HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot better

#54
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot be

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But wait!

If you call right now we'll DOUIBLE your order, that's right, two straightjackets for the low low price of $399.

</div></div>

Only if I can get both straightjackets installed on the same barrel .............then my rifle will shoot like a $6000 rifle !
smile.gif
 
#55
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot be

Simply amazing, where do these people crawl out of?? They gave up the secret that "when they get gov. contracts" so all we have to do is wait 5 years and buy them at the over run price of $49.99. I am waiting for the gen II myself.
 
#56
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot be

I have one of their very first custom sniper guns.

specs:
M77 action - $600
StraightJacket TITANIUM DELUXE sniper barrel - $699
Choate Ultimate Sniper stock, limited edition, signed by Maj. John Plaster - father of sniping - $priceless
CounterSniper 3.5-60X80 scope - $950
all custom painted "Red Tiger" - $450
fake silencer (real deal not legal in ca) - $300 from the local machine shop

squaring action, lapping lugs, etc... <span style="font-style: italic">completely unnecessary</span> so no gunsmith charges, which means I'm only into this for $2999, not counting the stock, which I only traded my decency for...


Untitled2.png
 
#57
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot be

OK, OK. I can't vouch for the product currently being roasted, and the idea of a forward discharging muzzle brake sounds awfully fishy to me.

But the idea of a sleeved, or better yet, sleeved and tensioned barrel is nether new to the accuracy game, nor ludicrous in the least. The link I cite above is testimony to the fact that the concept is serious and the product is available and although rather pricey (my research says around $700), does as advertized (by L-W, anyway).

BR shooters have been using sleeved, tensioned handmade barrels on rail guns and shooting truly ittybitty groups with them. In such guise they are massive and not readily portable. The L-W product goes a long way toward making it far more practical, and in fact hits that mark rather well, IMHO.

This version sounds 'interesting' but IMHO, it's not especially revolutionary, and I think their marketing guru really could do a better job of showcasing the advantages of their product.

As for their brake feature, I simply don't know what to say.

Naysayers, I suggest a more open mind.

Greg
 
#58
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot be

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, OK. I can't vouch for the product currently being roasted, and the idea of a forward discharging muzzle brake sounds awfully fishy to me.

But the idea of a sleeved, or better yet, sleeved and tensioned barrel is nether new to the accuracy game, nor ludicrous in the least. The link I cite above is testimony to the fact that the concept is serious and the product is available and although rather pricey (my research says around $700), does as advertized (by L-W, anyway).

BR shooters have been using sleeved, tensioned handmade barrels on rail guns and shooting truly ittybitty groups with them. In such guise they are massive and not readily portable. The L-W product goes a long way toward making it far more practical, and in fact hits that mark rather well, IMHO.

This version sounds 'interesting' but IMHO, it's not especially revolutionary, and I think their marketing guru really could do a better job of showcasing the advantages of their product.

As for their brake feature, I simply don't know what to say.

Naysayers, I suggest a more open mind.

Greg</div></div>

I'm glad I didn't say it first, but I was thinking it, despite their heinous advertising ploy. I figure that pretty obviously a heat sink is a heat sink. The only question is whether their design is a good heat sink. It would seem silly to sell a heat sink that didn't really dissipate heat, so I'll give them a pass on effectiveness there. Now, is heat a factor in shooting? Not to my rudimentary skillset, but maybe to someone else.

In terms of better accuracy being claimed as 70%, maybe what they should be marketing is something completely different like accuracy after burning 400 rnds quick like. Given what I've seen in some vids of M4's being melted down on purpose with different barrels, having the super-bestest-non-melting-can-still-hit-a-barn barrel has an untapped demographic?

My problem is with them is their marketing claims. I don't think you can claim a 70% increase in accuracy unless you are comparing ammunition to ammunition and put it in terms of "rejects found by first firing." Guns are too damn accurate, and ammo too little, to test different barrels with and come up with 70%. First, it would have to be indoors, and I am not seeing too many 300yd indoor ranges. The groups people can pull at 50 or 100 are too tight to be decreased by 70%. One sightly different projectile would overrule the variance. Now if someone like me performs the test and comes up with 70% better groupings, it would probably just be what I had for lunch not a magic barrel sleave. OTOH, if they shot a group, tore through 500 rnds and then fired a second group to measure the decline in performance, then I can see a meaningful 70% less decline from cold performance. Implying groups shrinking by 70% is just silly-talk.
 
#59
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot be

All I will say is to recommend folks actually read the L-W link I provided. I had some opportunity to discuss the subject with L-W folks back when the idea was in the testing stage, and I'd simply say that what they claim on their web site is probably rather conservative, both in terms of accuracy and of heat management. I just wish I could afford them myself, because I'd have them on all my guns if I could. If I ever hit the Lotto, I will.

Greg
 
#60
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot be

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All I will say is to recommend folks actually read the L-W link I provided. I had some opportunity to discuss the subject with L-W folks back when the idea was in the testing stage, and I'd simply say that what they claim on their web site is probably rather conservative, both in terms of accuracy and of heat management. I just wish I could afford them myself, because I'd have them on all my guns if I could. If I ever hit the Lotto, I will.

Greg </div></div>

Greg,
I do not doubt the engineering behind the link you posted from LW. It is a matter of some of the other “claims” made by the company and the associated shot groups that are visible to support their assertion.
 
#62
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot be

I think that a lot of hearts have been broken while trying to turn the .22-250 into a fast twist LR match rifle. It just heats too much, too fast.

However, if I were to actually be able to afford one of the L-W ultra lightweight barrels, it'd be SAAMI chambered in .22-250, 1:9" twist, and as long as can be made available affordably.

IMHO, the rapid heat shedding quality of these L-W hybrid sleeved barrels may well be the only way to make the concept actually work.

Greg
 
#63
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot better

I hadnt seen this thread (maybe my searching skills need improvement)before I posted my question on the beyond 1000yd forum but being open minded and after reading the article in shotgun news Aug 10th, 2010 issue. (its marked in the future dont ask why). Either the magazine is total BS or there is some merit to this process. I dont agree with the muzzle brake comment from the posted article link and while i dont want to buy snake oil the article in shotgun news does a good job of giving actual results instead of just opinions. I do value the opinions from people on here but I value actual results just a bit more. I have yet to see a comment from one person who was brave ,stupid,had more money than sense or just liked the taste of snake oil with some actual hands on with this issue. Yes I know I might just have to be that first dumbass, but the world is round I tell ya
 
#64
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot better

I also read the article in Shotgun news and immediately came here to search the company name and see what SH had to say.

Sure, the news article leaves a lot to be desired, but how do we know that isn't just shitty journalism?

I'd be interested in seeing someone who knows how to shoot test one of these things out against (or installed on) an already good performing rifle.

Has anyone here actually shot one yet?
 
#65
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot better

The videos on the website were taken at a local gunclub, and I've seen these guys shoot a few benches down. I typically keep to myself at the range, and just didn't feel like talking that day, but they seemed like a decent bunch of guys. The range itself is outdoors and 300yds max.

The owner loses me in the video that shows a 20rnd rapid-fire string, where he grabs the barrel afterward to show how well it dissipates heat. This makes no sense to my engineering mind, as the heat has to go somewhere (1st Law of Thermodynamics). e.g. the medium between the barrel and shroud either conducts heat, or acts as an insulator.

In the former case, I would suggest nothing is stiffer and more heat conductive than solid steel, so the only benefit is weight reduction. In the latter, putting insulation between the barrel and shroud would make the barrel hotter, defeating the purpose altogether. In either case, I don't understand how this helps hunters (his targeted demographic), as follow-up shots aren't taken unless you're putting down a group of hogs.

In regards to rigidity, I'll just copy and paste a few excepts from their website, which make no sense to me, especially the part about 10" groups. Maybe I'm missing something:

<span style="font-style: italic">There is a thing called "work hardening", this is when metal is repeatedly hammered or rubbed with pressure, it causes a hardening of the surface and is likely to begin to crack or break and without sufficient flexible backing it will simply break away. The fact that a rifle bore is an internal round structure makes this problem very unlikely in rifles. <span style="font-weight: bold">The heat we are talking about is leaving the barrel in a very "rubbery" state,</span> so accuracy suffers and gets worse with use.</span>

<span style="font-style: italic">In lighter weight barrels another effect of increasing heat is present, it is called axial twist, when the bullet is fired at say, 2800 fps it accelerates from zero to 2000 miles per hour in the length of your barrel. This is done with almost no "slipping" in the rifling. The barrel has to keep the bullet contained in the track of the rifling to impart the spin on the bullet as it leaves the rifle. This is a tremendous force and it actually tries to "straighten-out" the barrel as it comes out. The barrel resists this very well, but as the heat rises it does it differently every shot, so a slightly different RPM can be imparted on every bullet. <span style="font-weight: bold">Combine this with the muzzle of the barrel being in a different location every shot due to harmonics and your shooting 10 inch groups.</span></span>
 
#66
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot better

I cant find any actual hands on experience feedback but there is some very good theoretical comments.

Shitty journalist you jest that never ever happens. Sad thing thats the closest thing to actual hands on feedback from a third party I have seen other than the same article by David M. Fortier we saw in shotgun news except written in September 2010 - Petersen's Rifle Shooter magazine and some testimony on their website from G.E. Burchett (who Im sorry I dont know who that is)

I am tempted to buy a surplus cheap rifle and run my own testing, maybe they will sponsor it. Cant hurt to ask. I will let you know what they say.
 
#68
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot better

If the great devise takes away and dissipates heat energy, do we think it might also absorb or dissipate NOISE energy.

You think anyone at the ATF will want to look into it.
grin.gif
 
#72
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot better

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WuLitian</div><div class="ubbcode-body">70% of the time...it works EVERY time... </div></div>

haha Anchorman!
 
#73
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot better

Thanks for sending the link. I'm glad someone took the time and performed some objective research.
 
#75
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot better

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">he should use his new barrel sleeve to beat himself senseless </div></div>

Best post on this subject, but i think he
s already senseless.
 
#77
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot better

I had started a post around november asking about this system and had found no info looking and I ran accross this post and updated it instead of mine. you'd be surprised at the negative rep these systems get from people who have no experiene with them at all due to the press releases being typed up by people with an IQ of 60.
Do I think that this would make a .5 MOA Douglas barreled rifle shoot .25 MOA .... NO, but I don't think anyone that has a rifle that shoots .5 MOA would try to sleeve their barrel either. I would think they'd look into more precise reloading, barrel bedding (if it hasn't been done already), and other normal accuracy enhancements.
But for someone who has a winchester model 70 chambered in 270, 30-06, etc. that is unhappy with the "accuracy" that the remington core-lok delivers this would be the cheaper route to get a MOA hunting rifle versus a new barrel, action truing, barrel and action bedding, etc. On this point the system seems to deliver. I haven't seen any claims that this would make a hunting grade remmy 700 a benchrest gun.
 
#79
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot better

I just figured that I would throw in my $0.02... I have no affiliation or anything to gain from writing this, but I recently sent in a winchester M70 in 30-06 that was a hunting tapered light barrel. The rifle would shoot 4-5" groups with my handloads before. This was not due to my shooting as I shoot .5" groups consistantly from my remington sps in .308.

I was very sceptical at first, but as the rifle just sat at the back of my safe I figured I would give it a try. I needed a muzzle break anyway and the cost of a break and threading at my local smith was almost 250 anyways plus a 6-8 week wait to have the work done.
I received the rifle back 5 weeks after sending it off and loaded up 50 rounds of 178gr A-Max's backed by IMR 4064 at varying charges and headed to the range to develope a pet load. To my surprise, there was almost no difference in group size based on charge. Sure, there was a POI change with the varying velocities, but they all grouped at around a half to three quarters of an inch at 100. When I stepped the range out to 200, I was shooting about an inch with my 47.5gr charge. It was amazing to breath life back into a rifle that had just been sitting in the back of the safe for years. Lets face it, a 5" hunting rifle is not much fun to shoot. Now with the muzzle break added and the SJ, I have an accurate rifle that no longer kicks my ass and load developement is a whole different monster. I now have to load for bullet stability instead of harmonics node.

That being said, I am sending them my 2500 dollar remington .308 to have it fitted with a SJ this evening. Granted, I am adding a few requests to make sure that this one receives special attention as it is not a mosin or cheap hunting rifle, but the idea of dampening barrel harmonics is why we have 20" heavy contour barrels to begin with.

Again, take it for what its worth, but their product, as crappy as that article made it out to sound, seems to work. some of their claims may be a little boasty or unrealistic, but it deffinately made my rifle a much better shooter.

If anyone has any serious questions about the straightjacket, feel free to PM me and I will answer any questions from a perspective of a consumer and not a reporter.


Blanks
 
#81
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot better

The responses are more hilarious than his acclaimed discovery of precision shooting lol.

Another installment of "what the fuck were you thinking"

priceless.
 
#82
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot better

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BALLISTIC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Its metallurgic structure always causes the bullet to leave at a different place."

When I shoot all of my bullets leave from the muzzle. </div></div>


Mine too. That was funny
 
#83
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot be

Carbon steel sleeve with the same conductivity and convective heat transfer capability as my carbon steel barrel just means that more heat sits in the "special blend" interior for longer. If the middle jubilee of conductive material is really hot, then what stops my barrel from overheating again?

Oh...the larger surface area helps to have more convective heat transfer, and is still limited by conductive resistance and convective ability of carbon steel on the outside....so....it's the larger surface area that really matters. Ok, cool. Howsabout I just get a fluted barrel? Hell, fill in the flutes with pure copper if you really want. Don't save the weight and then get a big heavy fat barrel, half of which is really freaking hot all the time. Oh...well so that I don't burn my hands on the copper, let me put a big steel sleeve around it. So now I just bake some copper inside an effective steel pack and wait until the strain cycles create stress fractures in my steel barrel and then allow for brittle fracture to blow up the barrel the next time I go out to shoot.

Maybe I am mistaken on some of the revolutionary details from the product design, but it sounds like an accident waiting to happen. I'm seriously hoping their conductive compound has nowhere near the coefficient of thermal expansion as carbon steel or some people are going to be very unhappy with lifetime of their product when they get fatigue failures. I for one am not rich enough to own my own ultrasonic test tank and I wouldn't want to spend the time to UT my barrel after every range session.
 
#84
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot be

I wonder if he got his military contract yet?
He said in the article, "when we get a military contract"......
I wonder. It seemed it was only a matter of time.
And if any one would want there bullets to always leave the barrel from the same place it would be the military. Just think how that thing will change modern war. Bullets actually leaving the barrel in an organized manner. Sounds perfect for military.
And then there is law enforcement. This thing will put tac ops out of business. Who needs to spend all that money on one of those rifles, when one of those sleeve thingys is all you need.
Three words a-maz-ing.
 
#85
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot be

Does it work? The next time I'm on the line @ a benchrest shoot, I'll take a look and let you know! They must all have them! Ok...Ok,somebody pass me a Counter Sniper scope...
 
#86
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot better

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blanks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just figured that I would throw in my $0.02... I have no affiliation or anything to gain from writing this, but I recently sent in a winchester M70 in 30-06 that was a hunting tapered light barrel. The rifle would shoot 4-5" groups with my handloads before. This was not due to my shooting as I shoot .5" groups consistantly from my remington sps in .308.

I was very sceptical at first, but as the rifle just sat at the back of my safe I figured I would give it a try. I needed a muzzle break anyway and the cost of a break and threading at my local smith was almost 250 anyways plus a 6-8 week wait to have the work done.
I received the rifle back 5 weeks after sending it off and loaded up 50 rounds of 178gr A-Max's backed by IMR 4064 at varying charges and headed to the range to develope a pet load. To my surprise, there was almost no difference in group size based on charge. Sure, there was a POI change with the varying velocities, but they all grouped at around a half to three quarters of an inch at 100. When I stepped the range out to 200, I was shooting about an inch with my 47.5gr charge. It was amazing to breath life back into a rifle that had just been sitting in the back of the safe for years. Lets face it, a 5" hunting rifle is not much fun to shoot. Now with the muzzle break added and the SJ, I have an accurate rifle that no longer kicks my ass and load developement is a whole different monster. I now have to load for bullet stability instead of harmonics node.

That being said, I am sending them my 2500 dollar remington .308 to have it fitted with a SJ this evening. Granted, I am adding a few requests to make sure that this one receives special attention as it is not a mosin or cheap hunting rifle, but the idea of dampening barrel harmonics is why we have 20" heavy contour barrels to begin with.

Again, take it for what its worth, but their product, as crappy as that article made it out to sound, seems to work. some of their claims may be a little boasty or unrealistic, but it deffinately made my rifle a much better shooter.

If anyone has any serious questions about the straightjacket, feel free to PM me and I will answer any questions from a perspective of a consumer and not a reporter.


Blanks

</div></div>

i realize this is an old post but i just got around to reading it since the thread got brought back up.

do you honestly think that having any other match grade barrel fitted by a competent smith would not do the same thing as this barrel did for you?
 
#87
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot better

I got to play with a couple of these last year. There is some super secret stuff they put between the barrel and outer tube they install. We shot one of their AR uppers on one on my FA lowers and it sprouted a leak and was shooting white stuff all over. I've never seen anything/anyone like Zak so much that it started jizzing off the bat but this thing must have loved Zak.
I still tease him about that.
 
#88
Re: HERE..get one of these,it'll make you shoot better

Seriously...In their defense:

By placing a larger-diameter sleeve over the barrel, if attached rigidly, it could stiffen the barrel and make it shoot differently. Larger diameter cylinders are stiffer than skinnier ones, right? Isn't part of the reason for a bull barrel...to stiffen the barrel?

By stiffening it couldn't you concievably reduce barrel whip and increase accuracy with crappy ammo?

BN
 
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