Rifle Scopes High End Tactical: Part III

[koshkin]

Having thought about it a little, I decided to make "High End Tactical Scopes" a recurring them for an article series.

Here are the threads that links to Part I and Part II.


I am now starting part 3 with the following contenders:
S&B PMII 4-16x50 (same scope as was used in Part II, for continuity)
Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50 (with new eyepiece)
Steiner 4-16x50 (this is one of the first few made)
Premier Light Tactical 3-15x50 (also one of the first few made)

At some point as I conduct this review, I expect to also get my hands onto March 3-24x42FFP, so I might pile that on as well.

I will once again use Jon's excellent Aadmounts for the test. I was sufficiently impressed with them after the the previous article that I am now a proud owner of three of them: 35mm (for Vortex Razor HD), 34mm (for the Steiner) and 30mm (for the Premier Light Tactical) versions.

The scopes will be tested on a DTA SRS in 338LM, and a couple of AR-15s one chambered for 223Rem and another for 264LBC.

The S&B will only be used for optical comparisons, since I have thoroughly checked its mechanical quality in an earlier article.

Let the games begin!

ILya

 

[USACS]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

Holy crap. I can't wait for this one. I'll be very curious to see how they all compare-especially the Premier Light Tactical and Steiner.

 

[KM375]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

I should have my March 3x24 ffp by the end of May and I head overseas for a few months early in June, if you need it I can lend it to you.

 

[koshkin]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: krm375</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I should have my March 3x24 ffp by the end of May and I head overseas for a few months early in June, if you need it I can lend it to you.</div></div>

Thanks, I expect to have the march around the same time as well.

ILya

 

[Plange]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

Me too...

Paul

 

[koshkin]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Plange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Me too...

Paul </div></div>

I am kinda curious myself. Time will tell I suppose.

ILya

 

[Hawk45]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

Thanks for doing these reviews.. alwasys appreicated when I see a new one come out.

Cheers

 

[WyomingShooter]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

ILYA - Could you be convinced to review laser range finders? I'm surely not the only one who would greatly appreciate your efforts. With best regards, ELN.

 

[bailey1474]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WyomingShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ILYA - Could you be convinced to review laser range finders? I'm surely not the only one who would greatly appreciate your efforts. With best regards, ELN. </div></div>

The only problem w/that is that I have found no two to be the same. You can have one Swaro that is awesome and another that is junk. Same w/all the other mfg as well. Not sure why it's so hard to be consistant when making LRFs.

 

[Scot_E]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

Any chance of the new SS variable being ready to review with the rest of the scopes you mentioned?

This has the potential to be the best review yet. I am really interested to see how the new light tactical from Premier turns out!

 

[fox5]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

I'm excited for another detailed report, thanks for putting your time in!

 

[YN*Dotte]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hawk45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for doing these reviews.. alwasys appreicated when I see a new one come out.

Cheers </div></div>

+1, I am really looking forward to part 3. The last two have been seriously good reads and very helpful.

 

[koshkin]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WyomingShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ILYA - Could you be convinced to review laser range finders? I'm surely not the only one who would greatly appreciate your efforts. With best regards, ELN. </div></div>

I could be convinced (especially since I can take them to work and run them through the equipment I have there which can simulate almost any distance).

However, my time is a bit limited, so this is unlikely to happen until late in the year.

Besides, I would need to do a little more research to see which ones I should be looking at.

Which rangefinders would you like to see tested?

ILya

 

[koshkin]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot E</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any chance of the new SS variable being ready to review with the rest of the scopes you mentioned?

This has the potential to be the best review yet. I am really interested to see how the new light tactical from Premier turns out! </div></div>

I doubt that the new SS variable will be ready in time. Besides, I suspect it will be in an appreciably lower price bracket.

ILya

 

[WyomingShooter]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ILYA</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WyomingShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ILYA - Could you be convinced to review laser range finders? I'm surely not the only one who would greatly appreciate your efforts. With best regards, ELN. </div></div>

I could be convinced (especially since I can take them to work and run them through the equipment I have there which can simulate almost any distance).

However, my time is a bit limited, so this is unlikely to happen until late in the year.

Besides, I would need to do a little more research to see which ones I should be looking at.

Which rangefinders would you like to see tested?

ILya </div></div>

Excellent! My interest is two-fold: upper-end dedicated LRFs and LRF/binocoular combos. Some examples: Swarovski 8X30 Laser Guide, Zeiss T* PRF, Leica CRF 1600, etc. Of course, I'd also like to know if any less expensive offerings can compete with their pricier competitors. Thanks very much for taking this on. I know that your quality reviews are the result of much hard work. Best regards, ELN.

 

[koshkin]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WyomingShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ILYA</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WyomingShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ILYA - Could you be convinced to review laser range finders? I'm surely not the only one who would greatly appreciate your efforts. With best regards, ELN. </div></div>

I could be convinced (especially since I can take them to work and run them through the equipment I have there which can simulate almost any distance).

However, my time is a bit limited, so this is unlikely to happen until late in the year.

Besides, I would need to do a little more research to see which ones I should be looking at.

Which rangefinders would you like to see tested?

ILya </div></div>

Excellent! My interest is two-fold: upper-end dedicated LRFs and LRF/binocoular combos. Some examples: Swarovski 8X30 Laser Guide, Zeiss T* PRF, Leica CRF 1600, etc. Of course, I'd also like to know if any less expensive offerings can compete with their pricier competitors. Thanks very much for taking this on. I know that your quality reviews are the result of much hard work. Best regards, ELN. </div></div>

Let's not be too rash. I am not exactly taking this one since my time is kinda limited. I am going to do some primary research and put together a potential list of contestants to keep in my back pocket if it turns out I have the time to pull this of later in the year.

ILya

 

[WyomingShooter]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

ILYA - Understood. Please know how much your previous reviews are appreciated. ELN

 

[koshkin]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

Quick update:

At this point I have the S&B, Vortex Razor HD and Steiner in my hands (just picked the Steiner from FedEx). I expect the Premier to show up shortly.

I will start on the basic comparison between these three in the meantime.

ILya

 

[koshkin]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

Another update: Premier Light Tactical has shipped and will be here next week.
I will probably head out to the range this Saturday morning for an initial look at the Steiner and Razor HD, so if anyone is in LA, I'll be at the Angeles Range.

Also, it looks like I will get my hands onto the new Bushnell 3.5-21x50 FFP scope in time to look at it side-by-side with the other scopes here. It is a bit cheaper, but I liked the prototypes I saw at SHOT, so it will be interesting to look at it in more detail.

ILya

 

[Red Belly]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

I am looking forward to see how the Premier Light Tactical performs. Thanks again for taking this on. I enjoy your "Pepsi Challenge" of optics reviews.

 

[10FPshooter]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

Excellent! Can't wait to see how the new Bushnell performs.

 

[USACS]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

Definitely interested in the Steiners.

 

[koshkin]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

Just received Premier Light Tactical.

Now, the fun begins.

ILya

 

[wegner426]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

This should be interesting.....particularly interested in the Premier and the Bushnell.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

Better to do it right than fast.

I look forward to part 3

 

[crnkin]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

Any chance of putting the premier hunter in there too?

Chris

 

[koshkin]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crnkin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any chance of putting the premier hunter in there too?

Chris</div></div>

Hunter and Light Tactical are identical optically, but have different knobs. Since this article is aimed at the tactical market, I thought that Light Tactical would be a more appropriate option.

ILya

 

[j.baum]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

I too am really looking forward to the Premier Light Tactical review before I purchase the Heritage Tactical. After all it was your review in Part II that sold me on the Premier, maybe Part III can change my mind. Thanks for your time man, really its much appreciated to have such a well put together review.

 

[SLUHstud]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

ilya-

Im sure you have seen that the new 5-20 ss is out in hands now, have you had a chance to contact Jon A or Lowlight about the prototypes they have in hand? By all acounts they have pretty great glass for the cost, and are comparable in Jon A eyes to the IOR 3.5-18 that ranks close to the premier. I know earlier in the thread you thought it would be in a lower bracket, but from remarks i am hearing it looks like others think the glass is pretty good. Maybe it does deserve a spot in the tests?

Just wondering if maybe they could be talked in to letting u look through one here for this test. Other tests had used the 3-9 ss and it did well for what it was, would be nice to see how this compares.

Thanks and keep up the great work on the reviews.

Pat

 

[SWFA]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

We've got him covered.

 

[koshkin]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SLUHstud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ilya-

Im sure you have seen that the new 5-20 ss is out in hands now, have you had a chance to contact Jon A or Lowlight about the prototypes they have in hand? By all acounts they have pretty great glass for the cost, and are comparable in Jon A eyes to the IOR 3.5-18 that ranks close to the premier. I know earlier in the thread you thought it would be in a lower bracket, but from remarks i am hearing it looks like others think the glass is pretty good. Maybe it does deserve a spot in the tests?

Just wondering if maybe they could be talked in to letting u look through one here for this test. Other tests had used the 3-9 ss and it did well for what it was, would be nice to see how this compares.

Thanks and keep up the great work on the reviews.

Pat </div></div>

I should have the 5-20x50 in time to look at it side-by-side with the rest of the scopes here.

I will end up structuring the article loosely in accordance to the price:

-Steiner seems to have been aimed at the S&B, so the primary comparison there is between the two.
-Premier LT is priced right between the Steiner and the Vortex Razor HD, which puts it squarely in the Nightforce F1 market niche. Since I have tested an F1 next to the S&B in the previous article, I will compare the LT to the S&B as well.
-Razor HD is close to the Premier LT in price, but configured to go after the higher end crowd. I have a lot of mileage with this scope, so I am primarily looking at the changes that accompany the new eyepiece
-The new Bushnell 3.5-21x50 and the new Super Sniper 5-20x50 are configured similarly to the Razor HD, but will retail for less. They go head to head.

In order to properly cover all scopes I have to subdivide them into smaller groups. Then I compare the groups to each other.

ILya

 

[SLUHstud]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

Sounds great, best news I have heard today. . .well aside from the fact that SWFA is coming up with a package deal for these that should be pretty good. . .i have a gun in need of a scope and this looks like its shaping up to be that optic. I was leaning towards the IOR 3.5-18 or the premier 3-15 based on your previous reviews. Waiting to see how these stack up to those will make my choice that much easier or that much harder depending on how one looks at it.

Pat

 

[Red Belly]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

So. How's the review coming?

 

[jimdvt]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

Patience, excellence takes time. But... since it's been brought up, any preliminary insights/surprises?

 

[Chiller]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

this will be an interesting read.....

 

[dar1246]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

This will be one to follow the results on.

 

[koshkin]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

No major surprises so far.

I am just plugging away with the tests as time allows.

March FFP and the 5-20x50 are not yet here, so I am looking at the other scopes for now.

I just got back from Israel, I am going to head to the range tomorrow armed with a couple of rifles and monstrous jetlag. We'll see how the combination pans out.

ILya

 

[jlficken]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

I think you may have just sold me a new non-illuminated March Tactical when I get the $$. Thanks for the review!!!

 

[Red Belly]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

Jet lag. I know that all too well. Get some rest.

 

[koshkin]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

All right, as of a couple of days ago, I finally have every scope I intended on hand, since the 5-20x50 Super Sniper and the FFP March showed up as well.

Since I have tested the March rather extensively in the past, I am not going to dwell on it too much this time around. Similarly, I am not going to spend a whole lot of time on the S&B.

The focus of the article will be on:
SWFA Super Sniper 5-20x50
Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50
Bushnell Elite 3.5-21x50
Steiner Military 4-16x50
Premier Light Tactical 3-15x50

That should keep me pre-occupied well enough.

ILya

 

[jeo556]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

I'm holding my breath. Your reviews are top notch and I really look forward to reading your reports/writeups.

Thank Ilya, we appreciate it.

 

[koshkin]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

Well, I am still working on the comparison. I am largely done, except I want to repeat some low light tests and re-run a couple more tracking tests, just to be sure.

It is fun to play with all these scopes though:

ILya

 

[XxMerlinxX]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ILya</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is fun to play with all these scopes though</div></div>

Yeah yeah, rub it in why don't ya?

 

[KM375]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ILya</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I am still working on the comparison. I am largely done, except I want to repeat some low light tests and re-run a couple more tracking tests, just to be sure.

It is fun to play with all these scopes though:

ILya </div></div>

Looking at the photo, The March that I purchased will work well on the GAP TIS Special, for keeping the whole system nice and light and compact.

 

[koshkin]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

I have the March set up on 6.5Grendel and I specifically chose the March for it because of its weight. The whole thing, as configured in this picture (with scope and bipod) weighs 10.6 lbs:

ILya

 

[Lowlight]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

I have the March on a DTA Covert, using a Spuhr 6 mil mount and I find it really hard to get a good sight picture. It's not mounted overly low, in fact, it should be good, but I get shadowing around 9 O Clock and I have to really move my head around to get it edge to edge clear.

Just adding,

 

[koshkin]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have the March on a DTA Covert, using a Spuhr 6 mil mount and I find it really hard to get a good sight picture. It's not mounted overly low, in fact, it should be good, but I get shadowing around 9 O Clock and I have to really move my head around to get it edge to edge clear.

Just adding, </div></div>

It is indeed more finicky with eye relief than the Hensoldt and Premier scopes I have played with. I suppose that is the price I have to pay for light weight and smallish objective lens. Then again, with this project I wanted something light, so I ended up having to mess with it a little.

With the AR-15 it is sitting on, I ended up going with the Nightforce Uni-mount to get it a touch lower than my Aadmount. I also wrapped the buttstock with some McNetts tape over a thin piece of foam. It ended up being just right after some experimentation.

ILya

 

[ls1mtz]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

Can't wait to see how the SS does versus the big boys!

 

[shaneinhisroom]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

Ilya, I learned a lot from reading your articles on your website. Keep them up and thanks for your work!

 

[Mr Flannel]

Re: High End Tactical: Part III

I recently bought the March FFP 3-24x and it is an extremely well executed scope but I do agree with the comments about the eyebox. Too small. 3-20x with that eyebox would have been enough, since you've got to be rock still to use it well at max magnification.