5 gave me 3175.

Barrel twist?

 

[zandnubbz]

6.5 twist at 24”

 

[Dschapp44]

6.5 twist at 24”

You should be able to go over 3300 with R26 in a 22 creedmoor. 95smks and R26 got to 3350 without pressure in my first barrel

 

[Shootin25]

6.5 twist at 24”

And you didn’t lose any jackets?

 

[zandnubbz]

Jacket failure with the load I used on 88 ELDMs. They were cooking at 3325 with H4350 and about 15% to 20% of them would not make it to the target. I never played with them that much as I had 147s in a SAUM come apart on me and “my” negative attitude took over and never did more development to find a lower node. I just stuck with 90 Vlds at 3120 until 95 SMKs came back in stock. I run 95s at 3090 with H1000.... the next node up and they wouldn’t make it to the target either. They will shoot and group at higher speeds, but I was losing 1 in 10 consistently. The 95 smk at 3090 works really well and should get some barrel life out of it.

Note, I never had a jacket fail on 90 VLDs but I didn’t push them over 3200.