Hello! New to the forums. Finally 'pulling the trigger' on my AR setup.

[Praetorian_6]

Hello, fellas.

I just joined and wanted to drop in and say hi to the regulars. I wouldn't call myself a gun guy, as I'm not an avid collector, but I am a professional or at least used to be, and I eventually want a well-rounded group of quality firearms where each covers one of the following purposes: concealed carry, all-purpose battle rifle, tactical shotgun, & ELR rifle (less for practical need, more for sport). So far, I only have concealed carry covered, and I'm working out the AR setup now, which brings me to the forum. I've already gotten a lot of great advice and knowledge from this forum as I reviewed various products before purchasing them, and decided to join last night so that I can interact with you guys.

A little about me: I'm still active duty Army and serving as an analyst these days, and I'm no longer likely to be maneuvering on bad guys again in my career, but I served 10.5 years as an infantry officer including 2 deployments (15 months Iraq & 12 months Afghanistan) as an infantryman, and 5 years stationed in Germany.

A couple years ago, when I finally got back from all of that, I got my concealed carry permit in Ohio, and bought a couple concealed carry pistols - a 3" 1911 Kimber IWB and a Sig P938 for pocket. I also have an old .22 LR given to me by my father from my teenage years.

I had to go to school in California, and decided when I left that I was going to square my AR game away. Now, I'm back and before the upcoming Dem regime in Washington, I want to have the ability to defend myself/family/friends/community in a SHTF situation, and I can never replicate the amount of training I've already had on the AR platform. I want to round out my firearms so that I have a tool for every job. So,without further ado, here's the direction I've gone for the all-purpose battle rifle:

• For all-purpose patrol/ medium-to-longer range support (makes family 240 acre farm more defensible across the longest observable distances)
  • KAC SR-25 is on order (Expected delivery Dec-Jan)
  • 20" SS barrel with standard 3-prong flash hider & URX4 MLOK rails
  • PR Suppressor (just because I wanted to try one)
  • MAMS brake
  • KAC Bi-pod
  • spare BCG (Too proprietary to trust in SHTF)
  • Vortex Razor HD Gen III 1-10x24 in milrad
  • 45* Offset Micro T-2 Red Dot

For my SO, who is a left-handed shooter & for a bit more carry-friendly:

• Already owns P320 in 45 ACP for winter carry & P238 in 380 for pocket carry
• For all-purpose patrol & medium range support, more easily wielded in CQB than the KAC
  • On order (expected delivery 3 weeks): Aero-Precision M5E1 (lower and upper purchased complete but separate)
  • 16" CMV barrel
  • Magpul MOE pistol grip. (also ordered a Hogue rubber grip, not sure of compatibility)
  • Radian Raptor SD Charging handle
  • Magpul MOE stock
  • Geissele SSA trigger
  • Nitride Aero Precision BCG
  • Standard A2 Flash-hider for now
  • ACOG 4x32 (TA01B w/ 7.62 (.308 cal) Drop Compensator. because I carried this & loved it
  • 45* offset Trijicon RMR Red dot (cross-haired ACOG is tough at quick target acquisition in the short range).

My goal was to build rifles that were interchangeable on the important stuff: bullets, mags, rail accessories, & appropriate optics. I wanted the Aero Precision, because of the awesome reviews commending its durability and how non-proprietary it is. Looks like they make a quality, durable, reliable, affordable product. The Geissele trigger is because it most closely matches the KAC 2-stage for a more seamless transition when either of us goes from one rifle to the other.

I'm debating a VG6 Gamma muzzle brake for the Aero or even a surefire brake, but that would prevent the use of KAC suppressors, which would be nice for interchangeability. I like the idea of reducing recoil on what I expect will be the more snappy of the 2 rifles to begin with. Opinions are welcome on the right approach here. I'm not too excited about spending the coin on another MAMS, but when the MAMS goes on the SR25, I could use the standard 3-prong KAC flash hider on the Aero to make suppressors swappable, but then I lose the recoil mitigation of a brake. Thoughts?

So, again, hello everyone. I have designs on the night vision & accessory game, and the tactical shotgun game, but this post is long enough as is. I look forward to meeting all of you.

 

[DRT308]

Welcome, I don't pretend to be all knowing, here to learn. Sounds like you got it under control. I personally don't like muzzle brakes, and people I'm shooting with appreciate that. For reduced recoil I go with rubber butt pads installed. Thanks for your service.

 

[bigjake83]

Well first off Welcome to the Hide, and thanks for the INDOC speech.

It looks like you've made some pretty solid choices for your first AR purchases state side, not sure if would have opted to build another .308 I think the SR-25 will more than cover any needs you'll have in that department I probably would have looked for something that would be more suitable for long-range in 6.5 Creedmoor since you've got the land.

 

[sparky702]

Somebody I dont recall maybe area 419 is making a qd brake that will accept adapters for suppressors . I run across them while searching for a new brake for my match rifle . you might do some digging and find out who it is . I had a vg 6 gamma on a 6.5 creedmoor rifle and it worked very well for the money spent , I dont think it would be a good choice if you wanted to use the rifle for a suppressor host since it use's a crush washer on install .

 

[Poortrader]

I shoot my 14.5” BCM barrel out to 650 yards. 20” barrel doesn’t give you flexibility when you have to maneuver.

 

[Woodlanddude]

With scope choice, I'd stick to 18" for the long gun unless you already have the barrel. A 308 is a heavy gun for a patrol rifle. I'd only do this if your covered with 5.56 for that purpose. Plates are stopping either unless you have the right ammo. Not typically available on the market.

 

[Praetorian_6]

Thanks for the responses, guys. Here's what my thoughts are, and I don't consider my knowledge as on the same level as someone who studies terminal ballistics or DOPE charts. I'm just a guy who's seen some things that led me to some personal preferences.

I do not have a 5.56 rifle. I had a couple experiences in live fire exercises where I was impressed with the effects of 7.62 from M240Bs and how they chopped up decently thick trees and tore through "cover" in short order by comparison with the damage SAWs were doing to the same materials, despite a higher rate of fire. I knew then that when I got my own civilian rifle, I'd prefer the extra penetration power of a .308. Maybe I'll change my mind again down the road, but I think a 308 rifle can effectively do anything a 5.56 can and some things it can't with the only penalty being extra weight and bullet drop at close range. I just ran some math on this and it looks like a 7.62/.308 weighs about double that of 5.56. So, you can carry twice as much ammo at the same weight. Then again, carrying a combat load of ~200 rounds of 7.62 is only 11-12 lbs. A lot of weight when you're talking cutting 1/2 a lb off of a carbine, I'll grant, but I think some get carried away with this line of thought.

@sparky702 Thanks for addressing the suppressor question I had. I'll look into area 419. Also, I was considering the VG6 Gamma, too. Thanks for the info on it not being a great host for a suppressor. Can you help me understand how a crush washer causes a problem with suppressors? Or is it just along the lines of not being able to reuse crush washers to reinstall the brake?

@Woodlanddude Got ya on the 18" barrel. I'm not too worried about the weight, though. I'm a pretty big guy, and I usually ended up carrying the SAW or 240B in various infantry schools. A 10 lbs patrol rifle is no problem for me. I could carry it all day, every day. I'm in the minority that actually preferred the M16 (20") more than the M4 (14.5") for all things except room clearing. Also, I do intend to get some AP ammo if I have the opportunity to. I don't plan on fighting an army. So, a mag or 2, plus enough to zero, would suffice for my lifetime.

@bigjake83 I really gave the creedmoor serious consideration as it's an awesome round. The 7.62 and .308 ammo is definitely inferior to the 6.5 at longer range, but energy-wise it is still superior to around 500m on paper. Barrel life, cost, ubiquity all currently favor the .308. Considering those factors, and the fact that I intend to have a dedicated ELR rifle in perhaps .338 Lapua or .300 Norma that I can use when the .308 isn't the right tool for the job, leaves 6.5 without a place in the arsenal where the .308 arguably handles the medium range better and the ELR rounds will dominate both at long distance. That said, I couldn't fault someone for considering those factors and coming out on the 6.5 side for their answer, as it was a close cut decision for me. I still have more to think about before diving into an expensive ELR setup, though. I have a feeling that this subject is a Ford vs. Chevy kind of thing on a website like this.

 

[bigjake83]

Thanks for the responses, guys. Here's what my thoughts are, and I don't consider my knowledge as on the same level as someone who studies terminal ballistics or DOPE charts. I'm just a guy who's seen some things that led me to some personal preferences.

I do not have a 5.56 rifle. I had a couple experiences in live fire exercises where I was impressed with the effects of 7.62 from M240Bs and how they chopped up decently thick trees and tore through "cover" in short order by comparison with the damage SAWs were doing to the same materials, despite a higher rate of fire. I knew then that when I got my own civilian rifle, I'd prefer the extra penetration power of a .308. Maybe I'll change my mind again down the road, but I think a 308 rifle can effectively do anything a 5.56 can and some things it can't with the only penalty being extra weight and bullet drop at close range. I just ran some math on this and it looks like a 7.62/.308 weighs about double that of 5.56. So, you can carry twice as much ammo at the same weight. Then again, carrying a combat load of ~200 rounds of 7.62 is only 11-12 lbs. A lot of weight when you're talking cutting 1/2 a lb off of a carbine, I'll grant, but I think some get carried away with this line of thought.

One thing Id recommend as a Military Retiree is you need to try to stop thinking about your Private Firearms to be used or compared to Military roles, as we both know you don't get to use your personal weapons and equipment you use what you're issued. I see a lot of people here get hung up on the idea of SHTF mentality but it just doesn't work that way You're going to grab your gear load up a Truck or a Razor drive out to your shooting spot, prone out or sit at a branch and start slinging lead like the rest of us do.

I think the biggest difference between the large and small frame ARs is the shooting pleasantries, yes the .308 has a lot more ass behind it but generally the rifle platform is heavier and quite a bit harder to shoot accurately over a small frame and ballistically inferior to a lot of newer caliber options. I think you'd really like the idea of a 6.5 Grendel or a 6MM ARC, they both shoot from a small frame AR which is going to have less reciprocating mass and both the 108 and 123 ELD's have a slightly higher BC, they're going to give you significantly less wind drift all in a convenient little package.

 

[Praetorian_6]

Thanks for the rec's, Jake. I'll look into those rounds when I get around to looking at a small frame. Nice thing about guns is that, unlike cars, you tend to get your money back out if you find something better and change directions.

 

[RyanScott]

You’re going to make your wife carry and shoot a 16” 7.62? That’s cold man.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Been shooting 260 since 2001. It's my chambering of choice for 1000yd, and probably has enough oomph for several hundred yards further (I did manage to shoot a factory 24" Savage at 1KM with not problems whatsoever). That rifle now carries an L-W 28", and I will own it for as long as I draw breath, psychotic Congresses notwithstanding.

I carried the M14 in 'Nam for 13 months. It never let me down, and I love the 308. My current 308's are a 24" Savage 11VT, and a 20" PSA PA-10.

The 6.5CM differs from the 260 by only negligible differences, and should be outstanding for your needs. If terminal performance is your preference, look into the Speer 140gr Gold Dot Bonded Softpoint. I reload (mostly a necessity for the 260), and 140 Gold Dot loads are part of my setup.

My 308 handloads are not yet tested, but mirror my Federal 168 FGMM Clone load. I'm expecting good performance, but age, health, and lockdown are keeping me under wraps for the moment. At 4300-4400ft altitude here in the AZ high desert, I doubt I'll be needing 175's to reach 1000yd effectively. Fifty miles to Mex, as the crow bars.

Ford vs Chevy is a good analogy...

Greg

 

[theLBC]

welcome.
if you haven't started already, you should look to get at least some ammo now if you can find any.
bear in mind that it may be overpriced due to shortages and increased demand.
having awesome rifles is great, but you gotta have ammo.

 

[Praetorian_6]

@Greg Langelius * I appreciate the knowledge you dropped. I know very little about 260. I imagine I'll have a chance to work with 6.5 Creedmoor at some point. So, I'll reserve further judgment until then. I imagine at your altitude, that you can really get some distance out of an efficient round like that 6.5. I definitely think I'll end up reloading, especially when I start the ELR stuff. Much to learn I still have.

You’re going to make your wife carry and shoot a 16” 7.62? That’s cold man.

No issues there, but I think you did just convince me of going with a brake.

@theLBC yeah, I kind of thought about that and the best I could do was 500 rounds of m118lr for about $0.85 a round. That should hold me over until things settle down and prices become reasonable again.

 

[TxWelder35]

I would consider adding a 5.56 gun in there.

ive been pretty against 5.56 for lack luster performance but after owning a nice SPR now I’ve been pleasantly surprised. Shooting good ammo like the mk262 makes a big difference in the performance out of a 5.56 gun. Extremely easy to make hits on man size targets out to 600 extremely quickly with a bipod and rear bag.

 

[Praetorian_6]

Fired an M16 & M4 for 10.5 years in training and in hate. Hit an 800m Ivan 4 times in a row with one using M855 ball ammo on a bet once. Good weapons. I like em, but I just like .308 more. If I went with another, it would be a 10-13" barrel carbine specifically for CQB.

 

[Liberator52]

Welcome ! From Eastern Washington !

 

[sparky702]

to answer your question yes it would be a pain in the ass to use a vg6 gamma if you wanted to use the rifle for a suppressor host since you would need a supply of crush washers for when you want to re-install the brake .

 

[CrabsandFootball]

IF you can change the order to a 6.5CM, I would do that in a heartbeat. Much better round for shooting LR, less recoil, easy/cheap to find, easy to load, Lots of really great factory ammo out there.

 

[Praetorian_6]

@sparky702 Thanks. I thought there might be a compatible line of suppressors that connected to them. Guess I'll have to bite the bullet and get another MAMS.

Along that note, I just realized yesterday that my SR25's 3 prong and MAMS won't work because they are 3/4x24 and the threads on the M5E1 are 5/8x24. Fortunately, Knights sells them in that thread, as well.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I only just finally got a chance to review your initial post in the detail it deserves.

• For all-purpose patrol/ medium-to-longer range support (makes family 240 acre farm more defensible across the longest observable distances)
  • KAC SR-25 is on order (Expected delivery Dec-Jan)
  • 20" SS barrel with standard 3-prong flash hider & URX4 MLOK rails
  • PR Suppressor (just because I wanted to try one)
  • MAMS brake
  • KAC Bi-pod
  • spare BCG (Too proprietary to trust in SHTF)
  • Vortex Razor HD Gen III 1-10x24 in milrad
  • 45* Offset Micro T-2 Red Dot

I carried the M-14 in 'Nam, as I spoke of, above. It's not a lightweight rifle by any standard, but like in the Corps; if you carry it everywhere, weight becomes a non-issue, Functionally, it was as reliable as a hammer.

I think all of your choices are very good, and like many new folks, tend to be somewhat more idealized and less stressful of economy. I chose the PSA PA-10 based on a good price and some good reviews on this site. I have just barely proven it in its original form (and it's runs well), and then completely revamped things like the trigger, the bolt release, the stock, buffer group, and the hand grip. Unproven as yet, I remain optimistic. I added a limbsaver slip-on, and a very generic AR Stoner 3 chamber Brake. Unfortunately, AR-10 designs tend to be on the heavier side, and personally, if I had to carry that weight around anyway; I'd get a couple more inches of barrel so the weight has a positive reason behind it. I went with 20".

Like you, I like a BDC Scope, but since I had a bunch of rifles to mount up (seven), I economized with the Bushnell AR Drop Zone BDC line, buying them set up in the appropriate chambering optimizations, in my case the 223, the 6.5CM and the 308. I make do with the 308 for the 6.5 Grendel, they are very similar out to 500yd, and for the 260; I went with the 6.5CM, which runs practically on the very same set of tracks.

For get about interchangeability between parts. Practically nothing will work without retuning/rezeroing.

When I went with my full size cartridge AR, I chose the 308. Lots of good ammo is made for it, and most AR-10 patterns are optimized for the MilSpec 150gr to 175gr range of loads. When I can buy my preferred factory 308 ammo, it's IMI, both the 150gr and the 168gr. I especially like the IMI because the brass is very good for reloading if you're willing to take the extra step and remove the primer crimp. When I reload it I use IMR-4064 and recipes that approximate Fed GMM as close as possible, except that I substitute bullets of the same weight, but from the Speer Gold Dot Rifle line. Otherwise, I use Starline brass.

For your SO, I agree that weight should be an important issue, and I also believe that recoil from the 223 is really not that much of an issue. I would, however, consider a Linear Compensator. IMHO, they really don't do much for recoil, but more than make up for their weight (not very heavy either) with the way they redirect flash and blast noise away from the shooter.

• Already owns P320 in 45 ACP for winter carry & P238 in 380 for pocket carry
• For all-purpose patrol & medium range support, more easily wielded in CQB than the KAC
  • On order (expected delivery 3 weeks): Aero-Precision M5E1 (lower and upper purchased complete but separate)
  • 16" CMV barrel
  • Magpul MOE pistol grip. (also ordered a Hogue rubber grip, not sure of compatibility)
  • Radian Raptor SD Charging handle
  • Magpul MOE stock
  • Geissele SSA trigger
  • Nitride Aero Precision BCG
  • Standard A2 Flash-hider for now
  • ACOG 4x32 (TA01B w/ 7.62 (.308 cal) Drop Compensator. because I carried this & loved it
  • 45* offset Trijicon RMR Red dot (cross-haired ACOG is tough at quick target acquisition in the short range).

I notice a lot of emphasis on BCG backup. What all that ever happened to me was a broken extractor on a 6.5 Grendel that I had hopped up beyond the warning level. So unless your experience demonstrated a lot of BCG failures, I'd get the Spare Improved BCG's, swap them out with the guns, and keep the originals at home.

Two BCG's in the bag take up room and weight for ammo that has a better chance of becoming essential in a hurry than those BCG's. We never carried spare parts in 'Nam. If things got that bad, there were perfectly good rifles already lying around on the ground.

Unless of course you're out in Indian Country, Comms are down, and you're in an extended firefight. In such conditions, you might want to consider a bayonet, of which I own none.

Being a Marine, I own a couple of K-Bars, though. I bought them back when the going rate was $25 per.

Priorities; water, bullets, and bandaids.

Greg

 

[Praetorian_6]

@Greg Langelius * Another awesome post, man.

I carried the M-14 in 'Nam, as I spoke of, above. It's not a lightweight rifle by any standard, but like in the Corps; if you carry it everywhere, weight becomes a non-issue, Functionally, it was as reliable as a hammer.

Wiki says that weighs 9.2 lbs empty, and 10.7 with a mag. Aero Precision says the M5E1 with 16" barrel weighs 8.0. I'm surprised to see that Knight's rates my SR-25 at 10.5 lbs, but it doesn't state whether that's empty or loaded.

Then again, I loved carrying the M249 SAW that weighed 17 lbs empty, and I could sling that thing around when required. Ok, I didn't sling the 240 and might have even been tempted to throw it occasionally, but I could still manage and it weighs 27 lbs without ammo. I'm not saying I like extra weight, but nothing about patrolling in a SHTF has anything to do with "like".

I think all of your choices are very good, and like many new folks, tend to be somewhat more idealized and less stressful of economy.

I see these as once in a lifetime purchases, and if they are ever needed my life will depend on them. I suppose if it were a hobby and I frequently bought weapons or built up an armory, I'd have to tone it back a lot.

Unfortunately, AR-10 designs tend to be on the heavier side, and personally, if I had to carry that weight around anyway; I'd get a couple more inches of barrel so the weight has a positive reason behind it. I went with 20".

Same thinking here. That extra velocity is going to give more penetrating energy out to 500 yards or so, more velocity also helps with longer shots, etc... Honestly, what does 4" of barrel weigh? Seems like quite a bit of ballistic advantage for a very minor weight difference.

When I went with my full size cartridge AR, I chose the 308. Lots of good ammo is made for it, and most AR-10 patterns are optimized for the MilSpec 150gr to 175gr range of loads. When I can buy my preferred factory 308 ammo, it's IMI, both the 150gr and the 168gr. I especially like the IMI because the brass is very good for reloading if you're willing to take the extra step and remove the primer crimp. When I reload it I use IMR-4064 and recipes that approximate Fed GMM as close as possible, except that I substitute bullets of the same weight, but from the Speer Gold Dot Rifle line. Otherwise, I use Starline brass.

Great to know. I'll add that feather to my cap as a starting point for when I start reloading. I recently bought 500 rounds of 7.62 M118LR from a website for about 85 cents/round, and learned that the 7.62 Lake City brass is crimped. Otherwise, I've heard that the brass is pretty good for reloading. Do you think it will be worth keeping after first firing it, or should I look to .308 brass for my reloading needs in the future?

For your SO, I agree that weight should be an important issue, and I also believe that recoil from the 223 is really not that much of an issue. I would, however, consider a Linear Compensator. IMHO, they really don't do much for recoil, but more than make up for their weight (not very heavy either) with the way they redirect flash and blast noise away from the shooter.

It's actually .308, as well. I wanted mags & ammo to be interchangeable. I bought 20 Pmags (25 rounds each) to split. Perhaps that was excessive, but I'll bet no one will be able to buy them soon if the Dems sweep the legislature and White House, next month. Anyways, I bit the bullet and got a MAMS brake/compensator and a CQB Suppressor to go on the Aero Precision in addition to the MAMS that's going on the SR25. I hope that the ~60% recoil reduction they're good for will make it feel more like a 5.56. I've also heard that the SR25 is one of the softest shooting AR10s in the first place.

I notice a lot of emphasis on BCG backup. What all that ever happened to me was a broken extractor on a 6.5 Grendel that I had hopped up beyond the warning level. So unless your experience demonstrated a lot of BCG failures, I'd get the Spare Improved BCG's, swap them out with the guns, and keep the originals at home.

Two BCG's in the bag take up room and weight for ammo that has a better chance of becoming essential in a hurry than those BCG's. We never carried spare parts in 'Nam. If things got that bad, there were perfectly good rifles already lying around on the ground.

Agreed. It's not that I expect or have experienced BCG problems. Honestly, off the top of my head, I feel like I have had an issue or two, but can't remember anything specific. I just hate the idea of the Knight's BCG being so proprietary that I may not be able to find one in 2 decades, or in SHTF. Perhaps that's an argument for a spare barrel, too... When a barrel is worn, can it be relined or reused? I've heard that .260 can be taken out to .308, but I'm under the impression that a worn .308 is junk. True? On the Aero, I'm less worried as there are a myriad of BCGs that will work, and I'm not beholden to a single company being in business for decades. I also agree that rifle spare parts are not going in a patrol bag or Ruck. We did not carry extra parts in my career, either.

Being a Marine, I own a couple of K-Bars, though. I bought them back when the going rate was $25 per.

Priorities; water, bullets, and bandaids.

Greg

Honestly, I wouldn't mind having a bayonet. Seems like there are some folks that will expect your good nature and hold it against you, even if you are holding an AR in your hands. I like the idea of being able to force them to remain at a distance without actually shooting.

Thanks for your thoughts, Greg.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Keeping LC brass is common practice. I do it and I also think it might be questionable, and writers I respect put their preference with IMI over LC. I also like Starline and PPU/Prvi- Partizan; these brands price/quality seem to be superior to me. Folks buy Norma and Lapua, and they have their uses, but I think that use is too technical and competition-oriented, and the cost is excessive. Mainly, though, most commercial brands of 308 are good, and 7.62x51 NATO can be better, but the extra brass in the NATO case can require a small reduction in powder charges.

More importantly, there's also some Berdan primed brass out there, and should be culled as it is nearly impossible to reprime, and can damage the depriming rod. Given the choice, I prefer new, virgin brass, but will use fired brass without much more concern than to get it clean (to reduce reloading dies wear), and ensure it's not Berdan primed before I resize it. Some dents, like in the mouth or shoulder, are OK; but bashed brass shouldn't be kept; brass is cheap enough to allow a few culls to be made. I sort brass by headstamp, and generally keep new-bought brass as batches throughout its lifetime. Nearly all of my rifles have brass catcher mounts installed.

When I fired my PA-10 with 168gr IMI, the recoil was quite tolerable with no recoil taming measures. I've had some petty extensive chest surgery that makes me more susceptible than most to recoil.

Bayonets look good on the page, but when it comes down to mounting them, it's hard to find the necessary hardware on the open market. In essence, they bayonet's impact is psychological. We were taught that if the bayonet gets stuck, to fire a round to assist withdrawal, which was the dumbest lesson I've ever heard. If I have rounds I'm going to use them instead of the bayonet. Period. A knife is a tool, usually, and a weapon very rarely. I never needed either during my combat tour.

Firearms are not for persuasion. They should only come out when their primary use is absolutely necessary, life is at stake, and alternatives are scarce.

Altering a barrel, even cutting, is poor economy, IMHO. Buy a new one. Many, myself included, consider a barrel to be a wear item. Barrels, in general, wear out at the throat due to heat and gas cutting. If a barrel is a very expensive one, or irreplaceable due to age/scarcity, and if the rest of the bore/rifling is still in a usable state, it may be possible to cut the chamber end out and rechamber the remaining section. Add the complexity of replacing the barrel extension (as with the AR) would make that process too expensive for me. I have even concluded that if the barrel can't be removed from the Upper without extraordinary effort, it's usually most effective to simply discard the upper/barrel assembly, They are usually replaceable simply and cheaply enough to make that a simple choice.

Suppressors (with that unjustifiably expensive tax stamp and ridiculously long delay, with all that money, they could afford a few more folks to do the processing) are out of my price range, and the government's insistence on inserting itself between citizens and their choices is an overreach that goes well beyond my personal preference.

The power to tax is the power to deny. I'll pass.

Greg

 

[Praetorian_6]

I've got a problem, guys.

The SO's came in, today. I've already got the geissele trigger, Acog on a QD LaRue mount, an offset RMR, a Hogue rubber grip, & CTR stock on it. The problem is that I love it too much! It's better than anything I ever went into combat with by a long shot, literally. I really hope the Knight's is going to make me feel that much more over the moon when it comes in, or I don't know how I'm gonna get over this thing.

 

[1911addict42]

@sparky702 Thanks. I thought there might be a compatible line of suppressors that connected to them. Guess I'll have to bite the bullet and get another MAMS.

Along that note, I just realized yesterday that my SR25's 3 prong and MAMS won't work because they are 3/4x24 and the threads on the M5E1 are 5/8x24. Fortunately, Knights sells them in that thread, as well.

Wait... what is this? I just bought an SR25 and a MAMS.... they're not all compatible? Maybe I missed a different point

 

[Praetorian_6]

Wait... what is this? I just bought an SR25 and a MAMS.... they're not all compatible? Maybe I missed a different point

You should be ok. It's just that the industry standard, from what I can tell is a 5/8x24 thread for most AR10s. The SR25 is a 3/4x24. If you ordered them together, I imagine you're ok.

 

[1911addict42]

You should be ok. It's just that the industry standard, from what I can tell is a 5/8x24 thread for most AR10s. The SR25 is a 3/4x24. If you ordered them together, I imagine you're ok.

I didn't order them together... just bought one from someone else on the Hide

 

[Praetorian_6]

KAC makes MAMS for AR15s and for AR10s. Assuming you at least went with a 308-based MAMS, then the chances are good that it's coming off of another SR25. Even if not, you'll just end up with something you can get your money back out of or save until you get another AR to put it on.

 

[1911addict42]

KAC makes MAMS for AR15s and for AR10s. Assuming you at least went with a 308-based MAMS, then the chances are good that it's coming off of another SR25. Even if not, you'll just end up with something you can get your money back out of or save until you get another AR to put it on.

Yes it was for an AR10. Thanks

 

[Praetorian_6]

I might be getting carried away, but that's a good thing, right?

On order:
- Knights SR30 (9" barrel in 300 blackout)
- Aero precision parts to build an 11.5" AR pistol in 5.56

 

[Praetorian_6]

Just a quick update with the new Thunder Beast bipod, and Eotech + magnifier that will probably end up on the 11.5" 5.56 build:

Don't think I had the MAMS on last pic, either.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

That is one impressive item there.

The optics magnifier is one I'm not familiar with. If it is rigidly mounted (does not flip off to one side at need) it could be somewhat inconvenient in a CQB situation, but otherwise, I think they are a great addition to a reflex sight.

From somewhat dim memory, experience dictates that anything pertaining to CQB needs to be as basic and simple as possible. Options devour time, and can put you out of step with a fast moving situation. You run what you brung; the time for options is already past. Practice before, select and set up the best options and go with that when the likelihood of CQB is imminent. IMHO, in CQB, nothing beats the reflex sight.

Distance lends time for selecting options on the fly, and are where variable magnifications/optional reticles become more useful.

I never had situations develop where significant distances were involved, the M-14 was a very basic and reliable instrument, and it served the purpose as well as could be found at that time.

Over time in the years since my service (1966-68, USMC, RVN), I went from owning and treasuring an M1a to acquiring and admiring the AR system. It's really the better choice. The AR has a much larger multitude of configuration options, has been thoroughly understood and mastered, and can do things the M-14 could only do when pushed very hard. Going from a CQB optimized platform to an MR/LR precision firearm can be a simple as swapping uppers. My AR-15's range from an M4gery to a 24" SR/MR F T/R gun, with a pair of 6.5 Grendels in the mix as well. The M1a could never be so versatile, IMHO. If pushed, any of my AR-15 Uppers could be used with any of my AR-15 lowers. All of the lowers' ergonomics are custom refined and identical, using Choate E-2 Stock with the thumb hook/bag rider stock toe.

But even with all this, I still enjoy and frequently shoot my M-1 Garand. It is the family treasure.

FWIW, my CQB ensemble is a Ruger American Pistol 9 Pro (trigger safety only ala Glock) and Ruger PC Carbine 9, which has the mag well adapter for the same 17rd mags used in that American 9 Pro. A bit heavier, but compact and reliable.

Also, FWIW, only two of my AR Uppers (the M4gery and the PA-10) are set up with bipods, the UTG Recon Flex unit which mounts to the side M-Lok slots of the hand guard and do not interfere with recoil motion when firing from bags/rests. All of my AR's are set up to permit bag riding, which allows straight back recoil and can contribute to precision accuracy. For this same reason, most of my magazines have a ten round capacity, shorter to reduce the potential for a magazine to catch and deflect the rifle's natural motion during recoil.

MY EDC Concealed Carry is an S&W M&P Shield 22LR Compact in an IWB belt clip. Actually fabricated by Walther, it has adjustable sights and is a really sweet little piece. IMHO, a holdout is not for stopping an assailant, but for distracting and deflecting their intent. It simply allows for a milder option.

Greg

 

[Praetorian_6]

@Greg Langelius * concur on reflex sight, and general simplicity for CQB. It's a Vortex VMX-3T with a flip over option at the push of a button. I have to say that I'm not the biggest fan of EOtechs, but my family likes 'em. So, I felt I should get one to encourage their enthusiasm. Even when flipping the optic out from behind EOtech, it flips up in a way that still blocks some visibility. This happens regardless of which way it flips. This, again, is not good in a CQB situation. One improvement would be a QD attachment to the rail so that it can be quickly pulled off and stowed in a pocket, or whatever. Then, when entering to clear a building, or any situation where you know you'll be at CQB-range only, you can just remove it entirely. Then, when complete with short range ops, you exit the building, move back into more open terrain, throw on the magnifier and you're good. As is, removal would require a tool.

Your wars were entirely different than mine. Whereas you presumably had a lot more vegetation, it was open desert in most places in Iraq. In Afghanistan, it was either open flat terrain around Kabul, open terrain around Khost, or some mountain ridges in the terrain east of Khost where from one ridge to the next was hundreds of meters to over 1km away. Pretty much in any situation other than CQB, I'd rather have the 7.62/.308. It's nice to see the army transitioning away from 77gr 5.56mm to the H&K M110A1 as their SDMR. That's a nice capability to have in infantry squads. I've heard that there were still units carrying M14s and EBR14s when I was there, but my unit didn't. They had only started introducing squad designated marksmen. I think we had a few 77gr shooting 20" SDMRs, which were pretty much a glorified M16 with a better long range round. We did have snipers attached. I don't know what systems they carried. Perhaps the original M110/SR25. For us conventional guys, if we were lucky, we'd have M2s or even Mk19s (Awesome). And, if we chose to carry it, one of the best long-range weapon systems we had was a Javelin that could fire further than even the best marksman, but it was obviously overkill, heavy, capacity limited, and very expensive. If I could have personally carried this rifle in theater, instead of my standard M4, I would have. That said, it is no CQB rifle. Large, heavy, unwieldy. It's not the go-to for such a situation.

I also grant that even if I find myself in a civilian SHTF situation in America, the engagement ranges are far more likely to be up close and personal. Having a dedicated CQB setup like your setup is definitely the way to go. I like the SBRs out there that allow for impressive transition, though. The 300 BLK from a 9" barrel has a max effective range of 440m, at least, and the ability to go from that to subsonic ammo with pistol-like ballistics but with more penetration with just a change of a magazine is just awesome. Seems like there are plenty of tactical situations that merit owning such an AR pistol or SBR. A rifle like that with a reflex sight makes a lot of sense to me. So, that's what the CQB rifles I ordered will get.

Thanks for you comments about recoil effects of accessories. I hadn't really considered that, as my target shooting has normally only been out to 500m, and in the past I didn't know much about sub-moa precision or what it took to get there.

 

[Praetorian_6]

Add a Scattergun Technologies TR-870 into the mix to round out my shotgun game.

I've heard it's a smooth actioned 18" 870 with most standard upgrades:
- "ghost ring" iron sights
- oversized safety
- 2 shot extension
- pistol grip with AR-style adjustable stock
- trigger spring
- side saddle
- Integrated fore end surefire tac light
- external parkerizing
- Barrel work
- action fitting/smoothing

Looks nice. Looking forward to getting a feel for it:

 

[AlphaThree]

I might be getting carried away, but that's a good thing, right?

On order:
- Knights SR30 (9" barrel in 300 blackout)
- Aero precision parts to build an 11.5" AR pistol in 5.56

Just a quick update with the new Thunder Beast bipod, and Eotech + magnifier that will probably end up on the 11.5" 5.56 build: View attachment 7495902

Don't think I had the MAMS on last pic, either.

Where did you order the SR30 from?

good call on the TBAC bipod. I picked one up based on the recommendations here and like it much better than my Atlas and Harris (obviously).

 

[Praetorian_6]

Direct from Knights.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Regarding recoil, 308, and brakes; the most recent outing demonstrated that while recoil is nicer with the brake, the noise is downright annoying under a tin roof.

Referring back to the initial testing with the A2 Flash suppressor and 168 IMI, the recoil was never an issue. The muzzle brake has been replaced with a Linear Compensator, which does very little for recoil, but redirects noise out front, away from the covered line; no noise reduction, just redirection. It makes shooting on a busy line less of an annoyance to the others around me; just being a good neighbor.

Also just took delivery of spring-back 22LR steel targets, and a Caldwell crank-style loader for rotary 22lr magazines. The loader is a bit temperamental, but it can be coaxed into getting it done with a bit of practice. There are some negative reviews on the Amazon site for it, but I chalk them up to impatience and a need for further practice.

Greg

 

[Praetorian_6]

The latest additions to my arsenal, including a 12Ga Scattergun Technologies TR-870 (Wilson Combat), and an 11.5" AR pistol that I've added the SBA4 (I think) brace, Geissele SSA trigger to stay consistent with my other rifles, a magpul MS4 QD sling, and an ambi-safety. I got in touch with Knights today and they've got the Flash Hider that will be compatible with my future 7.62 QDC suppressors.

I'm still waiting on the following to close out my current orders: SR25, SR30, QDC PRS suppressor, and my QDC CQB suppressor that is awaiting ATF approval.

 

[Praetorian_6]

Gosh, I've gotta say that while I knew it would be a long time to fulfill my SR25 order from knights, I kinda expected I'd see the rifle by now. It looks like I placed the order on 16 September, based on email traffic. If not, it was within a week of that date, and at the time they estimated lead times at 90+ days. We're well into the "+" side, now. I'm still patient, though. I'm also excited/anxious to get it. The sooner the better, but if it takes another 90 days, I suppose I'll live, lol.

Anyways, I got something from them, this week. It's their 1/2x28 thread pitch flash-hider that will work with the 7.62 QDC suppressors that I'm still waiting on. Oh, and I also mounted the EOtech, magnifier, and MS4 sling:

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Welcome and good luck finding what your looking for.

You might have to settle for a less than top tier rifle just to have something.

Besides everyone know the whole 2 is 1, 1 is none thing.

3 is even better.

 

[Praetorian_6]

Welcome and good luck finding what your looking for.

You might have to settle for a less than top tier rifle just to have something.

Besides everyone know the whole 2 is 1, 1 is none thing.

3 is even better.

Thanks, man. I'll wait it out. I still have faith that the troubling times will pass. There are enough guns in my family, let alone the Aero Precision M5 & M4 above. I'll have enough to get by in a crisis, at this point.

 

[Praetorian_6]

Welcome and good luck finding what your looking for.

You might have to settle for a less than top tier rifle just to have something.

Besides everyone know the whole 2 is 1, 1 is none thing.

3 is even better.

Well, you were right. I decided I'd rather be safe than sorry. Picked up another M5E1.

 

[Praetorian_6]

The SR-30 is finally in. Took from November (I think) to now. Looks/feels great. I did not realize just how BIG the 300 BLK TA11 ACOG was. It looks comically big to me, but it's very easy to acquire a sight picture with all the eye relief.

 

[acudaowner]

welcome from delaware

 

[Praetorian_6]

The QDC/PRS suppressor just invoiced! 21 months. I'm surprised, being aware of the gov contracts for suppressors, that it'll end up coming in before the SR-25.

 

[ut755ln]

The QDC/PRS suppressor just invoiced! 21 months. I'm surprised, being aware of the gov contracts for suppressors, that it'll end up coming in before the SR-25.

I just saw this thread and was trying to figure out why someone bumped something from 2020 . I admire your patience, going back to your original post it seems like your choices are reasonable and sound. Good luck to you.

 

[Praetorian_6]

It took a while to get (25.5 months), as laid out in my 'Lead Time' thread, but it's finally here:

Initial impressions:
- Surprised it came without a manual & without a 5-round test target. I thought those were standard, but I'm not spun up about it.
- Case is a little flimsier than I imagined. I'll store it and use one of my pelicans.
- Really like the look of the safety selecter lever. Looks cooler than the older Knight's style, which I believe I have on my SR-30. We'll see if there's any functional difference
- Rifle looks magnificent... Very excited to have it. This is all that matters, in the end.

I have a lead-sled. So, I do intend to do my own 5-round test target. This will happen before I add a scope or make any adjustments. While it was a little concerning that a test target didn't come with the rifle, the sales that are on gunbroker also did not appear to come with one. So, I guess this is a corner cut from Knight's to catch up on orders. I won't care about this in the end if the rifle is shooting within reason: sub-MOA.

NightForce C615 4-16 Mil-XT is on order. Badger ordinance COMM mount on order. Already have a MAMS and backup BCG I ordered long ago. Honestly, I had a Vortex Gen-3 Razor HD 1-10 and the same mount with a Micro T-2 offset laser dot, but that ended up going on the Aero-Precision I ordered, a couple years back.

 

[bigjake83]

I have a lead-sled. So, I do intend to do my own 5-round test target. This will happen before I add a scope or make any adjustments.

The shit KAC owner's say...

 

[Praetorian_6]

Alright... I guess that's not the thing to do with a lead sled. Thanks for the helpful input, Jake. Do you just post on this forum to shit-talk people who are otherwise happy? Ok. Do your thing...

 

[Praetorian_6]

I PCS'd from Fort Knox and the move has consumed all of my time from the last update. Whereas I went to the range at least a dozen times, last year, I have not been back to a range, this year. However, I've finally settled near Fort Bragg/Liberty, and I just got back from a trip to finish out the move process. I finally have all of my household goods here, and finally have in my possession all of the gun-stuff I ordered. After ordering in November of 2020, I finally have the suppressor at home. Without further ado, here's the Gucci setup I've always wanted:

The setup:
Knights Armament SR-25 PR (20" Stainless Steel) .308
NightForce 4-16x42mm F1 Mil-XT, Pn C615, on a...
Badger Condition One Max Mount, Pn 154-340KB (34mm, 1.54" Tall)
Knights 762QDC/PRS Suppressor, supposedly Knights quietest and lowest pressure before the PRT stuff.
Knights Armament Bipod Pn 31693

I have 1.70" 45* angle J-Arm & mounts for either a Trijicon RMR or an Aimpoint T1/T2, and for consistency I'm thinking I'll go ahead and mount a T2, which is how I setup my alternate sight on the Aero-Precision.

I have not mounted the KAC MAMS. I'd like to do my test target, even if BigJake doesn't approve, before changing anything.

 

[bigjake83]

I PCS'd from Fort Knox and the move has consumed all of my time from the last update. Whereas I went to the range at least a dozen times, last year, I have not been back to a range, this year. However, I've finally settled near Fort Bragg/Liberty, and I just got back from a trip to finish out the move process. I finally have all of my household goods here, and finally have in my possession all of the gun-stuff I ordered. After ordering in November of 2020, I finally have the suppressor at home. Without further ado, here's the Gucci setup I've always wanted:

View attachment 8198311

View attachment 8198324

The setup:
Knights Armament SR-25 PR (20" Stainless Steel) .308
NightForce 4-16x42mm F1 Mil-XT, Pn C615, on a...
Badger Condition One Max Mount, Pn 154-340KB (34mm, 1.54" Tall), with a...
Knights 762QDC/PRS Suppressor, supposedly Knights quietest and lowest pressure before the PRT stuff.
Knights Armament Bipod Pn 31693

I have 1.70" J-Arm & mounts for either a Trijicon RMR or an Aimpoint T1/T2, and for consistency I'm thinking I'll go ahead and mount a T2, which is how I setup my alternate sight on the Aero-Precision.

I have not mounted the KAC MAMS. I'd like to do my test target, even if BigJake doesn't approve, before changing anything.

Don't worry about what I say or think, I applaud anybody who's willing to challenge themselves and find out their own capabilities.. majority of the people on here just want to go out and bang Steel and mock people who enjoy shooting for groups. The reason they mock people who chase the Accuracy Dragan is because they are incapable of doing so themselves and discover they do not possess the skill or self-discipline to consistently shoot a Sub Half MOA average.

Also the only reason I gave you shit in the above post is because you made it sound like you were going to shoot your accuracy Target with no scope or sights mounted on a Lead Sled.. I thought you would have picked up on that by now, guess not.

Anyway, good luck and happy shooting.