Helical Fluted Barrels?

[Jon Lester]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

gentlemen, I am in the final phase of patenting the process of adding an optical aiming device to a rifle........Get your wallet out boys, Momma is a gittin a new pair of shoes!

Also looking into putting a projectile in front of a charge of powder. When we get this set we will be in the green!!

 

[SSG3K]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

Always thinkin Jon...

Rich

 

[Adam B]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">gentlemen, I am in the final phase of patenting the process of adding an optical aiming device to a rifle........Get your wallet out boys, Momma is a gittin a new pair of shoes!

Also looking into putting a projectile in front of a charge of powder. When we get this set we will be in the green!!</div></div>

not that is some funny shit!!

 

[AlterEgo]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

If you can find a published photo or show a rifle (or possibly artillery) that has OD helical flutes, patent goes poof due to prior art.....

 

[737shark]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

It's hogwash

 

[Judd]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

I like the spiral fluting, looks awesome.

 

[TexasClassIII]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

Talk to Karl at Feldkamp Customs.

Here's my 223 he did. He fluted the bolt and barrel. It's either a 20 or 22" Rock barrel. Cant remember atm.

He also did the straight flutes on the 308 Obermeyer you see in some of the pics. That turned out great as well (flutes are really short because the barrel was fluted for an eventual overall length of just 18").

Karl said the spiral fluting on this 223 barrel was the most aggressive twist he's ever done on a rifle. I believe he said it was twisted 720 degrees IIRC.

I plan on posting more pics once my XLR chassis comes in.

Parker

 

[steelman303]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

Now, THAT, sir... Is BAD ASS !!
great lookin stick!
If it shoots half as good as it looks, you're in for a treat.

 

[TexasClassIII]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

Chad @ Custom Reloads of Dallas has some test loads waiting for me to pickup.

With SW Ammo I got a 4 shot 'group' of .209" (In my opinion anything less than 5 shots isn't really a 'group,' but at the time I was using the stock Tikka mag which only holds 4 rds).

BTW Karl @ Feldkamp Customs was an awesome guy to deal with. Super, super nice guy. Very helpful. Incredibly quick turnaround. Couldn't be happier.

Parker

 

[steelman303]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

I have a 24" ER Shaw on my AR & it's a complete wast of $$.
Worst POS I ever dumped cash into.
Not to badmouth ERS, but it is, what it is.

Just from experience as an engineer, I would be led to believe that the helical fluting (more so than straight fluting) would drastically increase the surface area of the barrel allowing for faster cooling. An integral "heat sink" if you will.
Would this be more of an advantage or cost effective for the average shooter's needs; probably not, but it sure adds a bad ass factor that just won't quit.

 

[Turk]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

Kinda like Harley trying to patent their engine sound.

 

[TexasClassIII]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

Yes, it saves a little weight.

...but I think the heat sink effect would be nearly impossible to notice on a bolt action rifle, unless you were just hammering round after round on a large magnum caliber with a suppressor. Even then, I just don't know if it would help that much. Traditional heatsinks expand the surface area exponentially. A computer's heat sink has a heck of lot more than double the surface area of the chip. And you'd have to have quite a stiff wind to really get any serious cooling done (think fan on a computer).

At the end of the day fluting is for one thing: looks. It looks awesome. I guess if you need to use weight or 'faster cooldown' to convince yourself to spend the $ that's great, but in the end you need to realize that the only noticeable effect is going to be a significantly more badass looking gun.

Parker

 

[Turk]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

Also probably not ideal to hang a can off of, as you are going to have greater poi issues w/ the can on and off compared to straight flutes; better yet no flutes.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also probably not ideal to hang a can off of, as you are going to have greater poi issues w/ the can on and off compared to straight flutes; better yet no flutes. </div></div>

If a supressor attachment weakens your barrel, you have more issues than flutes.

 

[steelman303]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TexasClassIII</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, it saves a little weight.

...but I think the heat sink effect would be nearly impossible to notice on a bolt action rifle, unless you were just hammering round after round on a large magnum caliber with a suppressor. Even then, I just don't know if it would help that much. Traditional heatsinks expand the surface area exponentially. A computer's heat sink has a heck of lot more than double the surface area of the chip. And you'd have to have quite a stiff wind to really get any serious cooling done (think fan on a computer).

At the end of the day fluting is for one thing: looks. It looks awesome. I guess if you need to use weight or 'faster cooldown' to convince yourself to spend the $ that's great, but in the end you need to realize that the only noticeable effect is going to be a significantly more badass looking gun.

Parker </div></div>


Well, to be fair, I did throw a "probably not" in my previous comment.
It sure makes it stand out in the crowd though.

 

[Turk]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also probably not ideal to hang a can off of, as you are going to have greater poi issues w/ the can on and off compared to straight flutes; better yet no flutes. </div></div>

If a supressor attachment weakens your barrel, you have more issues than flutes. </div></div>
Most all barrels have shift in poi; the unfluted has the least. Nothing to do w/ attachment.

 

[Boomholzer]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

Given the three modes of heat transfer, and the idea to reduce weight/mass and keep symmetry; there is no significant added mode of heat transfer. Even if you ignore internal boundary conditions and model the barrel material as obsolute; the end condition produces an elevated temp at the interior cut of the flute. If you add internal and various external conditions, the temp increase per time (or applied condition like applied short fast-fire) the interior of flute still becomes the hottest. Here, the results become more fun. If you were to take a dT/dt of interior flute edge in cease fire you would record a faster reduction of heat. The problem is that this delta was wasn’t anything special in cut or cooling, just a result of its elevated temperature.
Any normal profile will best the perceived cooling from fluting a barrel.

- There are no heat sink properties or cooling in interior flutes that would trump mass.
- There is no reduction with material removed in cut from barrel that adds to rigidity.
- A fluted barrel at length is less rigid then its round parent at same length.
- Fluted barrels have less rigidity per mass against same round counterpart.
- Fluted barrels have more rigidity in length against same mass per length.

 

[steelman303]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

Sorry I opened this can of worms.
Guys I think we are beating a dead horse at this point.
Fact of the matter is, & you can't deny, it adds a BAD ASS factor to any rifle & those shown above are a work of art.

 

[Fletcher/AAC]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

Another Kampfeld

 

[TexasClassIII]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

One thing to think about when getting helical fluting done is whether you want to end the fluting before the start of the threads, or if you want to take the fluting all the way into the threaded portion like I did.

Obviously this mainly applies if your gun is threaded for a suppressor.

 

[Twisted .308]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TexasClassIII</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Talk to Karl at Feldkamp Customs.

Here's my 223 he did. He fluted the bolt and barrel. It's either a 20 or 22" Rock barrel. Cant remember atm.

He also did the straight flutes on the 308 Obermeyer you see in some of the pics. That turned out great as well (flutes are really short because the barrel was fluted for an eventual overall length of just 18").

Karl said the spiral fluting on this 223 barrel was the most aggressive twist he's ever done on a rifle. I believe he said it was twisted 720 degrees IIRC.

I plan on posting more pics once my XLR chassis comes in.

Parker </div></div>

and I was gonna give you crap about the hammered up table and worn out couch.....must be spending too much money on rifles.....
then I saw the CAR !!! You Bastard !!! j/k LOL ;-)

 

[Jhnmdahl]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

It appears that there are two different basic configurations covered by the clams - one where the number of flutes on the outside matches the number of rifling grooves on the inside (claim 7), and another where the fluting grooves on the outside track the radial location of the rifling grooves on the inside (claim 1).

Doesn't matter if you make it in your basement and keep it there without profit or even shooting it - if you make a barrel that follows one of these two designs, you've infringed the patent.

John

 

[Swift]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

Another +1 for Kampfeld. These bitches are deep.

 

[crshep]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

Kampfeld Customs does the best work.
Good prices, fast turn-around time and a real pleasure to talk to.
If you want <span style="text-decoration: underline">any</span> kind of fluting done, call him.

 

[ranger1183]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

That is some of the best fluting I've ever seen. Very cool, can't wait to get mine.

 

[kb1]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

According to his web site, Kampfeld Customs isn't doing any helical fluting right now. I wonder if it has to do with Shaw's patent? Really wanted to get this done to my barrel, may have to look elswhere.

 

[Jhnmdahl]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jhnmdahl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It appears that there are two different basic configurations covered by the clams - one where the number of flutes on the outside matches the number of rifling grooves on the inside (claim 7), and another where the fluting grooves on the outside track the radial location of the rifling grooves on the inside (claim 1).

Doesn't matter if you make it in your basement and keep it there without profit or even shooting it - if you make a barrel that follows one of these two designs, you've infringed the patent.

John </div></div>

Just took a look at the ER Shaw site, and they have a design patent as well that is much broader. Des. 426,611 was issued June 13 2000, and so appears to expire on June 13, 2014. This is likely the one that's keeping other manufacturers from doing any helical fluting.

The utility patent 6,324,780 was filed July 9, 1999, and likely expires 20 years after the filing date.

John

 

[Swift]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

Does that mean these are collector's items?!!?!??!?!?!

First $6,000 takes my Brux in .260

 

[jonthomps]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Here's one one Preston's Surgeon built rifles...one of the early ones and still the most accurate rifle I own. .308 win. </div></div>

LOVE that super subtle fluting - very nice! I have a build in the works right now @ RWS. I'm so doing that!!!

 

[AMMOWASTER]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kb1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">According to his web site, Kampfeld Customs isn't doing any helical fluting right now. I wonder if it has to do with Shaw's patent? Really wanted to get this done to my barrel, may have to look elswhere. </div></div>

I would give him a call. That notice has been up forever and I get the idea he just doesnt do much with his website. I know that I have seen several pieces he has done since that message has been up there

 

[kb1]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

Will do. His work looks second to none.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AMMOWASTER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kb1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">According to his web site, Kampfeld Customs isn't doing any helical fluting right now. I wonder if it has to do with Shaw's patent? Really wanted to get this done to my barrel, may have to look elswhere. </div></div>

I would give him a call. That notice has been up forever and I get the idea he just doesnt do much with his website. I know that I have seen several pieces he has done since that message has been up there </div></div>

 

[96C]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crshep</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Kampfeld Customs does the best work.
Good prices, fast turn-around time and a real pleasure to talk to.
If you want <span style="text-decoration: underline">any</span> kind of fluting done, call him.

</div></div>

CR, Can you tell us about this setup?

Action, Barrel maker / contour / calbire / length and the type of fluting you got done please mate.

That looks beyond excellent! Good work.

 

[Bluejazz]

Re: Helical Fluted Barrels?

These spiral flutes look great.
What radius are you using, 360* , 480*,
And I would think the twist would be different on the bolt versus the barell in order to compliment each other.
So, while showing your barells, maybe you could also state the twist for both the bolt and the barell.