Sidearms & Scatterguns Hunting carry Sidearm

[powdahound76]

Magnetic
What ammo you running in that?
I need to order some quality hard casts from Montana Bullet Works and drum up a 250 gr hard-cast load.
Im currently running Underwood 200gr Extreme Penetrators. Reported to have 30” of penetration.
But we all over-estimate how deep we can penetrate......

 

[Magnetic]

Magnetic
What ammo you running in that?
I need to order some quality hard casts from Montana Bullet Works and drum up a 250 gr hard-cast load.
Im currently running Underwood 200gr Extreme Penetrators. Reported to have 30” of penetration.
But we all over-estimate how deep we can penetrate......

I load my own 230 grain XTPs, but I am loaded to defend against large hogs. If I were in bear country, I would just buy these.

 

[big_matt_duq]

I have thought about the fn before. Maybe some day...

 

[powdahound76]

I load 230 gr XTP over 12.2 gr of Power Pistol for practice. My buddy thinks thr dentist pays me to have other guys shoot it, says it is the cavity loosener.....

My plan is to load similar hardcasts to the ones you linked. Might be a tad cheaper......

 

[TanktheFrank]

Usually a glock 19 or xds 4.0 45. I dont have bears in my AO, and its really only there for 2-legged varmints and the off chance I have an angry pig with no rifle in my hands.
I am looking to step my game up and get a g19 or g40.

 

[Temper]

Glock 10mm

This is the only correct answer.

 

[david walter]

This is the only correct answer.

This.

There's a similar thread over on the 'fire.
It seems lost on some people that only hits count.

 

[powdahound76]

So you are saying someone can only hit with a 10mm?

 

[nick338]

No what I think he is saying is the choice that gives you the most probability of accurate hits and enough penetration with hard cast bullets is the 10mm. Due to the physics involved, you simply cannot put enough rds on target fast enough or accurate enough with a big bore revolver. There is a big difference between hunting with a big bore revolver and being able to take your time and place your shot vs trying to control the recoil enough to hit something that wants to tear you to pieces. Most of these situations that people will run into will allow 3-4 seconds for you to pull your weapon and get off as many rds as possible until its game over.

I've owned them all and sold every one except the 10mm. Been shooting a Glock 20 for 11 years. Fits my hand like a glove, goes bang every time and I can put all rds on target without hesitation. I don't understand why anyone discredits the penetration capabilities of 10mm hard cast bullets. I have shot them into wood logs and they stay together. I have shot them into 36" of ballistic gelatin and couldn't catch them. What more do you need?

I suggest whatever you chose, go out and practice drawing the weapon and shooting like your life depended on it over and over.

 

[Rthur]

Thanks for the help fellas, when I get my carry figured out I'll check back in for an update.

R

 

[big_matt_duq]

if they made a fnx in 10mm I would have to try one. Has anyone heard anything about the xd 10mm guns?

 

[david walter]

Nick338 nailed it.

 

[powdahound76]

I got ya Nick.

I couldn't agree more. The platform I am running allows a ton of practice for muscle memory (and has very similar trigger and same controls as my CCW pistol, love me a Glock) and can reload full power practice ammo pretty darn cheap to do a lot of that too.

Rthur, apologies for derailing your thread (not really not at all, it is the Hide....). Looking forward to what you get and hearing reports. IF you go 10mm, I have had great luck with starline brass.
Dangit, now I want to build a Glock 10mm too...........

 

[big_matt_duq]

Now this thread has me eyeballing a TRP with a RMR. If I only wasn't building a rifle...

 

[Prebanpaul]

So I will way in on this. I have had my 329pd and 327pd (44mag- 357 mag) and I own a glock 19.17, and 40. So I take carrying in the woods is alot like carrying on the street. You have to have something that your comfortable with, and you have to have something you will actually carry. So many people pick a gun and then never carry it because of weight. So I agree that the 327pd is the most violent gun I have shot with recoil. I have shot 500 smith and just about every caliber there is in a handgun. That being said, its like when someone goes from a 9mm to 10mm or 45 acp, if you shoot it enough you get use to it. I can rapid fire a 327pd into a pie plate at about 10 yards pretty damn effectivley. I also know that it is a gun that I would carry every where I go in the woods. I am not going to carry anything that I am not comfortable with only six shots. If I need 15 I probably will never get them all out, or I wont do it accuratley. While I love glocks, the 10mm is twice as much weight, and not as much power. If you serious about you life and you go into the woods with big bears, carry what you will actually carry and then practice practice practice. I am cofortable with my 327pd. If your comfortable with a 10mm carry it and make sure you practice with it. GOD SPEED to all of you.

 

[nick338]

So I will way in on this. I have had my 329pd and 327pd (44mag- 357 mag) and I own a glock 19.17, and 40. So I take carrying in the woods is alot like carrying on the street. You have to have something that your comfortable with, and you have to have something you will actually carry. So many people pick a gun and then never carry it because of weight. So I agree that the 327pd is the most violent gun I have shot with recoil. I have shot 500 smith and just about every caliber there is in a handgun. That being said, its like when someone goes from a 9mm to 10mm or 45 acp, if you shoot it enough you get use to it. I can rapid fire a 327pd into a pie plate at about 10 yards pretty damn effectivley. I also know that it is a gun that I would carry every where I go in the woods. I am not going to carry anything that I am not comfortable with only six shots. If I need 15 I probably will never get them all out, or I wont do it accuratley. While I love glocks, the 10mm is twice as much weight, and not as much power. If you serious about you life and you go into the woods with big bears, carry what you will actually carry and then practice practice practice. I am cofortable with my 327pd. If your comfortable with a 10mm carry it and make sure you practice with it. GOD SPEED to all of you.

I just want to touch on a couple of points from this. I agree with most everything you have stated with the exception of "power". The term power should be used with caution anytime handguns are involved but I believe even more so when talking about hard cast bullets. You mentioned your 327pd as being lighter and more powerful than a 10mm. I owned one as well as the 329 you mentioned and their light weight is definitely an advantage in handling but I will say this, they sting your hand like hell and even more so when it's cold.

In terms of muzzle energy, which is what most people think of as power, the difference between a .357 and 10mm is splitting hairs. I would not say the .357 has any advantage here with the exception of slightly more penetration depending on the bullet used due to less surface area.

For big bears you need hard cast bullets, no question about it. Hollow point bullets from a hand gun generally do not penetrate enough or transfer enough energy to do the job like a rifle. This is why hard cast is necessary. They don't expand and will break bone or pierce the skull and do the job. In this role I see very little difference in calibers .

 

[Rthur]

In this discussion I should have clarified ammo choice.
All considerations/calibers would be with hard cast ammo designed for penetration.
Many great points and experiences have been shared.

R

 

[BJames]

Glock 20sf and whatever variation of heavy hard cast bullet. I use buffalo bore, besides shot placement — penetration is key. Beware, they’re accurate enough, but lead pretty badly in the factory barrel after a few mags. Honestly, I haven’t tested this combo on anything alive, but did observe complete pass through on a moose skull from 25 yards.

I spend a lot of time in and around these amazing animals in some of the highest brown bear density areas of Alaska. Just to give some context, I am by no means, an expert. There’s a lot of people with vastly more experience than myself.

These big bears take a long time to die and a handgun is a compromise anyways. Anymore these days, I forgo the extra weight of a sidearm when I have a rifle or shotgun with slugs, but to each they’re own. I make it a point to never be more than 3 feet from the long gun. At the same time, when a long gun is more in the way (fishing) my glock is on my chest at all times. In the end, you don’t have to kill the thing in 1 shot, only stop the charge. In my experience (not a lot but a couple) charges can be stopped fairly easily once you start poking holes in it, maybe I haven’t come across a really determined bear yet.

 

[david walter]

I used to run into a old guy hunting in the back country of Alaska who had a 308 with a 220 partition in the pipe as the first round, and more in the magazine.

He said it "Shots like a 160 grain RN in a 6.5 Swede, but it's bigger! It's overkill for moose, but never underkill for anything, including bears."

Those old sourdoughs knew a thing or two about making do with what the had.

 

[myronman3]

the old internet bear rears his head yet again.

as many have stated, the 10mm glock is a good choice, lots of power, plenty of capcity, and very importantly....many different ways to carry it comfortably. this was my choice for many years.

my choice for carrying is a 44. i am a huge smith fan, but one thing you want to consider is recoil on a 329....it is going to be brutal. my carry gun is a 357 smith 360, and the little bastard kills on both ends. NOT something you want to shoot more than a cylinder full of.

and while i joke about the dreaded internet bear; i have been nose to nose with a BIG black bear while bird hunting. i had a doublebarrel 28 gauge and i can tell you that in the moment, power is quite comforting. in that particular moment, i would have prefered a 12gauge.

i carry a short barreled ruger blackhawk 44. i also have a freedom arms, but it is super tight and i would be very careful putting myself in a tight spot with it. my #1 suggestion is a ruger blackhawk. they make some great configurations and they are easy to carry. my buddy is a bigger guy, and he just slips his in his back pocket. i carry mine in a holster, easy enough to do and lots of options. as far as double action, that aint for me. if it comes to that, i am fuct anyway.

the only guns i would consider would be a glock 10mm, a ruger redhawk, the smith and wesson, and the blackhawk....which i see as the toughest, easiest to carry, probably the cheapest, easiest to use option. calibers i would consider....lightest is the 10mm...other than that, the 41 mag or the 44’s. if you handload, the 45 colt. i DONOT recommend the 454’s and such as the recoil on them makes it hard for the average guy to hit anything. i shoot handguns a lot, and struggle with those. 41, 44’s, and a properly loaded 45 colt will do what needs doing.

good luck with your choice, hth.

 

[jmb1911]

As it goes, living in AZ, I generally carry a G34 with an Alpha Wolf threaded barrel with Double Tap 147gr +p rounds and 19 round mags (1 spare).

Sometimes I carry a G19x with Atomic 124gr bonded +p and a spare mag.

When I'm in country where I need more FPS (UT, CO, ID), I carry a G21 w/ a Lonewolf threaded barrel, loaded with Double Tap 255 gr hardcast .450 SMC (1 extra mag). 1155 FPS out of my gun, 750ish ft. lbs. and not a terrible amount of recoil.

I've needed to use my sidearm during hunting excursions several times and with the sidearms above I've been sufficiently armed.

Anyhow, the short answer is you must plan what you're most worried about encountering and plan for a sidearm that will most sufficiently match.

+++EDIT+++

Your most vulnerable time to be a hunter in the back country, by in large, is at night. All pistols above have high powered lights and I take extra batteries. I commonly see hunters with sidearms sans weapon lights. Not if you hunt with me!

 

[spaniel]

I own them all. 329PD, Taurus TI 41Mag, 10mms in multiple flavors. The 10mm is my favorite handgun round.

I do hunt in grizz country and I carry the 329PD and loan the Taurus to whomever is hunting with me. If you're not proficient with the gun that is a training problem, not a deficiency of the firearm. Address it. Make sure you have the 500SW grip on the 329PD, I think it ships with it now but it didn't used to and every other option left an exposed backstrap and hurt like hell. With the 500SW grip I shoot full power Buffalo Bore loads. Yes it's stout but IMHO some of the reports here are over-stated. As for capacity I don't think in most bear charges you are getting 6 shots off before it's on you, and a semi presents risk when you are pressing flesh or in the fur. I'm not personally familiar with a bear engagement where lack of ammo became the problem though I don't discount it has happened. I have seen a couple reports of jams which resulted. For any other application I'm carrying a 10mm.

I've seen multiple hunts where backup guns stayed in the truck on Day 2 because of weight. 16 round capacity or 50 caliber rounds don't help if it's in the truck. A 329PD isn't even felt on the waist. The Taurus is actually much more comfortable to shoot even though not much less in power, but they are very hard to find and with the ports if you fire without ear protection expect to be deaf for a few minutes.

 

[thejeep]

I haven’t tried anything else but the kenai chest rig is pretty good. I didn’t take mine off except to sleep for 1.5 months last summer minus a week at the beach. G20 +trl1hl 200gr Underwood’s hard cast rode great even under a 70lb backpack( family backpacking guess who got to carry everything)

 

[W54/XM-388]

my #1 suggestion is a ruger blackhawk. they make some great configurations and they are easy to carry. my buddy is a bigger guy, and he just slips his in his back pocket. i carry mine in a holster, easy enough to do and lots of options. as far as double action, that aint for me. if it comes to that, i am fuct anyway.
.

I'd suggest that for bear defense get the super Redhawk instead. Being able to just pull the trigger when you are under huge amounts of stress rather than having to cock it each time may save your life.

They also now make a Redhawk in 10mm for those that like that round.

 

[SporterII]

I'd suggest that for bear defense get the super Redhawk instead. Being able to just pull the trigger when you are under huge amounts of stress rather than having to cock it each time may save your life.

They also now make a Redhawk in 10mm for those that like that round.

Ruger also now makes a light compact 10mm revolver. GP100 Match Champion.

 

[Strykervet]

Redhawk .44mag is what my dad chose for hunting boar. In AR they require you to carry a sidearm for hunting 'em (or used to anyway).

Personally, I'd probably just tote a G20 10mm Glock for that. It's a lot faster all around and almost as good as a 41mag. with certain loads.

For bear, 12ga. pump with slugs or Dixie balls. If you need a sidearm, carry two.

 

[Jackomason]

I've run into quite a few bears (brown and black) with no defence. Not my favorite situation but I'm alive haha. I'm comfortable with my hunting rifle in hand.

 

[david walter]

Why in God's name would you run a 10mm revolver costing 1.5 times as much as a 10mm Glock, and the Glock has 2+ times the capacity and is faster to refill?

YOU! OUTTA THE GENE POOL!

 

[SporterII]

Why in God's name would you run a 10mm revolver costing 1.5 times as much as a 10mm Glock, and the Glock has 2+ times the capacity and is faster to refill?

YOU! OUTTA THE GENE POOL!

Reliability, durability, preference.

 

[david walter]

Reliability, durability, preference.

I'd argue reliability is a wash, not sure how durable you need a sidearm to be, but I personally own a Glock 19 Gen3 with upwards of 10,000 rounds on it. High round-count Glocks are almost the norm. High round count revolvers? Not so much. The mechanics of a revolver lead to shooting it loose, and always will.

Stress fire is different than practice.

More and available ammo ready to deploy without having to reload is mo betta still.

If your preference is to have a limited amount of ammo available in a potentially life ending encounter, and to have to break the firearm to reload it while under stress, that's on you. Bear encounters are not like a competition. The stress is different when your life may end. I know this from first hand experience by being charged by bears, and from being shot at a number of times.

IMHO, police departments generally get little right in the way of firearm and firearm selection. However, the move to semiautomatic pistols and away from revolvers was absolutely correct.

 

[W54/XM-388]

The police like to respond with a hail of bullets to thin skinned humans that move slow & make nice standing targets.

I'm not sure you are going to get more than 7 or so rounds at a predator before they are chomping on you.

One thing you can do with revolvers that is much harder to do in Semi-auto is really hot load heavy long hard cast bullets which work nicely on thick skinned animals.

 

[powdahound76]

And you can press the muzzle against something biting your head and shoot.
That may fail with a Glock.

And I carry a Glock.

There is no perfect answer despite that everyone is convinced their way is the only way that could ever be right.

 

[david walter]

I don’t ever think my way is the only way.

But a revolver in 10mm for defensive purposes doesn’t make sense to me. I used to deer hunt with a S&W 610 in 10mm. I like revolvers.

But, I like the idea of sending lots of aimed fired hard cast bullets into the bear more than arguing for a device that’s better (supposedly) at contact distances.

 

[david walter]

For the “I’ll be fine with less ammo” crowd:

https://www.alloutdoor.com/2018/09/...ent=2018-09-15&utm_campaign=Weekly+Newsletter

 

[Fongman]

For the “I’ll be fine with less ammo” crowd:

https://www.alloutdoor.com/2018/09/...ent=2018-09-15&utm_campaign=Weekly+Newsletter

I carry a G20 because I can shoot it well. BUT in that story "Hornady Critical Duty" ammo = mistake.

 

[bobke]

Can’t comment from any bear encounters, as they’re rare in the TX Hill Country, and coming from a shooting background that is very skewed to heavy cast bullets in single and double action revolvers 41 cal through 475, though more recent shooting with 9/45 semi autos in steel and IDPA matches would lead me to say that even watching people who shoot fast, accurately and often, sometimes stumble through a ‘friendly’ environment stress situation and don’t execute a reload or clearing with absolute precision. Which would lead me to think that in a very unscripted bear encounter, absolute reliability and a mag stuffed full of the heaviest and hardest cast bullets would give me a bit of confidence-more so than reloading a large caliber single action, or even a dbl action with a speed loader at hand, under duress. Don’t own a Glock, but you’re making me think about it.

 

[david walter]

bobke,

You summarized my thoughts better than I did.

 

[264win]

There is plenty of differing opinions on this subject every time it comes up.
But a few important notes to consider from the above story,
There is a world of difference between 300lb black bear and 800lb Grizzly.
If the bear had been a Grizzly, he most likely would be dead and possibly some of the others from the group as well.
The instance where his Glock had a ftf could have easily cost his life also. His quick thinking and familiarity with his gun likely saved his life.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Had he hit the bear a couple times with a hard cast .44 mag +P+ type load it would have been a bit different.

 

[david walter]

So, we went from evaluating the weapon system on it's merits to evaluating it based on a random incident where the hair of the bear blocked the hammer from falling on the loaded revolver round?

OOPS! My bad. It was all about the semi-automatic and not about the bear's hair.

Copy. Well, not......

 

[bobke]

Would suggest a brief exercise to see how well any of us can deliver well directed fire at a 12” target, from whatever your choice of platform. Run 100 yds at 80-90% pace, leaving 40yds between you and target, unholster your weapon and move towards target, firing the capacity of weapon of choice till empty. Reload and do it again. If you have a timer or friend that can clock you from 40yds in, do so. How many shots on target? How long did it take you? How fast does a bear cover 40yds, when seriously pissed?

 

[W54/XM-388]

Reload and do it again. If you have a timer or friend that can clock you from 40yds in, do so. How many shots on target? How long did it take you? How fast does a bear cover 40yds, when seriously pissed?

If you are thinking 40 yards bear, then don't bother with reloading business, that's just mostly just gaming the test to help semi-autos win, and mostly important when dealing with a human threat, where a high volume of lower powered bullets works well (especially in groups).
If you are thinking about taking out a wolf pack or similar, then that might also have a place, but not if you are worried about Bears and big cats.

If a big bear charges you at 40 yards, you won't have time to reload your semi auto pistol, unless you happen to make it to some where he has to pause before grabbing you.

The main reason for wanting to choose a revolver is the ability to carry rounds that have vastly more energy than what most compact semi-auto platforms can handle, to provide fast movement for really heavy flat nosed bullets.

 

[bobke]

W54
I’ve shot a metric shit ton of heavy for caliber hard cast lead in calibers over 41, and I would agree that in an ideal scenario, they work. Have always felt that a 300gr WFN in a 44/45 at 1100fps or a 375gr 475 at 1000fps would be good medicine for most situations, but our only South Texas equivalent would be a 3-400lb hog. Doable with a head shot, but put one in the shoulder, and maybe not done yet. With perfect execution, no need to reload. Put yourself under heavy physical duress, and can you still deliver? Would rather depend on rifle first, handgun if have to. If in brush with limited visibility, 12ga slug or 45-70 Marlin.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I fully agree that a rifle or a shotgun is almost always a better go to for the most part for protection from animals if you can.
However you still want something in a sidearm just in case somehow you and the Rifle/Shotgun are separated for some reason, or you can't bring the rifle / shotgun to aim fast enough from your back etc.

I was specifically stating my large bore high power revolver preference assuming that you carrying it as a backup and if used defensively, you are using it because things have gone really wrong and you don't have a shotgun / rifle handy and you are down to what you had on your belt for a quick pull & hoping not to die. Also specifically if the threat is single large powerful predators.

Against an animal rushing towards me that is down low, I probably wouldn't rely on a head shot to do the trick. I'm most likely not going to be that good at least not without some time to aim.
If I get lucky, excellent, but considering often the head may be prone to move or I might not be at my most accurate, I'd have to hope that a neck / torso / shoulder hit would slow them down or stop the charge.

Now on the other hand if I'm hunting something rather than it hunting me, you can do some good hunting with a long barreled, scoped .44 magnum revolver in the 100 to 200 yard distance range.

 

[bobke]

Guess my point in comments and the shooting challenge is to be as proficient with your contingent weapon or two of choice, as you are with your primary. Requires some work and skills, especially in this scenario, and we best be able to deliver.

 

[nick338]

I would like to think that most here carry what they are comfortable with and can shoot well which is far more important than arguing about which firearm is the best. I know 100% I am far more proficient with my Glock 20 then I ever could be with a big bore revolver in anything heavier than 44. Hell, I've even considered an all steel S&W 629 shorty 44 mag because the recoil is manageable and it's very compact but the comfort of having 11 rds at my disposal is one of the reasons I will not change. Most with a Glock 20 will have 16rds. Again, I have yet to have anyone convince me that a 230 gr .40 cal hard cast bullet that will penetrate over 3 ft of bone and tissue is not enough to do the job.

As it has been said many times before, train with what you carry. This cannot be overstated enough. The guy that goes out and buys a .454 Casull or 500 S&W because it makes him feel invincible but never takes out of the safe will die, it's that's simple.

 

[W54/XM-388]

IThe guy that goes out and buys a .454 Casull or 500 S&W because it makes him feel invincible but never takes out of the safe will die, it's that's simple.

I think also part of it might be, can you put follow up shots on target quickly & easily.
Also can you use the gun with one hand with a less than perfect grip and still get off multiple shots
With the .500 S&W from everything I've seen in videos, you best hit them and kill them with the first shot because you aren't going to be able to get off another.

 

[bobke]

And same may go for a 329 with appropriate loads for task at hand. Might be a cool little gun with 260gr WFN at 850-900fps, however, and still nothing to sneeze at. Unfortunately, same circumstance applies to droves of people with carry permits that never shoot but once a year, if that. Dangerous on either end of the barrel.

 

[Spicerack]

Evening gentlemen,

I'm in WI where black bears are sort of rare, but reading through this thread I can't help but think of an AR pistol or SBR. It could be slung comfortably if bow hunting (or whatever hunting for that matter), it is a platform that many of us carried a lot and are quite comfortable running, and has 10-40 round capacity in many different chamberings available. I might choose a super sonic 300BLK here, or maybe one of the big bore choices like .458? I guess it would depend on how much extra weight you're willing to carry.... but it would solve mag capacity and 'power' if choosing big bore option.

Just spit-ballin...

Semper Fidelis,
Aaron

 

[W54/XM-388]

Evening gentlemen,

I'm in WI where black bears are sort of rare, but reading through this thread I can't help but think of an AR pistol or SBR. It could be slung comfortably if bow hunting (or whatever hunting for that matter), it is a platform that many of us carried a lot and are quite comfortable running, and has 10-40 round capacity in many different chamberings available. I might choose a super sonic 300BLK here, or maybe one of the big bore choices like .458? I guess it would depend on how much extra weight you're willing to carry.... but it would solve mag capacity and 'power' if choosing big bore option.
Just spit-ballin...
Semper Fidelis,
Aaron

An AR "Pistol" or "SBR" really doesn't go in the same hunting category as a defensive pistol / revolver that you carry on your hip.

You are not going to be strapping it on your side in a quick draw holster like a pistol, you will be carrying it like a rifle.

So basically it's yes if you can carry a rifle with you, you should. But possibly still bring a pistol.

You can do a standard AR15 at around the 5 pound mark and be fairly short with minimum stock length and 14.5" barrel with flash hider attached.
Most of the "AR Pistols" are not that much different in size / weight unless you go for something like the SIG MCX
https://www.sigsauer.com/store/sig-mcx-rattler-psb.html

But even then, at 5.5 pounds, I can get a complete full sized AR in that same weight, so you are just saving 7 inches length

The SBR or "AR Pistol" would more likely be the replacement for your primary rifle and would tend to be carried as such.