Howa 1500 budget build stock questions

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Calfed

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Dec 3, 2009
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#1
I just bought a Howa 24" bull barrel 6.5 Creedmoor barreled action and am looking for a decent stock to complete my budget build. Would like to get started in precision tactical shooting.

So far, I'm looking at two Bell and Carlson stocks...

https://www.bellandcarlson.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=1120

or

https://www.bellandcarlson.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=1080

I'm also looking at a KRG Bravo chassis.

Most Comfortable Chassis, Bravo Chassis | Kinetic Research Group

The non-adjusting B&C varmint/tactical would be the budget friendly move at $271, with the adjustable cheekpiece model being the step up move at $395.

Neither of these, of course, have the detachable magazine option.

The KRG, at $439, would bang the budget, but has both the adjustable cheekpiece and the detachable magazine.

How important is the detachable magazine to get started in precision tactical shooting?

I'm unfamiliar with KRG. Anyone have any opinions on whether they make good stuff.

Anyone have any other suggested stocks for a "budget friendly" rifle?
 
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#2
Detachable mags are a must. 10000%. No reason not to get one to save $150. That's a box of ammo.

In the last 6 months I bet more people bought Bravos than any other stock

Light weight. Adjustable. Modular. Cheap. Chassis but ergo more of a Manners/McMillan stock
 
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#3
As has been mentioned, an AICS-pattern detachable magazine system is a requirement.

Bell & Carlson stocks are OK, of the two you mention only the one with the adjustable comb is worth considering. HOWEVER, you will spend more for it and a detachable magazine system than you would for a KRG Bravo AND still not have all the modular features of a KRG chassis.

Go straight to the KRG Bravo. All KRG products are of outstanding quality and it will be money more than well spent.
 
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#5
I run B&C’s on 3 of my Howa’s. 2 have the CDI bottom metal which I had them inlet. The third the .223 I run the factory bottom plastic with the 10rd mag. Also have the factory 10rd mags for the 6.5. I haven’t had any failures with the factory mags but to me the springs feel awful weak. Maybe they’ve fixed this in the last two years. Also PT&G offer a bottom metal that requires no inletting to accept an Aics mag. I HAVE NOT tried it. I’ve heard PT&G is hit or miss. I have only ordered one thing from them in my lifetime and it worked out. I’m also sending you a pm.
 
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#6
mheimer_45 said:
I run B&C’s on 3 of my Howa’s. 2 have the CDI bottom metal which I had them inlet. The third the .223 I run the factory bottom plastic with the 10rd mag. Also have the factory 10rd mags for the 6.5. I haven’t had any failures with the factory mags but to me the springs feel awful weak. Maybe they’ve fixed this in the last two years. Also PT&G offer a bottom metal that requires no inletting to accept an Aics mag. I HAVE NOT tried it. I’ve heard PT&G is hit or miss. I have only ordered one thing from them in my lifetime and it worked out. I’m also sending you a pm.
Click to expand...

Does the factory detachable magazine bottom plastic fit in the BC Stock without inletting?
 
#7
I really like my Bravo for my Howa. It was incredibly comfortable, and I agree that having it works with AICS mags is a must in my book. It's a little stiff with the PMAG AICS mags, I haven't given any metal mags a try yet.
 
#8
I'm here to tell you that PTG's so-called drop-in bottom metal is not. One of my 1500s used to be in a Manners MCS-T inletted for the factory floorplate/trigger guard (by Manners, no less).

A few years later I bought a PTG bottom metal and it would not go in at all. I got tired of trying to trouble shoot why, and I got tired of the poor ergonomics of that stock, so I said fuck it and bought a KRG 180-Xray.
 
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#11
I've used PTG Stealth DBM in several of the B&C #2093 stocks (shape is a lot like a McM A5, but w/o butthook). Inlet work to get the PTG DBM to fit these stocks takes about 5 min with a Dremel - very simple to do, hard to screw it up. However, the Howa action requires machining in the bottom rear of the mag well for the AICS mags to fit. Not hard to do - if you've got a vertical mill. Done correctly, the mill cut leaves a small shelf that catches the rear of the AICS mag & prevents it from being pushed up so far as to rub on the bottom of the bolt. I'd assume you'd need to have the Howa action machined as per above to get it to work with AICS mags in the KRG Bravo chassis. Otherwise, I've had excellent results with the B&C #2093 stocks...
 
#12
One of my rifles in 308 has allways been in a B&C medalist stock, the one you linked that has the wide flat fore end. I believe they call it the style 2, it is a very solid well built stock but is really geared more for bench and varmint shooting and I don't think you would like for PRS type shooting. I went with CDI bottom metal since they will do the inlet for free and it has been flawless.

The Adjustable B&C with a good bottom metal would be a solid stock but as others have stated you would not have as many options as with the Bravo.

If you prefer the shape and feel of a more conventional stock over a chassis I wouldn't rule out looking at the Grayboe Renegade either.
 
#12
flatland1 said:
I've used PTG Stealth DBM in several of the B&C #2093 stocks (shape is a lot like a McM A5, but w/o butthook). Inlet work to get the PTG DBM to fit these stocks takes about 5 min with a Dremel - very simple to do, hard to screw it up. However, the Howa action requires machining in the bottom rear of the mag well for the AICS mags to fit. Not hard to do - if you've got a vertical mill. Done correctly, the mill cut leaves a small shelf that catches the rear of the AICS mag & prevents it from being pushed up so far as to rub on the bottom of the bolt. I'd assume you'd need to have the Howa action machined as per above to get it to work with AICS mags in the KRG Bravo chassis. Otherwise, I've had excellent results with the B&C #2093 stocks...
Click to expand...

I can assure you that the Howa 1500 short action does not need to have that tab at the rear of the mag opening machined away for AICS magazines to work in a KRG 180-Xray. That goes for both 308 and 223 AICS magazines, and that is another strike against Bell & Carlson.

I do not have a Bravo, but I'm willing to bet Howa actions won't need to be machined to work with AICS mags in them either.
 
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#14
Calfed said:
Does the factory detachable magazine bottom plastic fit in the BC Stock without inletting?
Click to expand...
Yes, no inletting required.
I bought one for my rem 700 as it was intended as a budget range rifle.
It works well, but if you intend to shoot prs style matches, you'll need something a bit more robust.
The polymer mag well is rather thin and likely won't take kindly to being run up against a barricade.
It is, however, an attractive option to get you into the game and maybe run it for a bit.
The problem is this, you will have invested nearly as much money into the stock and Howa plastic mag system with one then you would if you just bought a KRG Bravo without a magazine.

If you are on a very tight budget, consider the Boyd's AT-One stock:
https://www.boydsgunstocks.com/at-one
Do a home bedding job and use the Howa drop in dbm.

Call CDI and see if they can inlet the At-One for future reference, as you will want to eventually upgrade.
 
#15
308pirate said:
I can assure you that the Howa 1500 short action does not need to have that tab at the rear of the mag opening machined away for AICS magazines to work in a KRG 180-Xray. That goes for both 308 and 223 AICS magazines, and that is another strike against Bell & Carlson.

I do not have a Bravo, but I'm willing to bet Howa actions won't need to be machined to work with AICS mags in them either.
Click to expand...

It would be interesting to see how KRG gets around the need for the mill cuts on the Howa mag well. It's not just the B&C #2093 stock/PTG DBM that requires this cut - I've done several Howa customs in McMillan A5 stocks - also with PTG Stealth DBM - and they require the cut.
 
#16
flatland1 said:
It would be interesting to see how KRG gets around the need for the mill cuts on the Howa mag well. It's not just the B&C #2093 stock/PTG DBM that requires this cut - I've done several Howa customs in McMillan A5 stocks - also with PTG Stealth DBM - and they require the cut.
Click to expand...

Beats me, but they did it. I have two (308 & 223) sitting in KRG 180s and I did not need to do anything but screw them in, load a mag, and go shoot.
 
#17
I can confirm that the KRG Bravo is good to go with the Howa short action without modifying anything.

It was as simple as ordering a barrelled action from Brownells, and the Bravo from KRG. Place the action in the stock, and tighten 3 bolts to the provided torque values.

I've only played with Magpul mags, but they fit as expected.

Bob S.
 
#18
Thanks, guys.


Messer said:
I can confirm that the KRG Bravo is good to go with the Howa short action without modifying anything.

It was as simple as ordering a barrelled action from Brownells, and the Bravo from KRG. Place the action in the stock, and tighten 3 bolts to the provided torque values.

I've only played with Magpul mags, but they fit as expected.

Bob S.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Bob...my FFL advised that my Howa barreled actions have arrived. I grabbed a 6.5 CM and a .308, both #6 heavy barrel contours. I couldn't pass up the .308, even though I already have a few...it was only $250. Figured it would make a nice gift for one of my sons.
 
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#19
I can understand that - I am still wrestling with buying one of the 20" fluted barrel 308's and having it threaded. Still playing with that option. :unsure:

I just ordered the scope for the 6.5 - went with the Burris XTR II 5-25X50 (as a NRA Instructor, the discount was too good to pass on)

Enjoy,
Bob S.
 
#20
flatland1 said:
I've used PTG Stealth DBM in several of the B&C #2093 stocks (shape is a lot like a McM A5, but w/o butthook). Inlet work to get the PTG DBM to fit these stocks takes about 5 min with a Dremel - very simple to do, hard to screw it up. However, the Howa action requires machining in the bottom rear of the mag well for the AICS mags to fit. Not hard to do - if you've got a vertical mill. Done correctly, the mill cut leaves a small shelf that catches the rear of the AICS mag & prevents it from being pushed up so far as to rub on the bottom of the bolt. I'd assume you'd need to have the Howa action machined as per above to get it to work with AICS mags in the KRG Bravo chassis. Otherwise, I've had excellent results with the B&C #2093 stocks...
Click to expand...

None of my Howa’s have been machined one the bottom side. Directions said to do it but they work just fine without it. And I switch all my actions between stocks just for a little different feel.
 
#21
I ultimately went with the KRG. Shown here with a Talley scope mount.

DnuQbtn.jpg


6S6a58m.jpg


Also have a pair of 30MM Seekins rings for it.
 

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#22
I know that the OP has made a decision, but I wanted to throw in my $.02 regarding the "necessity" of removable magazines... I can see the usefulness of them for tactical and competition rifles, but in all honesty, I can see them being unnecessary (and perhaps even a pain in the ass) on a hunting-oriented rig (especially the single stack AICS mags).

There's nothing at all wrong with a BDL-style hinged floorplate setup in a gun intended to be light weight and which may need to be shot with odd body positioning.
 
#23
BurnOut said:
I know that the OP has made a decision, but I wanted to throw in my $.02 regarding the "necessity" of removable magazines... I can see the usefulness of them for tactical and competition rifles, but in all honesty, I can see them being unnecessary (and perhaps even a pain in the ass) on a hunting-oriented rig (especially the single stack AICS mags).

There's nothing at all wrong with a BDL-style hinged floorplate setup in a gun intended to be light weight and which may need to be shot with odd body positioning.
Click to expand...
Detachable magazines have nothing but upsides in hunting rifles. If you've ever used both you wouldn't even question it.

Detachable mags make it easier to unload and show clear, easier to manage ammunition, and easier to recharge the rifle. They add no perceptible weight to the rifle, and they sure as hell are usable when shooting with "odd body positioning" as that is what PRS shooters do pretty much every single stage.
 
#24
308pirate said:
Detachable magazines have nothing but upsides in hunting rifles. If you've ever used both you wouldn't even question it.

Detachable mags make it easier to unload and show clear, easier to manage ammunition, and easier to recharge the rifle. They add no perceptible weight to the rifle, and they sure as hell are usable when shooting with "odd body positioning" as that is what PRS shooters do pretty much every single stage.
Click to expand...
I *have* used both, and stand by my statement. Mag releases get bumped or can snag on clothing, etc..., mags can be improperly seated, and the fewer things protruding from the bottom of the rifle, the more options the shooter has in regard to hand positions.

The long and short of it is that either system can work, but to claim that removable mags are a necessity or offer no downsides is more than a slight stretch.
 
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#25
I have used both also in hunting situations. And to say my AICS mag rattle like a bitch in my bottom metal is an understatement. Every step is a rattle rattle rattle. And I can agree on the less snags/protrusions the better. When hunting slim and low key is the winner
 
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#26
Also when hunting has an animal ever asked if your rifle was clear? Sure the game warden has talked to me a few times but just told me to have my bolt open. And if you can’t hit the damn animal in three shots or less you have no business hunting.
 
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#27
mheimer_45 said:
And to say my AICS mag rattle like a bitch in my bottom metal is an understatement.
Click to expand...
AICS is not the only answer to the detachable magazine question in a hunting rifle. But if that's all you know...…….

mheimer_45 said:
Also when hunting has an animal ever asked if your rifle was clear?
Click to expand...
What an unbelievably stupid argument

mheimer_45 said:
And if you can’t hit the damn animal in three shots or less you have no business hunting.
Click to expand...
I don't give a single fuck about your opinion of who has or doesn't have any business hunting.
 
#28
mheimer_45 said:
I have used both also in hunting situations. And to say my AICS mag rattle like a bitch in my bottom metal is an understatement. Every step is a rattle rattle rattle. And I can agree on the less snags/protrusions the better. When hunting slim and low key is the winner
Click to expand...

The fit of the magazine and any rattles I've found is more prevalent on certain designs, such as the CDI M5 flush bottom metal I have has a looser fit and is faster and easier to load but does have a little rattle.
The M5 pattern MPA bottom metal I recently bought from Redhawk Rifles has the protrusion, front and back like the PTG stealth and is a closer fit with no perceived rattles that I can tell with my AI or Alpha 10 round magazines.
Either way I personally have never had a situation when hunting that any game was spooked due to the rattle on the CDI bottom metal, even at ranges as close as 30 yards on hogs and whitetail.
 
#29
308pirate said:
AICS is not the only answer to the detachable magazine question in a hunting rifle. But if that's all you know...…….

Then tell me more about these bottom metals that aren’t more expensive then the rifle itself.

What an unbelievably stupid argument.

I believe that was your first point you made about hunting with one.

I don't give a single fuck about your opinion of who has or doesn't have any business hunting.

And I’ve noticed. You seem to think everybody else’s opinion is wrong and yours is always right.
Click to expand...
 
#30
My experience with Bell and Carlson Tactical Medalist Style 2 (#2092) was anything but a good fit. I installed a Howa 223 barreled action in a heavy varmint barrel, and it dropped right in. Screw holes were slightly off, but I could get the screws in. Not impressed, but things got worse. I suppose I could have gone shooting this way, as it did "fit". Closer inspection and testing revealed that the recoil lug was at least a good 1/8" away from the aluminum mating surface in the stock. It would not seat because the action rear tang was hard up against the stock inlet (Howa tang sits in stock, not on top). The rear tang was acting as the recoil lug. I had the thing bedded to fix this mess. I don't know all that was done, but the bolt handle still fits correctly in the stock. I did try installing the Howa detachable mag system, but the inlet on the stock does not fit that well. More work needed. Honestly, if I order the KRG Bravo for my Howa 6.5 x 47, I may order another for the Howa 223 and dump the B&C.

Phil
 
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