So I just got a bore scope and am not good at interpreting what I am seeing. The pics attached are from a Savage 100 in .270. It probably has around 350-400 rounds through it. Any experienced folks care to weigh in on the condition? Photos start at the troat and work toward the muzzle.
Gunsmithing Help deciphering bore scope pics
- Thread starter creedman12
- Start date
It hasn't been shot in quite a while. I took it out to test some loads and it shot about 1.5 moa on average. Just wondering with the barrel looking like that if I even needed to keep working on it.
That is quite normal for a savage barrel. They look like someone drove a D-8 cat down the bore, but they normally shoot very well with the right load. I would check to make sure the barrel is free float and try different action screw tensioning. Also check different weight and brands of ammo.
Yeah it's still in the original cheap 110 stock from 1993. It's not fully floated. I think I may drop it into a Hogue stock since they're cheap and free floated. Plan to try some 140 and 150 SST with H4831.
That’s the problem with bore scopes, knowing what you’re looking at. Unless you install a lot of barrels it’s a curiosity at best. I’ve seen crap barrels shoot lights out and perfect barrels shoot like crap. If it shoots good who cares what it looks like.
D
Deleted member 10043
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It looks fine. There are plenty of resources out there what bad looks like. FYI, try not to get obsessed with borescoping. Like if it is shooting fine it's okay. If you see a little copper near the muzzle doesn't necessarily mean it is like that all the way down if you see a little copper here and there doesn't mean you need to freak out. You will know pretty quick just passed the chamber if it is fucked out and it will be obvious. A person can get by without a borescope, and most of us did for decades, but with a smartphone and an inexpensive cable people can now add them to their wheelhouse. It is a good educational tool but don't get obsessed with it. The best borescope that won't make you lose sleep is the bullet.
I'm using my borescope as a colonoscopy, does this look ok?
Do you clean from the chamber end or the muzzle?
I am always surprised at the anti borescope rhetoric.
When did ignorance ever benefit anyone? I realize it is common but seldom if ever beneficial.
The images are not complex to interpret at all. You don’t need a PhD to know what you are looking at. The fact that a barrel shoots well today is no indication of wear, erosion, effectiveness of cleaning regime, excellent or poor rifling or chambering. All this and more can be learned by use of a borescope.
Borescope images seem to offend the same folks who think you can drag a dirty “bore snake “ through a dirty barrel and have both end up clean in the process.
All of this reminds me of a local engine builder when I was young. He sneered at me building motors in a clean, dust free environment with clean tools and clean hands. Nothing fancy, just common sense.
He assembled dirty parts with dirty hands in a filthy environment. Utilized sockets with sand and grease in them. I offered help but he refused and had continual problems.
I bet today he uses bore snakes and hates bore scopes.
When did ignorance ever benefit anyone? I realize it is common but seldom if ever beneficial.
The images are not complex to interpret at all. You don’t need a PhD to know what you are looking at. The fact that a barrel shoots well today is no indication of wear, erosion, effectiveness of cleaning regime, excellent or poor rifling or chambering. All this and more can be learned by use of a borescope.
Borescope images seem to offend the same folks who think you can drag a dirty “bore snake “ through a dirty barrel and have both end up clean in the process.
All of this reminds me of a local engine builder when I was young. He sneered at me building motors in a clean, dust free environment with clean tools and clean hands. Nothing fancy, just common sense.
He assembled dirty parts with dirty hands in a filthy environment. Utilized sockets with sand and grease in them. I offered help but he refused and had continual problems.
I bet today he uses bore snakes and hates bore scopes.
Borescope images may not be complex for some but at the same time often are not simple to understand cause or effect. Think about it like a 10 second iPhone clip from the Blake video vs the Kenosha police report. Then throwing it on social media and there's riots in the streets. Images on a screen are still not as 'good' as the human eye, and often we only see one POV image. Whereas when Im on borescope am looking at it literally from all angles to determine what I may be looking at then video or photograph the 3 and taking notes . We are talking tiny numbers here. I've sat with QA folk with their video scope/ big screen monitors gasping at the size of an anomaly in a chromed 556 groove. My PhD in twisticles knows that a 556 groove is .074" wide and the screen size is a 36" monitor and that one groove you are looking at fills this 36" monitor. My background knows that at that resolution, chrome is going to look crazed as it's a lot of plates stuck together not a smooth satin. I had a lapped barrel, fresh not shot, where qa was going to reject for straight lines on the lands. They said, what's weird is those lines weren't there when we first looked. I said yeah, that's because those are the lines you just put in my lapped bore dragging that damned borescope back and forth looking. So often what is seen in these images does take a little background in knowing what is and what ain't.I am always surprised at the anti borescope rhetoric.
When did ignorance ever benefit anyone? I realize it is common but seldom if ever beneficial.
The images are not complex to interpret at all. You don’t need a PhD to know what you are looking at. The fact that a barrel shoots well today is no indication of wear, erosion, effectiveness of cleaning regime, excellent or poor rifling or chambering. All this and more can be learned by use of a borescope.
Borescope images seem to offend the same folks who think you can drag a dirty “bore snake “ through a dirty barrel and have both end up clean in the process.
All of this reminds me of a local engine builder when I was young. He sneered at me building motors in a clean, dust free environment with clean tools and clean hands. Nothing fancy, just common sense.
He assembled dirty parts with dirty hands in a filthy environment. Utilized sockets with sand and grease in them. I offered help but he refused and had continual problems.
I bet today he uses bore snakes and hates bore scopes.
Example. Ive had people in very high repute standing first in line looking thru the borescope stating things like the chamber is 'messed up', 'and I see why'. 'Reason is you see here there is no freebore in the throat'. 'This is why it will never work, throat is wrong'. Errone standing around applauding, well done sir! Very cool story bro, good eye good eye, but let me take a glance. One problem in your theory is you are looking at a 7.62 Nato throat, or a 30-06 throat, or a .270 Win throat, et cetera that has no freebore or leade. It's just throat, and the one that matches the drawing.. So lets keep lookin, but might let me drive..
Use the borescope as a tool or aid, not as the arbiter. Too many pics of people asking if their barrel is shot out after they shove their teslong in and see things they can't understand yet. But if you keep track of things, you'll start to see trends and learn more about what is going on inside your barrel more than you will find what is wrong with your barrel.
Later
I'm not against bore-scopes, it's just funny how people look at an average factory barrel and are shocked at the tooling marks, thinking it's bad. The scopes do have their place: Looking for carbon rings, fire-cracking, rust pits, eroded gas ports, etc. Just do some research first before jumping to conclusions.
Maybe I'm oversimplifying things, but if you see "something" in your bore with a scope, there's really only three choices.
1. Clean, shoot, replace barrel. (based on poor accuracy)
2. Clean, shoot, keep barrel. (based on good accuracy)
3. Don't clean, Don't shoot, replace barrel. (based on not understanding what you are looking at)
Assuming a barrel is new/low round count, personally, I'd be very hesitant to replace a barrel based solely on what I saw with a borescope.
1. Clean, shoot, replace barrel. (based on poor accuracy)
2. Clean, shoot, keep barrel. (based on good accuracy)
3. Don't clean, Don't shoot, replace barrel. (based on not understanding what you are looking at)
Assuming a barrel is new/low round count, personally, I'd be very hesitant to replace a barrel based solely on what I saw with a borescope.
So with all that pomp and circumstance, this is what I see. Which has nothing to do with performance, but what are you looking at and why does it look like that.
You are looking at the result of the condition of a pre button rifled bore. If it was bore reamed after gundrill, then they are ream marks and drill marks possibly. If it was gundrilled only, then those are gundrill tool marks. I don't have their drawing which states their surface finish requirements.
Thanks
D
Deleted member 10043
Guest
I am always surprised at the anti borescope rhetoric.
When did ignorance ever benefit anyone? I realize it is common but seldom if ever beneficial.
The images are not complex to interpret at all. You don’t need a PhD to know what you are looking at. The fact that a barrel shoots well today is no indication of wear, erosion, effectiveness of cleaning regime, excellent or poor rifling or chambering. All this and more can be learned by use of a borescope.
Borescope images seem to offend the same folks who think you can drag a dirty “bore snake “ through a dirty barrel and have both end up clean in the process.
All of this reminds me of a local engine builder when I was young. He sneered at me building motors in a clean, dust free environment with clean tools and clean hands. Nothing fancy, just common sense.
He assembled dirty parts with dirty hands in a filthy environment. Utilized sockets with sand and grease in them. I offered help but he refused and had continual problems.
I bet today he uses bore snakes and hates bore scopes.
Who is offended by borescopes? An enema bag is good tool too but sticking it up your ass every day may be a problem.
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I'm using my borescope as a colonoscopy, does this look ok?
Looks like the throat is worn......have your dude use more KY.
Looks like a Savage barrel. Reamer marks and/or button chatter. If you slug it, I wouldn't be surprised with anywhere from .268-.270 on bore diameter, and .275-.277 on groove diameter.
I'm not necessarily anti-borescope, but I do roll my eyes and sigh at nearly every one of these posts. Can you learn something from bore-scoping a barrel? Sure.. sometimes. Most times, however, if a barrel doesn't shoot, bore scoping it doesn't tell me anything. It'll tell you what a factory barrel looks like, what a good barrel looks like, and how well your cleaning process works. It won't tell you why accuracy sucks, won't show land/groove variation, won't show diameter variation, only shows very poor machining (that still shoots fine most of the time anyway)...
About the most useful thing the end user is going to do is find carbon rings. Otherwise what you see doesn't matter most of the time other than to satisfy curiosity.
I'm not necessarily anti-borescope, but I do roll my eyes and sigh at nearly every one of these posts. Can you learn something from bore-scoping a barrel? Sure.. sometimes. Most times, however, if a barrel doesn't shoot, bore scoping it doesn't tell me anything. It'll tell you what a factory barrel looks like, what a good barrel looks like, and how well your cleaning process works. It won't tell you why accuracy sucks, won't show land/groove variation, won't show diameter variation, only shows very poor machining (that still shoots fine most of the time anyway)...
About the most useful thing the end user is going to do is find carbon rings. Otherwise what you see doesn't matter most of the time other than to satisfy curiosity.
Not sure if vintage Savvy, but probably better then .002" on both bore and groove otherwise the air gages mightn't fit. But I do agree in the what you think you see may not bee. Qualitative analysis measures what these things you see might be. Scratch and sniff profilometer testers can tell you what surface finish you have. More to the eye..
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