Range Report Hornady 147 ELDM blowing up

[Vodoun daVinci]

I have been running the 147 gr. ELD-M's in hand loads at 2860 fpm...the most recent bunch I am now shooting were purchased just before the latest shortage really got cranked up...like April? I have run almost 500 of them and not one has blown up. I'm not saying it ain't happening - I'm saying there is more factors involved as contributors. It's a Savage 10 with a 24" barrel and 1 in 8 twist.

VooDoo

 

[Longshot231]

Dear Abby,

The guys on SH are scaring me. A bunch of them are having problems with 147 ELDMs blowing up after leaving the barrel.

I'm getting a rifle re-barreled to 6.5 CM with a 1:7 twist. I also ordered a bunch of 147 ELDM factory ammo.

Should I be worried? It's too late to switch to a slower twist barrel. I suppose that I could use the factory fodder in another rifle.

Should I use that as an excuse to get me another rifle and shoot heavier Bergers in the re-barreled rifle if the Hornady stuff doesn't work out?

Sincerely,

Longshot

 

[spife7980]

Yes to all of that. MORE.

 

[SD Carpenter]

They must have got the hunt I haven't seen 6.5 prc anywhere for months... Which is kind of the whole point of buying factory ammo lol

 

[hic28]

I decided to try the 144 gr Berger in my 6.5 CM. I have been using 147 ELDM without any problems but this thread has me spooked.

Anyone else successfully made this switch?

Any change in powder charge weight?

I made the change. first match shooting the Bergers I finished 2nd.

youll have to start over with load dev

 

[Scimitar]

I have several hundred 147s loaded for my 260 AI, and shot several hundred. It has been doing well, but...that is an older lot. A lot older. Glad I saw this thread. I will probably buy something else and work up a load to use from here out. Hornady telling customers basically that they are the problem is what gets me.

 

[XLR308]

The 147eldm is pretty much all I have shot in my only 6.5CM but the bullets are all from a lot produced 4-5 years ago and that may be the difference.
I have not experienced any failures but when my supply is depleted I will most likely be switching to the 140hybrid.
The barrel I'm running is a Bartlien 5r 1-7.5" twist finished at 23" and I don't run hot loads and stay around the wide node I see in this barrel that is between 2700-2740fps.

 

[CNC-Dude]

I have been running the 147 gr. ELD-M's in hand loads at 2860 fpm...the most recent bunch I am now shooting were purchased just before the latest shortage really got cranked up...like April? I have run almost 500 of them and not one has blown up. I'm not saying it ain't happening - I'm saying there is more factors involved as contributors. It's a Savage 10 with a 24" barrel and 1 in 8 twist.

VooDoo

I've been handloading the 147g ELD's in my RPR for over 6 months. I just bought 500 projectiles from a supplier and have shot close to 100 of them without issues. I'm pushing them around 2800 to 2850 FPS. The 147g ELD's have the best BC in that weight range and i'll keep using them until I have an issue. I think the OP was having problems because it was mentioned he was trying to push them at or above 3000 FPS in a 6.5 Creedmoor. I'm sorry others are having issues with them, but that isn't going to make me stop using them unless I also see failures. Could be operator error or maybe even a bad batch. If others are scarred, you can send me all of yours you have left....

 

[Steel head]

Lol
Many many people have had issues even with factory loads with the 147’s.
I’ve shot a buttload of 147’s then suddenly I had issues at reasonable 260 velocities.
Also while the BC is pretty good it’s not nearly as good as advertised.

 

[XLR308]

Lol
Many many people have had issues even with factory loads with the 147’s.
I’ve shot a buttload of 147’s then suddenly I had issues at reasonable 260 velocities.
Also while the BC is pretty good it’s not nearly as good as advertised.

Brother I do not deny or denounce the issues peeps are having with them but I will not say Hornady is dead.
They continue to innovate and push ahead and I will personally invest in companies that follow the path, are they perfect no but they push ahead regardless

 

[calshipbuilder]

Brother I do not deny or denounce the issues peeps are having with them but I will not say Hornady is dead.
They continue to innovate and push ahead and I will personally invest in companies that follow the path, are they perfect no but they push ahead regardless

Yes they push ahead, but they flat out ignore the issues their advancements cause. There's been zero official response to this despite overwhelming evidence of a real issue. Compare to Berger owning the thin jacket issue in the original match bullets (now their vld hunting line). I won't pay to be part of Hornady's development cycle.

 

[wil_pt]

I have shot hundreds of 147s in my 6.5 cm at 2840 fps with no problems. Barrel is 26 CBI 1/8 twist. I will continue to use them until I encounter these issues.

 

[hic28]

I think the OP was having problems because it was mentioned he was trying to push them at or above 3000 FPS in a 6.5 Creedmoor.

i was shooting factory loaded 6.5prc. 3k+ is out of a 30” bartlien 1:8 5r. I am not the only one who has seen this.

a buddy just went and did some testing shooting down a tunnel so there was zero environmental factors and saw some interesting marks on the paper at 100 yards

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

you mean like this
These were custom made 6.5's with jacket issues
Those that are popping bullets set up a target at 25 yds and see what shows up.

 

[Longshot231]

I and my friend shoot them from 1-7” @ 2860-2950 and never had one issue downrange. Could it be barrel specific? Damage while load very big neck tension?

What barrels are you using?

 

[Rob01]

Also while the BC is pretty good it’s not nearly as good as advertised.

Yup the Doppler testing lies. LOL

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

Yeah, if they didn't shoot so well for me I'd be tempted to be more wary but the damn things are laser beams for me after load work up. I wonder if we'll ever discover what the actual cause is but I suspect thin jackets being cut thru by some rifling and running them fast. They might have hyped the BC a bit but they still rock for me. Soon as I can get some more I'll keep banging them.

VooDoo

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Except for the extremes, which we're all familiar with, many things contribute to bullet failure. A change in the jacket whether by design or metallurgy is one cause. I fought that one myself. A combination of twist/RPM's/velocity, barrel temps, bullet bearing surface length, ogive length, bore condition and one I can't prove is the initial launch pressure with these new ELB's. ELB= extremely long bullets. I know it takes a great amount of pressure to get a bullet fully into a barrel. I did an experiment once with 6.5 bullets. I took a piece of barrel and cut a chamber then threaded it 7/8-14 to screw in a press. Then I made a punch to push bullets into the rifling. It took about three times the pressure it took to make the bullet in the first place to push them into the rifling.

 

[DMP]

Yeah, if they didn't shoot so well for me I'd be tempted to be more wary but the damn things are laser beams for me after load work up. I wonder if we'll ever discover what the actual cause is but I suspect thin jackets being cut thru by some rifling and running them fast. They might have hyped the BC a bit but they still rock for me. Soon as I can get some more I'll keep banging them.

VooDoo

Yeah the G7 list of .351 is to high for the 147. Mine adjusted is .331. Interestingly pretty close to Berger's list number (.335) which I verified out to 1000 yards yesterday.[/QUOTE]

 

[Rob01]

You guys understand the listed BC is a 200 yard BC and that is not going to be your long range BC right? It is the true BC for that velocity/range. That is part of the reason Hornady gives the banded BCs with velocity on their site but a better reason to use the Hornady 4Dof program which has a custom curve for the bullet so no need to input BCs.

 

[DMP]

You guys understand the listed BC is a 200 yard BC and that is not going to be your long range BC right? It is the true BC for that velocity/range. That is part of the reason Hornady gives the banded BCs with velocity on their site but a better reason to use the Hornady 4Dof program which has a custom curve for the bullet so no need to input BCs.

Thanks for the help!!

 

[Rob01]

NP. Here is the site if you wanted to look at them. Averaging the three wouldn’t be a bad single use number.

Ballistic Coefficient - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

A-Tip®, ELD® Match, and ELD-X® Ballistic Coefficient Values Hornady originally published “800 yard”* average Ballistic Coefficient (BC) values for ELD-X and ELD Match bullets. This was done to provide the most usable BC from a trajectory prediction st...

www.hornady.com

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

BC changes from barrel to barrel. Twist rate as well as land and groove profile have an affect. There are no absolutes.

 

[Timo Turl]

I’ve moved to Berger and don’t regret it for a second. Hornady is turning into a joke. First the Amax issues, then the 147gr and we are now hearing more reports of the 130gr and 108gr disintigrating.

 

[pkt1199]

I’ve moved to Berger and don’t regret it for a second. Hornady is turning into a joke. First the Amax issues, then the 147gr and we are now hearing more reports of the 130gr and 108gr disintigrating.

Where are the 108 reports, I've not heard it for those at all?

I've pushed 500 or so of them between 2950-3000 without issue, so would be interesting to see if I have problems at lot change or if others have had issues with the lighter bullets.

 

[Steel head]

Yup the Doppler testing lies. LOL

It doesn’t lie on the barrels they test it with.
they didn't test it with my barrel Or brake combination or thousands of others.

 

[Rob01]

It doesn’t lie on the barrels they test it with.
they didn't test it with my barrel Or brake combination or thousands of others.

Same could be said for any bullet by any manufacturer.

 

[Steel head]

Same could be said for any bullet by any manufacturer.

Yep!
But I do find Berger’s averaged BC to be a good bit more realistic.

 

[Timo Turl]

Where are the 108 reports, I've not heard it for those at all?

I've pushed 500 or so of them between 2950-3000 without issue, so would be interesting to see if I have problems at lot change or if others have had issues with the lighter bullets.

It’s was from a recent podcast. PRM I believe.

 

[GIXXER2000]

I have been running the 147 ELD-M in an 1-7 26 in 6.5cm barrel in my AIAX with no issues after about 220 rounds fired. I am getting 2805 AVG so not pushing them to hard. I tried the 153.5 Bergers but the 147 ELD-M just shot better.

 

[CNC-Dude]

I decided to try the 144 gr Berger in my 6.5 CM. I have been using 147 ELDM without any problems but this thread has me spooked.

Anyone else successfully made this switch?

Any change in powder charge weight?

My RPR rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor shoots both the factory 140g and 147g ELD's great, and shoots my handloads even better. I tried every combo possible to shoot the 144g Bergers and the comparable weight SMK and my rifle refuses to shoot those as well as the 140g or 147g ELD's. I even have tried the 143g ELD-X's and it wont shoot those either. Just send me your 147g ELD's and i'll shoot them for you at no charge! LOL

 

[sharac]

Lothar Walther 28" 1-7" with .260rem@2860 (max i can shoot is 2930 but anything beyond that loose primers or blown and case life below 5 reloads).

Using both Ballistics AE (8.4 - 330->770m/s and 310 <-770) and AppliedB (8.6) (PDM curve) getting spot on @1000m with true being highish 8.5mil.

Measured also with Shotmarker speeds of 1538fps@1000m (942mb pressure and 25°C weather).

 

[rd_kng]

Where are the 108 reports, I've not heard it for those at all?

I've pushed 500 or so of them between 2950-3000 without issue, so would be interesting to see if I have problems at lot change or if others have had issues with the lighter bullets.

I just got done experiencing the same problem with the Hornady 108 ELD-M's. It occurred in one box of ammo with only 5 bullets. I sent the rest of the box to Hornady and they finally replied to me and said they could not recreate the problem I was experiencing. They were definitely exploding at about 50 yards out. I had two different members from my club witness the issue. I use a Krieger 1 - 7.5 twist and a Remington action. The rifle has shot about 500 rds of Hornady 108 ELD-M ammo. Have not experienced any other issues. Hornady did send me a new box of ammo.

 

[Schw15]

Ive emailed hornady and called them about this problem they claimed they never heard of it but i talked to others and seen people post that they also talked to them and sent bullets in but they deny this ever happening. It happened to me with 180 eldm my buddy had 180 eldm blow up and i felt the other elms seem to have problems at longer ranges. I have shot hornady bullet my whole life from hunting to target now i dont own a hornady bullet switched to smk and have had better success. Note my dad still shoots the 208 eldms in 10 twist 300 win mag and has had great luck out to 1 mile so maybe hit or miss with the eldms

 

[DMP]

Does anyone know if the date of manufacture is contained in the lot number of these ELDM's.

I currently have the following numbers:
2181962
2192279
2200899

 

[pkt1199]

I just got done experiencing the same problem with the Hornady 108 ELD-M's. It occurred in one box of ammo with only 5 bullets. I sent the rest of the box to Hornady and they finally replied to me and said they could not recreate the problem I was experiencing. They were definitely exploding at about 50 yards out. I had two different members from my club witness the issue. I use a Krieger 1 - 7.5 twist and a Remington action. The rifle has shot about 500 rds of Hornady 108 ELD-M ammo. Have not experienced any other issues. Hornady did send me a new box of ammo.

That is unfortunate to hear! How fast are you running them?

They run so well in mine I hate to change at this point. That said, their handling and denial of this issue will definitely push me to something else after this barrel.

 

[Steel head]

Ive emailed hornady and called them about this problem they claimed they never heard of it but i talked to others and seen people post that they also talked to them and sent bullets in but they deny this ever happening. It happened to me with 180 eldm my buddy had 180 eldm blow up and i felt the other elms seem to have problems at longer ranges. I have shot hornady bullet my whole life from hunting to target now i dont own a hornady bullet switched to smk and have had better success. Note my dad still shoots the 208 eldms in 10 twist 300 win mag and has had great luck out to 1 mile so maybe hit or miss with the eldms

That’s why I’m phasing out Hornandy bullets.

 

[Carole Baskins]

I’m glad I found this thread. I had three 108s seemingly get a mind of their own two weeks ago at a club match and impact over 10 mils away from the plate. I’m running them at a blistering 2780 FPS in a 6 bra.

From the sounds of it, should I be glad they made it to the general vicinity of the target?

 

[CNC-Dude]

I bought a batch of (500) bulk Hornady 147g ELD projectiles to reload from Midsouth in Tennessee about a month ago. I shot close to 100 of them this past Saturday in two different RPR's out to 800 yards and saw no issues, as I haven't before either. I also bought and shot a box of Factory Hornady 147g ELD Match ammo with no issues either. I have shot a bunch of the 147g ELD's this year so far and haven't seen or even heard of any failures in them except on this forum. So I don't know if the issue is isolated to a particular region or batch numbers in ammo.

 

[rd_kng]

That is unfortunate to hear! How fast are you running them?

They run so well in mine I hate to change at this point. That said, their handling and denial of this issue will definitely push me to something else after this barrel.

I am running stock 108 ammo from Hornady, I would think they are around 2900 +. That is my only experience so I plan to continue . I also shoot the 6.5 Creedmoor 140 ELD-M and never had any problems with them.

 

[6.5teague]

At this point best thing to do is shoot Berger. This issue has been going on for some time now and no fix in sight. When you call, they blame everything but their product.

Have you ever tried Barnes match burner I have had good luck with the 140 and 145 gr I have creedmoor and prc never had this issue with either I shoot 900 yards never had one come apart bc on the 145 is 700

 

[DMP]

I have now sent over 6000 of the 147 ELDM thru 3 different Krieger 4 groove barrels at around 2750 fps. Everyone hit steel (or the dirt birm behind it). I hope my combination continues to work.

Well it is my turn ..... I am having POOFS on a regular basis. This stinks. Good thing is I found Berger 144 Hybred.

 

[lash]

Well it is my turn ..... I am having POOFS on a regular basis. This stinks. Good thing is I found Berger 144 Hybred.

Sorry to hear. I like how Hornady, more than all of the other big name ammo manufacturers, has supported the various shooting sports with regular availability and continuing introductions. I does concern me though that this issue has been occurring more recently and that there does not seem to be any serious follow up on Hornady’s part.

Even if there is a possible link between barrel condition and this issue, the mere fact that other bullet manufactures’ products do not exhibit this behavior is troubling. I do hope that they take this seriously and resolve it, whatever the cause.

 

[seansmd]

I have a service return open with 2 lots of factory eldm147 6.5prc sent back.

They asked for barrel manufacturer, barrel cut 4 or 5 groove, barrel length, twist, reamer manufacturer. Haven't heard back yet.

 

[lash]

I think that it’s good that they are trying to determine causal factors and it may be that they end up recommending maximum twist rates. However, there has to be more change than that if they want people to have complete confidence in their bullets. There are more than enough of these happenings to point to a bullet design/manufacturing issue. If it is never addressed on these levels and then communicated to the shooting public, it could leave them with a market black eye.

 

[Schw15]

They told me they never heard of that issue but ive talked to others who told them and they say same thing. Send us the bullets we will test them. Nothing ever gets done or they dont admit there is an issue doesn't look good on them. Ive hurt 285 eldm blowing 147 180 and a few of the eldx

 

[264win]

There are lots of hornady products I like, and imho they have been leading the industry in bringing new, relevant cartridges to the market. 17 hmr, 6mm arc, 6mm cm, 6.5 cm, 6.5 prc, just to name a few. So I am not here to bash Hornady.
Rather, to ask that they pull their head out of the sand, acknowledge the problem (s) and address them.
There are many threads about their bullet failures on every major precision shooting site.
They have known about the problem for at least a year, likely two or three and still claim ignorance.
Their reps here and elsewhere are silent on the issue.

Hornady, please makes some changes to your policy, and products ASAP.

 

[Steel head]

Well it is my turn ..... I am having POOFS on a regular basis. This stinks. Good thing is I found Berger 144 Hybred.

That’s the sucky part.
it’s not like it’s all bad and they fix it.
Some boxes do excellent then the next hoses you.
It’s a recurring issue that doesn’t get fixed.

 

[Steel head]

They told me they never heard of that issue but ive talked to others who told them and they say same thing. Send us the bullets we will test them. Nothing ever gets done or they dont admit there is an issue doesn't look good on them. Ive hurt 285 eldm blowing 147 180 and a few of the eldx

yea,the 285’s were awesome but then even they started having issues


I’ve shot 1500-2000 Berger’s now since going back and none has given me an issue in the same barrels that the 180eldm was blowing up 25-40% in.

 

[Schw15]

yea,the 285’s were awesome but then even they started having issues


I’ve shot 1500-2000 Berger’s now since going back and none has given me an issue in the same barrels that the 180eldm was blowing up 25-40% in.

We switched bullets in same barrels and never had any blows ups or issues. Smk been great