How to most efficiently calculate windage under time constraints?

[BoltBandit]

New member here and I'm also shooting my first PRS style match through the Guardian charity in Georgia. I would like to know what the most efficient process for calculating wind, especially under a time constraint. This could be applicable in hunting situations as well I would suppose, we all know wind is fickle and doesn't wait around for a solution. Regardless, it's obvious that consulting a ballistic calculator with each shot is completely out of the question. Here are some thoughts running through my head.

1. Do you calculate windage based on your 5 minutes of observation prior to the stage and put that info on your DOPE card?

2. Do you plug in the environmentals for a 10mph 90 degree wind and calculate on the fly from there? If so, do you correct for spin drift before you've corrected for wind speed and direction? (Ex .2mils correction would be multiplied by .75 for a 2 o'clock wind) Or do you calculate for speed and direction THEN add the correction for spin drift?

3. How accurate of a wind chart should you use? Full value and 3/4 value only? Or should I break it down further than that?

4. What ballistic information do you try to commit to memory?

And surely, feel free to mention youre own techniques and processes as I've said before, I'm new and always learning.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

old school..............get out and shoot a lot in varied conditions
old school...............keep a log book
old school...............wear a barrel out
old school...............shoot skeet
old school...............pay attention

 

[Sheldon N]

Here's a good thread on the subject with some prior comments.

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...e-on-quick-wind-reading-match-skillz.6886479/

I approach it by making an initial wind call estimate with an additional low/high wind speed. Wind call is based on kestrel, watching others shoot, watching mirage, knowing what wind has been doing on prior stages, listening to other shooters talk, etc.

I will write that out as a grid on my dope card for each target distance (low/middle/high wind). That way if I'm on target #2 and the wind drops off to my "low" speed right as I transition to target #3 I've got it written out in front of me on my dope sheet, just move one column to the left for my wind hold for target #3, and so on.

Then observe as you shoot. Where did my last shot hit? What do I feel on my face for wind? What do I see in my scope for mirage, movement of splash/dust, vegetation? Hard to see and observe everything and think clearly under time constraints/adrenaline but that's the goal.

 

[BoltBandit]

Here's a good thread on the subject with some prior comments.

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...e-on-quick-wind-reading-match-skillz.6886479/

I approach it by making an initial wind call estimate with an additional low/high wind speed. Wind call is based on kestrel, watching others shoot, watching mirage, knowing what wind has been doing on prior stages, listening to other shooters talk, etc.

I will write that out as a grid on my dope card for each target distance (low/middle/high wind). That way if I'm on target #2 and the wind drops off to my "low" speed right as I transition to target #3 I've got it written out in front of me on my dope sheet, just move one column to the left for my wind hold for target #3, and so on.

Then observe as you shoot. Where did my last shot hit? What do I feel on my face for wind? What do I see in my scope for mirage, movement of splash/dust, vegetation? Hard to see and observe everything and think clearly under time constraints/adrenaline but that's the goal.

Thanks for the reply! So you don't really worry too much about changes in wind direction?

 

[BoltBandit]

old school..............get out and shoot a lot in varied conditions
old school...............keep a log book
old school...............wear a barrel out
old school...............shoot skeet
old school...............pay attention

LOL, haven't worn a barrel out yet, but I'm thick, hence the extra advice

 

[Sheldon N]

So you don't really worry too much about changes in wind direction?

The main time your going to run into that is when shooting with a tailwind or headwind that switches. At that point watching the mirage in your scope and feeling the wind around you is about all you can do. Trying not to get screwed too badly is the goal, but that's a tough situation to shoot in.

 

[NovaHunter]

Practice spotting your misses and sending follow-up shots quickly. You'd be surprised how many shooters, and even high scoring ones, use the stratedgy of "send it" and then correct based on impact.

 

[BoltBandit]

Practice spotting your misses and sending follow-up shots quickly. You'd be surprised how many shooters, and even high scoring ones, use the stratedgy of "send it" and then correct based on impact.

What scope power to you use to spot your shots? I have a Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5x25, and struggle to see trace if there is not a dust cloud.

 

[pewpewfever]

We were using the same scope at our first match last week. I couldn’t see mirage at all and was also told I won’t be able to see well enough to distinguish most recent point of impact on metal targets at range It’s just a limitation of optical clarity on less expensive scopes. I upgraded to a Schmidt already.

 

[BoltBandit]

We were using the same scope at our first match last week. I couldn’t see mirage at all and was also told I won’t be able to see well enough to distinguish most recent point of impact on metal targets at range It’s just a limitation of optical clarity on less expensive scopes. I upgraded to a Schmidt already.

Wow, really? Being that the Gen II VIpoer uses the same glass as the Razor Gen I, I wouldn' think that would be a reality. I can almost always see it, I just suck at interpreting it. It's never the nice squiggly lines that you see in the diagrams. Then again, maybe a SB will allow you to see that. Too rich for my blood at the moment.

 

[NovaHunter]

What scope power to you use to spot your shots? I have a Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5x25, and struggle to see trace if there is not a dust cloud.

I rarely see the trace, but can often see my impacts, both on the target and when I miss. For 80% of stages at a PRS match I shoot 8 to 12 power. If there is a prone stage that is all 1000+ yards then I'll zoom it in to 15x, but rarely do I go past that. A wide FOV is greatly preferable to more zoom.

Recoil management and solid fundementals are key when shooting positional stages. You don't want the gun moved off the target by the shot. Keep both eyes open and watch. Use the reticle as a ruler. If the reticle is still on target and you see the bullet splash .5 Mil to the right, Run the bolt, put the .5 mil mark on the target and fire.

At the WAR match last weekend we had constant 10mph winds, with 20-30mph gusts. It was nearly impossible to make a wind call because the wind changed 4 times in 90 seconds. One stage was a roof top where we shot 4 targets starting around 400 yards, and going out to 1050. That last target I made a guess that my wind hold was 2.0 Mil Right (Running a 6.5x47 so about 20mph full value wind). I missed the full IPSC by about .5 a Mil, saw my miss, reloaded, corrected to a 2.5 Mil hold and pulled the trigger just as the buzzer sounded and got the impact.

Only reason I got that point was because I spotted my miss. I think I was using 8x to 10x on that stage because it was an uncomfortable position, plus multiple targets, so I wanted as wide a FOV as possible.

Edited to add: I am running a 3.5-21 Bushnell ERS. Good mid tier scope.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I’m no expert in wind by any means.

I make a “guess” on what I think the wind is doing at shooter. Then I use kestrel to check it. (This encourages learning to read wind without meter).

I use what I determined to be wind speed, give it the appropriate value, and then use what my “gun mph” is for that distance and calculate my hold.

Now, once on the rifle I will try to find something at the target to verify the wind is at least moving in the same direction as it is at shooter. If it’s not, I make take some off or add some. It’s kind of a feel thing. Still working on it as it takes a long time to develop.

And I bracket wind on the target to give me the most room for error I can.

Now, the first shot is insanely important. Even in I make an first round it.

If I miss, I obviously see which side I missed on to adjust fire. But what I also look at (especially if I couldn’t find an indicator before the shot) is which way the dirt(hopefully dirt anyway) from my miss, blows. I use this as the wind indicator for my target.

If I make an impact, I pay very close attention. Either dirt from in front of the plate where the bullet deflected to, or dirt/spawling from the target with splash out. I look to see which way this dirt or spawling blows.

I also pay close attention which way the target moves first, left, right, or center.

I use the target movement along with the dirt/spawling to *attemp* to make a better wind call if I’m not centered up.

So, even don’t just be looking for a miss. Look at th impacts too. This will help you center up you shot for a higher percentage hit ratio as the closer we are to center, the larger room for error we have.

 

[pewpewfever]

I just started shooting matches and got a weatherflow. Maybe it’s just the time of year or coincidence, but I find the wind speed is varying rapidly and the wind is shifting direction between mostly cross and mostly tail. I have tried to pick an average wind speed and direction, and off the clock I can take my time and send it as the wind is shifting between the two extreme directions. But I don’t know if that is the best approach, or what to do under time pressure except try something averagish and quickly adjust based on point of impact for a follow up.

I like the idea of trying to make the wind call first without the meter. I will start doing that. I’m concerned that the wind at my meter may not match the wind down range where the projectile is traveling more slowly and will be most effected, so sharpening my wind reading skills and making the wind call in real time through the scope is a goal of mine.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

I’m concerned that the wind at my meter may not match the wind down range where the projectile is traveling more slowly and will be most effected

This is something debated over and over again on forums, but in reality it doesn't matter. Any base wind you choose to use out to 1000 yards is an average anyway.

The difference between a bullets true base wind from 100 to 500 vs 500 to 1000 is less than 1mph.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I just started shooting matches and got a weatherflow. Maybe it’s just the time of year or coincidence, but I find the wind speed is varying rapidly and the wind is shifting direction between mostly cross and mostly tail. I have tried to pick an average wind speed and direction, and off the clock I can take my time and send it as the wind is shifting between the two extreme directions. But I don’t know if that is the best approach, or what to do under time pressure except try something averagish and quickly adjust based on point of impact for a follow up.

I like the idea of trying to make the wind call first without the meter. I will start doing that. I’m concerned that the wind at my meter may not match the wind down range where the projectile is traveling more slowly and will be most effected, so sharpening my wind reading skills and making the wind call in real time through the scope is a goal of mine.

Ya. Frank explains it well. Wind reading is the art department and everything else is the science department.

Since we cannot accurately measure the wind throughout the trajectory of the bullet, it becomes an experience/feel thing.

Same thing with movers when you don’t have time to figure out what the speed of the target is and such. You have to get a feel for your rifle and make the shot connect.

 

[pewpewfever]

I shot my second PRS match today, this time with a 6mm creedmoor. Most of the time, any wind correction was overdoing it. But those 1000 yard plus targets still elude me for now. Most of my dropped targets were from running out of time, though. And I had stages where I couldn’t find any if the targets after the first one. But what I’ll always remember is when the spotter called out to hold a half a mil left after my first shot and I held half a mil right the rest of the stage. The wind down range was in a completely different direction than the wind at the line. I totally whiffed that stage. Doh!

 

[Dthomas3523]

I shot my second PRS match today, this time with a 6mm creedmoor. Most of the time, any wind correction was overdoing it. But those 1000 yard plus targets still elude me for now. Most of my dropped targets were from running out of time, though. And I had stages where I couldn’t find any if the targets after the first one. But what I’ll always remember is when the spotter called out to hold a half a mil left after my first shot and I held half a mil right the rest of the stage. The wind down range was in a completely different direction than the wind at the line. I totally whiffed that stage. Doh!

Were you searching with the scope or your naked eyes when you couldn’t find targets?

 

[pewpewfever]

Were you searching with the scope or your naked eyes when you couldn’t find targets?

Scope. I had it on low magnification, but if you’ve ever shot Triple C in Cresson, I think you know what vast landscapes we were dealing with. Can’t see many of the targets with the naked eye. And there are so many targets out there. Most of my problems were on alpha and south side. I do better on echo and foxtrot.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Scope. I had it on low magnification, but if you’ve ever shot Triple C in Cresson, I think you know what vast landscapes we were dealing with. Can’t see many of the targets with the naked eye. And there are so many targets out there. Most of my problems were on alpha and south side. I do better on echo and foxtrot.

Try spotting them with binos before the stage. Remember the landmarks that you can see with naked eye.

Then when transitioning targets, look over top of your optic, get the rifle lined up with that landmark, and then get behind the optic.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Example, target 1 straight ahead.

Target 2 is to left of crooked tree. Point gun at tree, get in optic, move slightly left.

Target 3 is between two brushlines. Point gun between brushlines, then get on scope.

Etc etc

 

[pewpewfever]

Example, target 1 straight ahead.

Target 2 is to left of crooked tree. Point gun at tree, get in optic, move slightly left.

Target 3 is between two brushlines. Point gun between brushlines, then get on scope.

Etc etc

Makes sense. Tried to do what you are suggesting, but this stage presented issues. Targets were only visible from an elevated platform. Only 3 people could go up at once and there was only one spotting scope trained on the last two targets. The general location of the first target was indicated to me, and I looked at the second two targets through the spotting scope. But I did not get to pan the scope and see target one or the path from target one to the other targets. So I spent a lot of time finding target one, and never found the other targets. I did try to look up and over the scope, but nothing looked familiar, it was a really tight view and it just looked different from prone position versus standing. Binoculars would obviously have helped in this case. At least one shooter got a perfect score on the day, so there must be a way to do it. I just bought a Swarovski btx 85 and that was my money for now. I think it will help on most stages. But this particular stage seemed to demand binoculars. So I will start thinking about those. I wouldn’t have thought about it, so thanks for the advice.

 

[BigTex]

Hold the edge and send it.

 

[Dougie308]

What he said.

I use laminated business-sized cards with not only yardage holdovers, but with wind info like; leaves move at 5-10 mph and etc. My dad called a SWAG (scientific wild-ass guess). All of it in one of those wrist thingys I got for $7 from one of the sites I frequent on clearance..

old school..............get out and shoot a lot in varied conditions
old school...............keep a log book
old school...............wear a barrel out
old school...............shoot skeet
old school...............pay attention

 

[jordan0317]

Hold the edge and send it.

Nailed it