Help me choose a LR/Precision Rifle!

[Expert684]

I got three custom built rifles and three RPR’s. RPR Gen 1, 6.5 Creedmoor, LRI barrel, Seekins front end, Timney trigger, PRS Gen 3 stock. Shoots .650” at 200 yards all day. Fix the RPR up, master body position, recoil management, reading wind and conditions will make you a better shooter. Then once you master the basics, you will have the skill sets to apply to a better platform. JMO, good luck!

 

[Who?Me?]

This! Pick up a non folder AI AT in 6.5 CM. Shoot it for a while and save up for the AX stock. Or if the standard stock works for you then pick up a standard folding stock from someone who did the AX conversion.

You may bust your 4K budget when it’s all said and done but I doubt you’ll regret it. I didn’t.

Good info, I’ve read seen their rifles online.
And I’m sorry, but I need to ask:
—> Specifically, specifically what makes AI a better or more accurate rifle?
—> What do their parts do that other manufacturers/parts don’t do? Or don’t do as well?
Is it just the chassis? Or just the barrel? Or just the .....

 

[Who?Me?]

Have you thought about calling a smith such as TS customs. $4000 is a lot of money to spend on a rifle. If your going to make that commitment you should at least use a smith that you can get on the phone. A Bighorn TL3 with a quality barrel chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor would be a nice rig.

Cool. Will call TS Customs. Believe me, I don’t want to spend $4k, it I need a quality rifle. Quality as in functionality. It can be ugly as h*ll, but as long as it shoots straight to a thousand yards, I’m happy.

 

[Who?Me?]

That statement right there is a reason to start looking at the reloading section information. Match ammo can vary lot to lot, there’s no guarantee it’ll be a good pair for your rifle, and you could get some real ugly standard deviation/ extreme spread in your velocity but shoot good groups at 100yds. Instructor was shooting Hornady match in 6 creed that he normally runs prime in, and that lot was giving him an es of 100 FPS. He had hell on the targets further down range

Unfortunately you are right! ?
I’m gonna have to learn hand loading —- if there can be that much variability in Match rounds — that won’t work for me. I need to still choose my caliber, so I will start checking out that hand loading forum

 

[Last Chance]

Thx LR338,
I checked out the APO- Snipers Hide Edition. $1800 stock + LRS package $850= $2650 + tax, etc. You are right, there is a lot of gun there for the price. Same for PVA John Hancock. As a newbie, I only know of the big names that advertise- Ruger, Winchester, etc.

But what I'm still trying to figure out is, what is the real difference b/w my stock Ruger Precision for $1200 .....
-- and a PVA John Hancock?
-- and a APO Snipers Hide?

I mean, I see brand names with PVA and APO, not so with RPR. I was at the gun shop last week, and I asked the salesman (a knowledgeable guy Ive worked with before) "what is the difference b/w my RPR and this Christenson Arms MPR/Modern Precision Rifle for $2800? he just shrugged his shoulders and smiled. Maybe he couldn't say it out loud b/c his job is to sell guns and make money.

Is he telling me that all this marketing for a "better" rifle is just BS????? I have only had a RPR, so I have northing to compare it to. But the message I got from him is that the RPR is great bang for the buck, and I haven't really "maxed out" what the RPR can do in terms of LRP and accuracy. I had assumed that the stock RPR was entry level, and that a rifle that cost twice as much at $2400 would be ..... better, more accurate. Is this not the case?

I just acquired a JHR in 6.5 CM...I love it... I, too, started out with a Gen II RPR...Honestly, so far at least, the JHR is 'only' slightly more accurate than my RPR...But, 1. it is lighter. 2. The Nucleus Action is much smoother. 3. I like the ergonomics of the JHR (KRG Bravo chassis) better. 3. The Rock Creek barrel seems to be more 'stable'...By that, it doesn't seem to be affected by 'heating up' and perhaps 'walking' rounds when 'hot'... I'm still putting the first couple hundred rounds through it and I understand the JHR will improve with a few more rounds. Bottom line. The JHR gives me all I want or need...Perhaps with practise, I will go from .5 MOA accuracy to .25MOA... I really don't care... I'm too old to get into reloading again, so that may not be possible...Lol Oh, the JHR does NOT have a folding stock...And, that is fine with me...I too, spent the big $$$ on optics...NF ATACR 5-25. I will only have one rifle and can move that scope to whatever I own...I have lots of room to shoot and plan to stretch out...Steel, varmints, etc...No PRS or big game... Those days are over for me...JMHO...(I must admit I spent more$$$ on the RPR...Timney trigger. MB, better bolt shroud, and Magpul stock...So, I ended up most likely spending as much on the RPR as I did on the JHR...Live and learn...I don't regret it, the RPR shoots lights out...It just wasn't the 'rifle' I wanted to end up with... (Oh, I did add a Geiselle 2 stage trigger to my JHR...Lol) Now, I need to order more ammo!!!

 

[Who?Me?]

I have a gen 1 rpr in 6.5 cm, timney trigger and titanium bolt sleeve. Its wearing its 3rd barrel, a Krieger. I bought a mpa ba comp in 6.5 cm switchlug. I love the mpa but its at mhs getting bedded and the sl removed and new barrel. I truly hope it shoots as well as my rpr when its done. I'm not knocking anything, just saying dont underestimate the rpr.

Or overestimate the MPA? What happened to the MPA?
The action came loose from the bedding/stock?

I’m not drawn to the MPA SLs- I don’t need barrel changes, and it’s just more parts to go wrong than a designated barrel. But since MPA was in the top 3 of my list, I would like to hear more about your experience with it.

 

[Who?Me?]

I just acquired a JHR in 6.5 CM...I love it... I, too, started out with a Gen II RPR...Honestly, so far at least, the JHR is 'only' slightly more accurate than my RPR...But, 1. it is lighter. 2. The Nucleus Action is much smoother. 3. I like the ergonomics of the JHR (KRG Bravo chassis) better. 3. The Rock Creek barrel seems to be more 'stable'...By that, it doesn't seem to be affected by 'heating up' and perhaps 'walking' rounds when 'hot'... I'm still putting the first couple hundred rounds through it and I understand the JHR will improve with a few more rounds. Bottom line. The JHR gives me all I want or need...Perhaps with practise, I will go from .5 MOA accuracy to .25MOA... I really don't care... I'm too old to get into reloading again, so that may not be possible...Lol Oh, the JHR does NOT have a folding stock...And, that is fine with me...I too, spent the big $$$ on optics...NF ATACR 5-25. I will only have one rifle and can move that scope to whatever I own...I have lots of room to shoot and plan to stretch out...Steel, varmints, etc...No PRS or big game... Those days are over for me...JMHO...(I must admit I spent more$$$ on the RPR...Timney trigger. MB, better bolt shroud, and Magpul stock...So, I ended up most likely spending as much on the RPR as I did on the JHR...Live and learn...I don't regret it, the RPR shoots lights out...It just wasn't the 'rifle' I wanted to end up with... (Oh, I did add a Geiselle 2 stage trigger to my JHR...Lol) Now, I need to order more ammo!!!

Sorry, what is JHR?

 

[never_summer]

Patriot valley arms John Hancock rifle

 

[Long Range 338]

Reloading is a whole other issue and expense to consider. Reloading can become a serious expense in time but many enjoy it. Match ammo is very good and consistent, but it is made to SAAMI specifications. Hand loads are made for YOUR rifle, fitting your specific chamber and having the bullets seated for YOUR chamber. Also using your preferred components and velocity that you decide. If you want to shoot more, buy ammo. If you want the most accuracy out of your rifle, reload.

AI rifles are amazing. AI is a complete system (their own action, barrel, and chassis) built to be reliable and accurate in the worst of conditions. Mainly the great thing about the AX and AT is that you can purchase pre-chambered barrels and put them on yourself so you don't have the downtime without your rifle. Also it makes multi caliber system very easy.

I've got a Gen 1 RPR in 243 and can get hits out to 1200 and beyond with the factory barrel and my hand loads. It's not that the RPR can't be exceptionally accurate in its own right, its that a custom is just a better built product. I've got a replacement LRI 6.5CM barrel to go on the 243 once I shoot the barrel out but I've been enjoying it tremendously as is.

 

[Who?Me?]

I got three custom built rifles and three RPR’s. RPR Gen 1, 6.5 Creedmoor, LRI barrel, Seekins front end, Timney trigger, PRS Gen 3 stock. Shoots .650” at 200 yards all day. Fix the RPR up, master body position, recoil management, reading wind and conditions will make you a better shooter. Then once you master the basics, you will have the skill sets to apply to a better platform. JMO, good luck!

“I got three custom built rifles and three RPR’s”. Is that all? LOL

So you are saying the RPR is very competent?
And that your treasured custom rifles look awesome, feel awesome, and shoot good, it not necessarily better than a partially customized RPR.?
(That is not a rhetorical question, I am really asking)

 

[Who?Me?]

Patriot valley arms John Hancock rifle

Which would you choose Never summer?
The APO Snipers Hide edition LR rifle or the PVA John Hancock?
And why?

 

[abn31c]

Or overestimate the MPA? What happened to the MPA?
The action came loose from the bedding/stock?

I’m not drawn to the MPA SLs- I don’t need barrel changes, and it’s just more parts to go wrong than a designated barrel. But since MPA was in the top 3 of my list, I would like to hear more about your experience with it.

Yes, action was moving around in the chasis. I really like it, just needs some tweeking. As far as the barrel goes I cooked it running 130 hard. I must be honest, I'm a Krieger fanboy. I would buy another Curtis Axiom in a heartbeat. Love the action.

 

[never_summer]

Which would you choose Never summer?
The APO Snipers Hide edition LR rifle or the PVA John Hancock?
And why?

I can’t answer that since I haven’t had my hands on either of those.

 

[Luvman]

Good info, I’ve read seen their rifles online.
And I’m sorry, but I need to ask:
—> Specifically, specifically what makes AI a better or more accurate rifle?
—> What do their parts do that other manufacturers/parts don’t do? Or don’t do as well?
Is it just the chassis? Or just the barrel? Or just the .....

First let me get this out of the way. After reading about AI’s here for years I finally was able to buy one. I’m a fan boi. I only own one centerfire bolt gun. It’s an AI AT with AX stock and I shoot .308.

I wouldn't say they’re more accurate than others mentioned here. With an AI I would expect a sub MOA rifle. I would label mine as a 1/2 MOA rifle with factory ammo. I’ve shot a 1/4 MOA 3 shot group with a barrel I bought used with 1K rds through it. I’m not a 1/2 MOA shooter. My 10 shot groups tend to hover right at or just under MOA. But when I miss I have confidence it was me. Not my rifle throwing a weird flier.

AI’s are a system. The action is epoxied to the chassis. They are designed as a war worthy target rifle. They’re consistent.

Post ‘14 rifles have a quick change barrel system that is rock solid. Barrel swaps take under a minute and return zero if torqued properly.

Short action AX’s and AT’s use AW mags which are arguably the best bolt action mag made. And they allow for a a COAL of up to 2.94” or so.

They are 6 lug 60 degree actions. They’re very smooth but the bolt lift is heavy. Their safety is a bolt shroud mounted 3 position that blocks the firing pin.

They’re easy to maintain in the field with minimal tools. I can strip my rifle down to the bare chassis and action with a 2mm and 4mm hex wrench. Bolts, barrels, and triggers can be swapped in the field. Easily.

Now to the downsides. They’re heavy. I think a bare AT is about 13-14lbs. You’re stuck with the factory pistol grip. Factory spare parts like bolts, firing pins, and triggers are expensive. And can be hard to come by.

ETA: pic is the first 5rd group from my rifle. The 14th-19th rds fired while sighting it in with no special break in.

 

[Codiekfx400]

The John Hancock Rifle would fit your needs well. The problem is they are not immediately available. But this one is https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...triot-valley-jh-308-w-nucleus-action.6949323/

 

[M8541Reaper]

Keep your current setup and find factory ammo that your system likes. It’s 2019 and there’s zero reason to push a new shooter into reloading, especially with how far factory match ammo has come. If you aren’t hitting at 800, let alone 600, then handloading isn’t going to help you.

I really wish fucking people would stop recommending handloading to shooters who don’t have a solid grasp of the fundamentals or have adequate experience behind the glass, especially when you can run factory ammo at 1,000yds all day long. All it does is set them up for failure.

Hammer down your fundamentals. If you haven’t hit past 600 with a 6.5, then it’s most likely your fundamentals and not the rifle. Factory R700 308s easily run out to 800 on FGMM so there’s zero reason a better performing caliber can’t do it out of that rifle.

800 and in misses are predominantly shooter error, due to lack of fundamentals and wind reading experience. With the proper fundamentals and wind experience, you can easily run 77gr 5.56 at 800yds, so 6.5/308/whatever shouldn’t be an issue.

Learn to read mirage for wind (think of it like water flowing in a river/creek), get a good ballistics app (BallisticsARC) with a weather flow meter (you now have accurate environmental data paired with an excellent ballistics app so you shouldn’t have any problem with a second round (elevation) hit* and the ability to easily true your data, grab a data book (impact data books’ modular data book - hell even a notepad works or free data book pages printed online), and practice your fundamentals through dry firing, dummy rounds, and recording yourself while doing the above and while at the range. Record your data, document your results and self-critiques, and keep track of your maintenance/cleaning/ammo performance.

However, if you don’t have confidence in your system (even if it isn’t warranted), that can lead to a lack in performance. If that’s the case, and you’re hellbent on buying a new rig, check out Area 419 for a custom barreled action (1/2MOA guarantee) and throw it in a KRG chassis. You’ll be under budget and might get close to your weight goal. You could also just grab a used AI AT folder in the PX (or a Demo on EuroOptic) for waaaayyyyyyy cheaper and it will last you a lifetime in any environment.

Great job on glass choice, that will last you a lifetime. A bit overkill on the magnification for your intended goals, but you don’t have to worry about it breaking when you drop your rifle or band it against the environment lol. If you want to shed weight and size, look at the 4-16x F1. You’d have more than enough to work past 1,000yds and you’ll have a great FOV at closer distances for hunting.

Lastly, if you’re shooting off Of a bench, get off and get prone. If you’re on bipod, take em off and shoot off of a pack. If you don’t have a pack, then fill up some sandbags and shoot off of them. Take as many factors out of your equation as possible. If you don’t have a fundamentals cheat sheet, then make one. Laminate it and put it next to your firing position. Say each of them to yourself before each shot. If you’re unsure of the fundamentals, then reach out to whoever you took a “sniper” course with and ask the instructor to send you a cheat sheet/list. If they aren’t willing, then shoot me a message and I’ll send you a cheat sheet.

Best of luck and I hope this helped. If you have any questions let me know and I’ll help the best I can.


*2nd rd hits should never be the goal, but rather I use this as an example of finding your elevation data for the specific yard-line, should you not already have it. Spoiler rounds should never be encouraged nor should they be acceptable to any shooter.

 

[Expert684]

“I got three custom built rifles and three RPR’s”. Is that all? LOL?

So you are saying the RPR is very competent?
And that your treasured custom rifles look awesome, feel awesome, and shoot good, it not necessarily better than a partially customized RPR.?
(That is not a rhetorical question, I am really asking)

I would say the customs marginaly better due to the fact that the size of the barrel are more rigid and the actions are more precise. Two of my customs are M24 24” contours. The RPR barrel is limited in diameter because it uses an AR15 based barrel nut. Barrel quality, rifle platform and a great scope are only starting points. The weapon and ammo need to be the best you can assemble, they become constant factors. The guy behind the weapon and conditions are the variables. Your skill set grows along with a good work program and you become the last constant. Then conditions are the last and only variable to deal with.
This was taught to me by folks that were on military shooting teams as I shot on our state high power teams back in the day. I still use these skills today for F/ TR and FPR competion. They have served me well. You’ll do fine.

 

[garandman]

Re- barrel the RPR action, get a carbon fiber chassis (XLR or other) and start handloading your own ammo.

A 20" barrel will suffice under 500 yds and save some weight.

 

[pewpewfever]

I’m surprised you are planning on using that scope for hunting due to the high minimum power and the resulting low field of view. At 7x, the fov at 100 yards is less than 15 feet, which limits speed in making shots of opportunity with game on the move. I’ve always heard that a hunting scope should have a minimum power of 4x or preferably less. At 3x, the fov is more than 40 feet.

 

[M8541Reaper]

I’m surprised you are planning on using that scope for hunting due to the high minimum power and the resulting low field of view. At 7x, the fov at 100 yards is less than 15 feet, which limits speed in making shots of opportunity with game on the move. I’ve always heard that a hunting scope should have a minimum power of 4x or preferably less. At 3x, the fov is more than 40 feet.

Good point. Definitely overkill for someone who predominantly is working inside of 500 and even 1000. The ATACR 4-16 would be a good move for the better FOV without worrying about reliability.

However the biggest issue present is with his lack of fundamentals and wind reading, not his equipment. Unless something isn’t torqued/installed correctly or there’s a quality control defect, he shouldn’t be missing at that distance.

Too many variables that can’t be addressed without hands on to know for sure.

 

[Who?Me?]

Yes, action was moving around in the chasis. I really like it, just needs some tweeking. As far as the barrel goes I cooked it running 130 hard. I must be honest, I'm a Krieger fanboy. I would buy another Curtis Axiom in a heartbeat. Love the action.

Still interesting to me that the bedding/chassis was unsound. MPA touts such high quality that I would think it would take a 3/4 ton truck to drive over it to disengage the action from the chassis/bedding.

 

[pewpewfever]

Good point. Definitely overkill for someone who predominantly is working inside of 500 and even 1000. The ATACR 4-16 would be a good move for the better FOV without worrying about reliability.

However the biggest issue present is with his lack of fundamentals and wind reading, not his equipment. Unless something isn’t torqued/installed correctly or there’s a quality control defect, he shouldn’t be missing at that distance.

Too many variables that can’t be addressed without hands on to know for sure.

The training videos here have really helped me. I thought I was pretty good, but I was an iron sights competitor. When I started using a scope, I wasn’t adjusting the diopter to focus on the reticle instead of the target, nor adjusting parallax for sighting in in the manner described in the videos. Nor was I dialing more than an inch off the target dot when shooting groups to prevent the target dot from changing in size and position due to impacts. And I’m not done. I have many more videos to watch.

 

[M5NSX]

Keep your current setup and find factory ammo that your system likes. It’s 2019 and there’s zero reason to push a new shooter into reloading, especially with how far factory match ammo has come. If you aren’t hitting at 800, let alone 600, then handloading isn’t going to help you.

I really wish fucking people would stop recommending handloading to shooters who don’t have a solid grasp of the fundamentals or have adequate experience behind the glass, especially when you can run factory ammo at 1,000yds all day long. All it does is set them up for failure.

Hammer down your fundamentals. If you haven’t hit past 600 with a 6.5, then it’s most likely your fundamentals and not the rifle. Factory R700 308s easily run out to 800 on FGMM so there’s zero reason a better performing caliber can’t do it out of that rifle.

800 and in misses are predominantly shooter error, due to lack of fundamentals and wind reading experience. With the proper fundamentals and wind experience, you can easily run 77gr 5.56 at 800yds, so 6.5/308/whatever shouldn’t be an issue.

Learn to read mirage for wind (think of it like water flowing in a river/creek), get a good ballistics app (BallisticsARC) with a weather flow meter (you now have accurate environmental data paired with an excellent ballistics app so you shouldn’t have any problem with a second round (elevation) hit* and the ability to easily true your data, grab a data book (impact data books’ modular data book - hell even a notepad works or free data book pages printed online), and practice your fundamentals through dry firing, dummy rounds, and recording yourself while doing the above and while at the range. Record your data, document your results and self-critiques, and keep track of your maintenance/cleaning/ammo performance.

However, if you don’t have confidence in your system (even if it isn’t warranted), that can lead to a lack in performance. If that’s the case, and you’re hellbent on buying a new rig, check out Area 419 for a custom barreled action (1/2MOA guarantee) and throw it in a KRG chassis. You’ll be under budget and might get close to your weight goal. You could also just grab a used AI AT folder in the PX (or a Demo on EuroOptic) for waaaayyyyyyy cheaper and it will last you a lifetime in any environment.

Great job on glass choice, that will last you a lifetime. A bit overkill on the magnification for your intended goals, but you don’t have to worry about it breaking when you drop your rifle or band it against the environment lol. If you want to shed weight and size, look at the 4-16x F1. You’d have more than enough to work past 1,000yds and you’ll have a great FOV at closer distances for hunting.

Lastly, if you’re shooting off Of a bench, get off and get prone. If you’re on bipod, take em off and shoot off of a pack. If you don’t have a pack, then fill up some sandbags and shoot off of them. Take as many factors out of your equation as possible. If you don’t have a fundamentals cheat sheet, then make one. Laminate it and put it next to your firing position. Say each of them to yourself before each shot. If you’re unsure of the fundamentals, then reach out to whoever you took a “sniper” course with and ask the instructor to send you a cheat sheet/list. If they aren’t willing, then shoot me a message and I’ll send you a cheat sheet.

Best of luck and I hope this helped. If you have any questions let me know and I’ll help the best I can.


*2nd rd hits should never be the goal, but rather I use this as an example of finding your elevation data for the specific yard-line, should you not already have it. Spoiler rounds should never be encouraged nor should they be acceptable to any shooter.

This is the best response on this thread!! Read it , then read it again and then flag it to refer to it in the future!!

 

[Who?Me?]

I just acquired a JHR in 6.5 CM...I love it... I, too, started out with a Gen II RPR...Honestly, so far at least, the JHR is 'only' slightly more accurate than my RPR...But, 1. it is lighter. 2. The Nucleus Action is much smoother. 3. I like the ergonomics of the JHR (KRG Bravo chassis) better. 3. The Rock Creek barrel seems to be more 'stable'...By that, it doesn't seem to be affected by 'heating up' and perhaps 'walking' rounds when 'hot'... I'm still putting the first couple hundred rounds through it and I understand the JHR will improve with a few more rounds. Bottom line. The JHR gives me all I want or need...Perhaps with practise, I will go from .5 MOA accuracy to .25MOA... I really don't care... I'm too old to get into reloading again, so that may not be possible...Lol Oh, the JHR does NOT have a folding stock...And, that is fine with me...I too, spent the big $$$ on optics...NF ATACR 5-25. I will only have one rifle and can move that scope to whatever I own...I have lots of room to shoot and plan to stretch out...Steel, varmints, etc...No PRS or big game... Those days are over for me...JMHO...(I must admit I spent more$$$ on the RPR...Timney trigger. MB, better bolt shroud, and Magpul stock...So, I ended up most likely spending as much on the RPR as I did on the JHR...Live and learn...I don't regret it, the RPR shoots lights out...It just wasn't the 'rifle' I wanted to end up with... (Oh, I did add a Geiselle 2 stage trigger to my JHR...Lol) Now, I need to order more ammo!!!

great comparison b/w your RPR and the JHR- those details really help me understand pros/cons and cost/benefit ratio

 

[Who?Me?]

First let me get this out of the way. After reading about AI’s here for years I finally was able to buy one. I’m a fan boi. I only own one centerfire bolt gun. It’s an AI AT with AX stock and I shoot .308.

I wouldn't say they’re more accurate than others mentioned here. With an AI I would expect a sub MOA rifle. I would label mine as a 1/2 MOA rifle with factory ammo. I’ve shot a 1/4 MOA 3 shot group with a barrel I bought used with 1K rds through it. I’m not a 1/2 MOA shooter. My 10 shot groups tend to hover right at or just under MOA. But when I miss I have confidence it was me. Not my rifle throwing a weird flier.

AI’s are a system. The action is epoxied to the chassis. They are designed as a war worthy target rifle. They’re consistent.

Post ‘14 rifles have a quick change barrel system that is rock solid. Barrel swaps take under a minute and return zero if torqued properly.

Short action AX’s and AT’s use AW mags which are arguably the best bolt action mag made. And they allow for a a COAL of up to 2.94” or so.

They are 6 lug 60 degree actions. They’re very smooth but the bolt lift is heavy. Their safety is a bolt shroud mounted 3 position that blocks the firing pin.

They’re easy to maintain in the field with minimal tools. I can strip my rifle down to the bare chassis and action with a 2mm and 4mm hex wrench. Bolts, barrels, and triggers can be swapped in the field. Easily.

Now to the downsides. They’re heavy. I think a bare AT is about 13-14lbs. You’re stuck with the factory pistol grip. Factory spare parts like bolts, firing pins, and triggers are expensive. And can be hard to come by.
ETA: pic is the first 5rd group from my rifle. The 14th-19th rds fired while sighting it in with no special break in.

Thx luvman- those are the details I need to know about the AI
-And your 5 round group in the early stages of shooing is impressive. A little low of the bullseye, but it is CONSISTENT!

 

[Who?Me?]

The ohn Hancock Rifle would fit your needs well. The problem is they are not immediately available. But this one is https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...triot-valley-jh-308-w-nucleus-action.6949323/

THX FOR THE TIP, will sleep on it. And like you said- no turnaround time- I read that some guys waited over a freakin' year for theirs before Josh went FTE with PVA!! I just couldn't do that- not for something I am drooling for ....

 

[Long Range 338]

THX FOR THE TIP, will sleep on it. And like you said- no turnaround time- I read that some guys waited over a freakin' year for theirs before Josh went FTE with PVA!! I just couldn't do that- not for something I am drooling for ....

There was also a JHR in 6 Creedmoor for sale in the PX. Just a barreled action without a stock/chassis. Would be an excellent candidate to drop in an AICS and rock & roll. You should buy it before I can't stop myself any longer!

 

[abn31c]

Still interesting to me that the bedding/chassis was unsound. MPA touts such high quality that I would think it would take a 3/4 ton truck to drive over it to disengage the action from the chassis/bedding.

Just my experience. My smith said they bed every chasis that comes outta their shop. His results are hard to argue with. If you look in the chasis there is very little purchase area for the action. I'm certainly not the only one to bed a chasis.

 

[Who?Me?]

Keep your current setup and find factory ammo that your system likes. It’s 2019 and there’s zero reason to push a new shooter into reloading, especially with how far factory match ammo has come. If you aren’t hitting at 800, let alone 600, then handloading isn’t going to help you.

I really wish fucking people would stop recommending handloading to shooters who don’t have a solid grasp of the fundamentals or have adequate experience behind the glass, especially when you can run factory ammo at 1,000yds all day long. All it does is set them up for failure.

Hammer down your fundamentals. If you haven’t hit past 600 with a 6.5, then it’s most likely your fundamentals and not the rifle. Factory R700 308s easily run out to 800 on FGMM so there’s zero reason a better performing caliber can’t do it out of that rifle.

800 and in misses are predominantly shooter error, due to lack of fundamentals and wind reading experience. With the proper fundamentals and wind experience, you can easily run 77gr 5.56 at 800yds, so 6.5/308/whatever shouldn’t be an issue.

Learn to read mirage for wind (think of it like water flowing in a river/creek), get a good ballistics app (BallisticsARC) with a weather flow meter (you now have accurate environmental data paired with an excellent ballistics app so you shouldn’t have any problem with a second round (elevation) hit* and the ability to easily true your data, grab a data book (impact data books’ modular data book - hell even a notepad works or free data book pages printed online), and practice your fundamentals through dry firing, dummy rounds, and recording yourself while doing the above and while at the range. Record your data, document your results and self-critiques, and keep track of your maintenance/cleaning/ammo performance.

However, if you don’t have confidence in your system (even if it isn’t warranted), that can lead to a lack in performance. If that’s the case, and you’re hellbent on buying a new rig, check out Area 419 for a custom barreled action (1/2MOA guarantee) and throw it in a KRG chassis. You’ll be under budget and might get close to your weight goal. You could also just grab a used AI AT folder in the PX (or a Demo on EuroOptic) for waaaayyyyyyy cheaper and it will last you a lifetime in any environment.

Great job on glass choice, that will last you a lifetime. A bit overkill on the magnification for your intended goals, but you don’t have to worry about it breaking when you drop your rifle or band it against the environment lol. If you want to shed weight and size, look at the 4-16x F1. You’d have more than enough to work past 1,000yds and you’ll have a great FOV at closer distances for hunting.

Lastly, if you’re shooting off Of a bench, get off and get prone. If you’re on bipod, take em off and shoot off of a pack. If you don’t have a pack, then fill up some sandbags and shoot off of them. Take as many factors out of your equation as possible. If you don’t have a fundamentals cheat sheet, then make one. Laminate it and put it next to your firing position. Say each of them to yourself before each shot. If you’re unsure of the fundamentals, then reach out to whoever you took a “sniper” course with and ask the instructor to send you a cheat sheet/list. If they aren’t willing, then shoot me a message and I’ll send you a cheat sheet.

Best of luck and I hope this helped. If you have any questions let me know and I’ll help the best I can.


*2nd rd hits should never be the goal, but rather I use this as an example of finding your elevation data for the specific yard-line, should you not already have it. Spoiler rounds should never be encouraged nor should they be acceptable to any shooter.

Thx for stepping up and offering a different perspective. And you feel strongly about it- from experience- that's a plus.

Im open to any ideas that help. FGMM- OK, looked itup, now understand what you mean. Trust me, Im in no rush for hand-loading, But I will use it when I get to that point- after trying FGMM, etc.
Also, just to clarify, Ive hit 588 yds. Its not that I didn't hit 600 or 800 yards- its that I didn't even try. I mean, before the 588 yds, my longest was 100-200 yards. Im in CA, so you know the drill- very few long range ranges open to the public, and they are hours away. Im working on that.

"Hammer down your fundamentals. If you haven’t hit past 600 with a 6.5, then it’s most likely your fundamentals and not the rifle. Factory R700 308s easily run out to 800 on FGMM so there’s zero reason a better performing caliber can’t do it out of that rifle."
Good to know. fundamentals are an ongoing objective - I know that. Im setting a goal to shoot 3x/week. Dry firing, check. Ive been lying on my shooing mat in the mornings for a few minutes just to get behind the glass/barrel. the more the better- muscle memory, etc.

"77gr 5.56 at 800yds, so 6.5/308/whatever shouldn’t be an issue."
that little sh*t round can do that????????

"get a good ballistics app (BallisticsARC) with a weather flow meter (you now have accurate environmental data paired with an excellent ballistics app so you shouldn’t have any problem with a second round (elevation) hit* and the ability to easily true your data, grab a data book (impact data books’ modular data book - and keep track of your maintenance/cleaning/ammo performance."
yes, I will soon be in the market for this App and weather flow meter- I assume I can put it on m phone and use in the field/range.
Again, open to suggestions. Im willing to spend a little more to get it right the first time- Sportsmans Warehouse is getting tired of me returning all their sh*t! lol

"check out Area 419 for a custom barreled action (1/2MOA guarantee) and throw it in a KRG chassis. You’ll be under budget and might get close to your weight goal. You could also just grab a used AI AT folder in the PX (or a Demo on EuroOptic) for waaaayyyyyyy cheaper and it will last you a lifetime in any environment."
Concrete examples- perfect

"Lastly, if you’re shooting off Of a bench, get off and get prone. If you’re on bipod, take em off and shoot off of a pack. If you don’t have a pack, then fill up some sandbags and shoot off of them. Take as many factors out of your equation as possible. If you don’t have a fundamentals cheat sheet, then make one. Laminate it and put it next to your firing position. Say each of them to yourself before each shot. If you’re unsure of the fundamentals, then reach out to whoever you took a “sniper” course with and ask the instructor to send you a cheat sheet/list."
I'm shooting prone, 95% with bipod, but Im getting tired of that thing. Will do more on a backpack

"If you have any questions let me know and I’ll help the best I can."
Be careful for what you ask for! lol

 

[Who?Me?]

I would say the customs marginaly better due to the fact that the size of the barrel are more rigid and the actions are more precise. Two of my customs are M24 24” contours. The RPR barrel is limited in diameter because it uses an AR15 based barrel nut. Barrel quality, rifle platform and a great scope are only starting points. The weapon and ammo need to be the best you can assemble, they become constant factors. The guy behind the weapon and conditions are the variables. Your skill set grows along with a good work program and you become the last constant. Then conditions are the last and only variable to deal with.
This was taught to me by folks that were on military shooting teams as I shot on our state high power teams back in the day. I still use these skills today for F/ TR and FPR competion. They have served me well. You’ll do fine.

Good point about the limit of the RPR barrel-dint know that. I mean, some people kept telling me that there was essentially "no difference" b/w my stock RPR and a custom rifle. I have a hard time believing that. There must be SOME difference, obviously.
Those are the details that will help me.

"The RPR barrel is limited in diameter because it uses an AR15 based barrel nut. Barrel quality, rifle platform and a great scope are only starting points. The weapon and ammo need to be the best you can assemble, they become constant factors."
That is what I am going for- the best rifle I can assemble within a reasonable budget. Im not a pro shooter- I need the rifles help until my skills grow and match the quality of the firearm I am using.

 

[Who?Me?]

Re- barrel the RPR action, get a carbon fiber chassis (XLR or other) and start handloading your own ammo.

A 20" barrel will suffice under 500 yds and save some weight.

Thx, what do you like about the XLR's? which have you tried.

do you mean 500 yds with a 6.5 or 3.08?

 

[Who?Me?]

I’m surprised you are planning on using that scope for hunting due to the high minimum power and the resulting low field of view. At 7x, the fov at 100 yards is less than 15 feet, which limits speed in making shots of opportunity with game on the move. I’ve always heard that a hunting scope should have a minimum power of 4x or preferably less. At 3x, the fov is more than 40 feet.

Hunting is down the road, Im not planning on using the 7-35 F1 ATACR for hunting.
But it certainly would make it challenging!

 

[garandman]

Thx, what do you like about the XLR's? which have you tried.

I 've owned 4 at various times, 2 presently, and would own 3 now *if* XLR made a CZ457 chassis. Currently own these: Element and Evolution

Widely easily, adjustable LoP, both thru sliding the stock body up the AR style buffer tube, and even a shorter buffer tube being available. I like super short LoP.

Mlok rail system, options as far as the handguard (open vs. closed) Carbon chassis options, front spigot rail etc.

Tho lots of chassis can do much of that. But not for the reasonable XLR prices.

do you mean 500 yds with a 6.5 or 3.08?

Both will easily reach 500 yds. 308 will get you LOTS of factory match ammo choices, if you don't want to get into hand laoding just yet. 6.5 CM gives you moreroom to grow... tho a 20-22" bbl will limit you some what at 1000 yds + as far as bullet trajectory.

 

[Who?Me?]

Good point. Definitely overkill for someone who predominantly is working inside of 500 and even 1000. The ATACR 4-16 would be a good move for the better FOV without worrying about reliability.

However the biggest issue present is with his lack of fundamentals and wind reading, not his equipment. Unless something isn’t torqued/installed correctly or there’s a quality control defect, he shouldn’t be missing at that distance.

Too many variables that can’t be addressed without hands on to know for sure.

As stated above, "Hunting is down the road, Im not planning on using the 7-35 F1 ATACR for hunting.
But it certainly would make it challenging!

The training videos here have really helped me. I thought I was pretty good, but I was an iron sights competitor. When I started using a scope, I wasn’t adjusting the diopter to focus on the reticle instead of the target, nor adjusting parallax for sighting in in the manner described in the videos. Nor was I dialing more than an inch off the target dot when shooting groups to prevent the target dot from changing in size and position due to impacts. And I’m not done. I have many more videos to watch.

Cool, Im looking forward to the vids. I signed up too- about 3 weeks ago- but have only watched one video.
I want to go thru them 1x1 as well

 

[M8541Reaper]

"If you have any questions let me know and I’ll help the best I can."
Be careful for what you ask for! lol

I’m always willing to help those who are willing to learn. I used to teach but l now move every couple of years so I never bothered getting all that going again.

 

[TSpork]

Thx for stepping up and offering a different perspective. And you feel strongly about it- from experience- that's a plus.

Im open to any ideas that help. FGMM- OK, looked itup, now understand what you mean. Trust me, Im in no rush for hand-loading, But I will use it when I get to that point- after trying FGMM, etc.
Also, just to clarify, Ive hit 588 yds. Its not that I didn't hit 600 or 800 yards- its that I didn't even try. I mean, before the 588 yds, my longest was 100-200 yards. Im in CA, so you know the drill- very few long range ranges open to the public, and they are hours away. Im working on that.

"Hammer down your fundamentals. If you haven’t hit past 600 with a 6.5, then it’s most likely your fundamentals and not the rifle. Factory R700 308s easily run out to 800 on FGMM so there’s zero reason a better performing caliber can’t do it out of that rifle."
Good to know. fundamentals are an ongoing objective - I know that. Im setting a goal to shoot 3x/week. Dry firing, check. Ive been lying on my shooing mat in the mornings for a few minutes just to get behind the glass/barrel. the more the better- muscle memory, etc.

"77gr 5.56 at 800yds, so 6.5/308/whatever shouldn’t be an issue."
that little sh*t round can do that????????

"get a good ballistics app (BallisticsARC) with a weather flow meter (you now have accurate environmental data paired with an excellent ballistics app so you shouldn’t have any problem with a second round (elevation) hit* and the ability to easily true your data, grab a data book (impact data books’ modular data book - and keep track of your maintenance/cleaning/ammo performance."
yes, I will soon be in the market for this App and weather flow meter- I assume I can put it on m phone and use in the field/range.
Again, open to suggestions. Im willing to spend a little more to get it right the first time- Sportsmans Warehouse is getting tired of me returning all their sh*t! lol

"check out Area 419 for a custom barreled action (1/2MOA guarantee) and throw it in a KRG chassis. You’ll be under budget and might get close to your weight goal. You could also just grab a used AI AT folder in the PX (or a Demo on EuroOptic) for waaaayyyyyyy cheaper and it will last you a lifetime in any environment."
Concrete examples- perfect

"Lastly, if you’re shooting off Of a bench, get off and get prone. If you’re on bipod, take em off and shoot off of a pack. If you don’t have a pack, then fill up some sandbags and shoot off of them. Take as many factors out of your equation as possible. If you don’t have a fundamentals cheat sheet, then make one. Laminate it and put it next to your firing position. Say each of them to yourself before each shot. If you’re unsure of the fundamentals, then reach out to whoever you took a “sniper” course with and ask the instructor to send you a cheat sheet/list."
I'm shooting prone, 95% with bipod, but Im getting tired of that thing. Will do more on a backpack

"If you have any questions let me know and I’ll help the best I can."
Be careful for what you ask for! lol

Where in CA are you located?

 

[Who?Me?]

Where in CA are you located?

I live near Santa Cruz near San Jose
Any suggestions?
When I ask around for long ranges at the gun shops, they say that there are unofficial long ranges on Private Properties, but you have to know the owners. But of course, I don’t know the owners.

 

[Luvman]

As stated above, "Hunting is down the road, Im not planning on using the 7-35 F1 ATACR for hunting.
But it certainly would make it challenging!


Cool, Im looking forward to the vids. I signed up too- about 3 weeks ago- but have only watched one video.
I want to go thru them 1x1 as well

@M8541Reaper has offered some very solid advice. NOTHING will replace trigger time and applying the fundamentals. Period.

If you want to drop money on a “better” rifle there’s a lot of solid advise as well

 

[TSpork]

I live near Santa Cruz near San Jose
Any suggestions?
When I ask around for long ranges at the gun shops, they say that there are unofficial long ranges on Private Properties, but you have to know the owners. But of course, I don’t know the owners.

I’m down in LA. I know some of my friends used to drive to Sac Valley, but in my opinion that’s pretty unreasonable just to shoot off some rounds for practice. I’ll hit them up and see where else is good

 

[Who?Me?]

thanks man, appreciate it. I actually took a 2 day LR course at the Sac Shooting Center, but only up to 200 yards.
they have a 1000 yard range there, but you have to be a member for a freakin year before they let you shoot on that 1000 yd range. crazy.
You from LA? a few weeks ago I was down there a few weeks ago for another 2 day LR course with ITTS out by the LA shooting range.

 

[hacabrera071]

THIS!!!!

I bought a $500 prefit barrel for my RPR and now it reall REALLY hammers!!

Completely agree! The RPR I have is a hammer all the way up to 1000 yards with custom-developed rounds (41.2gr of H4350 and Berger Hybrid bullets).

 

[Who?Me?]

Ruger has made some more of their RPRs in other calibre's, eg. 6.5 PRC and .300 PRC.
Both sound like bad-ass rounds.
Anyone have experience shooting a 6.5 PRC?
( I guess they still use a short action)

 

[uncle_smokey]

Thx Uncle, ya, good thing for you to stay married.
But I would like to see your spreadsheet, if you don't mind, either PM or post on the forum, whatever is most comfortable for you. I have no idea of the parts pieces that may be had at reasonable prices,. Your spreadsheet would give me a peak of what the costs are.
And also, how did you decide on a 22 barrel for the .260 Rem? Al at MPA told me not to go below 20" for 6.5 Cr to build up enough force and speed to keep the round fast- like 6.5 Cr are known for (2900 fps).
Thank You

60 Hybrid - Spartan Precision
Part	Brand	Model	On Hand	Ordered	Cost
Action	Defiance	Rebel S/A	Y		$1,145.00​
Barrel	Hawk Hill	Marksman 1:8 6.5 (256-264)	Y		$395.00​
Glass	S&B	PM2 3-20x50 MSR 2	Y		$2,155.48​
Rings/Mount	Hawkins Precision	Hybrid 34mm Low	Y		$135.00​
Stock	Manners	EH1A	Y		$651.72​
Bottom Metal	American Precision	M5 DBM	Y		$233.75​
Trigger	TriggerTech	Special	Y		$165.00​
Muzzle Brake	American Precision	Gen 1 Little Bastard	Y		$102.79​
Misc 1	Accurate Mag	10 rd 308	Y		$75.00​
Labor/Shipping	Spartan Precision				$970.00​
				Total	$6,028.74​
			Total w/o Glass/Mounts​	$3,738.26​

Hopefully the cut and paste job works. Totally doable to go sub-4K. As to barrel length, this is more of my SHTF bolt gun. My other 260 has a 25” barrel, but weighs like 6 pounds more. I should still get plenty of velocity to reach 1K+, while keeping it somewhat manageable. Hope this helps in your endeavors.

 

[Luvman]

60 Hybrid - Spartan Precision
Part	Brand	Model	On Hand	Ordered	Cost
Action	Defiance	Rebel S/A	Y		$1,145.00​
Barrel	Hawk Hill	Marksman 1:8 6.5 (256-264)	Y		$395.00​
Glass	S&B	PM2 3-20x50 MSR 2	Y		$2,155.48​
Rings/Mount	Hawkins Precision	Hybrid 34mm Low	Y		$135.00​
Stock	Manners	EH1A	Y		$651.72​
Bottom Metal	American Precision	M5 DBM	Y		$233.75​
Trigger	TriggerTech	Special	Y		$165.00​
Muzzle Brake	American Precision	Gen 1 Little Bastard	Y		$102.79​
Misc 1	Accurate Mag	10 rd 308	Y		$75.00​
Labor/Shipping	Spartan Precision				$970.00​
				Total	$6,028.74​
			Total w/o Glass/Mounts​	$3,738.26​

Hopefully the cut and paste job works. Totally doable to go sub-4K. As to barrel length, this is more of my SHTF bolt gun. My other 260 has a 25” barrel, but weighs like 6 pounds more. I should still get plenty of velocity to reach 1K+, while keeping it somewhat manageable. Hope this helps in your endeavors.

Where does one get a S&B 3-20x50 with MSR2 for 2155.48?????

 

[uncle_smokey]

Where does one get a S&B 3-20x50 with MSR2 for 2155.48?????

I was dicking around Euro Optic a few weeks ago and they were blowing them out I guess. I don’t even really care for dot reticles, but couldn’t pass it up. If you happen to have a TT315 with Gen2XR laying around we could work something out ?.

 

[Who?Me?]

60 Hybrid - Spartan Precision
Part	Brand	Model	On Hand	Ordered	Cost
Action	Defiance	Rebel S/A	Y		$1,145.00​
Barrel	Hawk Hill	Marksman 1:8 6.5 (256-264)	Y		$395.00​
Glass	S&B	PM2 3-20x50 MSR 2	Y		$2,155.48​
Rings/Mount	Hawkins Precision	Hybrid 34mm Low	Y		$135.00​
Stock	Manners	EH1A	Y		$651.72​
Bottom Metal	American Precision	M5 DBM	Y		$233.75​
Trigger	TriggerTech	Special	Y		$165.00​
Muzzle Brake	American Precision	Gen 1 Little Bastard	Y		$102.79​
Misc 1	Accurate Mag	10 rd 308	Y		$75.00​
Labor/Shipping	Spartan Precision				$970.00​
				Total	$6,028.74​
			Total w/o Glass/Mounts​	$3,738.26​

Hopefully the cut and paste job works. Totally doable to go sub-4K. As to barrel length, this is more of my SHTF bolt gun. My other 260 has a 25” barrel, but weighs like 6 pounds more. I should still get plenty of velocity to reach 1K+, while keeping it somewhat manageable. Hope this helps in your endeavors.

You've got a really nice action there- looks like its about 1/3 of your budget. Ive heard those brands- Hawk Hill, Defiance, etc.
Looks great with the S & B. I like my NF, but if I did it again, Id go for a S&B. I looked through a friends S&B, and the glass is SOOO good, better than NF- more lifelike, better contrast to make objects pop out a lil more.

 

[Drdave79]

If going custom go with a impact action and can get a prefit barrel from a lot of good smiths, but I think you would be better off spending the money on ammo wearing out the barrel on the rpr. Take a few classes and practice, no substitute for trigger time!

 

[Long Range 338]

Don't worry about that pesky John Hancock Rifle in 6CM, some bastard bought it....

 

[CATM15]

I love my BigHorn TL3 action. Barrel swapping takes 5mins (if that). I can buy prefit barrels without sending in my action and they ship to my door. Drops into anything R700 footprint with no issues. Action is smooth and has control round feed and mechanical ejection. I will probably only buy this action from now on to keep things the same. Depending on what stock you want you can be into that for under 4K

 

[pewpewfever]

Ruger has made some more of their RPRs in other calibre's, eg. 6.5 PRC and .300 PRC.
Both sound like bad-ass rounds.
Anyone have experience shooting a 6.5 PRC?
( I guess they still use a short action)

I asked about PRC recently and the general concensus was that it is good for hunting but not for competition. Too much recoil was the main factor iirc.

Here is one of those “what the pros use” surveys on rifle caliber. There’s a lot of criticism about paying too much attention to what pros use, especially brands, because they are given free stuff by sponsors. But I think rifle caliber is not like brands. The recoil and ballistics are too important.

Rifle Caliber – What The Pros Use

Welcome to “What The Pros Use” 2018 Edition! I recently surveyed the top ranked shooters in both the...

precisionrifleblog.com

I read another article on barrel length that reported mv for different calibers and barrel lengths. The 6.5 creedmoor needs 26-28 inches for max mv, so that’s a 24 inch barrel plus a 2 inch brake, or a 20 or 22 inch barrel plus a 4 or six inch suppressor. You could maybe go a couple of inches shorter, but it will drop your mv significantly. Any more than that, and what’s the point? For 6mm, a total of 28-30 inches is needed.