Help with stubborn dog, paging Bogey

[Black max]

Looking for help from the knowledge pool that is ever present here on the hide. I have a six month old Black Mouth Cur and she is stubborn as hell. She will sit, shake, lay down and all the usual but has a mind of her own. When she was younger she was never kept on a chain and always stayed close. That all ended about 1.5 months ago when she would run off and completely ignore me when called. She is now always on a chain or leash when outside except when at the farm where she runs free. She has also developed a jumping and biting problem, while its just playful I don't like it and don't want her doing. Long story short this little bitch doesn't listen to a damn thing I say and looks at me like I'm crazy when given commands if I don't have some kind of treat or reward for her, I'm think about a shock collar but have read mixed reviews on them. Please help before I take her for a "ride".

 

[WATERWALKER]

Shock collars do work. Test the intensity of the shock collar before placing around the dog's neck. Usually a setting of "3" will work. That's on a 1-10 dial. There should be a button on the remote zapper that will send a signal (like a preparatory command) to the dog letting it know to "pay attention, here comes a command." If the dog doesn't listen it gets a small shock. You don't have to yell & scream at the dog w/ the shock collar. Think of this as a simple "do as your told or you'll get lit up' type scenario. When the dog follows your command, or obeys orders give it a treat & praise the dog in a playful tone.

I'm not a professional dog trainer but this worked well at my house. We also used an electronic perimeter fence. They get to learn their boundaries quickly.

 

[Maggot]

Shock collars do work. Test the intensity of the shock collar before placing around the dog's neck. Usually a setting of "3" will work. That's on a 1-10 dial. There should be a button on the remote zapper that will send a signal (like a preparatory command) to the dog letting it know to "pay attention, here comes a command." If the dog doesn't listen it gets a small shock. You don't have to yell & scream at the dog w/ the shock collar. Think of this as a simple "do as your told or you'll get lit up' type scenario. When the dog follows your command, or obeys orders give it a treat & praise the dog in a playful tone.

I'm not a professional dog trainer but this worked well at my house. We also used an electronic perimeter fence. They get to learn their boundaries quickly.

You would do better to find out why the behavior change. Is it common in that breed. It is in wolves. They can be great companions but at around 3-4 years old they often develop a very independent nature. I suspect in wolves its just nature calling and they want to run. My older bitch, Nikita, is the sweetest thing, loves to be around me and the house, but give her a razors edge opportunity to get out and run and she will, and wont comeback til shes ready.

On the other hand, it could be something in her environment. Talk to someone who 'raises' that type of critter. They should give you some insights.

 

[bogeybrown]

Looking for help from the knowledge pool that is ever present here on the hide. I have a six month old Black Mouth Cur and she is stubborn as hell. She will sit, shake, lay down and all the usual but has a mind of her own. When she was younger she was never kept on a chain and always stayed close. That all ended about 1.5 months ago when she would run off and completely ignore me when called. She is now always on a chain or leash when outside except when at the farm where she runs free. She has also developed a jumping and biting problem, while its just playful I don't like it and don't want her doing. Long story short this little bitch doesn't listen to a damn thing I say and looks at me like I'm crazy when given commands if I don't have some kind of treat or reward for her, I'm think about a shock collar but have read mixed reviews on them. Please help before I take her for a "ride".

It sounds like a lot of what you're dealing with is that your chosen pet is doing exactly what it was created to do. I knew the guy credited with the creation of the Black Mouth Cur and have been to his kennels and hunted with his dogs. Those dogs are hard-headed game-driven HUNTERS. I owned one and never attempted to make it a "pet". It lived like a hunting dog. As many BMC's as I hear about these days, I'm sure the drives have diminished in some of the lines, but they were basically created to be single-minded assholes.
All ive got for you is the basics: rapport, clear communication, and consistency but you've likely got your hands full. How's that for me totally copping out?

I've got to certify on a dog tomorrow that I've never even seen a picture of much less worked, so I'll likely shit the bed on that one and turn in my "K9 card".

 

[Rthur]

Shock collars do work. Test the intensity of the shock collar before placing around the dog's neck. Usually a setting of "3" will work. That's on a 1-10 dial. There should be a button on the remote zapper that will send a signal (like a preparatory command) to the dog letting it know to "pay attention, here comes a command." If the dog doesn't listen it gets a small shock. You don't have to yell & scream at the dog w/ the shock collar. Think of this as a simple "do as your told or you'll get lit up' type scenario. When the dog follows your command, or obeys orders give it a treat & praise the dog in a playful tone.

I'm not a professional dog trainer but this worked well at my house. We also used an electronic perimeter fence. They get to learn their boundaries quickly.

Off topic but this isn't a bad plan for the wife or kids either.

R

 

[bogeybrown]

Off topic but this isn't a bad plan for the wife or kids either.

R

The similarities are certainly there. Behavior modification and reinforcement is basically the same, regardless of species.

 

[1J04]

Looking for help from the knowledge pool that is ever present here on the hide. I have a six month old Black Mouth Cur and she is stubborn as hell. She will sit, shake, lay down and all the usual but has a mind of her own. When she was younger she was never kept on a chain and always stayed close. That all ended about 1.5 months ago when she would run off and completely ignore me when called. She is now always on a chain or leash when outside except when at the farm where she runs free. She has also developed a jumping and biting problem, while its just playful I don't like it and don't want her doing. Long story short this little bitch doesn't listen to a damn thing I say and looks at me like I'm crazy when given commands if I don't have some kind of treat or reward for her, I'm think about a shock collar but have read mixed reviews on them. Please help before I take her for a "ride".

Good luck with that Brother. Cur's are fucking assholes. Born and Bred assholes. I don't have a good pic cuz I dumped all the shit outta my phone, but this is Bella (Mt Cur) doing what she does. Nothing. Skull as thick as a Bowling Ball. Listen? Ya, that's not happening. EVER.

HA !! Found a Pic.

This is a Pig. Her name is Hairy. The Pig listens way better.

C'MON PIG. LET'S GO.

 

[maxfly]

The electric collar must be used with known commands. They are taught with the dog under control of a line lead. First teach sit. Then here. Then heal. You teach each command first with some pressure used by the lead. Once these are taught, then introduce the collar. The dog learns to "turn off" the stimulation by obeying the command.
The dog will not understand the stimulation unless it is first taught.

 

[SubOptimal]

Jump and bite (play nip) is part of normal dog behavior. A knee to the stomach a few times, I take that back, every time is the solution. You shouldn't lift the dog off the ground but it should be unpleasant.
As to the running away stuff, there is no cure for it, dogs will run. Getting them back? Sometimes, reward training will do it. Start in a small confined area. Let the dog run a bit then call it. If it comes over to you, reward it, if not, ignore it and make as if to walk away. If it comes to you as you are leaving, it knows you were around but chose not to respond, don't reward except may a pat on the head. There are some dogs that won't respond to that training but very few.
I have never met a hunter breed that wasn't a bit hard headed. An obedience school that you BOTH attend would probably give the fastest results.
Rule #1. Physical punishment rarely works, all it will do is make your dog fear you and even more reluctant to return. Be consistent. Dogs don't know their names but do recognize nuance of tone and volume. Most dogs I know think their names are "Stop That", "Goddamnit" or some variation of that. That is why, when choosing a pet, I stick to cats.

 

[2ndamendfan]

Good luck with that Brother. Cur's are fucking assholes. Born and Bred assholes. I don't have a good pic cuz I dumped all the shit outta my phone, but this is Bella (Mt Cur) doing what she does. Nothing. Skull as thick as a Bowling Ball. Listen? Ya, that's not happening. EVER.

HA !! Found a Pic.

This is a Pig. Her name is Hairy. The Pig listens way better.

C'MON PIG. LET'S GO.

Post of the day right there.

 

[2ndamendfan]

I have posted my thoughts on such matters before. In my experience with a similar dog, shock collars work.

As has been mentioned, you can't put one on and tell her a command she has never heard and expect her to know what the fuck you mean.

Also you can't turn her into a "lap dog" if you know what i mean.

 

[1J04]

I have posted my thoughts on such matters before. In my experience with a similar dog, shock collars work.

As has been mentioned, you can't put one on and tell her a command she has never heard and expect her to know what the fuck you mean.

Also you can't turn her into a "lap dog" if you know what i mean.

?

 

[Black max]

Thanks for everybody's input. I will try the shock collar and report back after I've had some time with it.

 

[2ndamendfan]

?

That is not the "lap dog" I was thinking of. My dumb ass couldn't spell Chawawa. Since I have no use for that type of dog, I am not about to learn either.

 

[1J04]

That is not the "lap dog" I was thinking of. My dumb ass couldn't spell Chawawa. Since I have no use for that type of dog, I am not about to learn either.

Hey !! C'mon man. Let's try and stay on topic ok. Geezus H. wtf?

 

[supercorndogs]

How much exercise does the dog get. Curs , Labs, Shepards, are all working dogs. They need work and exercise beyond what most people can provide. I have a boxer/lab or possible Cur slash something cross. He was a runner when we got him from the pound. He has one hell of a pray drive, so I taught him to fetch. Or at least chase a ball and if he drops it around me he gets to chase it again.[took enough time to teach him to fetch it made me wonder about the lab in him] So now when I call his name he has a reason to look for me. Once he is looking I started teaching other commands.

One day before I started with him, we let him loose at the creek and he would not come back. I tried all the normal stuff I do with labs, but nothing. Then as he tried to run from me. my girlfriend ran down a steep bank and drop kicked his ass into the creek. Like both feet in the air baseball slide. Splash and grab.

That was all about four years ago. Took some time teach him when we were walking we were working together.

I never give them unsupervised field time. Too much time to develop bad habits. She is going on farm time all the time. My dog has escaped from the yard one time now. We were out of town and he was left out during a lightning storm. He escaped from the backyard to sit on the front porch.

Stay patient and put in the work and it will work out well. Remember when you get frustrated and angry, it makes the dog feel confused and nervous. If you foster a relationship where the dog looks to you for leadership, it forms a very fulfilling relationship with the dog.

 

[_Windrider_]

There is a good trainer outside Lexington, KY. His name is Stonnie Dennis. He also has a YouTube channel. I highly recommend him. I would recommend doing one of his board and train programs. He will fix it I guarantee it.

If if you have never used an ecollar, there is another you tube guy (very well known around the world) named Jeff Gelman. He's kinda weird and I'm convinced he is a cross dresser but he gets results. He has some good tutorials on ecollar work. I use an ecollar on both my labs. But it is not a punishment and that is critical. NEVER use it to punish a dog. It will backfire.

 

[Black max]

Good luck with that Brother. Cur's are fucking assholes. Born and Bred assholes. I don't have a good pic cuz I dumped all the shit outta my phone, but this is Bella (Mt Cur) doing what she does. Nothing. Skull as thick as a Bowling Ball. Listen? Ya, that's not happening. EVER.

HA !! Found a Pic.

This is a Pig. Her name is Hairy. The Pig listens way better.

C'MON PIG. LET'S GO.

She looks like she could be Bella's pup. Hard head isn't the word for this little bitch. I'm going to work with her and a shock collar. If she doesn't start acting right she will spend the rest of her days on my buddies farm. Not trying to make her a lap dog, just want her to listen and not be such an ass.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

[Black max]

She looks like she could be Bella's pup. Hard head isn't the word for this little bitch. I'm going to work with her and a shock collar. If she doesn't start acting right she will spend the rest of her days on my buddies farm. Not trying to make her a lap dog, just want her to listen and not be such an ass.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

I really appreciate all the suggestions fellas. I don't live far from Lexington so I'll look into that training. She/we get quite a bit of exercise. 0400 wake up call and a 2 mile walk every morning then she goes to work with me all day and sometimes fetch after.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

[308Gunner]

A long leash at least 25' that way when you work with her if she takes off you can correct bad habits start with simple commands and work your way

 

[_Windrider_]

I really appreciate all the suggestions fellas. I don't live far from Lexington so I'll look into that training. She/we get quite a bit of exercise. 0400 wake up call and a 2 mile walk every morning then she goes to work with me all day and sometimes fetch after.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Stonnie is awesome. He really takes pride in his training and he's a patriot.

 

[Maggot]

There is a good trainer outside Lexington, KY. His name is Stonnie Dennis. He also has a YouTube channel. I highly recommend him. I would recommend doing one of his board and train programs. He will fix it I guarantee it.

If if you have never used an ecollar, there is another you tube guy (very well known around the world) named Jeff Gelman. He's kinda weird and I'm convinced he is a cross dresser but he gets results. He has some good tutorials on ecollar work. I use an ecollar on both my labs. But it is not a punishment and that is critical. NEVER use it to punish a dog. It will backfire.

Thanks for that. I just watched 5 minutes of the first vid and he knows his shit. I think Im going to walk out an warn Cloud (my cub) the change is coming, LOL I think these methods should mostly work with wolves maybe just a bit more time. Im not sure they will ever get
stay'.

 

[vh20]

A long leash at least 25' that way when you work with her if she takes off you can correct bad habits start with simple commands and work your way

Untold millions of bird dogs have been broken from busting coveys with this method. Will work well in conjunction with the shock collar if you need it, but may obviate the need for one. The extra length lets them build up a little speed before they hit the end abruptly as the command is reinforced. "Whoa!" for a bird dog means, "Stop RIGHT THERE, RIGHT NOW." Every good one learns it, and they are extremely driven.

 

[_Windrider_]

Oh yeah. And a genuine Herm Springer pinch collar is mandatory. That combined with the long line work and collar will break most bad habits.

 

[knockemdown]

She looks more like a mountain cur than a BMC?

Anyway, yeah...curs tend to act like elitist assholes. Some might compare their attitude as more feline, than canine! If you don't have their respect, then you simply do not exist. And if you don't have anything they want, you don't exist, either. And if you are outside of their 'circle of trust', then you are similarly ignored. Given that, a cur dog damn sure ain't gonna obey someone who doesn't exist, LOL!!!

That said, cur dogs certainly are trainable! My cur is over 7yrs old now, we are bonded at the hip and he minds me well. Just giving you hope that you can 'fix' your pup! The strange thing is, contrary to their perceived 'hard headed' working nature, curs can be VERY sensitive to correction! Be very, very, very careful with corrections. Make absolutely sure your timing is perfect, and the level of correction is only as much as needed. This is true for training any breed, but cur dogs simply do not respond well to harsh correction, and can actually be broken (in a bad way)...

As a comparison, ol' timers would whip their hounds with a switch to correct them, and the hound would be none the worse for wear. But if you take that same physical approach with a cur, you'll be 'blacklisted'...that cur will NEVER trust you, again! Curs are not 'one track minded' like a block headed hound, they learn....and learn, FAST! You can even see that in how curs hunt. Unlike hounds who trail scent from footprint to footprint, good curs tend to 'think on their feet' and will figure out how to 'cheat' a track. Just sayin', you're not dealing with a dumb dog! Curs are problem solvers, so that can present a challenge when training them. That doesn't make training more difficult, it just behooves one to know the animal they are dealing with, so as to implement a training regiment tailored to their individual personality...

Please be mindful that if you go overboard and take your frustrations out during corrections, you can literally RUIN your cur pup. With that in mind, an e-collar is a 'life saver' as a training aid, as it removes YOU from the correction. But please educate yourself on when/how to use an e-collar, or find a good trainer who knows the nature of cur dogs! In that regard, keep talking to as many cur owners/breeders as possible. Confident you'll hear a similar opinion, and hopefully you'll find a trainer that can help...

I'm not a trainer either, but have a pretty good handle on my cur. He's a handful, but ya wouldn't think so if you met him. Feel free to PM, happy to share my experiences!

Beautiful dog, wishing you all the best!

 

[K-tech]

Please be mindful that if you go overboard and take your frustrations out during corrections, you can literally RUIN your cur pup. With that in mind, an e-collar is a 'life saver' as a training aid, as it removes YOU from the correction.

I can attest to this first hand, as a first time BMC owner I went a little too hard on my pup and it took weeks and weeks to rebuild the trust damaged. For example, I raise chickens and her being a BMC thought they were fair game. I caught her before she could kill any birds and whooped her, all that did was make her skittish around me and the minute I turned my back she was after the birds again. I ended up getting her a shock collar and I waited for a day she was after the chickens again and just as she was about to catch a bird, I nailed her with the e collar. From that point on, she understood chickens are off limits. Coons however, different story. She is just over a year old now and that dog is my dog, through and through. I'm the only one she listens to. It frustrates the wife to no end but whatever, I think it's kind of funny watching my BMC manipulate her like she's in charge

 

[Maggot]

Untold millions of bird dogs have been broken from busting coveys with this method. Will work well in conjunction with the shock collar if you need it, but may obviate the need for one. The extra length lets them build up a little speed before they hit the end abruptly as the command is reinforced. "Whoa!" for a bird dog means, "Stop RIGHT THERE, RIGHT NOW." Every good one learns it, and they are extremely driven.

zI was walking Nikita on a 30' leash and a rabbit popped up about 10 feet in front of us. She took off like a bullet and when she hit the end of the lead did a full reverse somersault. It was hilarious but Im glad she didnt break her own neck.

 

[RedRyder]

I have a buddy who is a doctor so you'd figure he's pretty smart.. One day he decided he wanted to know what a shock collar felt like. So he somehow put it around his neck and hit the button.

When he regained consciousness he was laying on the driveway and his wife was looking down at him. hehehehe

 

[ArmyJerry]

hahahahhahhahah

I have a buddy who is a doctor so you'd figure he's pretty smart.. One day he decided he wanted to know what a shock collar felt like. So he somehow put it around his neck and hit the button.

When he regained consciousness he was laying on the driveway and his wife was looking down at him. hehehehe

 

[pitdog85]

hey mate good luck with it, I have found with strong will dogs that exercise of great benefit. I have a properly bred American pitbull (not the 100lb mutts people call pitbulls) that has a drive and athletic ability like you wouldn't believe. She is worked twice a day usually a fast run on the bike for 7.5km and then a free run for an hour in the arvo around the farmlands. If I don't work her and just let her off around the house she will almost do backflips and climb trees!!!! Once she is worked her listening is 100% better. It sounds like you might have a dog with a bit of drive too. These kind of dogs are not for everyone and anyone getting a dog like this should be very aware of what they are getting into.

 

[sandwarrior]

It sounds like a lot of what you're dealing with is that your chosen pet is doing exactly what it was created to do. I knew the guy credited with the creation of the Black Mouth Cur and have been to his kennels and hunted with his dogs. Those dogs are hard-headed game-driven HUNTERS. I owned one and never attempted to make it a "pet". It lived like a hunting dog. As many BMC's as I hear about these days, I'm sure the drives have diminished in some of the lines, but they were basically created to be single-minded assholes.
All ive got for you is the basics: rapport, clear communication, and consistency but you've likely got your hands full. How's that for me totally copping out?

I've got to certify on a dog tomorrow that I've never even seen a picture of much less worked, so I'll likely shit the bed on that one and turn in my "K9 card".

You said it, I have a friend out in NV who has one for hunting cats and bears. NOT by any stretch of the imagination is she a pet. "Single-minded assholes" is about the best description I've heard for them.