How much would it take for you to quit your job?

M

maccrazy2

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 2, 2009
135
4
48
10 minutes S. W. of denver
#1
Hello everyone.
I have been at my day job for 5.5 years. I have a side buisness making custom pool cues. I have recieved an offer to go to china and teach a wealthy man there how to build pool cues. He is offering what I make in 6 months to go there for 1 month, expenses paied.
I am comfortable in my day job and it is the animal I know. I have health benifits, retirement, paied vacation ect.. However if I take this offer I could come home and take a couple months off. I have never had more than 1 week off at a time since I started working as a teenager.
I am going to meet with the owners tomorow to see if I can take a leave of absence to do this but I am fairly certain the answer will be no. The owner may say yes but his wife will likely over rule him.
So I am torn about quitting to do this. As a mechanic I can get a job easy but then you never know how it will be. I did alot of job hopping prior to being at this shop. However 6mo pay is hard to pass up plus a trip to china. I have a friend who lives there who is how this offer came about. So, I will have him and his wife to translate for me while there and they will act as tour guides.
I am really leaning twards going as these offers dont come around every day. So, what do you think?
 
#2
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

No regrets....new jobs are not hard to find. I would take the month in China and see if that can lead to other ventures in the future. Your mechanic creds should roll over to get you landed some where else if the China deal doesnt work out.
 
#4
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

You only live once! That is one of those deals that if you don't do it you may very well regret it fr the rest of your life. If you are comfortable with getting a new job upon your return I say go for it. Good luck.

On a different note, send me some info on your cues. I love to play pool and have several nice cues. I have a Joss that Dan made me years as a gift, a few old McD's, a nice Schon, and an super old Viking that belonged to my dad, and a couple others.
 
#5
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

I'd take it in a heart-beat.

1. Free trip to china

2. Ass-ton of money


If #1 didnt get you to jump up and down saying "YES!" then something is horribly wrong.
 
#6
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

Have you looked at the unemployment figures lately?

There are probably a hundred qualified folks (conservatively) who would kill to have your job. Any job. Once your month is up, they will be ahead of you in line for any job you might be able to do. I give it maybe 50/50 chance your job will not be open when your month is done. In the current economy, many an employer would simply leave the vacancy open and put the workload onto your currently fellow workers. They'll love you for that.

I suggest you read up on "The grasshopper and the ant...".

This is precisely the reason our economy is in the tank, folks choosing the short term over the long term.
 
#7
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

This came up a lot during the Pipe Line (building) days in Alaska. I was working for the Anchorage Police Dept. The Pipe Line companies were offering tons of money (we weren't making that much back then) to hire cops as security. Lots of guys quit to take the high paying jobs. I stayed. As the pipe line progressed Anchorage started paying more to keep cops.

After the pipe line was finished, these guys were hunting jobs, I was well paid w/bennies. Now I'm retired living comfortly on my pension and healt care. They are still working, or trying to get by on Social Security.

Over the years, my gross income well exceeded that of those who quit to get rick.

Six months pay all at once does not last six months.

To add to this, I retired (from APD) at 46, I haven't had to work, I've travel all over. When my wife was deployed I was able to go to Kuwait to stay with her (Only E-6 Soldierette in the ME with an O3 hooch boy). Get to travel around shooting and road trips on my Harley. And to think I could be working min wage as a night watchman somewhere to supplement my SS, if I'd went to work on the pipe line.
 
#8
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

A good wrench can find a well paid, quality job, in about 15 minutes, if they are known as such, by others in the trade.

Anyone that can work with they're hands and produce a quality product the employer can profit from, will never go hungry. Or be w/o work unless they want to be.
 
#9
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

Here's what I'd do. I'd meet with your employers, and start out by saying that it's been a good five years for both of you. You've had a job, he's had a reliable employee.
The China trip is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and tell tehm that you'd like to be able to come back to your job. See what they say.
Then go- if they don't want to hold your job, ask if you can use them as a reference. When you come back, go straight to them and tell tehm you're back and ready to work, regardless of whether they kept your spot or not. The new guy might not be working out, or they might not have found one yet.
Plan on being VERY frugal with your money. Also, how is this guy going to pay you? Up front, I hope, as you have a lot to lose if you don't get paid. What's it going to do to your taxes, and what will it actually net you? That money may have to tide you over a few months of unemployment.

But I'd go.


1911fan
 
#10
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

Go ahead. Take your Chinese vacation and teach the rich Chinese guy how to make a good cue. Within a year's time, he will not only put many American Cue companies out of business, he will put their employees in the unemployment line. He will make money off the American Pool Cue Supply industry and infuse teh Chinese economy with more of our dollars.
If you do this, please make sure you post not only pictures of your cues, but your prices so we can remind you how you helped kill the American Cue Stick business with this trip(this means you will go out of business as well because we won't buy your sticks because of what you caused)
Sure, go ahead, call me an asshole. Me, I am the last guy who will directly assist the Chines in taking over our markets. I will, though, insure all my cue's come from Cuetec, and American company with years of patents in the Pool Cue industry and the holders of a global distribution of American Made Cues(this means they are keeping pool cue jobs and pool cue economic dollars right here in the USA) Besides, I really like their Starlight series, especially the red one.

266a.jpg


So, now that you have heard the few inputs to your idea, make your decision for this little vacation and ask yourself if it is truly worth it. My guess is you will let the rich Chinese man know that if he wants to learn how to make cue sticks, he can go elsewhere
 
#11
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

Switch beat me to the punch and said it better than I could.

Teach a wealthy man how to make a pool que? Do you think he's asking you to do this out of the kindness of his heart? Get real man!

Pretty soon you'll have guys in the USA all happy about how they've found "X" pool que on sale for pennies on the dollar from your competition. Funny thing is, the big company ALWAYS has your competition on sale. It's easy when the labor rate is jack and shit compared to here.

Hey come to think of it does your connection in China have someone who can make me shipping container loads of my nylon products for pennies on the dollar too? That way I could sell my stuff as on sale all the time too.

NOT! That'll never happen with my stuff I don't care how big the carrot is.

I think you'll regret it if you go.
 
#13
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

Thanks to Switch and Tony for stepping up and adding LOGIC to this thread. And Kraig, also.

To the OP, don't be so young and impressionable. Start to build some morals, self-respect, and esteem. Then you'll progress into maturity.

In more ways than one.
 
#14
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

Keep your day job, and keep your side business of making cues(if they are superb, high quality pieces). If you persist, and take the small steps of a side business along with the big growth spurts a good side business gets, you will be rewarded in due time for your integrity, diligence, craftsmanship, and quality like the rest of the gentlemen who own self owned business here and have taken the steps to be successful over the long term. If you can craft a solid, reputable, repeatable cue with all the traditional cue markings, along with a little bling in red and white and silver(the colors of Engineers, Artillary, and of course some golden yellow pinstriping for the Marine Corps) I would save my money for it. I have shot a few Cuetec sticks adn love them, especially the graphite line(I own a red graphite stick that is some11 years old).
I have a cheap Guinness stick my family got me at the local mall a few years back. Sure it looks cool with all it's green white and gold, but it shoots for crap just like any basic house stick. My red graphite stick serves me well until I can get my own 8' table and Starlight series cues to go with it...currently loving the 'Mendocino' from 'familyleisure.com'

Pool-Tables-Billiards-Tables-Mendocino-12481.jpg


As a way to relax, I love the game and it's variants. For my future table I see red velvet on that piece, and yes I like it because of it's name as well as it's architecture because you see, Mendocino is straight Nor-Cal Country.

Stick it out and run your business. You may be suprised at what you can do with proper mentorship and dedication. Ask TBurkes, Tactical, and SniperCJ about it. They have stood by their businesses through it all and have seen great success because of it. You would do well to learn from them
 
#15
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

I would say , If he is rich and wants to market your cue, to work it as a business partnership with you holding 51%. I have been an avid billiards player for years and quality built cue's are hard to come by and expensive. Just like weapons, it takes several to find the right one.
 
#17
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

Is 6mos of pay, worth selling yourself out? How about all the business it will move to china, like switch said.

This is what is wrong with our country, we are so short sighted, no one looks at the long term picture. Keep your job, dont sell out for 6mos of pay, build your own cue business, and retire.
 
#18
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

Change in routine, adventure, new challenges, new people, travel, and that is only counting the new work opportunity. When you get back you still have the chance to have one hell of a vacation. I think the breath of new life this opportunity is breathing in your direction is well worth the few potential negatives. Of course, you might well be training the guy who will price your current side business out of the market in a few years.

I have never regretted big life changes and travel, even when it cost me. I say go for it!

Edit: Okay, I must admit, I read your post quickly and saw money, travel and new horizons and posted my response without thinking on it. I will now eat crow and say I was lazy and in a hurry. After reading a bit more I must agree with the naysayers. Sure the vacation would be nice and having an apprentice would be rewarding but the cost is far too high. We need all the small business and craftsmen we can get to keep their business and their arts in the USA. Easy money is hard to pass up but it never comes free.
My conscience is clear again, that is all.
 
#19
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

I guess there is always two sides of a coin and after Kraig and Switch pointed out some others I can see both sides now. I would have to lean the other way after the points they made.
 
#20
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

He is going to learn how to make a quality pool stick with or without your help so the opinions around how you doing this would contribute to the demise of the american workforce is radical at best.

I think that 1911 fan's adivce is spot on. Being open with your current employer, assuming you are a very valid resource to them, is the best route to go. I think that if they respect your work and your value is equal or greater than your compensation they would find a way to work around your 4-week LOA.

Be flexible with them, if pipeline tasks are high and CAN'T be without a body for 4 weeks, offer to travel once a suitable temporary worker is identified and brought up to speed by you.

 
#21
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doubled</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He is going to learn how to make a quality pool stick with or without your help so the 'facts' around how you doing this would help with the demise of the american workforce is radical at best.

</div></div>

I didn't want to point that out being a rookie here but you are correct. It's not as if the OP is an oracle and only he possesses the information needed to make a solid stick. It's an opportunity. You're young. Take it. Live it out as hard as you can and learn everything possible.

Some advice: Money up front. Contract stating exact expectations and obligations. Learn about China and its laws and government. Trust me on that one. If there is an opportunity to partner or profit share (assuming he's wanting to profit from your information) get in on it. Negotiate.
 
#22
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

Having been in the position of discussing an offer with a current employer, I think I'd not do it again.

Few things foul the water more than acquainting one's employer to the idea that their employee(s) could be less than total in their loyalty. It's an idea whose time never comes.

Putting it another way, the British never trusted Benedict Arnold with anything important for the rest of his life.

A successful employment relationship needs no complications added. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.

Greg
 
#23
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

he's not discussing an offer, he's requesting a LOA for 4 weeks to go do something which I think, depending on his value vs. comp, is a very reasonable request.
 
#24
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

Greg, The OP stated this was a side business so he absolutely wouldnt be in direct competition with his employer. In my opinion the real "Benedict Arnold" here is his employer if they want to throw a fit about a few months leave of absence. Five and a half years at the same place of employment is not a short amout of time these days. If you've been good to them they in turn should be good to you. If the owner's wife can't understand that maybe they will realize it once you are gone and they realize how worse off they are without you.

I'll step aside the anti-chinese argument, but I will say that if life goes on even when you do quit your job. You won't starve. You very possibly will have gained valuable life experiences in China and hopefully in the following months off. If you're getting paid for 6 months worth of work, then go on a two month adventure! If you are unburned with debt and without young children to take care of then live life and go for it.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having been in the position of discussing an offer with a current employer, I think I'd not do it again.

Few things foul the water more than acquainting one's employer to the idea that their employee(s) could be less than total in their loyalty. It's an idea whose time never comes.

Putting it another way, the British never trusted Benedict Arnold with anything important for the rest of his life.

A successful employment relationship needs no complications added. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.

Greg </div></div>
 
#25
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

I'll also add that any suggestion of %age and/or dealing would be tantamount to pointless. Simply because the 'deal' would most probably fall under Chinese law and structure.

Not your local home-town courts. Ergo, another idea shot to hell. If you got paid for your trip, then that would be about all you could EVER expect back. Reliably.

Check it out, I could be wrong. It happened, once.

But I was mistaken.
smile.gif
 
#27
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

Negotiate for 6 month's pay and a small percentage of his sales.
If his business succeeds, you're set. If it doesn't, you'll need to find work when you return.
 
#28
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

Ignore the 'it's all your fault the American cue workers flounder' noise. If that was the case then GE, GM and the thousands of American companies who have shifted production, technology and expertise overseas for decades are far more at fault than little ol' you and the glorious cue market...

Do/Think along these lines:

Tell the Chinaman that you'd consider his offer only if he, after learning how to make cues, sells his products into the North American market through you (get it all in writing). Get sole distributorship. Tell him through your current clientele and means you have good channels to market and can get his products registered with manufacturer reps etc to realize quick, deep and profitable market penetration.

Say to him that with the right financing, you can set up a premier, low-cost cue manufacturing capability either in the US or in China and really make this work. If in the US then you are to be placed in charge of production (and guess what you get to hire Americans...) If in China, then he has to hire you as the production process consultant - get the rates agreed and get some contract in place (in conjunction to the distributorship).

Think BIG, grab a chance and make the most of it. That's the American way.

ps - I've been to China several times, it's a shit pit but the Great Wall is pretty stunning.
 
#29
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

Don't be dazzeled by the flattery of someone wanting your knowledge or product without first understanding their motives. Business does one of three things, dies on the vine, nurtured by you and grows to produce now and more in the future, or is picked by someone else so they can reap the benefits. Understand this is not a bash on you and very cool that you not only have a marketable skill that has fed you for 5.5 years but a talent for something that can be a niche market and garner you that much more income. Just looked it up a 10 day trip to China $1299 - $100 plus in savings a month gets you a cool trip without having to spend time teaching someone else what you have worked hard to master. Ultimately it is your life but think about this someone wants your skill set so they can appreciate the profits of that skill that should tell you that maybe your not pushing your potential. Hell I did not even know there was a market for high end cues, guess I need to shoot more pool.
 
#30
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

WOW! alot of response.
I just read thru the posts and to clarify a few things. I am not sharing top secret info. There are companys who sell everything from the machines to the materials to videos and books on every step there is to building cues. There are people in the industry who make commercial machines and go overseas to set up factories and train staff on production. While I have no doubt there could be other motives at work, there are other people out there better suited than myself that could be hired to help him set up a production line if that is what he wanted.
This is as much about showing me off to his friends as it is about making cues. I am making a list of machinery that he will buy and have in place before I get there with the capacity to make up to 100 cues a year. Likely he will be closer to 50.
This is a personal friend of someone I know who lives over there now. I spoke with him again last night and he says the guy is all fired up about making his own sticks and wants to try to sell some locally, same thing I did. However I have no controll over what he does down the road.
There are some comments about putting americans out of work like cuetec. Cuetec is made in china and distributed thru imperalusa. I think there were a couple american make models in the past but as far as I know they are all imported now. You are talking about low end production cues. I am talking about high end one of a kind cues that collectors custom order. I do not have a catalog of cues. Every one is custom ordered by a collector or serious player. There are tons of builders in the phillippines and all around asia. They do not fetch the prices american builders do. Could this change in the future, sure. Anything is possible but. If cues from there are selling for more than mine then I am doing something wrong and I need to step up my game. I sell in the price range of $1500-5000 and sometimes higher. At that range it is about the artistry not who can make it cheaper.

So I spoke to my day job shop owner today and his response was better than expected but as I guessed he needs to discuss it with his wife. I will know wed. if I can take a leave of absence.

As for finding another job if I leave this one. It is no problem for a good auto tech to find a job. The industry is way short on good trained people. The only issue for me is I am fairly happy where I work and I would have to start all over on benifits. however, after a quick browse thru craigslist there are shops closer to home that are offering more than I make now per flat rate hour and they offer similar benifits. So, there are lots of pros and cons.

As for the posts about getting paied. It is money up front before I get on a plane. He is fine with that.
 
#31
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

Very educational and I had to go out on the web and see what all the hoopla was about cues. Well damn you are indeed in a unique situation. With your further explanation it sounds like this guy has some coin and is looking to start a new hobby. That being the case seize the moment and have fun. There are plenty of folks here who have learned their particular trade craft whether shooting guns or building guns and gear from someone else and are now working it into a cash endeavor. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
 
#32
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

I looked over a few of the responses in this thread. I especially liked the one from KraigWY. He was in the military, and retired.

If something like that was on the table for me in the future, I'd look to it. In all honesty, our situation is going to hell in a handbasket. Retirements and incentives are slowly getting cut away from mil. retirements. I wholeheartedly doubt it will even exist in 17 more years when I look to it.

One of societies most "secure" jobs, is quickly become more and more unsecure...

So with that being said, with this opportunity to jump ship and start anew, I think why not. Just play your cards right, and dont get left with your dick in your hand
 
#33
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: platypus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very educational and I had to go out on the web and see what all the hoopla was about cues. Well damn you are indeed in a unique situation. With your further explanation it sounds like this guy has some coin and is looking to start a new hobby. That being the case seize the moment and have fun. There are plenty of folks here who have learned their particular trade craft whether shooting guns or building guns and gear from someone else and are now working it into a cash endeavor. Good luck and let us know how it turns out. </div></div>
I think that is exactly it. When they first called me I pointed them to leonard Bludworth. He makes machines for production and does training. They said they were not looking for that. I really think he just wants to brag to his friends about who he got help with his hobby from.
I have pretty much decided to go for it. I am really hoping I can work something out with my day job to take the time off. If not, I will likely get a job paying a few bucks more per hour but will have to start all over on PTO and benifits.
 
#34
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alderleet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I looked over a few of the responses in this thread. I especially liked the one from KraigWY. He was in the military, and retired.

If something like that was on the table for me in the future, I'd look to it. In all honesty, our situation is going to hell in a handbasket. Retirements and incentives are slowly getting cut away from mil. retirements. I wholeheartedly doubt it will even exist in 17 more years when I look to it.

One of societies most "secure" jobs, is quickly become more and more unsecure...

So with that being said, with this opportunity to jump ship and start anew, I think why not. Just play your cards right, and dont get left with your dick in your hand </div></div>
I just reread his post. The only retirement I will have is my 401k and IRA's There is no pension in this line of work unless you take a job with the city working on cop cars or school buses but even those are getting phased out.
 
#35
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

The only retirement I have is SSD and VA. I'd probably still be working, but the doctors nixed that back at the beginning of 2005.

I had a business, savings, and a nice 401K. Illness wiped out my health insurance policy, all of the private thrift/retirement, the business, and has left us with medical debt in the low-mid 6 figures, toward which we contribute a healthy chunk of our government-supplied income monthly, and would appear to be likely to continue doing for some years to come. Folks here are probably aware of our family health issues in 2004 and 2006. But this actually started for us back in the mid-90's when I contracted Lymphom for the second time in five years.

And the hits just keep on comin...

This is not as uncommon a situation as one might think, and will probably increase over time. It's also a reason why I am not so quick to arch my back over government health plans. If it wasn't for Medicare, we'd wide open vulnerable to even the simplest additional health hiccup; and yes, we do own medicare supplement plans, something akin to barn doors and vanished horses, but something is better than nothing.

There are a lot of legal strategies that might offer relief from the medical debt, but I figure that with the burden we represent to our fellow taxpayers, we should not seek to shirk some of the financial responsibility ourselves. To some degree, Medicaid has already provided some relief. Maybe our approach is not so 'smart' but it has a sense of decency and honor about it.

So this is not a moan or pity party, simply a bit of a revelation to folks here who might think they're in a tight spot. Try doing a mile in my shoes.

Greg
 
#36
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

Whoa, folks!

I said this wan't a pity party.

I've already received several PM's expressing sympathy. I thank those who did, but tell you all that honestly, it's embarassing and completely opposite my intentions in recounting my experiences.

We'll never be rich, but we're coping. My intent was to suggest that there are a lot of folks who haven't reached our degree of coping yet.

<span style="font-style: italic">They</span> are the ones who deserve your attention.

Greg
 
#37
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go ahead. Take your Chinese vacation and teach the rich Chinese guy how to make a good cue. Within a year's time, he will not only put many American Cue companies out of business, he will put their employees in the unemployment line. He will make money off the American Pool Cue Supply industry and infuse teh Chinese economy with more of our dollars.
If you do this, please make sure you post not only pictures of your cues, but your prices so we can remind you how you helped kill the American Cue Stick business with this trip(this means you will go out of business as well because we won't buy your sticks because of what you caused)
Sure, go ahead, call me an asshole. Me, I am the last guy who will directly assist the Chines in taking over our markets. I will, though, insure all my cue's come from Cuetec, and American company with years of patents in the Pool Cue industry and the holders of a global distribution of American Made Cues(this means they are keeping pool cue jobs and pool cue economic dollars right here in the USA) Besides, I really like their Starlight series, especially the red one.

266a.jpg


So, now that you have heard the few inputs to your idea, make your decision for this little vacation and ask yourself if it is truly worth it. My guess is you will let the rich Chinese man know that if he wants to learn how to make cue sticks, he can go elsewhere </div></div>I really don't understand the logic of your post. It is in the interest of consumers to have as many options as possible and if the Chinese or any other country enter the market place with a quality product it is a benefit to everyone. If the American cue manufacturers make a better product then they should be able to sell it for money and stay in business. If you as a consumer would like to pay a premium for an American product it is certainly your prerogative to do so.
 
#38
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

Ask you rboss. Beg, plead whatever. Maybe offer to use some of the money to help him keep the lights on while you are gone. Whatever.

I would totally let you go if you were my employee, as long as you could give me sufficient notice to get the scheduling right. It does sound like a once in a lifetime opprotunity.

And as has been mentioned, there are always stores looking for highly qualified technicians. That means you have your ASEs and know what the hell you are doing. If you are just a wrench monkey with no school and no certs its a different story.
 
#39
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

I'd do it if I were you. But hold back. Don't teach the guy everything. Teach him just enough to get started and let him figure out the rest.

As far as consumers go, screw them. I am living for the day when our choices are ALL American made. We will all benefit from it.
 
#40
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

When your consumers lose their incomes due to offshore job flight, they cease to be consumers.

Some offshore producers are functioning with favorable export policies and tariffs which allow their products to undercut domestic ones. Couple that with fewer OSHA/Environmental hurdles to hop, and they become even more skewed conpetitively.

This would be a logical basis for trade import tariffs, but we exist in a society which has chosen to turn its gaze away from such a more obvious approach.

I think this makes it less a matter of preference, and more a matter of compulsive survival tactics that drives American marketers to outsource their production offshore.

The logic you fail to understand becomes perhaps more understandable when one factors in the rather significant tilt offshore production in our current tariff framework introduces to the playing field.

Offshore producers function in an environment where the workforce experiences a lower living standard, and a simpler regulatory structure. The imbalance inherent in our own structure represents a more enlightened and empowered society, but that society exists at the cost of hobbling its own vitality.

Logic suggests that the offshore society will eventually undergo its own enlightenment and empowerment on our own model given time, but it's highly doubtful that our own society can survive that time span waiting for that playing field to level back out of its own accord.

It's rather understandable that such logic evades those whose logical framework clings to simplistic idealism.

Unfortunately, real life doesn't work that way.

Greg
 
#42
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

If this Chinaman is so rich, let him come to you. You are the Guru.
You can keep your job, while he outfits a nice machine shop, takes your evening classes, and does homework all day while you are at work, then gives you the machine shop after he leaves. You get a contract with exclusive American sales rights.
Let him pay for his own housing.
He is probably not a rich guy, he is probably a Chinese government machinist/tooler, who is on assignment to reverse engineer your trade secrets, and mass produce them.
Either way he will do it.
 
#43
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

Hey Switch... Ya ever get up in the mitten, ill give ya a cue tec that can't be anything but a break cue. My Schon, and Joss do just fine for shootin.
 
#44
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

Damn, I am truly bummed. Everything Cuetec says implies they are 100% American Made. I grew up shooting pool on my grand dads table in the patio down in OC. From there it was the local barracks table or a few bars. Back home in Nor-Cal, there was a really cool pool hall with tons of game tables and tournament tables. They sold some nice sticks, with the highest priced ones being $500 or so...I thought that was a really high end stick for that, and that a $100 stick was somethin' special.
Mac, thanks for the education. $1500 huh? Hmmmm, table/rifle = $2k, Stick/Scope = $1.5k....same same. Now I have a new persctive to look at...of course I have never seen a cue for $1500 either. Now I really want to see a few pics!
 
#45
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TX_M10BA_Dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ask you rboss. Beg, plead whatever. Maybe offer to use some of the money to help him keep the lights on while you are gone. Whatever.

I would totally let you go if you were my employee, as long as you could give me sufficient notice to get the scheduling right. It does sound like a once in a lifetime opprotunity.

And as has been mentioned, there are always stores looking for highly qualified technicians. That means you have your ASEs and know what the hell you are doing. If you are just a wrench monkey with no school and no certs its a different story. </div></div>
I am a master tech of 15 years and worked in shops several years prior to getting certified. Getting a job is not hard, I just have to start over on benifits which is tough.
The owner was in agreement it would be a cool trip and sounded positive about the posibility of scheduling something for me. We will see tomorow.
 
#46
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When your consumers lose their incomes due to offshore job flight, they cease to be consumers.

Some offshore producers are functioning with favorable export policies and tariffs which allow their products to undercut domestic ones. Couple that with fewer OSHA/Environmental hurdles to hop, and they become even more skewed conpetitively.

This would be a logical basis for trade import tariffs, but we exist in a society which has chosen to turn its gaze away from such a more obvious approach.

I think this makes it less a matter of preference, and more a matter of compulsive survival tactics that drives American marketers to outsource their production offshore.

The logic you fail to understand becomes perhaps more understandable when one factors in the rather significant tilt offshore production in our current tariff framework introduces to the playing field.

Offshore producers function in an environment where the workforce experiences a lower living standard, and a simpler regulatory structure. The imbalance inherent in our own structure represents a more enlightened and empowered society, but that society exists at the cost of hobbling its own vitality.

Logic suggests that the offshore society will eventually undergo its own enlightenment and empowerment on our own model given time, but it's highly doubtful that our own society can survive that time span waiting for that playing field to level back out of its own accord.

It's rather understandable that such logic evades those whose logical framework clings to simplistic idealism.

Unfortunately, real life doesn't work that way.

Greg </div></div>So your argument is that because the United States has a higher standard of living, we should pay more for domestically produced products?

I work for an international shipping company. On a recent project we had the ships hulls and frames manufactured in Poland and then had them towed to Norway for final outfitting. The high end components like navigation systems, engines,automated control were primarily built in the U.S.

If I had not gone offshore with the project, I would have ended up with a vessel built in the U.S. but at a 40% greater cost which puts me at a competitive disadvantage.

It really is a global economy at this point. Labor at all levels have to be competitive or they lose.
 
#47
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

I fully suggest that you talk to your boss. I have more than 300 employees that work for me. Closed mouths don't get fed and most are surprised at options we can work out. 4 weeks off is not that long. If you are using your vacation, really, you are asking for a couple weeks leave. Easier to sell if you don't call in sick etc. For a good employee, if the choice was losing them or giving the time, trust me the choice is easy. A trip to China to visit your friends(save the details on the side business, that could be a deal breaker)is easy to say yes to if you give enough lead time or are flexible.
The other great advise, get your money up front...cash. The six months pay includes all the "overtime" you get right?
wink.gif

You may make a new business partner or even get a new job. The possibilities are endless. Roll the dice.
 
#48
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

Don't tell me what my argument is, I don't need others putting words in my mouth. If that's what you <span style="font-style: italic">really</span> think my argument is, you really <span style="font-style: italic">don't</span> have a clue.

Of course things shouldn't cost more to produce in the US, but as you say, they do. I'll leave you to figure out why, you seem to be so good at that. For starters, look up OSHA and EPA. Our foreign competitors treat their producers like friends, imposing no such hurdles, and easing their ways with subsidies and tax allowances. Our own government treats our producers like criminal suspects and cash cows. I think it's a wonder any significant business interests continue to survive in the US at all.

My beef is with the US import tariff structure and foreign government export subsidies/tax allowances that allow the offshore producers to undercut American goods in our own markets no matter where we price them. The term is 'dumping'. It's probably the singular main reason the American steel, ship building, and heavy manufacturing industries are no longer able to compete on an economical scale. The automotive industry has also been circling the drain, and dumping plays a large part in that situation as well.

It has been well understood and recognized for decades already.

Yet, the US Government steadfastly refuses to either acknowledge this or take action to raise import tariffs so foreign goods are forced to compete on an equitable basis.

Did you ever wonder why nations like China and the like are making such enormous political contributions to American politicians? Does this reasoning truly escape you?

That is why Americans are being converted to unemployment/welfare clients, as their jobs are exported along with the revenues those jobs generate. Those jobs have been brazenly sold, by American politicians, to foreign political contributers.

I won't argue whether OSHA and environmental production standards/requirements for domestic goods result in a better product, but I strongly believe that every penny of foreign government export subsidies should be matched by US import tariffs.

When you outsource your production offshore, you are a direct contributer to the problem. The very reasons you cite for getting your work done in Norway, etc., are the precisely same evidence that backs up my argument. Yet <span style="font-style: italic">you</span> insist <span style="font-style: italic">my</span> arguments are flawed. If you really want to know who the perpetrator is for this slide the American economy is in, all you need to do is look in your own mirror. You said it yourself, it's an issue of profitability. In order to make a short term profit, you forsake your own fellow American workers' employment over the long term.

Business is about more than profit. A business which ignores the plight of the American worker in favor of profitability soon looks up and realizes that they will soon need to find offshore markets, because there are no more American workers who can afford their goods. Some might argue we've already reached that point.

And now I'm done with this subject. The only reason I'm discussing any of this with you at all is because you deliberately chose to criticize my comments. It would have been impolite to ignore your citique. But now your tone has become argumentative, and I'm gonna leave you on your own when you head off on that tack. Nobody ever 'wins' an Internet argument.

Done, and done; and I leave you the last word.

Greg
 
#49
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

I mjust revise my postion now that I have a more clear understanding of the cue stick industry(I became enlightened and a little educated).
This is a great oppurtunity to not only increase your wallet(the potential has been outlined well herein), it is a great oppurtunity to experience China and it's culture. It is also a way for you to find another market for your superbly crafted sticks. I can only really see negative things coming from this if you let yourself 'be taken' and fall victim to a course in how to fleece an American.

I have to agree in that most of our basic cue sticks, and those under $200 are already made offshore. I also have to agree that this probably will not impact US how I originally envisioned with my limited information.
For what this kid makes, the market can be worldwide, and there will be many who try to copy his skill and few who will succeed.
Me, well I never made or sold a cue stick that was more than what most pay for a car. That, folks, is serious skill.
 
#50
Re: How much would it take for you to quit your job?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't tell me what my argument is, I don't need others putting words in my mouth. If that's what you <span style="font-style: italic">really</span> think my argument is, you really <span style="font-style: italic">don't</span> have a clue.





When you outsource your production offshore, you are a direct contributer to the problem. The very reasons you cite for getting your work done in Norway, etc., are the precisely same evidence that backs up my argument. Yet <span style="font-style: italic">you</span> insist <span style="font-style: italic">my</span> arguments are flawed. If you really want to know who the perpetrator is for this slide the American economy is in, all you need to do is look in your own mirror. You said it yourself, it's an issue of profitability. In order to make a short term profit, you forsake your own fellow American workers' employment over the long term.

Business is about more than profit. A business which ignores the plight of the American worker in favor of profitability soon looks up and realizes that they will soon need to find offshore markets, because there are no more American workers who can afford their goods. Some might argue we've already reached that point.

And now I'm done with this subject. The only reason I'm discussing any of this with you at all is because you deliberately chose to criticize my comments. It would have been impolite to ignore your citique. But now your tone has become argumentative, and I'm gonna leave you on your own when you head off on that tack. Nobody ever 'wins' an Internet argument.

Done, and done; and I leave you the last word.

Greg </div></div>While I think you are well intentioned, you are also clearly ignorant. The U.S. has a law in place called the Jones Act. If effectively says that if a foreign flagged vessel picks up a load of cargo in the US, the vessel must then make a stop at a foreign port before it can return to the US. Because of the extra stop, it makes it completely impractical for any vessel not flagged US to work in coastwise trade. Because the US vessels have this protection in place, many US Shipyards are still employing the same construction methods that they used during WW2.

We took our bids to ship yards in Washington State, Louisiana, Alabama and Florida. Not one of them had the infrastructure or the expertise to make the molded hull. All of them told me that I would have to pay more because the plans CAD plans were in metric and that it would confuse their work force.

As I said before the net cost was 40% more. When you operate a company, you are responsible for it. You also answer to different people depending on the structure. Im my case I answer to three different private equity groups and a commercial lending group composed of five banks all of them from the U.S. Before I could build anything I had to get approval from them.

"Excuse me, I would like to build four new ships in the US. The hulls will have a bunch of sharp angles, the finished product will be inferior and oh year it will cost me 40% more money but I will be supporting the American worker."

I would have been told no, or I would have been told no and fired.

The ship industry, the steel industry and other traditional manufacturing businesses have been undone in this country because of protectionist legislation that allowed the companies to stand pat rather then stay competitive. These industries have also been hurt by artificially high labor cost (unions) which have priced them out of the market.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

PatMiles
One in Four Gen Z Job Applicants Bring Parents to Interview.
Replies
35
Views
1K
John Barleycorn
John Barleycorn
sirhrmechanic
Cutting the cord advice, tips and how-to's!
Replies
39
Views
1K
The D
The D
eastexsteve
Backup generators - I've used them for decades. My take..
Replies
80
Views
2K
Earnhardt
E
Lowlight
Some of you guys are in for a surprise
Replies
736
Views
28K
DarnYankeeUSMC
DarnYankeeUSMC
lonegunman762x51
007, Daniel Craig
Replies
49
Views
1K
Ichi
Ichi
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Merch
Alerts