I figured that the 22 minutes I watched are 22 minutes of my life I will never have again
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Hickok 45 compares $500 1911 vs $3000 1911
- Thread starter Maggot
- Start date
Yep but probably not how you are thinking. The Rock Island is more true to how a 1911 should be built. A 1911 pistol that rattle is a good pistol. These match grade 1911 pistols are nice on the range, but these are the pistols that give 1911s the reputation for poor reliability. They are built much too tight.
Check out this video with Mr.Gunsngear at Battlefield Vegas
They talk glocks at 9:30 and the Rock Island 1911 at 11:30
It's possible you have been cured of stupidity, but, as you said, it could return.
So you know, you can pick up the phone and buy from those catalogs you mentioned..or you could spec as you like.
Actually, no. The original 1911 prototype submitted to the army for trials (which ran for 6000 rounds in adverse conditions without malfunction) and the many thousands that were produced for two world war efforts were absolutely not the "rattle traps" that people think they were. The tolerances were just loose enough to allow military armorers to swap parts without problems, but back then, Colt owned the patent, so there was only one set of specs for each part in the gun, meaning every part was essentially identical. They were not loose.
The "rattle trap" 1911 was born in the 1980s when Colt's manufacturing QC took a nose dive and pistols indeed became sloppy fitting junk. Retailers selling the guns pushed the idea that "this is how the original was designed to run, you know, for reliability and what not", and the myth was born.
The unreliably tight myth was also born in the 1980s when several skilled gunsmiths that had been turning 1911s into match pistols were followed by hundreds of local Uncle Johnny gunsmiths that tried to do the same thing but churned out thousands of "custom" 1911s that couldn't run reliably and were often dangerous.
A 1911 built of quality steel by a master craftsman is absolutely as reliable as the original, while being more accurate.
My father in law has an original wartime 1911 that has been in the family since it was overseas. I shot it a couple years ago. I will check it out again the next time I visit to verify that. I could be misremembering.
I like the 1911 and had several one of which was a Dan Wesson Specialist. I end up trading or selling them away and stick with my Glock pistols. I am more practical when it comes to handguns and if it takes $3000 and a master armorer to make a 1911 be reliable then i have made the right choice sticking with my $450 glocks. ?
I wouldn’t mind a really well built 1911 just to have but at the end of the day I am not a collector so I tend to stick with more practical weapons with the occasional splurge thrown in which is sometimes more often then it should be.
Of the many 1911 pistols I own and have owned, I’ve only had one problem pistol. It was a Springfield 1911a1.
The rest worked just fine. From my norincos to my customs.
The rest worked just fine. From my norincos to my customs.
To be fair, the several I have owned were reliable as well for the little that I shot them. They just seemed to be a little picky with ammunition as they had a few stoppages. Stuff that would choke them such as my friends reloads and flat nose bullets, would be eaten and spit out by my glock 21. This isn’t to start a this vs that so I hope that doesn’t happen. The 1911 just needs good ammo that is vetted through your particular pistol and they are plenty reliable. I am sure there are some that will eat anything just as the glocks and M&Ps do. This is my number one criteria that a pistol must do or I sell it. If a 1911 meets that then I would be glad to have it.
When it comes to Kimber I have had pretty good luck. I have owned 3 still own one and they have all been good reliable weapons. All were Yonkers NY made. I sold a full sized Kimber to help fund A Wilson Combat CQB. It is very accurate but it is not reliable. It jams about every other magazine (stovepipe) . It is ammo finicky. Likes ball, likes Wilson ammo, forget Federal or Winchester HP. I have tried everything to include sending it back to Wilson but it still does the same shit. I wish I never had bought it. Sits in the safe. I shoot the other Kimber and an old Colt Gold Cup now when I need a 1911 fix.
I can't even get a bite for $1800 on my gunshot table. It looks cool and people like to touch it but its kinda like a paraplegic supermodel.
Good points, I've been a 1911 owner since 1980, had many. Lot of misconceptions on 1911 accuracy and tight fitting slides. The barrel lugs and bushing on standard barrels are the only 2 contact points that determine decent accuracy. Ed Brown poked fun of Les Baer pistols for yrs, "It doesn't have to be tight, it has to be right".
Comparing a Glock to a "Match grade 1911" in reliability more or less comes down to chamber size. And extractors, more people compromised their extractors on 1911's by hand chambering a rd and slamming the slide home.
The diameter of a case come from a Glock bigger than most 1911's. The match grade barrels that seemed to be the order of the day is what eliminated a lot ammo-reloads that could be used. Now seat depths really needed to be tweaked. Kimbers were the worst. I had 3 Les Baers that fed all our shitty reloads, lead semi wadcutters that vapor locked Kimbers.
I bought an Ed Brown, sat for 3 yrs, sweet looking pistol, slide to frame fir from the back end looks like a tight fitting jigsaw puzzle. First outing I was trying to get rid of some PMC 230gr round nose. Talk about jammomatic, I was pissed. When I got home, simple caliper readings showed case mouths at .473", not the pistols fault. The crimp causes more headaches in a 1911 than anything else I found out. Get it yo .470"
I am out of touch in the 1911 world, but when I was, I think Colt had taken themselves out of the game around that time, but there were only 2 reputable slide-frame makers in the US. Ed Brown and Les Baer, I don't want to spread mistruths, but I think Wilson Combat was buying from either, not sure today. I recall some 1911's that needed the ejection port opened up to function, shit was taken too far, WTF really.
I hate glocks, xd's. new shit in general. For my protection, I choose 1911's, but you don't buy the ones I rely on at cabela's or sportsmans warehouse. Becoming my fav is a Wilsom EDC X9, but it needs night sights which pisses me off it did not come with.
Used gun market right now blows, almost need the perfect storm sell under your terms. But there is someone out there who wants your gun, just need to find that avenue.
I bet you anything he's running a Shok buff and the slide is short-stroking just enough to cause stovepipes. Ask me how I know.
Wilson needs to make that right. If they can't get it, doubt I can help much. Limp wristing a 1911 is a disaster which I am sure you know. Changing spring weights to match the ammo helps, no one size fits all. You can run a 15-16lb with 230 gr hardball, you're tearing the gun up though. I used to change springs when alternating between 230gr and 200gr Ranier's.
I am surprised about this, that guy and his shop know WTF is going on. I just never pulled the plug on one, doubt I will, don't shoot enough today.
Well, I guess it’s better. I ran 4 mags through it and it did this on the last round. Also noticed the brass is really getting tore up without the blue shok buff. Ammo is factory Winchester Ranger 230 grain T series
I don't need it. Fucking Wilson put it on the gun when they sent it back to me so I left it on.
What recoil spring and main spring weights are you running? I've seen that on guns that are severely under sprung for the ammo being run.
Each time i go back home to Philippines
I take my custom sti 2011 to compete..im not a competitive level when it comes to handgun..and 95% shooters there even junior shooter using armscore/rock island..i got beat all the time
but i know its the indian but their shit works!!!
I take my custom sti 2011 to compete..im not a competitive level when it comes to handgun..and 95% shooters there even junior shooter using armscore/rock island..i got beat all the time
but i know its the indian but their shit works!!!
15lbs on the recoil spring if I remember correctly. Main spring no idea. It is whatever they put in it when I sent it to them if they even bothered.
edit: just looked at the invoice and it doesn't show they replaced the springs just tensioned and replaced the extractor.
That's a stupid comment. Because there are a ba-zillion on the market everyone and their brother offer doo-dads and what-not for it. They work just fine right of the box, doing what they were designed and intended to be, and to do.
You could, of course, make the same stupid remark about the 1911.
Did the slide lock back like that or did it close on the empty case, and you locked it back manually?
It doesn't. The extra $2500 pays to wring the last bit of accuracy from a cartridge, cut 40 LPI on the rear of a slide, flush fit a barrel bushing, line the top of a slide, etc, etc, etc, all by hand. Then you get into finishes.
Neither am I. With just a couple of sentimental exceptions, I shoot all my 1911s from the $300 '70s vintage Colt to the $4k built to my specs.
Most 1911 knowledge is gleaned from the net. Here's what I've read about Glocks on the net:
- The plastic will melt if you shoot a lot of rounds really fast
- The plastic ages and will crack over time
- Can't shoot cast bullets
- 40 cals are prone to kabooms
- Glocks won't register on airport metal detectors (that one is from a movie, but if you can't trust Hollywood...)
I've witnessed numerous Glocks malfunction. Almost all were caused by the user...either home 'smithing or reloads. Excepting junk manufacturers, the same is true of 1911s. Glock has a huge advantage in the reputation department as no other company builds Glocks.
Here are some of the remarks I've heard from 1911 "experts":
- A hit to the thumb will knock a grown man down
- Will only feed hardball
- If the slide stop breaks, the slide will hit you in the face
- If it fires out of battery, the next round in the magazine will explode
- If you have a squib and fire another fire, the frame will shred your hand
Never seen a shredded hand, but I have seen a number of examples of rounds fired with a bullet lodged in the bore. Never seen a slide or frame come apart. Have seen a couple examples that still functioned. Usually, both projectiles exit the bore and the barrel swells enough to lock things up. Before all the other "experts" chime in, I'm sure there are lots folks who have managed to rapidly disassemble any firearm with the right (wrong?) ammo.
I liken this to the guy who would never buy a Mustang because his buddy's engine blew with less than 50k on the odometer. He doesn't mention his buddy was running two-stage nitrous.
Slide is locked back on its own. Brass is so jammed I can't even pull the slide back to unlock it. Can't strip the mag free. weapon is completely shut down. I have a notion to send the spent brass and weapon as it is to Wilson and say "Please unfuck this or give it a decent burial." BTW you were the last ones to work on it.
I just sent them an email. I'm going to send it back and see what happens.
On another note. I have carried Glocks, a 21 and a 17 early in my LE career. I really don't like them. I carried a HK USP 45 and Sigs from then on. Even carried a Colt Officers 1911 as a back up. The Glock 21 had issues and I went to the HK without any problems. I changed agencies and went to the SIG 220 without any complaints 30K rounds and only a handful of stoppages that tap rack bang took care of.
I would never ever trust my life with a Wilson 1911. I have and would with a Glock but not my first choice. If Wilson fixes it, it will just be a fun plinker that lives in the safe until I can sell it and buy another HK or Kimber.
Jesus man! That sucks! I would be pissed blue but I hope Wilson takes care of it for you no hassle and quick like!
As for $700.00 versus $3000.00. I have a Kimber Ultra Carry 2 that I love (but I hate that little series 80 widget! It's a bitch to get back in and lined up with the sear and disconnector but I ramble). It shoots well and is easy to carry so why did I buy a few nighthawks and STI's? Because I wanted them! It's just icing on the cake that they happen to be orders of magnitude more accurate that I will ever be!
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Full power loads like Ranger T 230 gr. require a recoil spring no lighter than 16 lbs., but 17 is better. A brand new 15 lb. recoil spring wouldn't likely be enough for that ammo, and if you've got a 15 lb. spring that has several thousand rounds through it and they didn't replace it, your actual spring resistance could be more like 12 lbs. and could easily cause the malfunction you had. Very possible that nothing is wrong with the gun but a worn-out, under-powered spring.
Nonetheless, sending it to Wilson should get you fixed up. Sorry about your troubles.
Buy a Rock Island and put 300,000 rounds through it and you end up spending the same money as buying a full house custom.
When you have shot the 300,000 rounds you will have a worn out 500.00 pistol and be one HELL of a pistolero. If you buy the 3,500 dollar full custom you will end up with a mighty pretty pistol and still wont be able to shoot for shit.
When you have shot the 300,000 rounds you will have a worn out 500.00 pistol and be one HELL of a pistolero. If you buy the 3,500 dollar full custom you will end up with a mighty pretty pistol and still wont be able to shoot for shit.
See, you managed to sum it up in two sentences that probably took less than 60 seconds to type out.
Buy a Rock Island and put 300,000 rounds through it and you end up spending the same money as buying a full house custom.
When you have shot the 300,000 rounds you will have a worn out 500.00 pistol and be one HELL of a pistolero. If you buy the 3,500 dollar full custom you will end up with a mighty pretty pistol and still wont be able to shoot for shit.
I like the way you think.
Where are you getting .45ACP ammo for a penny a round?!? $3000.00/300000 = $0.01. I NEED to know! The best deal I’ve found is through a buddy who works at Remington. He can get me ammo for 6.00/50 count but that’s still $36000.00.Buy a Rock Island and put 300,000 rounds through it and you end up spending the same money as buying a full house custom.
When you have shot the 300,000 rounds you will have a worn out 500.00 pistol and be one HELL of a pistolero. If you buy the 3,500 dollar full custom you will end up with a mighty pretty pistol and still wont be able to shoot for shit.
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I have a Kimber Gold Match. Paid $785.00 for it back in 1997. Its silky smooth. Had front strap checkered, wider thumb safety, Ed Brown mainspring housing with mag funnel. Shot it hard for 3-4 years with hot loads for pins. Always fed well, 230 ball plated, lead 215g swc,230 hollow points. Did have the barrel bushing fail after a few thousand rounds, it appeared to be a mim part. Like my smith revolvers, will not part with it even though I hardly shoot it anymore. Can't speak for the newer Kimber. 1911's have or can be tuned to have the best triggers.
If your going to carry something that size/weight might as well carry something with higher capacity. Different pistols for different applications like anything else.
If your going to carry something that size/weight might as well carry something with higher capacity. Different pistols for different applications like anything else.
I enjoy my Auto Ordnance 1911 GI model I bought many years ago for a few hundred bucks. Triggers a lil gritty. For a smooth shooting quality 45 ACP I shoot my Walther PPQ. suppressed too
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