HIGH end 10/22 - No Expense spared

[Hellbender]

Hey,

Just to be clear on your post...for rimfires... you are saying the lock time between a bolt and a semi is substantial enough that you should not consider a semi over a bolt rifle?


I would argue that, for rimfire, that the slow bullet speed FAR outweighs the perceived/actual lock time of the action...

Good points tho as the semi AR center fire you absolutely have to focus more on fundamentals/consistency...I think it is downplayed in the rimfire world due to the exponentially slower ammo...


Thoughts?
DT

If you want every available advantage for positional shooting (ie NRL22, etc), then yes, 100%.

If you take shooters with the EXACT same skill level, put one with a bolt and one with an auto, the bolt will ALWAYS, 100% of the time win over the long run.

Of course, in other disciplines that place pure speed over accuracy this may be different, I'm talking in the context of NRL22 and like sports.

About your argument on slow bbl time..... it is entirely negated.
The slow barrel time is the SAME for BOTH guns (bolt and semi.....with same bbl. lengths), so the lock time disadvantage is the SAME for a rimfire as for a centerfire....you still have to hold the gun perfectly still 3 to 4 times longer AFTER the trigger is pulled to make the same shot.

I know Kidd triggers have fast lock times, but they are still 3-4 times slower than a striker fired bolt gun.

It is impossible for a hammer swinging through an arc, then accelerating a stationary firing pin to compete with a simple firing pin dropped directly on a primer.

And please don't think I'm poo-pooing semi's, I probably have 35 or 40 of them in many flavors and enjoy them all!!

 

[delfuego]

If you take shooters with the EXACT same skill level, put one with a bolt and one with an auto, the bolt will ALWAYS, 100% of the time win over the long run.

FYI: 80% of statistics are made up

 

[Hellbender]

FYI: 80% of statistics are made up

Statistics has absolutely nothing to do with it.

The human body cannot physically hold perfectly still, so the longer you hold something, the more it moves, pretty simple.

 

[hlee]

For me, not having to break position to run a bolt trumps the theoretical advantage of a faster lock time. That said, the props at the match in Milican are pretty damn stable. If you can build a position on the prop, there is generally not much wobble (if any) in the aim point. My experience has been that points here are dropped due to wind, shooting big box store ammo, and momentary lapses of focus- possibly in that order.

If we're shooting paper stages (with bulls eyes and scoring rings), then the virtues of a faster lock time are manifest. However, on relatively generous steel targets (or at least targets that don't penalize anything less than a center-punch, because grazing any edge swings the target and scores a point), I'm not convinced that faster lock time- within reason- isn't down in the weeds and eclipsed by environmentals and larger equipment issues.

I was talking to the match director and he mentioned that no one has cleaned the 22lr match there in Milican, though some really top level shooters shoot it every month. I'm not sure what the all time high score is, though I know the match has been won with a total of 3 dropped points on the day, and it was done with a Kidd Supergrade- with a few Vudoos in the field. That rifle is the green one with the stainless barrel a few posts up. The last match I shot there, 1st and 2nd went to Vudoo shooters. My Kidd and I took 3rd. I'm quite confident that the results would not change (much) if the rifles were randomly swapped between those 3 shooters.

By the Vudoo of you want the Vudoo- by all accounts they are great guns. But, don't not buy a Kidd because you think they can't compete. That is false.

 

[Moose]

Have owned a kidd sg for 2 years and it is not lacking in anything.I also just put a vudoo together because I just have to find out how good they are.Love shooting rimfire at distance.

 

[Milo 2.5]

I HATE YOU... lol
you just don't want to get beat by a 10/22! ha...



DT

You know you are not going to be complete till you build this and shoot it for a season. As a subject, you're a damn good one for the experiment.
There is a couple on accurate shooter who build or modify Ruger's, aftermarket barrel, tuner of coarse that print some awesome groups at 100, and win matches. Their guns don't come close to parts you have to assemble yours.
Just do this and keep us updated, lol

 

[raven88]

Havnt done a thing to this build since last post. Bills and Christmas and bills have been kicking my buttttt.

I have a MOA receiver but its not from them. My gunsmith friend has a one of them from many moons ago. Pretty sure the company that made them is out of business.


Honestly I have been getting some cold feet about putting this kind of money into a semi auto when I can get a Vudo for the same so I am at a stopping pt...until I get some $$ saved. or until I convince myself I wont be giving anything up shooting a semi to the bolt.

Please if reading this post up of your accurate 10/22 so I can get the bug again lol


Regards
DT

I'm just an old guy that likes to shoot..... I was looking at getting a V22, but the prices I seen were 2K+, so I went with the Kidd Super Match because it was much less and barrel swaps are a so easy. (like one minute easy) I picked it up a couple weeks ago. It's got a Kidd /2 stage trigger. I just started testing different ammo brands today. I don't know if my rifle will hang with a V22, but it definitely will shoot CCI SV and sk rifle match inside a dime at 50yd. The orange sticky dots are 1" and the rifle keeps CCI SV, SK Rifle Match and Ely Force well inside the orange at 100yd. Those three brands have grouped the best of the brands I have tried. I should mention that Federal HV match looked pretty good at 100yd too! a couple of sample pix attached. PS.... my grandsons love this rifle.

 

[Moose]

Nice shooting bro you gotta love the Kidd SG.And I agree about how easy the barrel change is.

 

[raven88]

Nice shooting bro you gotta love the Kidd SG.And I agree about how easy the barrel change is.

Thanks, I am impressed with this little rifle. The barrel makes it so worthwhile.....for cleaning or swapping. The first group out of the Kidd SM with CCI SV was impressive......literally 3 shots (see attached) o dial and 7 through the same hole. The Kidd 2Stage trigger is incredible.....really fun to shoot this rifle.

 

[Pappasniper]

Decided I hate $$ and am going all in on a build for BR and NRL matches.

SO far components I have and price

$340 - Benchmark SS 16.5t 3GR 1.2-.850 taper
$250 - KIDD Single stage trigger unit 1.5 lbs
$99.95 - KIDD Bolt
$6 - KIDD Takedown Screw
$29.95 - KIDD Threaded Receiver Pins w/Countersink tool
$29.95 - KIDD Bolt Handle Charging Assembly w/Guide Rod & Springs (Black Ring)
$5.95 - KIDD Bolt Buffer
$200 - MOA Corp stainless receiver

View attachment 7046191

Yet to order - Mcmillan A5-22 stock. Honestly looking to save by getting a used one but ends up they are pretty rare. Have a line on one but havnt pulled trigger yet.

Stock - $500 +/-
Chamber job barrel finish at 24" - $250
Bedding - $200
Tuner - $250 (leaning towards CHacons PRX II tuner)

Thought process is this. Why not use a semi auto for NRL? All targets are inside 100 yards for the NRL required COF and there are a lot of position changes as well as mag changes. A semi auto will really shine on time. The only stage where I could be hurt is the KYL rack. If the accuracy isn't there, I guess I just don't go for the smallest plate. The last match I was at I kept missing the 4th plate anyways with my 40x so not a huge deal breaker. Second, I have a Stiller 2500X single shot for BR shooting. I want to take my Dad who is getting older now and then so I will let him use the Stiller and I will use the 10/22.


On the rifle itself. Why the action and components. I will get a lot of questions of why wasting time with threaded receiver, as there are more accurate rifles with screw and press fit barrels. While jumping/banging/moving/falling around on NRL type stages, I don't want any issues. Ever. I believe threaded is the only way this will happen. The MOA action also has a threaded rear tang screw. I don't know how this cant be a plus.

As for the internal components, KIDD obviously has something figured out to have the success rifle after rifle. I get it that most people aren't used to anything considered accurate with factory Ruger 10/22's or rifles in general so even a small upgrade is worth the change, but KIDD gets it right time after time. That being considered, I decided for all KIDD internals. Quite happy there.

I will update as project progresses. I will be bitterly disappointed if Im not able to score at least a 245/250 on a IR 50/50 card. I plan to send it off to the Lapua testing facility to get ammo matched up for it.



pics of MOA receiver and A5-22 stock are off internet.


Regards
DT

Those are some sick looking builds. What on average does a wild man have into one of those guns.

PB

 

[Sagittarius]

I love the KIDD two-stage trigger so well in my Chacon build that I put one in my Ruger Competition too.
I shoot KYL competition with my rifles and believe the time advantage shooting the targets with a semi-auto offset the advantage of lock time with a bolt gun.

 

[Sagittarius]

Those are some sick looking builds. What on average does a wild man have into one of those guns.

PB

A semi-auto build with scope, rings, and components can go from $1,500.00 to over $4,000.00
A bolt gun can go north of $7,000.00
Many variables, of course, but they can get expensive!