I recently went to a shooting class and got out to 1000yds. I’d like to continue shooting at 1000yds at the range where I live. At the shooting class we had a spotter call the hits, but if I shoot by myself how can I see where my shots are hitting/missing? Especially if the steel is already all shot up.
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How can I tell if I hit a steel target 800-1000yds away?
- Thread starter richthe1
- Start date
What caliber are you shooting?
Do the targets ring?
How much movement are you making when you shoot, can you watch your shot go to the target?
Even a .308 will make a decent steel target at 1000 ring, you have to wait a few seconds for it, but you can hear the ring usually even with hearing protection.
Otherwise you might want to consider spray painting the target first before you start using it, or possibly sticking a whole bunch of little clay pigeons to it, or stick a sheet of shoot & see target paper on it so you can see through your scope / spotting scope more clearly if you are using a smaller caliber.
Do the targets ring?
How much movement are you making when you shoot, can you watch your shot go to the target?
Even a .308 will make a decent steel target at 1000 ring, you have to wait a few seconds for it, but you can hear the ring usually even with hearing protection.
Otherwise you might want to consider spray painting the target first before you start using it, or possibly sticking a whole bunch of little clay pigeons to it, or stick a sheet of shoot & see target paper on it so you can see through your scope / spotting scope more clearly if you are using a smaller caliber.
W54 is right. I put my phone down hit record and on the playback as long as the wind is low and nobody else is shooting I can HEAR the ring on playback. You asked about seeing hits I would recommend a quality spotting scope with a phone skope adapter that allows me to see splash if the mirage or shimmer is low.
-Caliber: 308
-Not sure if the targets ring - I’ve only shot when lots of other people were shooting next to me (class and PRS match) so maybe it was too loud to hear. However, I think the 800 yd target has the Magnetospeed Target Hit Indicator. I believe the target is 2MOA, but I’d like to try and shoot 1MOA, so it’ll be hard to tell with that target.
-What do you mean by how much movement? Also, the shooting instructor I had recommended go not try to spot my own shots. He says he believe it makes the shooter unnaturally force themselves forward after the shot and also moves you from focusing on the reticle to focusing on the target.
If your on the gun correctly, you'll see the hit.
Okay cool! So you have your phone recording on the spotting scope, take the shot, and then playback the shot on your phone to see hits/splash? That sounds like a good idea to me!
Spotting your impacts isn't difficult, just continue to watch target through recoil. Ideally your crosshairs should be returning to the target, so you don't have to do anything special.
What magnification are you running?
I’ll have to work on spotting my impacts. At the shooting school I went to they really discouraged it so I never tried. Any tips?
I have a Burris XTR II 4-20, I normally have it at 12x.
Their schooling seems a bit odd, as given the flight time of a .308 to around 1000 yards or so, if you are running the rifle well, you should have time to get a clear view of the target as the bullet hits. Most training places tend to teach that you kind of stay on target so you can see the impact and correct and wind etc. for follow up shots without having to always have somebody else tell you where you hit.
If your not seeing the splash they did not teach you recoil management at all.
First school I’ve ever been to, so I don’t really know honestly. I was a little disappointed in the 1-on-1 time at the school. At one point I hit 10 shots at the 1000yd target, and I asked if I was doing everything right (form, etc.) and the instructor said if I was hitting 10/10 on a 20”x20” Target at 1000yds I was doing everything right. I’m not trying to bash the school or anything and everyone was really nice.
I just moved to the DFW area. Any class recommendations out here that would be more 1-on1? I went to an Appleseed last year which was great - I really feel like they looked at my form, trigger control almost every time, etc.
Thanks guys! I’ll look up some recoil management videos.
I have time to eat a sandwich between breaking the shot and spotting hits with my 6.5 at 1000. I can't imagine an instructor telling you not to try. If you are set up correctly you won't have to "try" to spot the hit you just keep looking after you shoot. Though if mirage is bad it can be tough to see.
I would start with getting behind the rifle well... If your set up square recoil management is much more natural.
I can spot hits through scope EASY at 600 with my .308 at 15 power. Pretty fun to see impacts b4 your buddy's hear the ping.
Not sure where your shooting, but spray painted targets make life much easier too
Definitely a new one to me. I always thought the point was to see your own hits. Along those lines, if you have steel that doesn't move much, you can often see the splash off the steel, if you have dirt or sand on the ground, rather than grass.
Really, you should be able to call the hit visually, before the sound of the hit comes back to you.
Really, you should be able to call the hit visually, before the sound of the hit comes back to you.
FWIW, I like Killz primer because it makes the target super white. A bright white target provides more contrast to the hit marks, making them easier to see through mirage.
200 yards is tough, 400 and out is easy if your behind your gun correctly. Don't paint your steel, watch how it reacts to the hit to see where it's hitting.
Distance does not matter, if your on the stick correctly. When you get it correct you will see the hit just appear on steel or the hole in the paper appear. If your not seeing that your recoil management needs correcting.
Can you really spot a hole appearing on paper at 100 yards? Or at any distance for that matter???
I can see paper holes at 100 easily with a Razor 4.5-27.
Hits on steel at 1000 are seen easily also. At 1250 my 6.5CM is transonic and hits get hard to spot.
Hits on steel at 1000 are seen easily also. At 1250 my 6.5CM is transonic and hits get hard to spot.
But are you seeing the hole popping up on the paper as the bullet goes through? That’s what I was asking because that seems very very unlikely.
Yes I can at 100, depending stick/scope an lighting I've seen it at 200 as well.
Shit you are better than me bro. Your gun must not be moving at all to be able to see bullet holes appearing at 100. What are you shooting? My creedmoor gets to 100 in 0.11 seconds. I can’t imagine how you can see a hole appear in a tenth of a second unless you are shooting rimfire.
.308 22" Pac-Nor 5.5 rem taper w/a can an a 10X leupold at 100, an 300wm 26" # 7 mike rock, w/a home made break an 22X SN-3 at 200.
About 9 months ago a Russian friend set a 1/2 pint bottle of his brown medicine side ways at 807 yds at j-Huskeys short range. The bet was if I could break it setting sideways he would quit drinking cold turkey right then. Yes, I got lucky an broke it with the 7th shot , but the interesting thing was long before I broke it he was already saying damn you did it, when to me the bullet had 2-300 yds still to go as I had not seen it break yet. In asking/talking to folks deep in the medical game most agreed all people are wired different time wise, when it comes to seeing something an the brain processing same. My eye sight is still beyond perfect even at my age (71 in just a few months) but the russians processing time is much faster than mine, which according to many med folks is normal. At HardRock I see all my hits just appear on the steel (unless the mirage is real bad) yet some guys who can out shoot me any day of the week can not. Why ? got me but, the everyone is wired different statement, the med folk say hold water with me.
It has nothing to do with processing time it has to do with the scope moving from recoil for much longer than 1/10 if a second (no matter how well you manage recoil)and the bullet reaching the target in 1/10 of a second. I can’t imagine it is humanly possible to see a bullet make the hole on paper at 100 yards in a tenth of a second, with a 10 power while it is recoiling...And the way you are describing “hits appearing on steel” does not sound familiar at all to me. I see an impact. That is, a small explosion on the steel and then yes I see the mark left behind. But I have never seen a mark just appear. There is an impact and then a mark left behind. Are you sure you are seeing what you think you are seeing?
The fastest time that at any studies have documented for human eye-to-brain-to-recogntion is 13 milliseconds. A more realistic number would be around 15 milliseconds, and that is only in the best case scenarios. So as far as people seeing holes form on a target at 100 yards, wouldn't say there is zero chance that it could happen, but it would have to be very rare.
Best bet to ID hits on steel at longer ranges is some type of a flasher system.
https://magnetospeed.com/collections/target-hit-indicator/products/t1000-target-hit-indicator
I have ROed more matches than I have shot, and spent hundreds of hours on glass, and seeing impacts on steel past 500-600 yards can become very dependent on conditions. With a good target flasher system, it is VERY easy to do.
You could use a target cam, but you would have to come of the scope to catch it, or have to replay it back. For use at those longer ranges, those cam systems are also usually pretty expensive.
Best bet to ID hits on steel at longer ranges is some type of a flasher system.
https://magnetospeed.com/collections/target-hit-indicator/products/t1000-target-hit-indicator
I have ROed more matches than I have shot, and spent hundreds of hours on glass, and seeing impacts on steel past 500-600 yards can become very dependent on conditions. With a good target flasher system, it is VERY easy to do.
You could use a target cam, but you would have to come of the scope to catch it, or have to replay it back. For use at those longer ranges, those cam systems are also usually pretty expensive.
If the bullet still has enough energy when it hits you'll still hear the thump after the report and I can usually see some "dust" kick off the target (or maybe it's the bullet coming apart?). Depending on the light and temp., you can also spot your own trace at longer distances. Not always, but sometimes. When the bullet goes transonic and after is harder --not much evidence one way or another without a spotter or another way. Taking the scope slightly out of focus can make the trace more evident, which is fine for spotting but I don't particularly like the scope setup like that.
I spotted my hit at a mile this weekend with my 6.5x284, saw dust come off of the target.
Yes I am, been seeing it for many, many years. There are days when it's not that easy but, when I'm on it's easy.
I don't understand why so many have trouble seeing impacts on steel at distance. What's so difficult about it? Especially as an RO. I run matches and RO matches and shoot all of the time. Seeing impacts on steel at 1000 is a given, with the sometimes exceptions of light projectiles like .223 and some 6mm rounds on heavy steel. The splash made by some of these is very minimal.
And yes, I see my impacts at 100 yards and 200 yards also, even when on barricades or in other compromised positions. It's not that difficult. I don't even claim to have the best form or fundamentals, it's just not that hard.
D
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Well, this thread really shows who has more than a hundred rounds under their belt, lol.
On steel is the key there. I can seehits on steel all day assuming mirage isn’t too bad at distance. I was contesting that no one can see a bullet hole appearing at 100 yards on paper. Especially with a 10 power. Sure you can see the hole once it’s there but I just don’t believe it’s possible to see a bullet hole happen within 1/10 of a second DURRING recoil.
@Lowlight , is this even possible?
Not that I completely disagree, but not everything is always sunshine & roses! I am throwing this out as an FYI for people who think calling impacts is always a walk in the park! There can be a big difference between what goes on in practice, training, or a match.
IMPACT ID
SOUND:
When you are shooting with multiple shooters firing at the same time, this is NOT always a reliable indicator. It also has a lot to do with the type of target and how they are mounted. Some steel setups make a very wonderful loud sound, some of them make very little if any noise at all. Hearing protection can also impact the ability to pick it up.
SIGHT:
Splash – there can be 2 types of Splash:
Bullet Splash – the splash of the bullet as it breaks apart hitting the target. The bullet splash on the target can have a lot to do with the bullet size/weight and the light conditions. Obviously very small bullets make very little splash, and lighting conditions that are extremely dark or light can make seeing the splash difficult.
Ground Splash – the splash of the bullet fragments as they impact the surrounding ground. The splash on the surrounding ground has a lot to do with where and how the target is mounted. Worst case scenarios, they are in very heavy foliage/brush, or they are set just behind a terrain feature. In both cases the ground splash can be impossible to ID.
Target Marking – the mark a bullet leaves on the target as it removes paint. This is an option when there is fresh paint on the target, however in high volume matches I have seen the paint gone in the first relay, and the targets will NOT be repainted.
Movement – pretty straight forward, however there are times when hard target mounts are used that do not move! I have been seeing more of these in high volume matches because the chances of target failure are much lower.
You must also consider the other contributing factors:
Lighting – too dark or too light and it can cause problems.
Mirage – can limit the amount of magnification that you can use.
Strong Wind – can impact the ability to see splash or movement reliably.
Trace – is it an option that you can use.
In many training and match situations the targets are being set to challenge the shooters and not to make life easy on the person trying to call impacts. I have been in training and matches where targets where hard mounted on a T-Post 3-4 feet in the air in very heavy brush just behind the rise of a terrain feature. Target Splash was your only consistent indicator, but with poor lighting it could still be difficult. Sound was nearly none existent, and with hearing protection, and multiple shooters, it was pretty much useless. Ground Splash was impossible to see due to it being behind the terrain feature and hidden by the foliage. There was no movement that was reliably detectable. Paint was non-existent after the first couple of shooters. In those situations, there is usually a lot of “debate” going on about impacts!
If a target is designed and setup “properly” then it should be very easy to see an impact or miss. With proper setup and good conditions, I have called my own hits & misses on targets out to 1,300 yards using my rifle optic.
As the saying goes, “The Devil is in the details!”
IMPACT ID
SOUND:
When you are shooting with multiple shooters firing at the same time, this is NOT always a reliable indicator. It also has a lot to do with the type of target and how they are mounted. Some steel setups make a very wonderful loud sound, some of them make very little if any noise at all. Hearing protection can also impact the ability to pick it up.
SIGHT:
Splash – there can be 2 types of Splash:
Bullet Splash – the splash of the bullet as it breaks apart hitting the target. The bullet splash on the target can have a lot to do with the bullet size/weight and the light conditions. Obviously very small bullets make very little splash, and lighting conditions that are extremely dark or light can make seeing the splash difficult.
Ground Splash – the splash of the bullet fragments as they impact the surrounding ground. The splash on the surrounding ground has a lot to do with where and how the target is mounted. Worst case scenarios, they are in very heavy foliage/brush, or they are set just behind a terrain feature. In both cases the ground splash can be impossible to ID.
Target Marking – the mark a bullet leaves on the target as it removes paint. This is an option when there is fresh paint on the target, however in high volume matches I have seen the paint gone in the first relay, and the targets will NOT be repainted.
Movement – pretty straight forward, however there are times when hard target mounts are used that do not move! I have been seeing more of these in high volume matches because the chances of target failure are much lower.
You must also consider the other contributing factors:
Lighting – too dark or too light and it can cause problems.
Mirage – can limit the amount of magnification that you can use.
Strong Wind – can impact the ability to see splash or movement reliably.
Trace – is it an option that you can use.
In many training and match situations the targets are being set to challenge the shooters and not to make life easy on the person trying to call impacts. I have been in training and matches where targets where hard mounted on a T-Post 3-4 feet in the air in very heavy brush just behind the rise of a terrain feature. Target Splash was your only consistent indicator, but with poor lighting it could still be difficult. Sound was nearly none existent, and with hearing protection, and multiple shooters, it was pretty much useless. Ground Splash was impossible to see due to it being behind the terrain feature and hidden by the foliage. There was no movement that was reliably detectable. Paint was non-existent after the first couple of shooters. In those situations, there is usually a lot of “debate” going on about impacts!
If a target is designed and setup “properly” then it should be very easy to see an impact or miss. With proper setup and good conditions, I have called my own hits & misses on targets out to 1,300 yards using my rifle optic.
As the saying goes, “The Devil is in the details!”
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Just buy that cute little light, like Frank had on his target. Flashes when you hit steel. Problem solved.
Asking this question for the second time.
What do they think you are going to do when the day comes your on your own, an a spotter of any kind ain't happening at all? Spotting a miss with a berm behind/around the target is easy, but when the target is hanging in the woods or out in the open, you will at some point need that skill.
Forget the lights, target cams etc.
Most importantly...Forget your class...
Learn what recoil manament means.
Do what a lot of us did when we were 10 and younger with a 22, or today for a field zero. Send some into dirt at further distances and learn to work your way closer. Once you feel good, practice on steel and look for the first twist, the frag splash etc. learn to identify the difference between those dirt shots ie misses and a frag signature. What what the wind does with those and how they look different.
Once you learn from these, wind corrections will be greatly enhanced.
Most importantly...Forget your class...
Learn what recoil manament means.
Do what a lot of us did when we were 10 and younger with a 22, or today for a field zero. Send some into dirt at further distances and learn to work your way closer. Once you feel good, practice on steel and look for the first twist, the frag splash etc. learn to identify the difference between those dirt shots ie misses and a frag signature. What what the wind does with those and how they look different.
Once you learn from these, wind corrections will be greatly enhanced.
^^this...get around enough and its not always just as simple as recoil management...lots of factors in play
we have changed target locations/hang method/height/etc after matches because they were difficult to spot, both misses and impacts, for the shooter and spotter
...and weeds and scrub and other foliage that did not telegraph where the impact was. Or even wet sand. After a good rain, the sand down here will often just absorb the impact of a bullet and show no/little sign. Or it lands in the soft hole where other windage challenged shooters landed a bunch of times before you.Man, I've killed me a LOT of dirt...
I suppose I should say that when I was talking about seeing my impacts, I should have clarified (if it wasn't evident) that I meant those on steel. In situations when there's no comfortable berm directly behind the target or a berm/hill over-grown with foliage, misses can be difficult to spot, at best.
It was mostly geared to the LE community where they always have a spotter. Okay, thanks for clearing that up - I was shooting the 1000yd target at a club PRS match. The target was in an area where trees were cleared out, so it had trees on all sides around it and was in shadow due to the trees. Neither the match director (who was spotting) or me could see anything. Appreciate your feedback!
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I bring a guy/gal I wouldn't miss and put them next to the gong with a walkie talkie.
I've spotted holes in paper at 100 on impact many times - especially when the paper doesn't already have alot of holes.
For spotting steel @1000, first figure out what minimum magnification you can work with at that distance. I have no problem seeing a 10" circle @1000 at 6 or 8x. The lower mag gives you a larger field of view, so if you aren't managing recoil well, you'll have a better chance of getting back on quickly. Use the feedback to adjust your position, maybe with some coaching by an experienced shooter, then work up in magnification. 8 to 12X is plenty for 1000.
For spotting steel @1000, first figure out what minimum magnification you can work with at that distance. I have no problem seeing a 10" circle @1000 at 6 or 8x. The lower mag gives you a larger field of view, so if you aren't managing recoil well, you'll have a better chance of getting back on quickly. Use the feedback to adjust your position, maybe with some coaching by an experienced shooter, then work up in magnification. 8 to 12X is plenty for 1000.
^^^^^^Me too. It was one of the reasons I didn't like the TREMORII reticle. All those dots moving around made it very tough to spot misses in less than ideal conditions. And it made it impossible for me to spot new holes appearing at 100. That is when I realized I was seeing them appear. When I couldn't anymore because there 100 little black dots on my reticle moving around under recoil. I would have to check the bullet holes on the paper, then go back and find the new one after the shot.
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