Rifle Scopes How about a scope comparison in the Houston area?

#51
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston area?

I would be interested as well. I have a NF 12-42 BR scope, and an old Leup MkIV 8.5-25. Might be able to grab a NF 5.5-22 from a friend, better yet he would probably be interested anyway.

What about meeting at ASC? We could set up several type targets at the different yardages 200-600 and take a look. No need to pay there either, if the folks are not shooting. Just a thought...

Mark
 
#52
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston area?

Hi Mark, the plans are coming together to meet at Alvin Community College one evening in about 3 weeks or so.

Hopefully I'll have a date finalized by the end of this week.
 
#53
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston area?

Ok, mark your calendar for Saturday, 18 July.

I'll post the final location shortly, but it will be in Alvin, Texas. We will most likely start about five or six in the evening and go until dark to allow everything to be compared in changing conditions at the same time.

We're working on getting a check sheet together for each scope to be rated in several different areas by each person there. The survey will not be a scientific class survey, just each person's interpretation of each scope under the same conditions.

If anyone who plans on coming has a scope that they would like to include in the survey let me know and we'll make sure we have a holder for your scope to go into. Like I said before there will be no firearms present at this get together. If you bring your rifle you'll need to pull the scope off of it in your vehicle.

I'd like to have someone bring some of the lower priced glass that is always talked about as being a good "introductory" scope, things like the Super Sniper, Bushnell 3200, that type of glass. It'll be nice to see how these lower priced scopes really stack up against the expensive glass in the same conditions.

So far these scopes will definitely be there:

S&B 5-25X56, P4F
S&B 4-16X50, Gen II XL
Premier Reticle, 3-15X50, Gen II
Hensoldt 4-16X56, Mildot
USO, I forget the model, Horus reticle
Nightforce NXS 3.5-15X50 F1, I forget which reticle
Leupold 6.5X20X50, Gen II
Unertl
 
#54
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston area?

Thanks for the update Tony. I am really looking forward on looking through the Premier and Hendsoldt and meeting other Houston members.
 
#55
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston area?

man, I am ready to check stuff out and meet some of the people from the Houston area also. I am set up to get one of the Premiers in 5x25 but would like to see what kind of scope I am buying compared to the others.
 
#56
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston area?

Tony, et al

"I'd like to have someone bring some of the lower priced glass that is always talked about as being a good "introductory" scope, things like the Super Sniper, Bushnell 3200, that type of glass. It'll be nice to see how these lower priced scopes really stack up against the expensive glass in the same conditions."

---To see the addition of a Falcon Menace, a Millett TRS-1, and the like be thrown into that mix and compared would be great. Any chances of that? If I had one, I'd send it down. This 'side-by-each' comparison by 'many' is really turning heads.
 
#57
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston area?

Tony,

I can bring a Super Sniper 16X if I can make it down on that date. I won't know until after the 4th if I can make it.

It would be good to visit.

Jim
 
#59
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston area?

On another site, the resolution of the PR Heritage was called into question. I have one on order, but I thought it might be a good idea to test resolution using a USAF 1951 test chart or the updated T-21 version. This is a true, objective way to compare head-to-head. If anyone knows any other testing methods, that would be useful info as well.

I wish I could make it, but I don't think I will have the time.
 
#60
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston area?

As an FYI, in most cases resolution charts are simply eye charts for the user, except with a scope between the test target and the observer.

You can download them and print them off online but really there is no way to actually test it this way, although you can get an consensus on what the group "sees". Also, you have to confirm the power setting of each scope which , you can't go by the numbers on the power ring because the chances of them being correct are slim to none. So if the group sets all the scopes on 10X according to each scopes' magnification ring, odds are one might be 9X, one 10X, one 11X, etc... so in that case the 11X will always look better.

You can do it, but I would record what each person "Sees' and then compile the information that way. As well do your best to standardize the power setting when doing so.

But to look at things make sure you bring something colored, with reds, blues, and especially yellow, cause yellow is where they fall off. But you can do a near and far test and record a score each person gives each scope across the field, I would make it as blind as possible so the "favorites" don't get wished a little higher.

Glass in a scope to anyone but those with laboratory quality testing equipment will always be subjective at best.
 
#61
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston area?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I would make it as blind as possible so the "favorites" don't get wished a little higher.

Glass in a scope to anyone but those with laboratory quality testing equipment will always be subjective at best. </div></div>

+1 Human psy. being what it is the more expensive scopes will almost always be a hidden favorite for the human mind.
 
#62
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston ar

We are already discussing how to set up the scopes to make the testing as blind as possible. We'll also have the different colors too.

The original purpose of this was to let people get a look at the high end scopes under the same conditions to help them make a decision whether or not to spend that much money on a scope.

I also realize that if a lower priced scopes image is closer to a higher priced scopes glass to that particular viewers eye it doesn't take into account the internal mechanical materials or construction methods that separate the two scopes.


Here's a couple of teaser pics of some of the scopes that will be at the get together.

DSCF1598.jpg


DSCF1596.jpg


From left to right we have:
4-16X56 Hensoldt
3-15X50 Premier Heritage
4-16X50 S&B
5-25X56 S&B
3-17 USO
3-17 USO
6.5-20X50 Leupold

 
#64
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston ar

I'd almost drive all the way down to Texas to compare those scopes.

Can't wait for the results.There's no way you guy's can get a Zeiss or Hensoldt 6-24x72 is there?

Steve
 
#65
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston ar

You're more than welcome to come Steve, I can understand if you can't make it though.
smile.gif


I won't have a 6-24X72 here, I did look through the one Nathan was using at the Cup several times during the match and it is a VERY nice scope to be sure. If you buy one, you won't be disappointed.
 
#67
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston area?

You guys should have some text that gets smaller and smaller. Also text that slowly has less and less contrast and see which scope allows you to read the smallest line. All scopes set at the same magnification of course.
 
#69
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston ar

41, looks like I gave you too much credit! Allen, why don't you eloborate a little where this is coming from and we can get on w/ it! Perhaps someone should've consulted me before they came out w/ their $2799 blunder! I have always looked up to ones that have served; especially in actual combat or in the field! And the last time I checked a #2 pencil wasn't a weapon of choice!
 
#70
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston area?

The original intent of this get together was only as a chance for people to "test drive" the scopes at the same time since there is no one that I know of in the South Texas area who carry all of these scope lines in their inventory and it's hard to drop that much cash on anything without handling it first.

I am fortunate enough to own a couple of expensive scopes, and even more fortunate enough to be friends with some of the guys in the industry who actually deal in the high end glass and would let me borrow some of their scopes. I thought I would try to provide a venue for anyone local enough who wanted to make the drive to be able to look at all of the high end scopes on the market under the same conditions.

Almost from the first day I started talking publicly about doing this I've been receiving ideas on how to make the "test" more inclusive and thorough. From having the scopes covered up during the test, to having barber poles set up, to having stakes in the ground to test accuracy of mil spacing and power numbers, to having letters, shapes, and colors set out to test contrast and resolution. Guys are wanting to have some of the low end scopes at the "test" to see how they stack up too.

So...ok people want to have a test of some kind, I guess we'll do that. We'll attempt to come up with some kind of setup that holds the scopes down and have them covered up so you can't readily identify what they are. We'll even have some colors, shapes and maybe even some text too. We may even have a yard stick at 100 yards to test the mil spacing and we may even have some sticks stuck in the ground to test field of view at different power settings too.

What is all this going to prove? Not a whole hell of a lot in my mind. Why? I'll use myself as an example, my right eye sees pretty clear, but I have an astigmatism in my left eye, so it sees a little out of focus as compared to my right eye. I have my scopes ocular adjusted for a sharp reticle for my right eye, if I have to swap over and shoot anything from my support side then the reticle becomes a little blurry when looking through my left eye. I remind myself that I have to make an additional adjustment to the setup when switching sides like that by having my scope cap straight up and down for my right eye and turning it, and the ocular focus, to the right when going to support side. It's all about learning your equipment.

The point is is that this "test" will be so subjective and dependent on the individuals there at the time that no one else will believe the results. Some people here just have to argue their point about every little thing and they will come up with something about this test that they don't like or don't think we did like they would have done it. AND, like has been said before the site picture isn't the most important aspect of a scope system anyway. The questions will come up like, Well did you really look through X scope at the same time as Y scope or did you do it 5 minutes later and the light changed? Did you really check that the powers of each scope was EXACTLY on ten power, maybe one was at 9.5 and one was at 11. Well of course that scope will be clearer it's got a bigger objective lens, and on and on...

Also, when the testing is complete, we will uncover and unclamp all of the scope and anyone can handle them as much as they like as well, since that was the purpose of the meet in the first place.

After this gathering is over I'll post the results of the tests here. I'm not going to get all wrapped around the axle about what the results are either because I don't care what the results are. I know what I want in a scope and am very happy with what I have right now. If the tests show that my scopes come in lower on the rating scale I'm not about to start pulling my hair out and worrying about what am I going to do now.

We will only be out doing the get together one afternoon so there won't be a lot of time to do extensive testing.

I hope this kind of keeps things in perspective.
 
#73
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston area?

I have a SS x16 and a VERI-X 3 3.5x10/40 LR/T I would be willing to bring for giggles. I would also like to meet the fellow houston hide members.
 
#75
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston area?

Tony,
+1 on your intent here. Keeping it simple and practical is really what tells each individual how the scopes work under field conditions for them.

Thanks for your efforts.
 
#76
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston ar

Wow, I go away for a weekend with Christian youth fellowship from my church to give a battle tour of Yorktown (the assault by Alexander Hamilton and his 400 men on Redoubt #10 is especially intriguing) and provide an introduction to rifle craft, and return to find that my service counted for naught… Woe is me. ‘Bout time I get busy living.

Foolish to use my name as if you know me.

For your effort though, I wrote you with this little song dedication.

I titled it TURK BLART.

Is this the real life-
Is this just internet-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
Open your eyes
Look up to the skies and see-
TURK BLART’s not a poor boy, but needs your sympathy-
Because with optics he knows,
A little high, little low,
Anyway the wind blows,doesnt really matter to thee,
To thee

Mama, he never killed a deer,
Not a rabbit, not a squirrel,
But on the internet
He’s a whirl,
And Mama, he knows everything,
And he googled some and thinks he knows me too

TURK BLART ooo,
Didnt mean to make you cry-
If Im not back again this time tomorrow-
Carry on, carry on, as if nothing really matters-

Too late,my time has come,
A self-ban for awhile
Sends shivers down my spine-
All from TURK BLART’s little whine…
Goodbye everybody-Ive got to go-
Gotta leave you all behind and face the truth-
TURK BLART ooo- (any way the wind blows)
I dont want to leave,
I sometimes wish Id never found the Hide at all-

I see a little silhouetto of a man,
TURK BLART – TURK BLART will you do the fandango-
Thunderbolt and lightning-very very frightening me-
Galileo,galileo,
Galileo galileo
Galileo figaro-magnifico-
You’re not a poor boy and nobody loves thee-
Except that man that lives there with ye-
Talk about telescopes into the night…
Easy come easy go-,will you let me go-
Bismillah! no-,we will not let you go-let him go-
Bismillah! we will not let you go-let him go
Bismillah! we will not let you go-let me go
Will not let you go-let me go
Will not let you go let me go
No,no,no,no,no,no,no-
TURK BLARTIA, TURK BLARTIA, let me go-
Beelzebub has a devil put aside for thee,for thee, for ye-

So you think you can stone me and spit in my eye-
So you think you can taunt and leave me to die-
Oh TURK BLART-cant do this to me TURK BLART-
Just gotta get out-just gotta get right outta here-

Nothing really matters,
Anyone can see,
Nothing really matters-,nothing really matters to thee,

Any way the wind blows....

finis
 
#77
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston ar

All that education, all that culture and you resort to this? It amazes me to see that you have the time or interest to lower yourself to this level! If it pleases you go on w/ your rant to make yourself feel better about your status as self proclaimed king of the internet! At your leisure feel free to disclose my claims of any particular optic being better than any other! Ironic you come back from a religious function and this is the result! I don't recall crossing you?
 
#79
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston ar

Fourty One seem's to have way to much time on his hands. He responded very rudely when I offered some input on the SO Tech Mission Go Bag in a post last week. His post was choppy and fragmented, but he essentially called me "Johnny commando". I was a little confused with his response, as I am former military and LE, and I filed him away as a troll or someone that's off his meds. I enjoy this site as a place to share ideas and info, and expect people to call bullshit at times, but his baseless comments seem to have absolutely no purpose other that for him to hear himself talk.
 
#81
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston ar

About 1 1/2 hrs! To all the members; I am looking forward to this "scope shootout" as much as anyone else! I apologize to Tony as he has put a lot of effort in coordinating it. Lets just get on w/ it! This thread along w/ all of you deserve better!
 
#82
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston ar

Just a reminder that the scope comparison / get together will be next weekend, July 18th.

I've just been out scouting around and I've located a good place for everything to take place. We'll be able to look at buildings, signs, and people out to about 750 yards away.

I'll have some of my TAB GEAR items for anyone to look at and buy if you want to. Danel, AKA Platypus here on the Hide, will also be there and I think he'll have some of his tripod kits for you to play with too.

Danel is working on getting some brackets made that will allow the scoped to be held securely while people are looking through them and filling out the review questions. We'll also have the scopes covered while this takes place. After all the questions are filled out we will take the scopes out of the brackets and allow anyone to play with the scopes as much as they want to.

The plan right now is for guys to start showing up say at about 6:00 PM and we'll stay until dark, or whenever everyone has had enough and leaves.

The meeting will take place at the Alvin Community College in the back right next to the baseball field. It'll be easy enough for anyone to google the college and then find the ball field.

Here are the lat. and lon. in case someone wants to input them into their gps.

29 23 45 N
95 14 32 W

Also several guys have asked if they can bring their scope along and compare it with others. Of course that will be just fine, as long as it's not attached to a rifle.

I've also been asked how many people will be there. The answer is, I have no idea, I know there'll be one for sure, me.
smile.gif


Any questions, hit me with them and I'll answer as best I can.

See you guys there.
 
#86
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston ar

Hey dmg308 that's really nice of you to volunteer to bring the BBQ, and coming all the way from Virginia too.
smile.gif


Nlrs308 you can bring still cameras, video cameras, or anything you want, I don't care.

Nathan Hunt of HuDisCo sent a Hensoldt 4-15X56, and USO sent two 3-17's
 
#88
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston ar

Tony said,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just a reminder that the scope comparison / get together will be next weekend, July 18th.</div></div>
 
#91
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston ar

Lindy,

I don't have time to read the entire thread, it's 10 pages with a lot of fluff. I understand a bunch of Hiders are getting together to do a side by side comparison of top quality scopes. Great. I'm just trying to find out who is the "go to" guy for this and I'll handle the rest by PM.

Scott
 
#92
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston ar

Hey Scott, I guess you could say I'm in charge, although there are several other guys who are helping me too.

It's only 3 pages too, not 10.
smile.gif


Feel free to PM me with anything you have in mind.
 
#93
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston ar

And it was only two pages when he asked the original question. Oh, well. I guess I just get impatient with people who will ask a question that has already been answered.

I think I'll get a drink and walk over to the pool. Hot enough for you, Tony?
 
#94
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston ar

Guys,

To clarify, and way off topic, when I open the Optics forum, this thread shows 10 pages. So either my settings or my browser are different than yours. I asked a simple question, even if it was already answered. Impatience is one thing, rudeness is another.

Scott
 
#96
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston ar

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tom O’Leary</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lindy,

I don't have time to read the entire thread, it's 10 pages with a lot of fluff. </div></div>

Scott, Thanks for the thoughts on everyones comments. I can tell you really want to contribute. </div></div>

Yes, I do. I hope I can.

Scott
 
#98
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston ar

You do realize that Scott is giving away almost 10 grand worth of free kit here on the hide at the end of the month don't you? I would think that would go a long way in establishing some credibility in terms of his willingness to contribute here. I would think he at least deserves the benefit of the doubt. I mean the guy is in a position to round out the optics field at a test everyone is looking forward to and he gets thrown under the bus for an error in internet decorum, unbelievable.
 
#100
Re: How about a scope comparison in the Houston ar

Are you guys f'n kidding me?

An optics dealer wants to know who is the organizer of a scope comparison, and you are going to piss him off?

An optics DEALER...want contact info...

What do you think he is wanting to do?

An OPTICS DEALER...wait, a PREMIER RETICLES optics dealer wants to contact the organizer of a scope comparison to "contribute" and you guys want to piss him off.

Holy crap.
__________________________________________________________

I for one would like to make sure that Premier was represented. This is going to be the first time (that I know of) that this many scopes will be in one place going head to head. I am very interested in the results. I personally think it would be a good idea to let Scott have a shot at helping.

Holy Crap.
 
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