Maggie’s how fast can you change a mag?

[AXEMAN]

this fast??

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[maxposner]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

I think I broke my finger trying to do that, I'm going to double stacks, so I can slow down on the change

 

[macthknife]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

That's cool. It would be interesting to see if a stock 1911 slows him down much.

 

[bohem]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

Pretty cool. Race guns are capable of amazing things.

This is supposed to be a stock AK, reloads like that impress me more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7hi20TI_jA&feature=PlayList&p=170A69D556504B2E&index=15

 

[i_Adam_i18]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

I could never charge my AK like that. The recoil spring is way to stiff to just slide back with my left hand. I've gotta really put some effort into it just using my right hand.

 

[p8re8]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

i took a class from travis and his buddy, max michelle jr. both great guys and great handgunners. it was well worth the $$. if you think it looks fast on video, in person, he's fast but so smooth.

 

[fcordrey]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

I'd like to see it in person b/c he is crazy fast ! Probally done it more than once or twice .

 

[Guest]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

Give him a factory duty weapon / mags and lets see what he can do with a practical weapon. Not shitting on him, Id just like to see it.

 

[rgkeller]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

Add a tenth of a second or two.

 

[Tactical one]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

 

[jones21290]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

Same here on the AK reload, the spring is a tad stiff for left hand operation. Red star makes a decent mag release but even with that, I probably couldn't pull it off.

 

[smokshwn]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shaggyback</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Give him a factory duty weapon / mags and lets see what he can do with a practical weapon. Not shitting on him, Id just like to see it. </div></div>

Shaggy,

You may not have intended your comment this way, but it mirrors so many others that try to intimate that somehow there is trickery and shortcutting of the fundamentals involved. The fact is that regardless of the gear, Travis is able to execute the fundamentals faster than the next guy. You can put a race gun setup on him he will be faster than you, you can hide his gun in his sock and his mags in his underwear and again he will be faster. Flaps on the mag holders, faster. Extra retention steps on the holster faster.

Here's link of him shooting a production setup, about 1:30 it gets pretty sporty.

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[mgd45]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

He's great & fast as hell, but remember that he's also using a technique that looks makes it look even faster. He grabs his spare magazine first, then releases the old magazine as the new one slids right into the magwell.

It appears to be a super fast "reactive reload", but in reality Travis is starting the reload before it happens.....if that makes sense.....

Not trying to knock on Travis or belittle his skill.....because he has "mad skills" & is 10 times better than most people!

 

[Guest]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smokshwn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You may not have intended your comment this way, but it mirrors so many others that try to intimate that somehow there is trickery and shortcutting </div></div>

Hence why I said "I just wanna see it." Im not shitting on the guy, I just <span style="text-decoration: underline"> wanted to see it</span> done with a factory gun. No insinuation stated or implied. It damn sure didnt "mirror" that I thought the guy is a fake.

 

[Tactical one]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

I saw a guy try and shove his cell phone in the mag well during a training session.

 

[smokshwn]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shaggyback</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smokshwn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You may not have intended your comment this way, but it mirrors so many others that try to intimate that somehow there is trickery and shortcutting </div></div>

Hence why I said "I just wanna see it." Im not shitting on the guy, I just <span style="text-decoration: underline"> wanted to see it</span> done with a factory gun. No insinuation stated or implied. It damn sure didnt "mirror" that I thought the guy is a fake. </div></div>

Thats what I thought. Ergo why I prefaced my post.

So was it OK with a factory gun?

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

dang that was some hot shooting. practice practice practice. id say whatever he is doing, he is doing it right and what ever his technique, its working.

 

[macthknife]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

That last vid was an excellent lesson. We need more of this stuff.

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

at the end of the video, click on the image, just not where the related vids are. that should open that video in a new window. save that in your favorites, thats important. then look at the related videos. there are plenty more instructional videos there. gotta save each one you like or youll go down the rabbit hole and not be able to find stuff as the related stuff changes as you select new vids. right click and opening in new windows helps too. have fun. oh, when you get to vids of girls in thongs shaking their ass, its time to start over

 

[Guest]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

So, I am in the process of breaking in a new duty holster at the moment, before mine completely shits the bed. After leaving it holstered with a metric shit-ton of silicone and a thick sock wrapped around the gat, she loosened up enough to start drawing from to get all the kinks smoothed out. So, last night, I watched this guys work. And, watched the "I use two points of contact on the magazine..." part. Seems easy enough. Im no slouch with a pistol, so...

I gave that a whirl and ended up with a bleeding cuticle.

I guess I'll, for the moment (read: til retirement) stick with my slow mag changes and hope that cover is available.

I would be curious to know how many hours (thousands) were spent honing this skill.

 

[Lindy]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

If you're a competition shooter like he is, that may be a skill worth honing.

If you're a defensive shooter, though, given the fact that very few defensive shootings require a reload, there may be more important skills to practice.

 

[Guest]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you're a defensive shooter, though, given the fact that very few defensive shootings require a reload, there may be more important skills to practice. </div></div>

Im king of hiding behind stuff and screaming "Stop that"

 

[jrhammons]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

My question is this. Is he counting to make sure he has one left in the chamber so that he doesn't have to rack the slide or release it. Its fast and smooth but how many just shoot until the slide locks back. I know that doesn't take away from the mechanics of the mag change itself and the practice it takes to get it right for the individual shooter but he makes it look like that is part of the whole process yet he leaves the slide out of it by leaving one in the pipe. I guess some guns with a fresh mag will unlock the slide and release it but I guess that is a whole extra maneuver.

 

[dlc356]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

It's faster to not shoot to slide lock. If you run it dry, you add a step to the reload (hitting slide release or pulling slide to rear).

The only folks I've seen run to slide lock in IPSC are newer shooters or someone who didn't plan the reload correctly (or in my case, had the reload planned but had to make up a miss and screwed up

). I've seen more IDPA shooters run to slide lock in IPSC matches but it seems to be due to the high round count.

NOTE: That was not a shot at IDPA shooters just what I've seen.

 

[Wil]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

I shoot to slidelock in IDPA 'cause it's faster to dump the mag than to reload with retention...lol

 

[macthknife]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shaggyback</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I would be curious to know how many hours (thousands) were spent honing this skill. </div></div>

Same here. I would also like to have His ammo budget.

 

[Vereor]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you're a competition shooter like he is, that may be a skill worth honing.

If you're a defensive shooter, though, given the fact that very few defensive shootings require a reload, there may be more important skills to practice.</div></div>


Really? The basics of pistol manipulations are-drawing, loading, <span style="font-weight: bold">reloading</span>, and reducing a malfunction. That's like saying there is no need to be able to run because there are very dew instances requiring one to go farther then the distance form their house to their mailbox....

I do the thousand-yard stare when it comes to this stuff. Everyone says "but he's a competition shooter", like somehow that means they won't make a canoe out of your head!...

I was just at an FBI shooting course where almost every instructor talked shit, or down played competition, yet everyone of them also showed videos of comp shooters as an example of what is capable. Interestingly (though it shouldn't be because it is the norm), 90% of the "students" somehow believed they were as good, or could do what the comp shooters did.

 

[Lindy]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

The skills involved in competition shooting are not the same skills as required of a competent defensive shooter.

For example, many competition stages start with the shooter drawing and firing at one of more targets while stationary in the starting box or position.

In real life, only a fool will stand still and present a stationary target - what Clint Smith calls "full-value numbnuts" - to a threat.

It's almost always possible to draw and fire while moving to cover, and skill at shooting that way is far more valuable to a defensive shooter.

A shot that rarely occurs in competition, but whose need for real-life defensive shooting is important is shooting from the retention position with the pistol very close to your body, out of the reach of a close threat. That shot is much more important for a defensive shooter practice than a competition shooter.

Another example - a shooter can shoot many competition scenarios which involving shooting from behind cover much faster if he is very close to the cover and even extends his pistol in front of the cover to get a better angle on the targets.

However, that's not a good idea in a real fight, as bullets impacting on the cover can injure him or disable his pistol.

The same is true of shooting over the top of hard cover, where incoming rounds are likely to ricochet over the top of cover impacting the upper part of the shooter's body.

There are many more examples of tactics or practices which are bad in a real fight which are encouraged in the name of speed in competition.

I've seen people putting in a lot of time practicing tactical reloads, because those are often done on the clock in IDPA competitions, while that is a skill in real life that is not going to be performed under time pressure.

Shooting in competitions is a great exercise in weapons manipulation and shooting skill, which I highly recommend. They are not, though, trainings in tactics, and a shooter is well advised not to pick up bad habits and practices which will increase his risk in a real fight.

 

[Arch]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

Great video. Setting up the AMU was a brilliant move by the U.S. Army in my opinion. Everyone of those guys I have met have been humble and professional. What's more, they are eager to share and teach.

Certainly good practice is the key to acquiring good skills but professional units attract professionals and potential professionals.

 

[Lindy]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shoot to slidelock in IDPA 'cause it's faster to dump the mag than to reload with retention...lol</div></div>

Tweet! Failure to do right! 20 second penalty!

 

[mgd45]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

Lindy,

Great post. A few years ago a co-worker & I went to a nearby rnage where they hold ISPC matches on the weekends. We were the only LEO's there at the time, & I had a total blast with all the shootings. During a break, one of the other shooters asked me if I thought this was "good training" for LEO's.

I told him that the only aspect of this I found useful for training purposes was how this type of shooting really makes you better at handling your pistol, manipulating the controls, moving while shooting, shooting from cover...etc...HOWEVER.....

It was not good training in that in the real world we don't get 5 minutes to walk through a "building" to see where all the targets are situated & then run through as fast as we can blasting at any man sized looking target.....LOL!

 

[Lindy]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...in the real world we don't get 5 minutes to walk through a "building" to see where all the targets are situated & then run through as fast as we can blasting at any man sized looking target.....LOL!</div></div>

You <span style="font-weight: bold">DON'T</span>? Well, that's just not <span style="font-style: italic">fair</span>...

 

[Wil]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shoot to slidelock in IDPA 'cause it's faster to dump the mag than to reload with retention...lol</div></div>

Tweet! Failure to do right! 20 second penalty!

</div></div>

no penalty... Unless the stage specifically calls for it, it is totally legal to dump a mag (empty) and reload without having to retain said mag. Now, dumping rounds to get to slide lock is illegal; and it will earn you a penalty.

...and gaming the stage is part of the game sometimes....<grin>

 

[Lindy]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now, dumping rounds to get to slide lock is illegal; and it will earn you a penalty.</div></div>

Yeah, I are an IPDA SO - and that was my point. But have we seen people do that and get away with it? Yeah!

And extra round or two is excusable on the ground of fixing a bad previous shot, maybe, but I've seen that limit pushed many, many, times.

 

[Wil]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

lol... I've 'made up' a shot or two...

bent...but not broke the rules <grin>

 

[smokshwn]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mgd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lindy,

Great post. A few years ago a co-worker & I went to a nearby rnage where they hold ISPC matches on the weekends. We were the only LEO's there at the time, & I had a total blast with all the shootings. During a break, one of the other shooters asked me if I thought this was "good training" for LEO's.

I told him that the only aspect of this I found useful for training purposes was how this type of shooting really makes you better at handling your pistol, manipulating the controls, moving while shooting, shooting from cover...etc...HOWEVER.....

It was not good training in that in the real world we don't get 5 minutes to walk through a "building" to see where all the targets are situated & then run through as fast as we can blasting at any man sized looking target.....LOL! </div></div>

This may get a little rant like so please don't take it personally. I would just like to use your comment to make a point.

Your statement leads me to think that competition shooting only improves your gunhandling, manipulations, shooting on the move, etc. etc. but those skills are somehow negated by seeing the course of fire before hand.

The fact is that once I have built my skill level with manipulation, handling, moving, drawing, reloading etc. etc. to an unconcsciously competent level, I have now created a larger capacity to deal with the tactical problem at hand. In doing so I have exponentially increased my chances to dominate that encounter.

In my experience there are very many people who look down upon the competition shooting (IPSC, USPSA, IDPA, etc.) as not being helpful from a defensive standpoint. Yet a good number of these same people lack the ability to perform fundamental skills at 100%. What any form of competition shooting gets you is multiple repetitions of fundamentals with a mild inducement of hormone related stress response. This is exactly the "stress inoculation" we always talk about. The only difference I am seeing is that so often we see a large gap between the skills shown by a competition shooter and ourselves and want to find comfort by pointing out that they aren't defensive enough . Instead of diminishing their accomplishments as "not defensive" why don't we take it as a challenge to bring that level of skill to the defensive or tactical realm.

 

[rgkeller]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

The skills involved in practical pistol shooting are exactly the same skills required in a gunfight.

The tactics are not.

The US military sends the units and people most likely to use a pistol in combat to schools and courses that are taught by USPSA shooters because those shooters have successfully studied and employed the cutting edge of pistol shooting techniques.

 

[Lindy]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The fact is that once I have built my skill level with manipulation, handling, moving, drawing, reloading etc. etc. to an unconcsciously competent level, I have now created a larger capacity to deal with the tactical problem at hand. In doing so I have exponentially increased my chances to dominate that encounter.</div></div>

I agree completely.

It is possible to shoot some competition stages "blind".

At an IPDA club at which I used to shoot near Houston, we had some stages where there was no stage briefing. The COF was set up so the shooter moved through an obvious sequence of positions, and was told to eliminate threat targets and not to shot the non-threats, which were clearly marked.

But that's competition.

As far as training goes, force-on-force training is where you wind up after establishing basic competency with the firearm.

 

[smokshwn]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

Lindy, Shaggy et al

We are definitely running down the same road.

My frustration lies in those that dismiss any type of competitive endeavor as a waste or a detriment to defensive/offensive skill. All the while not possessing a solid grasp of those basic fundamentals themselves.

Given the lack of training budgets and the endless series of "line up on the X yard line and fire two shots center of mass" qual courses, the expectation of well designed/supervised force on force training is a stretch. This is where competitive shooting can work to fill a gap in the all too common present day training. However, all to often it is dismissed with the "its not real enough" attitude.

 

[Vereor]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

Competition is used to <span style="font-weight: bold">test</span> gun handling, reloading, accuracy and speed while under the stress of the timer. It has nothing to do with "tactics". Nor should it. It is measuring skill. Trying to measure "tactics" in competition, is akin to measuring tactics during a PT test... Fucking retarded.


Furthermore, for those that try to dismiss competition, two of the best gunfighting addresses on the planet hold some of the best IPSC matches one can find anywhere, every month....

 

[smokshwn]

Re: how fast can you change a mag?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vereor</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Trying to measure "tactics" in competition, is akin to measuring tactics during a PT test... Fucking retarded.


</div></div>

I hope you don't mind if I use that, it's golden!