This^^^^^^^^^
I’m setting the over/under at 12 months from today for the big splash major media launch of the new 147 gr match bullet from Hornady: The 147 gr ELD-M-PRS-Elite .................
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Range Report Hornady 147 ELDM blowing up
- Thread starter hic28
- Start date
This^^^^^^^^^
I’m setting the over/under at 12 months from today for the big splash major media launch of the new 147 gr match bullet from Hornady: The 147 gr ELD-M-PRS-Elite .................
I have followed it from the beginning because the title caught my attention. The 147g ELD's are my go to projectiles. I have shot close to 500 of them alone this year, both in factory ammo which is 2690 fps and in reloads pushing mid-2800 fps with no issues, like many others that have also commented on this thread with no issues. I can't apologize for not having failures and neither can others only to say, too bad, so sad you're having them. Just because 2 or 300 hundred people have a blow out and are using Firestone or Goodyear tires doesn't cause them to sit up and be alarmed either. A lot of variables can cause that. Unfortunately the burden of proof often falls to the victim to prove the tire was the problem, same with Hornady probably. Not taking their side, just can't apologize for the many hundreds of people shooting them that are not having failures. If they have been alerted to the problem as you said, and they play dumb, then move on, they obviously aren't taking these claims or issues seriously and probably wont. How many here have had primers that were duds, or powder that was questionable? It can happen, but even if you have 4 or 5 primers out of a box of 1000 that fail, do you think that is going to make CCI or Federal do anything...? Maybe somebody famous like Jerry Miculek needs to do a video showing these bullets failing to get their attention. All I can say is that i've shot more than enough myself to have issues and haven't and so have many others. They work for me and others, if they don't work for you then move on for a while and try them again later. If they still don't work there are plenty of other options out there for you....
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Your summary was inaccurate and does not reflect the preponderance of the posts in this thread. Simple as that.I was SUMMARIZING....obviously there are outliers who have had issues with factory ammo out of factory guns, but they are generally not the rule, and other outliers who have been shooting them faster than 2700fps have had no problems, but they generally are not the rule either.
What I don't understand is why folks continue to bitch and moan about how bad 147's are even after they have already decided to go shoot other bullets. They work for some people, they don't work for other - if you feel the need to use a different bullet no problem, make the change and move on with life. I will happily keep using them until I have one disintegrate, but until that happens I have no reason to change. I shot factory 147gr at the Snipers Hide Cup this year and every shot I missed was my fault and not the bullet'sI would be much more convinced to switch to a Berger if people spent their time posting range reports and tales of how awesome Bergers are versus being drama queens and telling everyone else how sucky Hornady bullets are.
I’m not saying that anyone should change nor telling them what to do, just don’t paint reality with a rose colored brush.
Oh, and for the record...wait for it...I don’t even shoot many Hornady bullets at all except the many 285gr BTHPs that I bought years ago and push hard in my .338 LM and the 88gr .224s. No issues with either.
I just am trying to keep people from stating blatant untruths as facts or summaries.
Oh, another thing. I spend a lot of time spotting for newer long range shooters and just recently have been seeing a rash of the factory Loaded 147s going poof when shot out of factory barrels. I don’t need to be convinced either.
I was SUMMARIZING....obviously there are outliers who have had issues with factory ammo out of factory guns, but they are generally not the rule, and other outliers who have been shooting them faster than 2700fps have had no problems, but they generally are not the rule either.
What I don't understand is why folks continue to bitch and moan about how bad 147's are even after they have already decided to go shoot other bullets. They work for some people, they don't work for other - if you feel the need to use a different bullet no problem, make the change and move on with life. I will happily keep using them until I have one disintegrate, but until that happens I have no reason to change. I shot factory 147gr at the Snipers Hide Cup this year and every shot I missed was my fault and not the bullet's
Did you win the SH match this year?? Asking a friend....
@hic28 and I placed 4th... that’s because he had to use someone else’s rifles, who was also using it at the match, because Hornady Factory ammo couldn’t make it pas
And in case you or anyone didn’t get the hint... I won the NF ELR Match using Berger Bullets.
How’s that for “posting range reports and tales of how awesome Bergers are”...
Haha, heck no I wasn't even close to winning - I made that point to show that in identical outside circumstances a bullet worked flawlessly for some people and terribly for other. I think we all agree that Hornady should do a better job of vetting products before releasing them into wild - but now people know thanks to this thread and can make adjustments as necessary. To anyone just getting in to the long range game and they're looking for ammo, my answer to them would be "147's work terribly for some people and awesome for others, proceed at your own risk".
The premise I'm trying to dissuade is the assumption that "all 147's blow up, no matter what speed you shoot them or what you shoot them out of".
Congrats on winning the NF match - chalk another win up to Bergers
The premise I'm trying to dissuade is the assumption that "all 147's blow up, no matter what speed you shoot them or what you shoot them out of".
Congrats on winning the NF match - chalk another win up to Bergers
That’s why I didn’t bother contacting them.
I just switched to bullets I have confidence in.
I used to be a Hornandy fan boy.
Had they acknowledged the issue I still might be.
I wonder how many more 6.5CM folks running much slower are going to try and convince people there are not issues with the bullet.
It has been folks running 6.5PRC, or reloading in other variants but running faster. I had massive issues with 6.5prc factory ammo in a saaami chamber, bartlein barrel. I had zero issues in my 6.5cm saami running much slower.
It has been folks running 6.5PRC, or reloading in other variants but running faster. I had massive issues with 6.5prc factory ammo in a saaami chamber, bartlein barrel. I had zero issues in my 6.5cm saami running much slower.
Your reading comprehension is in question, 147 factory ammo coming apart in 6.5prc, they control the load.
I understand the factory ammo aspect also. Since they dont seem to be acknowledging an issue at all, switch to something else until they do. Because obviously continuing to shoot their ammo isn't working at those speeds.
The title to this thread says, "147g ELDM blowing up"! What were you saying about reading comprehension....
Exactly.
That’s what chaps me the worst. The lack of ownership of the issue even existing. Any other company owner, or at least a rep, would’ve spoke up quickly on here and other sites acknowledging the problem like an adult.
when can I expect to have my money returned for all the factory ammo sitting on my shelf?
What’s your shipping address? $2.50/round + shipping sound fair in this climate sound fair? You sound happy to use it since you haven’t experienced any issues. I think I’ve still got 250-300 rounds
and yes, Lots of us switched to berger and nosler as indicated above. With lapua making 6.5prc brass now I won’t have to ever use hornady components for 6.5prc.
all my 300prc will be switching to Lapua/berger as well.
They will switch it out to other ammo, I had them send me the eldx prc rounds, haven't heard issues with those, and then have the brass.
I'm not having issues with them, and more than a few that have posted here aren't either. People that are having issues are getting mad at people that aren't having issues. Sorry that you and others are having issues. But myself and those that aren't are just relaying our experiences with them, nothing more. So dont get mad because others aren't having problems with them like you are.
I’m not mad.
I’m just not buying anymore 130, 147, 180 and 285 eldm’s or 190 a tips.
My greatest disappointment is Hornady’s refusal to acknowledge the issue.
Epic CS fail.
Epic CS fail.
Not mad either, just clarifying that people using their recipe in 6.5prc are in large numbers compared to any quality metric.
They are either ignoring it or running a silent recall, which they are and replacing ammo once you make the case.
All good.
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Definitely not mad. In fact, you wanna buy all my left over 147 ELDM’s??? I’d be happy for someone that’s having better luck with them than I did.
So I finally got my 6.5CM out to the range. Finished the build a few weeks ago after having the parts for a while. It's a 22" Craddock upper Bartlein @ 1/7.5 twist. Shooting the Hornady Match 147g.
So, lets start with the good news. Sight in was almost too easy. My Minox didn't even have to be adjusted to get to spot on the paper for setting a 100 yard zero at 25 yards. Then, I started shooting. First hole I was like...no way I don't need any adjustment!! Second hole...what second hole....3rd hole...well, maybe I see it. 4th hole..well, shooter error (yes, at 25 yards). Holes 1-2 were literally on top of each other with hole 3 off by 3mm!!! I was happy.
So, trying to keep round count down to break it in and then clean, I go to the 400 yard range to ring some steel. First shot...nothing. 2nd shot, hit IPSC target. 3rd shot, nothing, 4th shot nothing and I intentionally shot well below target (about now I'm like...round count dude...break in), 5th shot...nothing, 6th and last shot (nothing). I asked the two guys sitting down the way if they saw any impacts. NOPE...saw none, heard none, nothing. So, I'm concerned with 2 things: 1) I went with 1/7.5 because I wanted to shoot the 147g and even the newer stuff in the 150s. 2) I hope I'm not one of these people where 147gr are blowing apart.
Guy at the range was like...I shoot 147 all the time and never a single issue..."I've never even heard of that issue (where the hell has he been) and I don't believe it based on my experience and my dad's.
I'm going to clean the rifle up and try again on Thursday, maybe back it up to 200 yard plates or even 100 yard. Take these 147gr and some 143gr ELD-X I have.
If Hornady has this big of a problem, they're getting ready to lose a customer for life. I made sure to buy 200 almost every time I restocked other ammo. Yes, I put my eggs in one basket, I admit it. But one would think the people that brought it to market would be able to produce a bullet that works!!
So, lets start with the good news. Sight in was almost too easy. My Minox didn't even have to be adjusted to get to spot on the paper for setting a 100 yard zero at 25 yards. Then, I started shooting. First hole I was like...no way I don't need any adjustment!! Second hole...what second hole....3rd hole...well, maybe I see it. 4th hole..well, shooter error (yes, at 25 yards). Holes 1-2 were literally on top of each other with hole 3 off by 3mm!!! I was happy.
So, trying to keep round count down to break it in and then clean, I go to the 400 yard range to ring some steel. First shot...nothing. 2nd shot, hit IPSC target. 3rd shot, nothing, 4th shot nothing and I intentionally shot well below target (about now I'm like...round count dude...break in), 5th shot...nothing, 6th and last shot (nothing). I asked the two guys sitting down the way if they saw any impacts. NOPE...saw none, heard none, nothing. So, I'm concerned with 2 things: 1) I went with 1/7.5 because I wanted to shoot the 147g and even the newer stuff in the 150s. 2) I hope I'm not one of these people where 147gr are blowing apart.
Guy at the range was like...I shoot 147 all the time and never a single issue..."I've never even heard of that issue (where the hell has he been) and I don't believe it based on my experience and my dad's.
I'm going to clean the rifle up and try again on Thursday, maybe back it up to 200 yard plates or even 100 yard. Take these 147gr and some 143gr ELD-X I have.
If Hornady has this big of a problem, they're getting ready to lose a customer for life. I made sure to buy 200 almost every time I restocked other ammo. Yes, I put my eggs in one basket, I admit it. But one would think the people that brought it to market would be able to produce a bullet that works!!
When you go back, I suggest 100y with a partner on glass of looking with a naked eye and mobile video with slow motion. Focused short of the target and looking for oddities. Also clean target board, to see them coming apart and keyholing at that distance.
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I'm new to this LR game; but, seeing as how I can hit an IPSC plate (no real challenge) with a RDS on a 5.56 AR-15 and cannot hit it with the 6.5 means either my zero ain't the zero I think it is, or the bullets are flying apart. I'll get motivated to swab the barrel clean and proceed. Craddock said 6-10 rounds and clean...then have fun. I'll probably do 20 more and clean; but I'm getting the feeling it's the old POOF problem.
. Simply put, 400 yards should not be a problem for me. Now, on my old toy with the old peep sight with a 2-4 moa dot..yes...dot's bigger than target
. I'll go get some posterboard at wally world tonight and put it at 100 meters, draw some crude targets on it (range store went out of "bidness."). Thanks for the suggestion!!
No problems with the 6.5 147 ELD-M at creedmoor velocities here, but I have had about a 10% blow up rate with 88 grain 224 eld-m bullets pushed above 2800 FPS from a 6.5 twist 224 predator barrel. The blow up issue is not limited to one bullet, caliber, or weight. It seems to be a larger design issue...
I would be interested in the 100 bullets. PM me your price and we'll discuss it. Thank you!
Are they actually replacing the ammunition (match stuff for me) or just bullets? I'm going to try to hit the range today but somebody scheduled a meeting at work this afternoon - don't they know I work 2 shifts now? !! Before range/exercise and after range/exercise!
Yes, I chose to move away from the eldm 147 to the 143eldx, 40 down the pipe yesterday all hit the targets, small sample.
I may give them a call. I have a few of the ELDx as during the pre-
Jury still out on mine. However, I found the reason I believe. I'm not sure how walking from the 50 yard range to the 400 yard range shifted my zero other than I put it back in its case, but today at 100meter impact was about 12" high!!!!! USER ERROR!!!!!!!!!!! DOHHHHHHHHH.
That's not to say I'm not going to have problems. For now, it looks like it may be totally on me and I'll take that 8 days a week.
That's not to say I'm not going to have problems. For now, it looks like it may be totally on me and I'll take that 8 days a week.
The reason so many people keep chiming in is because.
Cant push them reliably to the speeds we want
We want a reliable bullet, batch to batch, barrel to barrel
Its great they work for you. Atleast so far. There are guys here that shoot them still but its a known issue. We all know they may work but for what we spend on ammo why take the chance in many cases. The disappearing bullet scenario randomly showing up at a march or on a hunt is no bueno!!!! So many choices for bullets why take the chance.
Agreed. I had purchased 2,000 rounds of factory loaded ammo while I had the chance. Others can laugh at me for making that big of purchase on untested ammo, but Hornady ammo has been great for me so far.
It was only after the ammunition was purchased that I read that the bullets were disintegrating. I was in a panic mode thinking I would end of up with 2,000 rounds of worthless ammunition.
If I had discovered the mystery of the disappearing bullets, beforehand, I would have also avoided them and resorted to other options.
If someone were asking me for advice on whether or not to purchase the 147 gr ELDM for reloading or in factory loads, I'd let the know about the problems that others are experiencing.
It would be a disservice to them to tell them of only the fantastic results I have been getting without the rest of the story.
I also sympathize with everyone who has complained to Hornady with no resolution despite it being a known issue.
I get aggravated with manufacturers who have known defects in there products and do nothing about it.
I will never buy another S&W firearm as long as I live. I found out, too late, that light primer strikes in the S&W 325 are well known. Yet the bozos at S&W tell me that my revolver was the first that they heard of it.
After I sent it back to them for the 4th time, I told them to shove it up their ass or reimburse me for what I paid for it. Apparently they could not find anyone willing enough to have a revolver shoved up their ass and would not pay me for it. I got it sitting in the drawer as I cannot trust it.
Beeman and Weihrauch have known for ages about a certain model airgun that has had problems but has done nothing about it. Yet complaints to the factory are met with a; "gosh, that's the first time that I've heard about something like that."
I got a case of Remington .22LR a long time ago and every other round was a miss-fire, in whatever gun it was fired in. I told my father about it. He replied that Remington sucked when he was a kid in the 1930s. Everyone but Remington knew how bad it was back then.
Now it seems that anytime you buy ammo for less than 13 cents a round it is guaranteed to miss fire on every other shot. The manufacturers know this but won't do anything to improve their product.
I also love it when you call customer service on whatever product that you are having problems with and the response is; "You must be doing something wrong."
Sorry for the rant but I just want everyone to know that I empathize with them. Who knows, I could be in the same camp after a few hundred rounds.
With this in mind, I wonder if a freebore/jump issue could be the problem?
Earlier, page #1, someone said that Hornady indicated the problem was due to overpressure. Powder wouldn’t explain factory loads erupting in some but not others, unless maybe heat was an issue. I’m shooting a 6.5 PRC with Berger reloads, with no problem, but did initial break-in with the factory 147’s with no issues and chrono’d at 2920ish out of a 7.5 gain twist RC barrel with a .188 freebore, which is what Hornady factory is supposed be, so I hear. (I chose this freebore to fit into a medium action receiver so I could load rounds longer, if needed.) But if overpressure IS the issue then maybe freebore, powder, primer? Just a thought. But otherwise I’m liking the Berger’s.
Maybe folks with problems could chime in about the freebore/jump lengths to see if there is any consistency there, or not.
Factory ammo in a saami chamber with a trusted reamer, done by trusted smiths?With this in mind, I wonder if a freebore/jump issue could be the problem?
Earlier, page #1, someone said that Hornady indicated the problem was due to overpressure. Powder wouldn’t explain factory loads erupting in some but not others, unless maybe heat was an issue. I’m shooting a 6.5 PRC with Berger reloads, with no problem, but did initial break-in with the factory 147’s with no issues and chrono’d at 2920ish out of a 7.5 gain twist RC barrel with a .188 freebore, which is what Hornady factory is supposed be, so I hear. (I chose this freebore to fit into a medium action receiver so I could load rounds longer, if needed.) But if overpressure IS the issue then maybe freebore, powder, primer? Just a thought. But otherwise I’m liking the Berger’s.
Maybe folks with problems could chime in about the freebore/jump lengths to see if there is any consistency there, or not.
@seansmd, New report
Well, I'm totally puzzled at this point. Go out to range twice in 2 days. Yesterday I had a few 147 ELDM's left, shot. 100 yards and who TF knows what the hell was happening. ON paper, but....... not where aimed, then it was where pointed, then not. I'm not talking 2" here, but 12-13" spread.
Back it up to 50 yards. Now into my 140gr ELDM. Slightly better but I fold up early as it got dark and range closed.
Today, I finished the 140's and they seemed to be nowhere near where I was shooting. I switched back to 147gr and moved target to 25 yards. 1" group. Not great, but at least it's going where scope says it should go. I move it out to 50 yards. Shoot at the middle of my poster board where I drew a circle of 1" diameter. WHERE THE F is the hole? Cannot find it. Shoot again...ahhh, there it is 14" down from the drawn circle. Shoot again, 5" over the circle. I know this isn't me. Not when every other gun I can, with correct ammo (I'll discount Aguilla 55g in a 223), group at least MOA with any rifle I own barely trying - at 100 yards and no rear bag (the table setup at the range sucks for rear bag). How can I take a 308 out, zero at 25, be 1-2 mils off at 100, sight in again at 100 in < 10 shots from unknown position and I've blown 60 rounds now and have no clue where these things go when launch...just somewhere in a poster-board sized target at random. BULLSHIT.
WTF...are they really going unstable at 50 yards?????? (not keyholed though)
Tomorrow, I'm going to make the time to take one box of 143gr ELD-X out there. If they group fine, then HORNADY is getting a call. I cannot afford to go shooting what is now 2 dollar a round ammo and it group like a fucking shotgun. If 143gr sucks, then Craddock is getting a call.
I'm starting at 25 yards, moving to 50. If I can get a group of 3 at 50, then I'll take to 100. After that, I'll take to 400 and see if I can hit a 12" plate.
Sadly, I'm not sure now if it's the barrel or the bullets. F'ing nuts.
This is souring my 6.5mm CM experience - totally.
Well, I'm totally puzzled at this point. Go out to range twice in 2 days. Yesterday I had a few 147 ELDM's left, shot. 100 yards and who TF knows what the hell was happening. ON paper, but....... not where aimed, then it was where pointed, then not. I'm not talking 2" here, but 12-13" spread.
Back it up to 50 yards. Now into my 140gr ELDM. Slightly better but I fold up early as it got dark and range closed.
Today, I finished the 140's and they seemed to be nowhere near where I was shooting. I switched back to 147gr and moved target to 25 yards. 1" group. Not great, but at least it's going where scope says it should go. I move it out to 50 yards. Shoot at the middle of my poster board where I drew a circle of 1" diameter. WHERE THE F is the hole? Cannot find it. Shoot again...ahhh, there it is 14" down from the drawn circle. Shoot again, 5" over the circle. I know this isn't me. Not when every other gun I can, with correct ammo (I'll discount Aguilla 55g in a 223), group at least MOA with any rifle I own barely trying - at 100 yards and no rear bag (the table setup at the range sucks for rear bag). How can I take a 308 out, zero at 25, be 1-2 mils off at 100, sight in again at 100 in < 10 shots from unknown position and I've blown 60 rounds now and have no clue where these things go when launch...just somewhere in a poster-board sized target at random. BULLSHIT.
WTF...are they really going unstable at 50 yards?????? (not keyholed though)
Tomorrow, I'm going to make the time to take one box of 143gr ELD-X out there. If they group fine, then HORNADY is getting a call. I cannot afford to go shooting what is now 2 dollar a round ammo and it group like a fucking shotgun. If 143gr sucks, then Craddock is getting a call.
I'm starting at 25 yards, moving to 50. If I can get a group of 3 at 50, then I'll take to 100. After that, I'll take to 400 and see if I can hit a 12" plate.
Sadly, I'm not sure now if it's the barrel or the bullets. F'ing nuts.
This is souring my 6.5mm CM experience - totally.
