I just measured up over the weekend and am getting ready to order ... worth the investment and some piece of mind that it can potentially buy you a minute ... when you may need it the most
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Honest Opinion on home defense rifle
- Thread starter ut755ln
- Start date
King, first, it breaks my heart to hear about any dog getting shot, even if it may have been your only option in this case. And yes if you buy a dog that's already trained it can get very pricey. But for the record, a lot of these dogs (although certainly not all) can be ferocious when it comes to work and pussycats with their family.
On the other hand, my sable girl (who looks a lot like your dog) has Schutzhund III dogs on both sides going back four generations. Bought her for $1,500. But the breeder wanted her to go to a working home and I'd put a Schutzhund B on my prior dog and at the time had planned to compete with her - unfortunately life/other commitments got in the way. But if you want to train yourself the time commitment is enormous and you need to find a good club.
On the other hand, my sable girl (who looks a lot like your dog) has Schutzhund III dogs on both sides going back four generations. Bought her for $1,500. But the breeder wanted her to go to a working home and I'd put a Schutzhund B on my prior dog and at the time had planned to compete with her - unfortunately life/other commitments got in the way. But if you want to train yourself the time commitment is enormous and you need to find a good club.
I got over it after having to help a friend put his kids face back on.
If I could choose between having a lifetime of sex with the hottest chick on the planet or owning the best dog to ever live, it would be the dog every time. BUT....bad dogs are mean ass vicious wild animals that should be put down. And I learned that some of them, like people, come that way from he factory and you can't polish that turd no matter what you do.
I really want to think everyone and I am posting to give an update on a couple of different fronts.
1) Apparently these kind of crimes are way up according to HPD. They say the cause is that the District Attorney has made it clear that they are not prosecuting most C felonies and misdemeanors. So walking up people's driveway and trying to grab things out of their car or garage is fair game in greater Houston.
2) We are upgrading our alarm system. The current system is eight or nine years old and we are installing a Ring Pro system with sensors on all of the ground floor doors and windows and a backup cellular connection and power source.
3) We will sell the house in the next year, my wife wants to move outside of the city to some place with better crime stats and a DA that prosecutes criminals.
4) My older son took an emergency leave to come home and see his mother. He also brought me a present and I am now the proud owner of a MK 18 that is pretty close to what he uses for work. I bought a Surefire can today that apparently I will get in three to four months.
5) On Saturday, we are going to the range and he is going to work with me on getting use to the platform. He hopes to put six to eight hundred rounds down range with me and then give me a practice schedule.
6) The forum, the police, and the son all recommended a dog that is a little more aggressive than my Labrador. In the next week or two we are going to buy a Dutch Shepherd or Belgian Malnois (female) and I have line up a trainer.
7) We have a ton of money sunk in the house. I really can't put bars up or harden it too much without fucking the value but since my wife wants to move out west of Houston it does not make much difference.
1) Apparently these kind of crimes are way up according to HPD. They say the cause is that the District Attorney has made it clear that they are not prosecuting most C felonies and misdemeanors. So walking up people's driveway and trying to grab things out of their car or garage is fair game in greater Houston.
2) We are upgrading our alarm system. The current system is eight or nine years old and we are installing a Ring Pro system with sensors on all of the ground floor doors and windows and a backup cellular connection and power source.
3) We will sell the house in the next year, my wife wants to move outside of the city to some place with better crime stats and a DA that prosecutes criminals.
4) My older son took an emergency leave to come home and see his mother. He also brought me a present and I am now the proud owner of a MK 18 that is pretty close to what he uses for work. I bought a Surefire can today that apparently I will get in three to four months.
5) On Saturday, we are going to the range and he is going to work with me on getting use to the platform. He hopes to put six to eight hundred rounds down range with me and then give me a practice schedule.
6) The forum, the police, and the son all recommended a dog that is a little more aggressive than my Labrador. In the next week or two we are going to buy a Dutch Shepherd or Belgian Malnois (female) and I have line up a trainer.
7) We have a ton of money sunk in the house. I really can't put bars up or harden it too much without fucking the value but since my wife wants to move out west of Houston it does not make much difference.
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Sounds like a solid plan.
I'd just make double sure that's a legally squared away sbr since there's a good chance it'll wind up in evidence.
Nice rifle!
A malinois is a 2-4 hour a day investment for a marathon runner. I would never recommend one for someone who doesn't have a pressing professional reason where they are getting paid for their time with the dog. Imagine a dog that tends towards aggressiveness and has the stamina of a 4 year old kid on meth and sugar cookies.
GSD/DS are better, but the GSD's have been having extremely variable outcomes here in the states. I would get one from overseas and it will be better at keeping to the breed markers than an American one.
Nice MK18 - it'll serve you well. Consider some ear pro on it you can slip on.
Go take a civilian home defense or CQB course. Failing that, watch these videos to get you some basics to work with. There is a whole series from UFPRO.
I'm also going to add that you can buy an Airsoft rifle that is identical in every way to your MK18 and use it to practice in your home. I use wardrobe boxes with targets on them to catch the pellets from the rifle inside the box. Just beware the pellets will break your windows, tv's, etc. And wear fucking eye pro. Serious eye pro.
Never clear your home alone - if something is going on move to shelter, call the cops. Knowing how to do solo CQB is best for a pressing situation, like you hear your wife in distress inside and need to do something now. I lived in an extremely high crime area for work and eventually painted my bedroom door red so I could tell the cops we were behind the red door if I needed them to show up. 2 home invasions at that place and one instance of them shooting up my cars and house.
Everyone wants these dirtbags to see justice, and knows they won't get it except from the barrel of your gun. But...shooting someone sucks before, during, and after.
Belgians are absolute LUNATICS. Please do not get one unless you absolutely have the resources/understanding necessary to own one. Paying for training, even consistently, is not sufficient unless you are going through the training as well and building a relationship with it.
They are unbelievable animals, but a vast majority of people do not understand a fraction of the commitment they require. Civs should be required to pass proficiency tests to own them as far as I’m concerned.
Seems like you have a solid contingency plan otherwise.
They are unbelievable animals, but a vast majority of people do not understand a fraction of the commitment they require. Civs should be required to pass proficiency tests to own them as far as I’m concerned.
Seems like you have a solid contingency plan otherwise.
In my area, most of the break-ins are Bears 
. A pretty effective deterrent is a sheet of plywood with a hundred nails poking up. Place that in the most likely path of a break-in, and suddenly the Bear learns to go somewhere else that is less painful.
Are all three of your break-ins through the same entry point, if so, I would try the sheet of plywood with nails behind the door.
. A pretty effective deterrent is a sheet of plywood with a hundred nails poking up. Place that in the most likely path of a break-in, and suddenly the Bear learns to go somewhere else that is less painful.Are all three of your break-ins through the same entry point, if so, I would try the sheet of plywood with nails behind the door.
I wouldn’t put too much merit into the attack dog thing, no more than setting boobietraps, might get the asshole, might get a random
Little dogs are good, a min pin is a crazy good alarm system, rest is up to you
Little dogs are good, a min pin is a crazy good alarm system, rest is up to you
FYI on the boobytraps, in many places they are illegal. Around here a business owner got charged I believe for having boards with nails sticking up through them on the inside of his fence…cops came for an alarm and had to jump the fence for some reason, and one got a nail through the foot. If they come back and you need HPD right away, best not to disable them.
Awesome,
Sounds like a great plan, I would only recommend you doing a little research on dutch and Belgium's, Great dogs, but going from a lab to a Mal is pretty significant leap in terms of owner requirements. Again wonderful dogs for the right scenario, but you have to understand that these guys are going to be walking around on red line ready to work.
I would suggest doing a little research on GSD's Dobermans, Rotties, or Akitas as they are not quite the canine equivalent of the ultimate warrior, but all have histories of being great protection dogs that are a little more family friendly.
All in all good luck and get the hell out of the cities.
Sounds like a plan. As far as the dog goes, just make damn sure you are ready for the kind of commitment that really does take (paying a trainer or not). If you get a dog that can actually be a guard dog, you and everyone in the house had better be on the same page and 100% committed to the time and energy that dog will take. It's very different than just have a lab.
I wish you very well bud, and I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this because of leftist DA's not doing their job. It's a sad state of affairs, just don't let the urgency of wanting to do something (which I totally understand)push you into something that you just aren't prepared to do. I really do hope you get this figured out man.
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Yeah - the language usually says such things as "anything that will harm a person without being actuated by another person" type thing. So your automated gun turrets are right out....unless they have a video remote control system and then its all good to go as long as you are pushing the button.
You are the fifth or sixth person that said this so now I am listening carefully. There is a retired AF trainer here in Houston that sells dogs in various levels of training and a couple of different breeds. I am going to speak with him today and let him know what I want and what level of effort I am willing to put into a dog, I will let you know what he says.
In my area, most of the break-ins are Bears
Are all three of your break-ins through the same entry point, if so, I would try the sheet of plywood with nails behind the door.
The Law of Booby Traps in Texas for Those Left Home Alone | JD Supra
The rule in Texas (and other states) is that setting a booby trap is permissible if and only if the facts are such that the property owner could have...
www.jdsupra.com
Then I'll be the seventh person when it comes to choosing a dog. Yes, Mals are amazing dogs and have not had their working lines diluted like many other breeds. But they have massive amounts of drive (a good thing in a working dog but makes them tough to live with as a pet). As to German Shepherds, which I know something about having owned a half dozen of them over the last 30 years, as King says there is tremendous variability within the breed. Most American Shepherds are no longer working dogs, they are show dogs. You need to focus on working line dogs, who will have parents/grandparents who come from West Germany, East Germany (and yes there's a difference) Holland or Czechoslovakia. AF trainer should be able to help you here, but you need to be honest about the level of training you are willing to do and how "serious" a dog you want.
Oh and the MK18 is a great choice, particularly if you're willing to do some training to get comfortable with the platform and put some thought into what ammo you're going to use for home defense. (For training use whatever is cheap and available like PMC X-TAC of some version of XM193).
Finally, sad commentary on the state of the world that you are forced to move from your current home because our justice system is not prosecuting these kind of crimes - with all too predictable results.
Oh and the MK18 is a great choice, particularly if you're willing to do some training to get comfortable with the platform and put some thought into what ammo you're going to use for home defense. (For training use whatever is cheap and available like PMC X-TAC of some version of XM193).
Finally, sad commentary on the state of the world that you are forced to move from your current home because our justice system is not prosecuting these kind of crimes - with all too predictable results.
Not to line up as number 8 but I have a Mal that I handle for DHS Search and Rescue (we were in Huston for Harvey). They are phenomenal dogs but they get bored easily if they don't have a job and can also find things to entertain themselves (like eating through doors, ask me how I know.) Even for SAR work, we recommend that new handlers start with a Lab or similar sporting dog to get their dog handling skills down before graduating to a Malinois if they so desire. I trained 4 other dogs before I got Elmo. He is a sweetheart with us but an asshole with folks he doesn't know well.
I hope the AF can help you find a good dog. Most of the deterant is going to be how they sound when someone comes to the house. Getting a bite dog brings on a whole new level of liability. I also would be crushed if someone breakig in shot one of my dogs an would probably go all John Wick on the person......
It's aa shame how all the big cities are going to crap due to woke DA offices and leadership. We can only hope the pendulum will start to swing back to normal.
I hope the AF can help you find a good dog. Most of the deterant is going to be how they sound when someone comes to the house. Getting a bite dog brings on a whole new level of liability. I also would be crushed if someone breakig in shot one of my dogs an would probably go all John Wick on the person......
It's aa shame how all the big cities are going to crap due to woke DA offices and leadership. We can only hope the pendulum will start to swing back to normal.
Yea, and the Kings men should have to be held personally responsible and liable for what their dogs do.
Historically speaking chances are it will be the King's Men or the King's soldiers that you'll be needing to go all angel of vengeance on in regards to your dog...
Okay, I see you've pretty much put together a plan of action and congrats on the MK18.
I'd also grab one of these
Put a light, a sling, and a red dot on it and grab a couple CSSPECS 10 round mags.
If its taken into evidence, you'll be out a lot less $ than the MK18.
I'd also grab one of these
Put a light, a sling, and a red dot on it and grab a couple CSSPECS 10 round mags.
If its taken into evidence, you'll be out a lot less $ than the MK18.
Ill say this. I had two life changing events that completely remodeled my expectations towards this type of thing.
1. I drove my race truck off a mountain when the road turned out to be gone permanently.
2. I got into a thing with drug addicts where the guys 12 gauge shotgun blast hit 3 ft to my right and I had a fucking Bushmaster to deal with it. Instead of my well kitted out scar 16.
The race truck was wrecked but I walked away from a 200ft fall unscathed. $125k trashed, but nothing else was gonna have been able to save my life like that. And I got out of the second thing alive but afterwards I looked at that Bushmaster and was thinking “how the fuck did I end up defending my life with a $400 AR15. fuck.”.
So now when air traveling I bring the goddamn $5000 rifle and if it ends up in evidence and Im freaking out about it…its because it worked and I didnt get my brains blown the fuck out by methbillies.
Don’t buy a cheaper gun because you are afraid of losing it. It became a bullet point “things that are meant to save your life should be the most expensive and capable thing you can afford in that slot”
Yeah. It worked. I would have still appreciated a better gun in my hand. One I knew was zerod for instance.
If it wasn't zeroed, it wasn't a rifle issue, it was an operator issue.
Bushmasters work fine, they aren't gucci.
Absolutely NOTHING wrong with running high end gear.
If that's your comfort zone, run with it.
In this case my failure was getting on the plane without MY stuff. Never again. If I had to malfunction drill that gun I woulda been reaching forward for the charging handle and been fucked.
I have one. Its well made and ready to rock. It was oddly enough better than the Saiga 12 I have thats an SBS. The USA made Kalashnikov ones are all CNC machined and great as well, but quite a bit more expensive. I also have the RIA VR80 and was impressed. Very functional.
My current "go fuck yourself gun" is a fully kitted out 14.5 LMT piston MARS-L gun however, and it for sure is gonna be the one in my hands if someone needs fucked up. It shoots .5moa, has a nice 1-8 on it, and is all kitted out for night fighting. I train with it as much as my health allows.
This is the dumbest advice. I hate this argument. Its like buying 2 hammers and using the shittiest one so you dont lose your "good" hammer.
The buckshot won't work against soft armor - and more baddies are wearing it these days. And the 556 will generally grenade inside your wall while the buck is gonna keep going.
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???
I'm not sure I'd want to bet on a soft armor vest stopping a FMJ or green tip or solid 5.56 at close range, just saying.
Maybe out of a super short pistol barrel, but out of a full length rifle barrel that seems like a stretch.
I fucked that up - it was the other way around. Tired today.
We tested 12 gauge buck, slugs, 556 m193, and .300 BO subs and supers against some IIIA armor panels. The buckshot was stopped with dead certainty. it stopped the slug, but the amount of force involved was no bueno. I think you still would have died.
Oddly, the .300BO subs penetrated. Not just one but two panels entirely. And of course the supers were great.
I have personally seen how a homes walls does against light 556 rounds from an SBR and its amazing how that shit fragments. I would just about WANT a .300 BO if I was in an all hostility environment so I could shoot through walls and have it work better.
Don't know much about the S12 - I assume it's an AK47 style shotgun with an detachable magazine. For semi-autos I'm personally fond of the Beretta 1301. Very reliable. Handles well, particularly if you're used to a traditional shotgun. Good trigger. But even if you add an extended tube you do have limited capacity and reloads take practice. And of course there are issues with penetration. But for shear destructive capability they are tough to beat.
So as long as you use the clacker than this is gtg?
M18>MK18
ETA the back blast might be a bit of a bitch.
With property/moving and buying new houses and such being *really* expensive with no guarantee you aren't moving to another hot spot, my advice is to invest in hardening the home you already own. Probably cheaper than moving. You can make it virtually impenetrable and bullet proof - as The Republic crashes this shit is going to become very common even in places we would expect to be relatively safe. Home invasions are rising exponentially and it'll likely get worse, not better, in the near future.
I have not had issues where I am yet the house is hard, the doors are always locked, and both of us are always armed (even when taking out the trash, cutting the grass, cleaning etc.) with back up weapons and reloads scattered thru the house. There are no kids here (ever) so we have a small advantage that way. No idea what I'd do if there were kids around because if you look closely there is a pistol within 6' virtually anywhere in the house - especially basements and bathrooms.
Harden the home you have is my advice. And arm yourself.....and train. Hire professionals to help you get the place hardened if needed. Suppressors on primary weapons unless, like me, you can't legally own them, and then hearing protection close at hand. There are muffs all over and in-the-ear stuff on every key ring.
If you make the house hard and use lighting and fencing to best advantage many BG's are gonna go across the street to avoid being shot/caught. Keep all signs of affluence hidden. Sorry.....parking a $100K automobile on the street or exposed will be seen by people you don't want seeing it. We use basic handguns and have M4's, 9mm PCC, and shotguns and my grab it and go is a 20" barrel 20 gauge double barrel with buckshot sitting in the kitchen out of sight between stove and 'fridge backed with my 9mm Beretta PX4's.
Good luck to the OP. I'd not move - I'd just harden the home you own and buckle up as we have done here.
VooDoo
I have not had issues where I am yet the house is hard, the doors are always locked, and both of us are always armed (even when taking out the trash, cutting the grass, cleaning etc.) with back up weapons and reloads scattered thru the house. There are no kids here (ever) so we have a small advantage that way. No idea what I'd do if there were kids around because if you look closely there is a pistol within 6' virtually anywhere in the house - especially basements and bathrooms.
Harden the home you have is my advice. And arm yourself.....and train. Hire professionals to help you get the place hardened if needed. Suppressors on primary weapons unless, like me, you can't legally own them, and then hearing protection close at hand. There are muffs all over and in-the-ear stuff on every key ring.
If you make the house hard and use lighting and fencing to best advantage many BG's are gonna go across the street to avoid being shot/caught. Keep all signs of affluence hidden. Sorry.....parking a $100K automobile on the street or exposed will be seen by people you don't want seeing it. We use basic handguns and have M4's, 9mm PCC, and shotguns and my grab it and go is a 20" barrel 20 gauge double barrel with buckshot sitting in the kitchen out of sight between stove and 'fridge backed with my 9mm Beretta PX4's.
Good luck to the OP. I'd not move - I'd just harden the home you own and buckle up as we have done here.
VooDoo
Besides the pumps in the chest, my 2 Vepr 12's are AK based 12 ga. shotguns w/detachable mags. I've recently made a switch after thinking long and hard to a different slug and relegating my deep penetrator slugs to back up in the 10 rd. mags.
I've got the new rounds in the 5 rd. mags enabling the V12's to fit in my table cruiser ready, w/2 8 rd mags of the the same ammo at the ready.
I went to this ammo to address the overpenetration issue, and because of the incredible expansion these slugs have w/o fragmenting, even when they shot up the near frozen pork in the video.
They're big hollowpoints that fan out and still stay together.
www.bing.com
The guy in the video who sells them calls them one thing, but these are the folks that actually make these
This ammo in 2 my8 round V12 mags
I've started to spend more and more time out in the country and loving it. I've gotten these powerhouse slugs and have an 8 round mag loaded up, which is sitting in the chest, but don't anticipate ever reaching for it in an urban setting.
detroitammoco.com
2 things impressed me about this slug, which was the four "rockets" as it plows thru an 1 1/2" of lead plate, and the way it dragged the vest inside the body cavity in the 50 yrd. test. Somebody tell me that wouldn't be fatal.
I don't experiment w/a lot of different slugs and it's been years since I have, but fhese 2 slugs got me to thinking long and hard and I thought they had real advantages for my situation so they're loaded up in V12's. The 870 police pumps are loaded up w/Federral low recoil flite control 1 buck.
And yes, I've got 2 HK MR762A1 rifles in the mix.
I've got the new rounds in the 5 rd. mags enabling the V12's to fit in my table cruiser ready, w/2 8 rd mags of the the same ammo at the ready.
I went to this ammo to address the overpenetration issue, and because of the incredible expansion these slugs have w/o fragmenting, even when they shot up the near frozen pork in the video.
They're big hollowpoints that fan out and still stay together.
shotgun slugs - Search Videos
The guy in the video who sells them calls them one thing, but these are the folks that actually make these
This ammo in 2 my8 round V12 mags
I've started to spend more and more time out in the country and loving it. I've gotten these powerhouse slugs and have an 8 round mag loaded up, which is sitting in the chest, but don't anticipate ever reaching for it in an urban setting.
389gr Ballistic Machinist Brass Slug - Detroit Ammo Co.
Shop 389gr Ballistic Machinist Brass Slug at Detroit Ammo Co.! Condition: New Shell Length: 2-3/4"Slug Weight: 389grSlug.
detroitammoco.com
389 grain ballistic machinist video - Bing video
www.bing.com
389 grain ballistic machinist video - Bing video
2 things impressed me about this slug, which was the four "rockets" as it plows thru an 1 1/2" of lead plate, and the way it dragged the vest inside the body cavity in the 50 yrd. test. Somebody tell me that wouldn't be fatal.
I don't experiment w/a lot of different slugs and it's been years since I have, but fhese 2 slugs got me to thinking long and hard and I thought they had real advantages for my situation so they're loaded up in V12's. The 870 police pumps are loaded up w/Federral low recoil flite control 1 buck.
And yes, I've got 2 HK MR762A1 rifles in the mix.
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By your logic .50 BMG is a superior cartridge for CQC/HD but we all know how dumb that sounds.
I guess since an all hostile free fire zone is not something one normally has the freedom to enjoy I guess you could do a bit of both by like having the .223 and having different mags with different rounds for fun or carrying as a backup, a long barrel .45 or 10mm pistol with Underwood Extreme Penetrators
There could also be an option to go with a .300 blk and carry varmint rounds in one mag and some solids in another.
So the kings men trespassed, fucked around and got a tetanus shot, and it’s a fault of the man who’s property they trespassed?
Oh Lordy
Do you have some links to baddies wearing armor?
I remember the BLM bs, was in shithole Atlanta for a trip, lots of idiots with plate carriers on, no plates, saw one with a pmag and no AR
They were called there by his own alarm. I don’t recall if the alarm was false or legit but they were required to check the premises…slow your roll Turbo.
'Booby trap' bill fixes loophole after Wyoming officer is impaled by decking screws
A western Michigan lawmaker wants to make it a felony to set a booby trap like the bed of screws that injured a Wyoming police officer investigating a February break-in at a marijuana grow operation.
www.wzzm13.com
I guess he wasn’t charged because MI law only covers more active devices.
'Booby trap' bill fixes loophole after Wyoming officer is impaled by decking screws
A western Michigan lawmaker wants to make it a felony to set a booby trap like the bed of screws that injured a Wyoming police officer investigating a February break-in at a marijuana grow operation.
I guess he wasn’t charged because MI law only covers more active devices.
Why is it a “loophole” when it benefits the citizen
And “it just the law” when it benefits the state
As the owner of not one, but two Belgian Malinois litter mates around 15 months old who never leave my side, i would listen carefully to everyone warning you about getting one.
They are beyond amazing watch and guard dogs. But they also have ridiculous amounts of energy and constantly want to be physically and mentally stimulated. Combine a super high energy level with very high intelligence and it is a recipe for all kinds of mischief unless you are basically with them all of the time. Mine have figured out from watching me how to open drawers and cabinets in my house, and they love to destroy what they can get their paws on.
Can you devote tons of time every day to them? Do you want to devote that much of your day to them? Unless you really love dogs and have the time and energy to be with it all day, I would say another breed is a wise idea.
They are beyond amazing watch and guard dogs. But they also have ridiculous amounts of energy and constantly want to be physically and mentally stimulated. Combine a super high energy level with very high intelligence and it is a recipe for all kinds of mischief unless you are basically with them all of the time. Mine have figured out from watching me how to open drawers and cabinets in my house, and they love to destroy what they can get their paws on.
Can you devote tons of time every day to them? Do you want to devote that much of your day to them? Unless you really love dogs and have the time and energy to be with it all day, I would say another breed is a wise idea.
Also, you may already know this, but the malinois and Dutch shepherd breeds are very closely related. Malinois were actually bred with Dutch shepherds after ww2 to help save the breed from dying off, and there is a lot of mixture between the two. Whatever we say about a malinois dog also applies for Dutch shepherds.
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