How often do you clean?

[Rmitch223]

I just got my first custom barrel installed and I want to make sure I'm taking care of this barrel properly.

How often do you clean out carbon?
a. What cleaner do you use?
How often do you clean out copper?
a. What solvent do you use?

I'm not talking about break in at all. Talking routine cleaning.

Thanks!

 

[spife7980]

Every 3-500 rounds. Wipeout or boretech c2/c4 depending on the flavor I feel like that day.

 

[MK20]

Clean? What is this 'clean' you speak of?

I clean every 3-500 rds or when accuracy drops off.

 

[Huskydriver]

I don't until it stops grouping...I'll wipe the action out and the bolt off it it's Dusty...my current 6.5 Creed barrel is in excess of 800 rounds not a single cleaning yet still shooting lights out

 

[Dstoenner]

After every range session. I usually shot a minimum of 80 to 150 rounds. I use Montana Extreme Bore Solvent for carbon and copper. I also use Kroil with JB Bore Brite, which is a rouge, to polish the bore. It will also help with both left over copper and carbon. If I think the throat needs a good scrub, after I have done the Montana Extreme, I use Kroil with JB Bore Compound concentrating on just the throat.

David

 

[davsco]

i clean after every match. hate putting something dirty back in the safe. one of these matches i am going to go around fingering everyone's chambers and see how dirty they really are, can't believe so many rarely clean.

i run a few patches soaked with butch's bore shine thru the barrel, let it sit for 5-10 minutes and then a bore brush a handful of times, and then run patches thru til they come out clean.

 

[Huskydriver]

i clean after every match. hate putting something dirty back in the safe. one of these matches i am going to go around fingering everyone's chambers and see how dirty they really are, can't believe so many rarely clean.

i run a few patches soaked with butch's bore shine thru the barrel, let it sit for 5-10 minutes and then a bore brush a handful of times, and then run patches thru til they come out clean.

Wtf should I clean it if it's hammering?

 

[Fauropitotto]

Wtf should I clean it if it's hammering?

Because imaginary benefits make people feel good inside.

 

[eklarsen]

Do you only wipe your butt after 20 trips?

 

[CuTm]

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/objective-research-on-barrel-break-in-procedures.27321/

 

[Huskydriver]

Do you only wipe your butt after 20 trips?

Your right... We should probably clean every shot like the benchrest boys.... Sub moa accuracy and good barrel life is only achievable if you clean every shot cuz my grandaddy told me so

 

[Mike Casselton]

Do you only wipe your butt after 20 trips?

The butt goes against my shoulder so it doesn't get dirty unless I sit it on the ground.

Wait a minute...

Which butt are you referring to?

 

[kthomas]

Wtf should I clean it if it's hammering?

Because it sucks when your rifles accuracy suddenly goes to shit as it was time to clean your rifle. Would really suck during a match, or something else of similar importance.

I use to be that way (reactive). Now I prefer to be proactive rather than reactive. By cleaning every 200-250 rounds, I completely mitigate my accuracy going to shit.

Find out what works for you and your rifle. Cleaning every range trip or day match is probably over doing it. But a better strategy than trying waiting until your rifle "tells you" that it's ready for a cleaning, is to clean it before you suffer from that accuracy degradation.

 

[isofahunter]

140 rounds on bolt guns and 80 rounds on AR10 based on documented behavior of the rifles. YMMV.

 

[Nik H]

Clean the chamber and bore every time using just patches and do it at the range before I go home.

 

[clcustom1911]

Bolt gun: 1-2 pulls of a Bore Snake with Hoppes #9 every 100-150 rounds or so.

simple and easy. After a few thousand rounds through different rifles (1000+ through my Proof 6.5CR, and thousands through my factory Savage 308 ?) I've never had "accuracy drop off".

 

[jordan0317]

I clean at the beginning of my last practice day before a match. Give myself time to put 80-120 rounds back through on my last practice/zero day then shoot the match, and any subsequent practices/training sessions afterward.

 

[JeffLebowski]

I used to be of the "never clean until accy drops" camp. Two things happened that changed that.

1. I had a 6.5x47 go out on me at 900rds. I had cleaned once or twice during that time. I ended up needing to troubleshoot 4 or 5 things to try to figure out what the deal was. Clean the barrel, measure the lands and chase, mini-load Dev to try to bring it back in tune, etc. That eats up 100 or so rds and a couple of days if you can shoot every day. And the chore of cleaning a very dirty barrel is worse when you don't keep up with it. Coppering and carbon rings are the two big ones that catch guys that don't like to clean and build up over time. And they're a bitch to deal with after the fact. I also now believe that throats erode slower when kept clean, but I don't have any science to back that up. Just my running theory until I find out different.

2. I shot an Fclass match with my gunsmith. He cleans his rifle after every match. Goes into sighters with a clean bore. Shoots 42 out of 60 rounds across 3 relays into an aggregate 1/2 moa F open Xring at 600yds. The throat on his XC eroded fractionally less than my x47.

I now clean my match barrels after every match. I measure the lands on a clean throat, borescope it to observe the condition of firecracking, take notes on that barrel's portion of my dry erase board and then hang the barrel up. I like to know the condition of the barrel. I don't want to "set it and forget it" and then have to go thru the 7 steps of grieving/ troubleshooting when I lose velocity or accuracy.

Additionally, I have have 11 or 12 TL-3 barrels hanging on the wall. In various stages of rd count. I need a system that eliminates the headache of keeping up with that many projects, loads, and degrading barrels. I can't just mil'it & kill'it with that many barrels without getting lost in the sauce. Now, i don't clean excessively. Boretech Eliminator and patches. Every couple of cleanings a brush will come out depending on how the coppering looks in the barrel.

Here's a question for you: When are you going to find out that you lost accuracy?

Answer: In a match.

If you never clean it, statistically you have the greatest chance of being presented with a problem during the 80 - 250rd match. Not during your 10rd zero check & true.

I would also caveat that the rule of when to clean can't be generically applied to every type of gun. ARs, suppressed, unsuppressed, pistols, bolt guns have different needs.

Are you retired sans family?

 

[gnochi]

I run a boresnake through after every day of shooting. On a related note, tie a thread to the loop on the bore snake for when the string on the front inevitably pulls out.

 

[JeffLebowski]

No kids, E8 active duty, wife makes more than I do: x2, drinking non-problem, no impulse control

You’ve definitely got more free time than I.

 

[Huskydriver]

No kids, E8 active duty, wife makes more than I do: x2, drinking non-problem, no impulse control

Lol living the dream...

 

[jordan0317]

Lol living the dream...

Damn right he is hahahaha

 

[Huskydriver]

I used to be of the "never clean until accy drops" camp. Two things happened that changed that.

1. I had a 6.5x47 go out on me at 900rds. I had cleaned once or twice during that time. I ended up needing to troubleshoot 4 or 5 things to try to figure out what the deal was. Clean the barrel, measure the lands and chase, mini-load Dev to try to bring it back in tune, etc. That eats up 100 or so rds and a couple of days if you can shoot every day. And the chore of cleaning a very dirty barrel is worse when you don't keep up with it. Coppering and carbon rings are the two big ones that catch guys that don't like to clean and build up over time. And they're a bitch to deal with after the fact. I also now believe that throats erode slower when kept clean, but I don't have any science to back that up. Just my running theory until I find out different.

2. I shot an Fclass match with my gunsmith. He cleans his rifle after every match. Goes into sighters with a clean bore. Shoots 42 out of 60 rounds across 3 relays into an aggregate 1/2 moa F open Xring at 600yds. The throat on his XC eroded fractionally less than my x47.

I now clean my match barrels after every match. I measure the lands on a clean throat, borescope it to observe the condition of firecracking, take notes on that barrel's portion of my dry erase board and then hang the barrel up. I like to know the condition of the barrel. I don't want to "set it and forget it" and then have to go thru the 7 steps of grieving/ troubleshooting when I lose velocity or accuracy.

Additionally, I have have 11 or 12 TL-3 barrels hanging on the wall. In various stages of rd count. I need a system that eliminates the headache of keeping up with that many projects, loads, and degrading barrels. I can't just mil'it & kill'it with that many barrels without getting lost in the sauce. Now, i don't clean excessively. Boretech Eliminator and patches. Every couple of cleanings a brush will come out depending on how the coppering looks in the barrel.

Here's a question for you: When are you going to find out that you lost accuracy?

Answer: In a match.

If you never clean it, statistically you have the greatest chance of being presented with a problem during the 80 - 250rd match. Not during your 10rd zero check & true.

I would also caveat that the rule of when to clean can't be generically applied to every type of gun. ARs, suppressed, unsuppressed, pistols, bolt guns have different needs.

Totally agree on the gas guns...

I guess maybe when I start being able to drive my rifle well enough to notice when my 3rd 6.5 barrel shoots out I will come update you guys if I am converted to cleaning again ? till then we will see if I can shoot this throat out without cleaning.

I'm sure a great deal of wear is cartridge design. It seems alot of the br style cartridges seem to benefit the most based on guys claimed cleaning regimens. My thing is this...I prefer my rifle ready to shoot in the state I collect my dope in...I never collect useful dope on a clean barrel because I want one less variable to dick with when it matters most so I disagree I'm at my highest potential for failure without cleaning. Obviously as round count goes up that chance increases. I am however at a really high chance of my dope being different freshly stripped to bare steel.

I also agree that I do wipe my bolt and rails down.

Ruben you 10th group?

 

[arm017]

I clean at least every 200. Always before a match.
Bore tech eliminator is a crowd favorite amongst multiple rifle disciplines.

 

[Huskydriver]

I like how everyone posts awesome "first 10rds out of the barrel! So and so gunsmith did a great job" groups. Your barrel will shoot very well extremely clean. I would argue that the idea of destroying a barrel thru reasonable cleaning procedures is just as much of a confirmation bias as the idea that a barrel HAS to be cleaned. I do believe you can run a barrel for hundreds of rounds and it will hammer. The problem, IMO, is when it stops hammering.

Again agree but I guess I have yet to have a barrel when it starts opens up from the lands getting burned that it's not still 1/2 mil of man sized target or still right around an moa at 100 for awhile at least several hundred rounds later. We will see when if I shoot out this barrel this summer. I should double it's round count but July.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Your right... We should probably clean every shot like the benchrest boys.... Sub moa accuracy and good barrel life is only achievable if you clean every shot cuz my grandaddy told me so

Post from accurate shooter, doubt many of us could compete with this guy. We all have a plan, I consider accuracy loss from fouling a disruption that never needed to take place. Your just flat out done for the day, unless you carry cleaning supplies, screw that.

 

[Lkwoolsey]

For the barrel, every 300ish rounds, sometimes up to 400. I clean the bolt and action after every range session. Never had any issues doing it this way

 

[MK20]

After every range session. I usually shot a minimum of 80 to 150 rounds. I use Montana Extreme Bore Solvent for carbon and copper. I also use Kroil with JB Bore Brite, which is a rouge, to polish the bore. It will also help with both left over copper and carbon. If I think the throat needs a good scrub, after I have done the Montana Extreme, I use Kroil with JB Bore Compound concentrating on just the throat.

David

DO NOT DO THIS!!!!

Yes, you need to clean your rifle. No, you don’t need to be anal.

Jacob Bynum, Frank, and another guy whose name I don’t remember all bought .308 rifles at the same time. One guy was a cleaning fanatic, Jacob and Frank only cleaned when accuracy dropped off or when they thought it was about time.
The cleaning nut’s barrel gave out at around 4500 rounds if I remember correctly.
Frank’s and Jacob’s lasted past 10000 rounds.
I have personally had Jacob tell me that over cleaning has probably damaged more rifles than anything else.

But you can listen to Mr. JB Bore Bright if you like buying barrels.

 

[patriot07]

When accuracy begins to drop off. On my Tikka, that's around 250-300 rounds normally. I would typically always clean before a match if the round count is expected to be anywhere near needing another cleaning. Otherwise, I keep rolling til the groups open up.

 

[b6graham]

every 250-400. timed around matches. if i'm close to 200+ ill clean and refoul before a 2 day. if it's a 1 day less worried about it

 

[whatsupdoc]

So here is a question for all the "I clean when accuracy drops off" guys.

How do you determine when accuracy has dropped off? And what reduction of accuracy triggers a cleaning?

 

[Huskydriver]

So here is a question for all the "I clean when accuracy drops off" guys.

How do you determine when accuracy has dropped off? And what reduction of accuracy triggers a cleaning?

I'm still figuring that out. My last 6.5 barrel I was probably punching the tube every 400 but it didn't change my accuracy once fouled each cleaning. I did notice a slight poi change immediately following each time I cleaned back to bare steel.

This barrel I'm still firing away with not a single patch through it yet. Ran the bore scope in it last night and I don't see a carbon ring or signs of copper build up.

I useually do a cold bore shot and initial string data collection every range session before I shoot for distance and I theorize I should see it there. My groups average .6 right now at 100 so if in start seeing them go to 1" I will probably punch it and see if it goes back to .6 and I'll learn for myself if I think cleaning is necessary for the type of shooting I do. I don't have bench rifles, I have field rifles so I don't expect benchrest accuracy out of them or me. If I can consistently get first round hits out to 1500 on man sized steel it's good enough for what I train for.

I have no problem being wrong but I also think alot if our cleaning rituals are smoke and mirrors where guys just perpetuate myths. I will learn for myself in time I guess

 

[morganlamprecht]

every 250-400. timed around matches. if i'm close to 200+ ill clean and refoul before a 2 day. if it's a 1 day less worried about it

this is generally my plan also

usually every 150-300 rounds, worked around it being recently cleaned before a 2 day...1 days, ill shoot whatever

ive had barrels that i cleaned maybe once every 6-800 rounds and they shot great...ive had others (not many) that wouldnt shoot for dick after 50-75 rounds of fouling, even after multiple cycles of shoot a bunch/clean/repeat (had 1 replaced, and replacement was a hammer)

ive had and seen others (especially 6mm) that have gone from hammers to 1moa-ish barrels in 3-400 rounds and cleaning brings them right back...so like Reub said above, i just stay ahead of it now

last few barrels ive kept up with keeping them regularly cleaned have all been consistent performers, even once velocity starts to drop...once they start shooting bad, no amount of cleaning has saved them, theyre just toast

last 6mm i checked, even cleaned/cold shot good enough to use for the most part...was still sub moa and the velocity was about 40 fps slower for the first 3-5 rounds...when i took it to a match, i just favored the top of the plate for the first few shots

 

[arm017]

DO NOT DO THIS!!!!

Yes, you need to clean your rifle. No, you don’t need to be anal.

Jacob Bynum, Frank, and another guy whose name I don’t remember all bought .308 rifles at the same time. One guy was a cleaning fanatic, Jacob and Frank only cleaned when accuracy dropped off or when they thought it was about time.
The cleaning nut’s barrel gave out at around 4500 rounds if I remember correctly.
Frank’s and Jacob’s lasted past 10000 rounds.
I have personally had Jacob tell me that over cleaning has probably damaged more rifles than anything else.

But you can listen to Mr. JB Bore Bright if you like buying barrels.

There is something called a randomized controlled trial, and statistics...

 

[arm017]

In general- I think you need to take this witch craft / black magic topic with a grain of salt. Think about the sheer number of variables involved in the question of does cleaning decrease barrel life? - what agents, what bore size, what type of powder was used, what type of steel, inner bore diameter, type of rifling- all to lead to a relatively intangible and subjective end result where people say a barrel still 'shoots'.


Pay attention to who is giving you advice and the justification behind it.

Morgan, reub, sheldon, myself, many other on the forum all have the pile of barrels to give you actual real world evidence beside parroting what they heard or read somewhere.

We are telling you to stay reasonably on top of cleaning....

 

[patriot07]

So here is a question for all the "I clean when accuracy drops off" guys.

How do you determine when accuracy has dropped off? And what reduction of accuracy triggers a cleaning?

1. Develop a load
2. Clean rifle
3. Foul
4. Within first 20-30 rounds, determine typical group size
5. Run it until it no longer shoots like that

For my Tikka, it goes from about 1/2 MOA to maybe 1 MOA or a hair bigger. It doesn't open up to 3MOA all of a sudden. But I do think this can vary from gun/powder/bullet combo.

 

[ThePretzel]

So here is a question for all the "I clean when accuracy drops off" guys.

How do you determine when accuracy has dropped off? And what reduction of accuracy triggers a cleaning?

Do load development for the rifle, and once you have a load you know what kind of accuracy to expect. Every time you check your zero you can shoot a 3 or 5 shot group to make sure the accuracy is in the same ballpark.

For me I know it's time to clean once my load is finally no longer shooting better than 1/2 MOA, but it's a different threshold for every rifle because every rifle has a different expected accuracy. I just know that during my load development process groups that were larger than 1/2 MOA were rare, and they never happened with the final load I settled on considering I could shoot two 10-shot groups back to back and they'd still be at or under 1/2 MOA.

As far as my cleaning schedule goes, I always clean my action and chamber after every match. Colorado blows silt everywhere, so there's no point leaving it in those parts of the gun. For me, I've found that my gun will allow about 300-500 rounds through the barrel before accuracy starts to drop. If I have a 2-day match coming up I'll clean the bore early just to make sure it doesn't go in the middle of a match, but otherwise I wait until I've shot at least 300 rounds and see an accuracy problem.

 

[lawofsavage]

Just for peace of mind on match barrels, after every time I shoot, I'll run a few patches through with a mild cleaner/oil just because you're looking at around $800.00 for a Bartlein spun up by a top smith and I don't see what that could hurt and in my mind it protects the bore a little haha but I'm definitely far from an expert.

If you've got enough time I agree with trying to time it up where you'll be in the 50-300 round count range as far as rounds after cleaning if you're going to a match. Hell, you've spent a lot of time and money on all sorts of other shit and training time, might as well do that also before you head out for the weekend/day.

 

[Lowlight]

It's context and understanding your rifle,

Never clean is within the context of your shooting schedule, if I am shooting it every week, especially a couple times a week I don't clean until accuracy falls off. BUT....

If I am going to a match, I clean it prior to the match.

If I am putting it away and will not be shooting it, I clean it. (Not always but I try)

If I am out and the wind is blown 50LBS of sand into the rifle, I clean it

Cleaning the barrel and keeping the rifle functional are two different things meant for two different purposes. I can clean the rifle and still not "clean" the barrel. Doesn't mean I am not cleaning the gun, I am just not scrubbing the barrel or using solvents.

Heavy solvent use is not needed, you have to two kinds of cleaning, one that cleans it shiny, removing the copper and all carbon and one that keeps the good copper in place and removes the dirt, carbon and other things like dirty oils and grease.

Here in the powder dust with high winds you need it pretty dry, so it's a lot of wiping it down.

This is the game of telephone, where guys don't understand context and just repeat the buzzwords, "clean when accuracy falls off". if you go to a match and it goes south because you did not clean it, that is YOUR Fault and not the methodology of the practice.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Just for peace of mind on match barrels, after every time I shoot, I'll run a few patches through with a mild cleaner/oil just because you're looking at around $800.00 for a Bartlein spun up by a top smith and I don't see what that could hurt and in my mind it protects the bore a little haha but I'm definitely far from an expert.

Removing soft carbon after an outing never hurts, and takes minimal time. Run a wet patch of most anything down the barrel, let it sit for a couple minutes, jag it out, wipe the chamber clean. Most of the time it eliminates a cold bore shot too.
I myself shoot so much, most of the time it is 20-25rds for 2 rifles per outing, tough to clean on that schedule. And like everyone else I lock the guns up right away, so never practice what I say works.
But I do know, the longer you wait, the more times you put a rifle up after an outing w/o cleaning, the harder the carbon is to get out, esp that shit in the first part of the barrel, the fouling at the muzzle is easy.

 

[Dstoenner]

DO NOT DO THIS!!!!

Yes, you need to clean your rifle. No, you don’t need to be anal.

Jacob Bynum, Frank, and another guy whose name I don’t remember all bought .308 rifles at the same time. One guy was a cleaning fanatic, Jacob and Frank only cleaned when accuracy dropped off or when they thought it was about time.
The cleaning nut’s barrel gave out at around 4500 rounds if I remember correctly.
Frank’s and Jacob’s lasted past 10000 rounds.
I have personally had Jacob tell me that over cleaning has probably damaged more rifles than anything else.

But you can listen to Mr. JB Bore Bright if you like buying barrels.

I appreciate your concern. But my own experience hasn’t born that out.

The last barrel I “wore out” was my 260 Remington barrel I used for F-class. I made it to 2850 documented rounds when my 100 yard practice groups were not holding .5 to .7 inch groups. It was the end of a season so I changed to my new barrel. The throat had advanced .125 over those 2850 rounds. Cleaning isn’t going to alter a throat. I do use Montana Extreme nylon brushes.

My 6br barrel made it to 2600 rounds when I pulled it.

Both of these barrels are giving me the rounds that I have read other people are getting. For me consistency is what I need for matches not something going sideways at the wrong time

David

 

[bfk4lyfe]

Sort of on topic, are you guys putting lube or grease on the lugs of the bolt?

 

[b6graham]

Sort of on topic, are you guys putting lube or grease on the lugs of the bolt?

Grease

 

[Nik H]

I've used both. Can't say I have a preference

 

[GungHo]

I only clean if the accuracy drops off. I use the patchworm kit. Its amazing. Works for all calibers. I use ballistol too. Also put the balistol on the bolt.

Home - PatchWorm

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www.patchworm.com

 

[Dstoenner]

Sort of on topic, are you guys putting lube or grease on the lugs of the bolt?

Yes Sinclair red bolt grease

David

 

[Subwrx300]

Put me in the 400-600 camp, same as a few others here. I don't want to have a 2 day match that I start with 500+ rounds on barrel.

I cleaned the bore:

1. New zero rounds, then
2. 50 rounds then load development, practice plus 1 one day matches
3. 400 rounds then 2 one day matches and practice
4. 850 rounds then 1 day and 2 day matches plus practice
5. 1150 rounds (last night) fouled with 40 rounds of practice and chrono. Have 400+ rounds expected over next 2 weeks and will clean after those are complete.

A borescope can go a long way to help understanding how clean is right amount. If you remove too much carbon/copper, you may see velocity can drop and take a few extra rounds to get back to speed (maybe 35-70). Clean too little and you really haven't done much to keep it in the "sweet spot.".

A buddy of mine just crossed 1000 without a single cleaning since day 1. He said it wasn't shooting as tight ( tossing slight flyers), so we cleaned bore thoroughly and 10 rounds later it was hammering. Velocity picked back up to normal at about 65 rounds.

Good notes and and planning are your best tools to when and how much to clean the bore.

 

[pineoak]

150 or more (never at the range), anytime it pass is 150, I clean it at home

Long day 300 Rd’s, no problem

Wipeout/patchout
A few patches, then soaked patches again
Left overnight
Patch again until white

Use bore guide
NO brushes

Always before matches or a long day

Never all perfect clean before a match

 

[223ai]

I use foaming bore cleaner followed by a boresnake whenever I remember to do it.

 

[SoCal326]

kanemiker on gunhive has an interesting take on barrel cleaning and it has some logic to it. Who knows if it its correct but its a good story.

The idea is that velocity affects barrel harmonics and velocity increases as the barrel becomes fouled. If you tune a load on a clean barrel then that's where it'll do best. The alternative is to never clean your barrel. Shoot it and when you get to about 300 rounds you'll have hit max fouling and max velocity. At that point your velocity and harmonics should be consistent. Develop your load at that point and it'll run consistently for the life of the barrel, assuming you don't clean it.

This story can explain a lot. Everyone has their own voodoo because they're all chasing accuracy at a different point in the barrels fouling cycle.

• Clean every 20-30 rounds.
  • Keep velocity it as it was when new.
• After about 150 rounds...or whatever
  • Random Guess
• Your barrel will tell you.
  • Cleans when velocities fall outside his accuracy node.
• Never
  • Wait until you hit max fouling, then develop your load. Velocity stay consistent and you should stay in your accuracy node.

Can anyone tell me if this is a reasonable explanation?