I was thinking the thickness of 2-3 beef ribs. How many beef ribs would you say would simulate a bear skull when testing pistol bullet penetration.
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How To Simulate Bear Skull
- Thread starter 918v
- Start date
Grizz? I’d think more along the lines of a beef shoulder blade. You need about 1.5” thickness to simulate a big boy.
I'd go with ballistic gel, 3/4" plywood with a layer of wet, oak tanned 10-12 oz leather glued on and a piece of wet carpeting glued to that.
Wouldn't it be easy to find a place that processes cattle and buy some skulls. I'd imagine if you found the right folks, they would probably give them to you.
Review some scientific journal/article and find out the actual thickness of bear skull. Then procure some bones and grind them up into a paste add some glue and make your own bear skull mold?
Or roll around in blood and guts and use yourself as bait
Or roll around in blood and guts and use yourself as bait
Or more.
It's not uncommon for a griz to have a head about 25-30 inches in diameter and that forehead is sloped back at a steep angle.....and at least 2 inches thick of solid bone.
A rock the size of a serving platter and about 2 inches thick angled back would *maybe* get you close ?
Of course you can always think I'm wrong and check "snopes" to be certain....
Photo Accurately Shows Size of Bear Paw?
The paw seemingly dwarfed the size of the head of the man holding it.
www.snopes.com
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Skull bones in adult mammals are much harder (denser) then typical plywood.
According to @LuckyDuck all you need is a .40sw
www.snipershide.com
Dang it! I think I finally solved the puzzle.
As long as forums have existed- the proverbial question has always existed... "what is the best hiking gun"? I think I finally cracked the nuances behind the decades old question. The pistol has to be light enough... It has to be chambered in a caliber capable enough... it also needs to be...
www.snipershide.com
If I had to pull this test out of my butt and make a SWAG on penetration need, I'd probably start with (2) 3/4" sheets of plywood and make sure that you shoot it at hard angles.
FWIW, I've put bulls and plenty of cattle and horses down (we euthanize with a pistol at work) with the lowly .40 S&W (Speer Gold Dot or Hornady XTP). It works great from a perpendicular angle on a relatively stationary target. In no way would I feel comfortable in carrying that though in grizz or brown bear territory.
FWIW, I've put bulls and plenty of cattle and horses down (we euthanize with a pistol at work) with the lowly .40 S&W (Speer Gold Dot or Hornady XTP). It works great from a perpendicular angle on a relatively stationary target. In no way would I feel comfortable in carrying that though in grizz or brown bear territory.
I was in Barrow, AK. I taught at the HS and 3 nights a week out at the nearly abandoned USN base out towards the Point. Adult Basic Ed there. About 5 miles sort of along the beach.
One day it was snowing sideways about 40 mph, dark (of course) at 1730. I took a cab out there instead of the bus. It was some brand of minivan with a Phillipino owner/operator and I'm in the next row back, alone. He came to a stop and I asked what was wrong. He says Polah Beyah. I look and sure as shit, big boy comes walking right up to the van. Really hard to see him until he was about 8 feet away and only then because of the lights of the van.
Now, sitting in that van, my head was about 5 feet off the road. Big boy walks by, literally as big as the mini-van, and looks inside. His head didn't look like it would fit through the side door window. He looks in and around a little bit more, cabbie is on the radio not speaking English, I tell him to go, go, go. I felt like a sardine in a can.
EDIT: That bear was quite a bit taller, on all fours, than the van. Maybe 18" taller, more at the hump of the front shoulder. I can't tell you the adrenaline rush with only a piece of glass between him and dinner.
Barrow cops come to the college and hang out. Not many of us there that night but they figured the bear was hungry and knew we were there.
When I first started going out there it was still fall. Of course, not much liquid water around. I was running that road with my backpack on, staying fit and shit. Cop rolls up, lights on, asks me how it's going. Asks me what the fuck I thought I was doing. Tells me to get in. Takes me on out to the base but all the way is telling me how dangerous it was for me to be walking, let alone running, along that road. Then, when he gets us to the building, he walks in with me with a 3 ring binder. He starts flipping through pages and pages of bear pictures. I never walked that road again. Once in a while, maybe once a month or so, the cops would tail a bear through town. They would be on loudspeaker and shortwave telling everyone to not go outside, get your dogs in, etc. Fairly often use a flash-bang to keep them moving along and not like being in town.If a dead walrus washed up, there would be dozens of bears feasting.
No fucking way I'd feel good with a 223
One day it was snowing sideways about 40 mph, dark (of course) at 1730. I took a cab out there instead of the bus. It was some brand of minivan with a Phillipino owner/operator and I'm in the next row back, alone. He came to a stop and I asked what was wrong. He says Polah Beyah. I look and sure as shit, big boy comes walking right up to the van. Really hard to see him until he was about 8 feet away and only then because of the lights of the van.
Now, sitting in that van, my head was about 5 feet off the road. Big boy walks by, literally as big as the mini-van, and looks inside. His head didn't look like it would fit through the side door window. He looks in and around a little bit more, cabbie is on the radio not speaking English, I tell him to go, go, go. I felt like a sardine in a can.
EDIT: That bear was quite a bit taller, on all fours, than the van. Maybe 18" taller, more at the hump of the front shoulder. I can't tell you the adrenaline rush with only a piece of glass between him and dinner.
Barrow cops come to the college and hang out. Not many of us there that night but they figured the bear was hungry and knew we were there.
When I first started going out there it was still fall. Of course, not much liquid water around. I was running that road with my backpack on, staying fit and shit. Cop rolls up, lights on, asks me how it's going. Asks me what the fuck I thought I was doing. Tells me to get in. Takes me on out to the base but all the way is telling me how dangerous it was for me to be walking, let alone running, along that road. Then, when he gets us to the building, he walks in with me with a 3 ring binder. He starts flipping through pages and pages of bear pictures. I never walked that road again. Once in a while, maybe once a month or so, the cops would tail a bear through town. They would be on loudspeaker and shortwave telling everyone to not go outside, get your dogs in, etc. Fairly often use a flash-bang to keep them moving along and not like being in town.If a dead walrus washed up, there would be dozens of bears feasting.
No fucking way I'd feel good with a 223
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Yes, some very big and robust teddy bears existed on planet earth in the past:
https://www.outdoorhub.com/stories/2015/11/02/five-prehistoric-bear-species-mop-floor-modern-bears.
I think .223 would just make them more mad.
https://www.outdoorhub.com/stories/2015/11/02/five-prehistoric-bear-species-mop-floor-modern-bears.
I think .223 would just make them more mad.
I have a 454c but with that thing you have to make the first shot count. Where I’m at bears come down to use the facilities frequently. But they’re not polar bear sized bears. I looked into some of the +P+ 147gr hardcast 9mm stuff. But then I read about that new 115gr TC FMJ military issue. Holy shit that thing penetrated 54” of ballistic gelatin. And it’s cheap. So if I’m going for the head might as well use that. But I’d like to try it through heavy bone. The shoulder blade idea sounds the most doable. Just have to find a butcher around here who won’t report me to the man.
Man, if I walked in on a bear taking a dump on a toilet; with his little bear spectacles perched over his nose as he finished up the Sunday Comics, I think I’d just back out and let him finish up in peace.
I have a Taurus Raging Bull 454 Casual. I really do like how it's ported out the top of the muzzle, the shape of the grip...it recoils straight back and sort of muzzle down. Real easy to get back on the target. No way you are staying on the target but it's easy to back for shot number 2. I carried the 300 gn solids in it most of the time. No idea what it does in ballistic gel. Never fired it at a bear either but I had it pointed a few times. It probably really didn't do much more than give me some false bravado. They would just eat a braver version of me.
Any of you know the story of Bella Twin? Anatomy knowledge of your target will/can trump cambering. One of the reasons these days we need more gun than long ago, is lack of knowing your quarry,... and trying to buy in.
If you really want to learn something, research W.D.M. Bell aka Karamojo Bell. (His wife was his equal in many things as well)
damn auto correct
If you really want to learn something, research W.D.M. Bell aka Karamojo Bell. (His wife was his equal in many things as well)
damn auto correct
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I went to high school in Anchorage, I know way more than I want about bears. Thank goodness the only polar bear I ever saw was in the airport. It's staggering to watch people go towards them in hopes of a picture, as long as they do I don't have to run! A momma moose with a calf ain't no joke either...
The right wildlife encounter can be very humbling.
Fucking hilarious!! Poor bear.
There are documented specimens of cross breed Polar/Griz. Fuck! Imagine that beast! He’s likely larger than the average Griz and willing to swim with ice bergs to get food AND hunt the tundra.
One of the two times I got charged down by a big brown bear the guy next to me shot it in the face with a 454C when it was at a dead sprint at us and it hit the ground 5ft in front of me. If I go back in bear country for work ever again I’m buying a 454C but whatever you get you better have that first shot down or else your toast.
I have in my possession the skull of a California black bear who ate up a 30-06 to the skull from my uncle's M70. It wasn't a huge bear, but he claims it was very aggressive. My uncle was rifle hunting deer at the time. The projectile hit the bear right in the forehead, gouged the bone and split the skin, but the bear kept coming. He ultimately killed it with a frontal shot into the vitals from the same -06. My uncle was a good guy, and I mostly believe his story. Regardless of how he came to shoot the bear, it soaked up the hit and would have survived that first shot.
I'd rather not shoot any bear with a handgun, I would not feel too bad with a Ruger Alaskan in 454c like I used to have, but I'd much prefer a 12ga and some Brenneke bear slugs.
I'd rather not shoot any bear with a handgun, I would not feel too bad with a Ruger Alaskan in 454c like I used to have, but I'd much prefer a 12ga and some Brenneke bear slugs.
You’re not kidding. My first flying job was based in Barrow, have seen numerous polar bears wondering around. Unnerving seeing one from the air, so pissed off he’s trying to swat the bird out of the air. I remember whenever one had been prowling around town, having to stick your head out the door to check if the coast was clear, just to run to the van for a trip to the AC store. Always had a flashlight on me to spot the eyes in that endless darkness.
A lot of bear head is not skull, an eye shot from front on will not hit the brain, best bet would be nasal (good luck hitting that) as a quick looks puts skull thickness at something like 2 inches for a big bear.
Big pig centered between the eyes but low might be close.
Big pig centered between the eyes but low might be close.
Sounds like an incident involving small impact angle + soft point pill. Tough skinned/boned animals are tough
I fully agree, but I think handgun projectiles are just as susceptible to the same issue.
