Just wondering, saw a few who mentioned having it but no results yet. Just wondering if someone has data yet or could share potential starting points. If not, I'll post mine here Thursday, I'm getting 200 in tomorrow. Starting with H4350 with a 2/10th jump.
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Has anyone used A-Tips in 6.5CM yet?
- Thread starter 65shootmoor
- Start date
Wow, that's a barn burner for real. Probably puts H4350 in the high 2600 fps. Still seems too fast. I've gotten to 2860 with 142 smk, but it was during the barrel speed up. I'd love to get the 135 A Tips to 2800 safely.
These are his posts. I also find it very interesting to have insane MV. I'm sure even if no pressure signs appear, he must be at the upper extreme.
View attachment 7105458View attachment 7105470View attachment 7105471
These are his posts. I also find it very interesting to have insane MV. I'm sure even if no pressure signs appear, he must be at the upper extreme.
I've never seen a 1st round, cold bore jump higher than the group with good technique. Makes me think the concussion is pretty wicked on first shot and it spooked them.
As an update, the box of 135's I got measure very consistently, almost to the point of boredom. Only variance I saw was the ogive, but it was from compressing my calipers too much. If they vary at all, it's in the ten thousandths and I can't measure it. The lengths were all identical in my box.
I will be shooting it tomorrow morning, at 100 and 400 yards, to work on the load. Will try out to 1250 later this months once done.
I will be shooting it tomorrow morning, at 100 and 400 yards, to work on the load. Will try out to 1250 later this months once done.
I got a couple of hundred 135 grainers showing up Monday. I hope they shoot better than the Flatlines did?
This is not a new idea. It dates back to around the development of 7.62 Nato and was also seen in a different guise during the run of the Hi-Vel company.
Always someone who pisses in the pool. Doesn't have to be new to be in style.
I finished up shooting and am completely impressed. I will preface this with it needs more testing at longer ranges and probably will only show a big difference out there. I can only get to 400 yards today.
What's impressive is that near where I think the sweet spot is, it's cut my usual SD's in half. I can load 142 smk's all day off a $80 RCBS scale in the 4.8-6.2 range. I got a 2.6 and 3.4 with the A-Tips. I did get a couple 9.1 SD's toward the top of powder range I tried, but the kicker was that was the tighest group (@100) at 1/8". The rest averaged just under 1/2", borderline 3/8".
The real story is the low SD variance. I'll be ringing them out against my favorite smk load later this month to see the difference. One word of caution: as with any reloading, start lower than you think for charges and work up. I got significantly higher speeds with less charge than what Hornady's data will have you believe.
Their info shows 42.9 being 2775. I used a tenth less (in a barrel probably 2" longer than their test unit) to get an average 2830. This load had the tighter group, but crummy SD. I'm willing to chalk some of the groups up to my own issues. It's hot as hell in GA and my arms kept slipping from sweat, hence the left-hand bias of groups. Could be my turrets, but oh well.
There is loads of potential here, even in a Creedmoor. Enough that I'm thinking I want a 6.5 SAUM instead of the 7mm variety later to ring it out, unless they make a 7mm version (hint, hint Hornady).
I posted a few pictures, chalk the groups up to what I mentioned above. I know what I'm capable of when I'm not swimming in my own juices. I'll go ahead and say it: not worth the cost if you shoot at shorter distances. I mean, maybe you get that last 5% in benchrest, but I doubt it will show up. However, that is not what these are intended for. These need to go long to shine. Substantially cheaper than lathe turned solids and every bit the laser, I can't imagine pouring on more speed. I'll post the data I wrote down later, left book in my truck. Enjoy.
I finished up shooting and am completely impressed. I will preface this with it needs more testing at longer ranges and probably will only show a big difference out there. I can only get to 400 yards today.
What's impressive is that near where I think the sweet spot is, it's cut my usual SD's in half. I can load 142 smk's all day off a $80 RCBS scale in the 4.8-6.2 range. I got a 2.6 and 3.4 with the A-Tips. I did get a couple 9.1 SD's toward the top of powder range I tried, but the kicker was that was the tighest group (@100) at 1/8". The rest averaged just under 1/2", borderline 3/8".
The real story is the low SD variance. I'll be ringing them out against my favorite smk load later this month to see the difference. One word of caution: as with any reloading, start lower than you think for charges and work up. I got significantly higher speeds with less charge than what Hornady's data will have you believe.
Their info shows 42.9 being 2775. I used a tenth less (in a barrel probably 2" longer than their test unit) to get an average 2830. This load had the tighter group, but crummy SD. I'm willing to chalk some of the groups up to my own issues. It's hot as hell in GA and my arms kept slipping from sweat, hence the left-hand bias of groups. Could be my turrets, but oh well.
I posted a few pictures, chalk the groups up to what I mentioned above. I know what I'm capable of when I'm not swimming in my own juices. I'll go ahead and say it: not worth the cost if you shoot at shorter distances. I mean, maybe you get that last 5% in benchrest, but I doubt it will show up. However, that is not what these are intended for. These need to go long to shine. Substantially cheaper than lathe turned solids and every bit the laser, I can't imagine pouring on more speed. I'll post the data I wrote down later, left book in my truck. Enjoy.
Not pissing in the pool. Just saying Hornady took an old idea and updated it.
Maybe you should watch the video...
Maybe you should watch the video...
Your reply has exactly zero context for the discussion at hand, take your gripe elsewhere. I don't care if Hornady blatantly infringed on a patent, this current crop is outstanding.
My 198 A-TIPs work well out of my 7mm on game. They are explosive and devastating at close range but will still expand and penetrate all the way through a bull elk at 1700 yards. Been sending them down range at 2950 fps out of my 29" barrel 280 AI.
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One thing forgot to mention earlier, you have to jump the hell out of them if you want mag length. Didn't effect my accuracy, just more than I'm used to. My jump was 0.076" in order to fit my MDT mags (I have the binder plate model, 2.870" internal length). They make a longer one that I may try since I think I could sneak up on the next, higher node past 42.8 of H4350. Loading longer will keep pressure at bay, I didn't have any issues with the current attempt.
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Not that they advertise.
Maybe he’s shooting prototypes.
Shooting elk at just under a mile?
I’m looking forward to trying the 5.6 153’s
I hope so. I was originally thinking 7 saum until I found these. If they become available, it's a done deal.
Another observation I had was what seemed like less pressure than I'm used to with the smk's. I know the bearing surface is shorter on the A Tip by a decent margin. It's odd, I had to seat it (A Tips) much deeper as measured by base-to-ogive to fit mag, but I had no hint of bolt lift issue with 4/10th more powder than where it starts on the other load. I'm going to push it a little further to see. I'm seating 4/100ths longer than data from Hornady.
Interesting. My 6mm and 6.5mm Aren't here yet but it really blew my mind how short of a bearing surface the 230 grain .308 has versus traditional bullets. Luckily my 300 is short throated otherwise I can see guys running out of surface to grip with the neck.
I called Hornady to see if they had a jump recommendation or if it is sensitive. I was told it is not sensitive and that they had tried it from almost jammed (0.005" off lands) out past 0.045-0.05". It didn't seem to matter today. I'm wondering how much I can push the envelope if I seat it further out.
They consider that not sensitive after only testing 40 thou? Well hopefully all the chambers are throated the same.
That was just the specific number he remembered, he knew they had done more. The shape seems very forgiving, similar to the smk's, just more pointy. It's more pointed than Nosler RDF's but transitions to bearing surface almost without any noticable bump.
You dumb bastard. I am not griping. My post absolutely contributed to the material discussion at hand. Your attack did not. I wanted to say that Hornady took a proven idea that gives you better BCs and higher velocities and reintroduced it to the PRS world in a better form. I am quite happy that they did so and I expect these to perform quite well given the long history and science behind them.
Don’t attack me without understanding the context in which I am speaking. Otherwise you prove yourself to be an ignoramus.
Unless you are loading for this round and want to contribute that info, take your history lesson elsewhere. Also, you wouldn't name call to my face, so you can drop that crap, too.
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I think if it had the speed, it's better. Don't think it could be gotten in a CM, but the PRC or SAUM would be sweet. By Hornady's data for CM, the max charge for 153's is only good for 2650, 125 off the 135's. What speeds did you use to calculate the windage?
2700 for the 153, 2900 for the 135, which seems reasonable for both based on velocities reported here, give or take 50fps. It's not a big difference (I was using a 270deg wind of 10mph and it's less than a tenth of a mil). Retained velocity out at 1700 was a little better too. I'll probably go with 135s for the CM just to keep recoil down since I primarily shoot 500-1000, and just chamber a barrel for PRC and use 153s in that.
I think, maybe, I can get to 2900 with the 135's. Didn't have any heavy bolt lift and I'm going to try to load it a bit longer. But I think the 153's would be hard to get moving that fast safely in the CM, just due to seating depth. The 135's already have a huge jump to be mag length, the 153's will be worse. Maybe single feed? Ah, it's worth a shot. I like your PRC idea.
Yes, my MDT mags have the binder but I'm going to get one without to try. I just heard back from the guy who built the rifle that they will work, so yeah me.
I'd very much like to try the Reloader powders. I think I may have bought into the velocity fluctuations and went straight to H4350. I know they deliver more speed. Have you used them before?
FWIW, I ran RL-26 in a pressure barrel up to 48.5gr with 147gr ELDM's and you reach pressure around 48gr with Hornady cases and CCI/Fed LR Primers. 60-61ksi. In a 24" barrel that was 2850-2870fps.
Pretty sure you could break 2800fps with the 153's with RL-26 and a 24+ inch barrel. The 135's are more suited to RL16.
As far as jump tolerant, I've shot the 230 A-tips in my 300 PRC and have them jumping .095-.100" to fit in my CIP magazine and they hammer. .600" 10-shot group at 100 (9/10 inside .460"), 5-8fps SD of the various times I've chrono'd it.
Pretty sure you could break 2800fps with the 153's with RL-26 and a 24+ inch barrel. The 135's are more suited to RL16.
As far as jump tolerant, I've shot the 230 A-tips in my 300 PRC and have them jumping .095-.100" to fit in my CIP magazine and they hammer. .600" 10-shot group at 100 (9/10 inside .460"), 5-8fps SD of the various times I've chrono'd it.
If I could get my hands on RL-26 I'd give it a try. I haven't been able to find it for 4+ months now. I'll stick to the 135s for now, see how they do, and if RL-26 ever becomes available again, I'll give the 153s a try.
What's your mag length? My OAL in 6.5cm was 2.855", I had about half the bearing surface seated into the case.
Is all RL16 temp stable now or should I be looking for a jug that is marked as such?
@65shootmoor
Shooting Hornady 123 sst factory ammo in the grendel for now, nice groups .
Coal is 2.25 for the round and minimal clearance left in the magazine. I don't think you could go more without scraping.
Saving brass new dies soon as I choose one. The 123 seems to be a sweet heart for the grendel.
So far no 6.5g A tip offering from Hornady.
Looks very interesting.
Shooting Hornady 123 sst factory ammo in the grendel for now, nice groups .
Coal is 2.25 for the round and minimal clearance left in the magazine. I don't think you could go more without scraping.
Saving brass new dies soon as I choose one. The 123 seems to be a sweet heart for the grendel.
So far no 6.5g A tip offering from Hornady.
Looks very interesting.
I doubt they will offer a factory load with the A Tip, if they do it will be in one of the typical precision rifle cartridge. Min OAL on Hornady data is 2.815", so it won't fit.
Wait your saying these dont fit in mags and get to the lands?? Or you just cant do it with MDT binder plate mags? AICS mags 2.89", AW mags are good to 2.95" and ARC mags are 2.97".. What is the COAL of your round that touches the lands? Whats your freebore?
I assume SAAMI freebore. Binder plate mags have a COAL limitation that makes it hard to load out far. Hornady bullets love jump so as long as you can fit powder you're generally GTG. I'm sure once he gets some binderless mags he won't have any issue.
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