Sidearms & Scatterguns Hunting carry Sidearm

[david walter]

I was advocating for the Glock 20 because my primary weapon is a Glock 43, then a Glock 19, and running the G20 is no different. Hence, unlikely to be fumbling with the controls or adapting to the completely different hold when I should be shooting, and likely to be on my hip as opposed to in the safe because its too heavy, etc, etc....

Your mileage may vary.

 

[Spicerack]

An AR "Pistol" or "SBR" really doesn't go in the same hunting category as a defensive pistol / revolver that you carry on your hip.

You are not going to be strapping it on your side in a quick draw holster like a pistol, you will be carrying it like a rifle.

So basically it's yes if you can carry a rifle with you, you should. But possibly still bring a pistol.

You can do a standard AR15 at around the 5 pound mark and be fairly short with minimum stock length and 14.5" barrel with flash hider attached.
Most of the "AR Pistols" are not that much different in size / weight unless you go for something like the SIG MCX
https://www.sigsauer.com/store/sig-mcx-rattler-psb.html

But even then, at 5.5 pounds, I can get a complete full sized AR in that same weight, so you are just saving 7 inches length

The SBR or "AR Pistol" would more likely be the replacement for your primary rifle and would tend to be carried as such.

Yes, sir, I get all that. Just trying to think outside the box and suggest alternatives: "Just spit-ballin'" some food for thought. Figured a short barrel at 8" or less with collapsible stock might give a profile that could be acceptable to carry, be relatively quick to present given the right sling option and training, and have the 'power' and capacity to make up for all the compromises of a pistol. I guess I'm thinking more of a bow hunting scenario where the bow isn't going to give much of a fighting chance so it would be easily dropped and swapped for something with some more opportunity for survival. There's an argument for weight vs capacity here somewhere but I'll leave it here. Thanks for your thoughts though, they are valid and poignant, and I love this forum for such conversations. Have a great evening!

Semper Fidelis,
Aaron

 

[nick338]

I think also part of it might be, can you put follow up shots on target quickly & easily.
Also can you use the gun with one hand with a less than perfect grip and still get off multiple shots
With the .500 S&W from everything I've seen in videos, you best hit them and kill them with the first shot because you aren't going to be able to get off another.

Exactly why I'm a proponent of medium bore whether it's a semi or revolver. I could not train enough for accurate follow up shots with either the 454 or the 500 I had due to the brutal nature of the rounds. Certainly 1 well placed rd with either one would be sufficient to do the job if one was hunting and had time to carefully place a shot. Not so much in a life or death situation where your 2nd shot is 2 feet over the target and your 3rd (if you were lucky enough to get it off) is in the dirt as that freight train with teeth is bearing down on you. Take a look at the muzzle flip in slow motion and imagine trying to reacquire some sort of sight picture while your filling your underwear.

You can't defy physics. In this case follow shots are no less important than your first.

 

[spaniel]

For the “I’ll be fine with less ammo” crowd:

https://www.alloutdoor.com/2018/09/...ent=2018-09-15&utm_campaign=Weekly+Newsletter

Of COURSE you'll need more rounds if you pick the wrong ones for the job...and I note his choice of a semi led to a jam which could have cost him his life. Every choice has consequences.

 

[david walter]

No, his lack of familiarity with his weapon and his choice of bullets almost caused him to lose his life. The semiauto jamming part wouldn’t even be in play if he’d had the right attitude, the right ammo and knew how to run his stuff.

 

[nick338]

His first mistake was the choice of ammo he was carrying in bear country. His 2nd was retreating after causing the bear to focus on his wounds. Keep firing until the threat is eliminated or your out of bullets.

 

[powdahound76]

David Walter
I couldnt agree more.
I carry and shoot a G43 with a G19 at times. This is why I chose the Glock platform.
Now I may have to either get a G20 or a slide and barrel for my frame....... more than plenty for CO bears (I think) and faster due to no compensator like my .460 Rowland.

I can draw, shoot, and run any malfunctions from muscle memory on the Glock platform.

 

[perttime]

Exactly why I'm a proponent of medium bore whether it's a semi or revolver. I could not train enough for accurate follow up shots with either the 454 or the 500 I had due to the brutal nature of the rounds. ...

You can use .45 Colt in 454 Casull or even 460 S&W.

 

[MK20]

Another vote for the S&W 69. Great gun. Shoots pretty mildly.

 

[nick338]

You can use .45 Colt in 454 Casull or even 460 S&W.

I had a 45 Colt...had all the big bores. If I could only carry a revolver I would trade all of them for a 44 and run 300 gr XTP's if I was exclusively in black bear country or 300 gr hard cast for anything bigger. Penetration is paramount. As bullet diameter goes up, the weight of the bullet must also go up to equal the penetration of the smaller diameter bullet and that means more recoil and less accurate follow up shots.

A Glock 20/44 mag is the best combination of everything that's important to me as a backup sidearm.

 

[rgrmike]

I have a Glock 20 with a SF X300. My ammo is Underwood 140gr Extreme Penetrator. It's rated at 1500fps with 700lbs of Energy. I have Hackathorn night sights on it I believe. They're on amazon, high visibility and cheap. I carry a Glock professionally so for me it makes a lot of sense. I like the magazine capacity, relatively light weight and the ability to mount a light. A few years ago I had a defense shoot on a Mountain Lion in the dark via headlamp.

I backpack 1-8 hours from the truck and I'm alone the majority of the time. I can hike and sweat my butt off and I don't worry about my pistol rusting, getting dirty etc. I carry it behind my bio harness so I have it every waking moment which is the important thing. I've seen a lot of guys run their holster on their backpack waist belt. That's all fine and good until you put your pack down.

I'm in Colorado so I'm more concerned with cats, black bears and other people. If I was in grizzly country my opinion might change.

 

[Lar135]

Where I'm at I'm not going to run into a bear, more likely to need a pistol to finish a wounded coyote or deer and/or for problems of the 2 legged sort. I usually carry a 9mm either a Ruger SR1911, G43, or CZ PCR. About the only problem animal I might run into would be a mountain lion while calling coyotes but I'd feel comfortable with any of the above pistols for that situation. If I was where there were bears I might re-evaluate what I was carrying.

 

[NorthWesterner]

I carry a Glock 20 (10mm) with hard cast bullets in bear country. If you carry anything less than 44/357mag I think hard cast bullets are a must. I prefer the Glock for the weight and capacity over a revolver.

 

[jljr23]

Glock 19 for eastern hunting.

 

[DaleGribble82]

Treat yourself to a Smith & Wesson Performance Center 629 Pro Hunter lol you’ll love it, but it is definitely not lightweight.

 

[Novak77]

My wife and I rock S&W 686's w/ Buffalo Bore hard cast .357s, however we're more concerned with mountain lions, coyotes and two legged critters where we hunt.

 

[flyright]

Glock 20 - accurate, lightish weight, super low maintenance, hi cap and lots of power. Maybe not in Grizzly country, though.

 

[nick338]

It's more than capable in grizzly country if loaded properly.

Alaskan Hiker Stops Charging Brown Bear with 10mm Handgun
BY DEAN WEINGARTEN |
AUG 07, 2016 |
145 COMMENTS

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The 10mm is increasingly popular as a wilderness defense gun in Alaska. Fully loaded it’s as light — and a bit more powerful than — a loaded, small frame .357 magnum. The GLOCK 20 holds 15 rounds versus five or six for a .44 or .41 magnum revolver. In this case near Homer, Alaska, on the Kenai peninsula, it did the job.

From homernews.com:

A Homer man shot and killed a charging sow brown bear at Humpy Creek last Friday. Kim Woodman, 57, shot the bear five times with a 10mm handgun before the bear fell about 6 feet from him. While backing away from the sow, Woodman fell and accidentally shot himself in the left foot . . .​

Park Ranger Jason Okuly and Alaska Department of Fish and Game biologist Jason Herreman went to the scene and found that the sow died from two gunshot wounds, one below the right eye and one in the chest.
Backing away from an attacking animal or person is natural and can be effective. But without eyes in the back of your head, falling down while backing away can be a serious danger. To clarify, consider this . . .
You’re backing away as an 800-lb bear is charging you at close range. You’re firing a 10mm handgun. You trip, but you stay focused on the threat, firing as you go down. As you press the trigger, your foot flies up into the line of fire as your back goes down to the ground — a case where over-penetration could work to your ultimate advantage.
It’s not uncommon for people in self defense situations to inadvertently wound themselves or others. The action is often fast and chaotic. The trick is to keep your eyes on the prize: survival.
©2016 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included. Gun Watch

 

[Hawken50]

I usually hunt with a 74 Sharps or a Winchester lever gun so an appropriate single action usually rides on my hip

 

[nick338]

I usually hunt with a 74 Sharps or a Winchester lever gun so an appropriate single action usually rides on my hip View attachment 6989322

Nice gun but it would never see my side in a situation where speed and accurate follow up shots may determine if I live or die.

 

[myronman3]

Each person is different, and people are going to choose different systems. Whatever works for you Is what you should carry.

Having been nose to nose with a big bear, i used to carry a 10mm. Now i carry a 44 special loaded hot. When you are staring them in the eye, in that moment (which fractions of a second seem like minutes) you’ll trade your left nut for horsepower. Too much will be counter productive, but as much as you can handle effectively is what you should carry.

Someone posted a picture on here of a griz with his glock aimed at the hulk of a bear....and in that picture you feel the spirit of what i mean by “in that moment..”.

the best answer is have a gun that is up to the task. Whichever that is, is an individual choice. What works for me might not get it for someone else. And in the situations i have seen (was in one less than a month ago with a large sow and 2 cubs) you usually see the situation coming....and have time to realize what is about to happen. In those moments....that’s when i like to get the rifle up and on them.

 

[nick338]

Each person is different, and people are going to choose different systems. Whatever works for you Is what you should carry.

Having been nose to nose with a big bear, i used to carry a 10mm. Now i carry a 44 special loaded hot. When you are staring them in the eye, in that moment (which fractions of a second seem like minutes) you’ll trade your left nut for horsepower. Too much will be counter productive, but as much as you can handle effectively is what you should carry.

Someone posted a picture on here of a griz with his glock aimed at the hulk of a bear....and in that picture you feel the spirit of what i mean by “in that moment..”.

the best answer is have a gun that is up to the task. Whichever that is, is an individual choice. What works for me might not get it for someone else. And in the situations i have seen (was in one less than a month ago with a large sow and 2 cubs) you usually see the situation coming....and have time to realize what is about to happen. In those moments....that’s when i like to get the rifle up and on them.

You are correct, everyone has their preference for what system works for them and I would venture to say when taking into consideration the speed at which everything happens and the limited amount of shots that most people would be able to take, the gap in the system narrows considerably in most cases. However, familiarity alone isn't convincing me enough that a SA revolver is a wise choice for the reasons I already stated. But this is why we have these discussions as information presented in a different way can be very useful.

I am curious though, other than a slight increase in diameter, what does a hot 44 Special have over the 10mm?

 

[lawofsavage]

Glock 19 MOS with Leupold Delta Point Pro for me but I do most of my hunting in AL, so I'm much more concerned with protection from poachers/trespassers/tweakers than Big Bears and Big Cats.

I also have a Glock 40 MOS with an RMR just in case I ever have to go to bear country but it only gets used at the range currently haha.

I've also have one of those 8 shot S&W 627 Performance Centers in 357 but I am just not nearly as fast or accurate with it as I am with the Glocks for some reason. The Glock 40 is surprisingly very soft shooting imo and I just prefer the way they handle. Damn, the revolvers do look sexy though, somehting I would never dream of saying about a glock haha.

 

[myronman3]

to the best of my knowlege, the biggest 10mm bullet you are going to find is a 220 grain, and i have problems finding anything over 200.

the 44 is putting out a 260 grain wfn hardcast at a verified 1150 fps 15 feet from the barrel. the added diameter, bullet profile (which i am not restricted by like with hte 10mm), and bullet weight give me more confidence.

so far in life, i have had several close encounters with bears, and i have never fired on one. and hopefully, i never will have to. if i have my way, i will never find out how my 44 stacks up against a bear. i like them a lot; not so much so that i want to be a sammich for them, but i dont want to ever have to kill one.

 

[Novak77]

I'd love to have a S&W 696 in .44 SPL, alas I live in California so they're a pain to obtain.

 

[nick338]

to the best of my knowlege, the biggest 10mm bullet you are going to find is a 220 grain, and i have problems finding anything over 200.

the 44 is putting out a 260 grain wfn hardcast at a verified 1150 fps 15 feet from the barrel. the added diameter, bullet profile (which i am not restricted by like with hte 10mm), and bullet weight give me more confidence.

so far in life, i have had several close encounters with bears, and i have never fired on one. and hopefully, i never will have to. if i have my way, i will never find out how my 44 stacks up against a bear. i like them a lot; not so much so that i want to be a sammich for them, but i dont want to ever have to kill one.

Double Tap makes a 230 wfn hardcast that I chrono'd 1175 out of my 5.25" KKM barrel.

Agree with you that having to use it is the last thing I ever want to do.

 

[myronman3]

i do not buy loaded ammo...i quit doing that about 20 years ago. so i will admit to being ignorant as to what is currently available from ammo makers.

that double tap ammo sounds like just the ticket. spicey for sure. i am a 10mm fan...but got rid of all my autoloaders...because i hate chasing brass. and with the 10mm...you DO chase them! i cast and load 10mm bullets...but i never ran them over a chrony to see what the actual fps was. someday maybe..my brother still has a 10.

 

[myronman3]

Regarding the 696...sweet gun but wouldnt stand up the the loads i run through mine. I have a ruger flattop blackhawk and a freedom arms 97 i run them in. Ruger is also making the gp100 in the 44 special now which i have been considering. I am sure you could push the gp100 44 every bit as hard as you could with the blackhawk.

 

[nick338]

i do not buy loaded ammo...i quit doing that about 20 years ago. so i will admit to being ignorant as to what is currently available from ammo makers.

that double tap ammo sounds like just the ticket. spicey for sure. i am a 10mm fan...but got rid of all my autoloaders...because i hate chasing brass. and with the 10mm...you DO chase them! i cast and load 10mm bullets...but i never ran them over a chrony to see what the actual fps was. someday maybe..my brother still has a 10.

Yeah brass from my loads and a 24lb spring are usually in the next zip code. I have reached 1425 fps with a 200 gr xtp with that KKM barrel and it penetrated a 20" gel block and still expanded to .65". Good enough for the woods in NY. I think anyway. Heard this was close to 700lbs.

 

[Hawken50]

Nice gun but it would never see my side in a situation where speed and accurate follow up shots may determine if I live or die.

Nick338...i am more than comfortable with this SAA,, Its shooting 45 Colt 250 grain at 950 fps..I am faster out of the holster with it then anything else. Where i live out in the country its low crime and the biggest thing i would face is black bear...Considering i can hit clay pigions out to 100 yards with it im good with it... Now if i was going into harms way i would be carrying the largest capacity 45 acp i could get,

 

[bldsmith]

I have a 329pd and it is my primary carry during hunting season, besides my rifle that is. It us very light and comfortable to wear. I end up putting it in my bino bag. Easier to get at with a pack on.

It is a brute with heavy loads. I run 44spl when shooting a lot. Then I run a cylinder of full bore through just to make sure it's still on. With 300gn buffalo bore it is pretty snappy.

 

[Unknown]

The S&W 329 PD looks like a really neat pistol. However...before you buy one, I would STRONGLY recommend shooting one of the large bore extreme lightweight pistols. I had a S&W 296 (Titanium/Scandium frame, hammerless 44 special), and named it Geezus because that was the response when I let other people shoot it. It is "only" a 44 special.. When I let other friends shoot it, after the first shot, they would look at me with a puzzled look on their face as if they mis-perceived something. With the second shot, they would look at me with a "what the hell?" kind of expression, and with the third shot they would usually say some thing like "geezus that thing is snappy". Only a few fired the fourth shot, and as long as I have had the pistol, only one friend has fired all five.

It is a wonderful pistol to carry a lot, and rarely shoot, but shooting it is an experience you will remember. I imagine the 44 mag would be far, FAR more impressive. However, if a Grizzly was after you, I think recoil would be the last thing on your mind. The problem becomes the ability to practice with the pistol enough to be effective with it.

I don't know if the Glock 10mm would have adequate ballistic performance on Grizzly, but a hard cast 200 grain bullet at 1200 fps or more ought to at least get the Grizzly's attention. It becomes an issue on how many effective rounds can you deliver from either platform. Six shots of 44 mag with beastly recoil, vs 15 shots of 10mm with stout but manageable recoil is something that really deserves some thought.

 

[flyright]

With a Grizzly, you're better off just removing the front sight from any handgun. The old Alaskan guide trick...

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

My opinion.....44 Mag revolver with a 6" barrel loaded hot. I have a Dan Wesson .357 and have owned a .44 mag version and with premium hot loaded ammunition this is as good as it gets. A Ruger Blackhawk .44 mag with heavy for caliber bullets is not perfection but can, and has, taken the largest of North American game.

I'd prefer a .454 Casull but those weapons are almost 2X the size/weight of a classic .44 mag with resultant recoil. I'd have to be a pro handgun hunter to run one and I'm not.

YMMV.

VooDoo

 

[QuarterHorse]

I carry a Ruger SBH with on this side of wild 45 Colt hand loads with a 325gr hard cast pill of a John Linbaugh load.

 

[bldsmith]

With a Grizzly, you're better off just removing the front sight from any handgun. The old Alaskan guide trick...

That way it doesn't hurt as bad when he pulls it back out.

 

[Diablo]

I usually hunt with a 74 Sharps or a Winchester lever gun so an appropriate single action usually rides on my hip View attachment 6989322

dat is very bright and shiny...........

 

[Diablo]

I've had Smith & Wesson Mountain Guns for several years.

Their 4" MG barrel is lighter than the standard Smith 4" barrel.

My 629 (44 Mag) with heavy loads is pretty manageable IMO if you have some experience shooting magnum revolvers.

The 625 (45 LC) with heavy loads is......more interesting.

Handloads use Hornady 300gr XTPs, and H-110.

As for the weak web of some 45 LC brass, I got a batch of Casull brass several years ago, trimmed it to length for .45LC, and worked up my loads.

I also have an Alessi N frame holster for these 4" barrel N Frame S&W revolvers.

Pretty simple, there's no effing rails, no lights, no lasers.

Just a fist full when you pull the trigger.

 

[Shoots 700's]

Being in the grizz woods has caused me to rethink my carry choice.
I've carried a Springfield XD 40 among the Black bears and cats.
Never felt under gunned.
While maybe a mild paranoia I'm thinking a sow grizz and cubs may need more "persuasion".
Looking at the Smith 329 PD.
Any thoughts on this specific pistol?

R

I carry a Ruger Redhawk 45 colt

 

[Jakebrake300]

I carry a Ruger SBH with on this side of wild 45 Colt hand loads with a 325gr hard cast pill of a John Linbaugh load.

What kind of velocity are you getting out of your hand loads and the 325ers?

 

[QuarterHorse]

What kind of velocity are you getting out of your hand loads and the 325ers?

I want to say right at 1250 on a 7.5" barrel. Closer to 1650 out of my 16.5" lever. It's been a few years but I know I'm close with those numbers.

 

[ttown]

Here in California I carry my Ruger Blackhawk 41 magnum when I'm pig hunting but I've never hunted where I have to worry about bears.

 

[Bigwheels]

I've been running with a stainless Super Blackhawk in 45 Colt. Low slung western holster. 360gr Oregon Laser Cast going 1200 fps. These will penetrate 10" of solid pine at 25yds.

 

[Jthomas218]

I carry a Glock 43 when hunting . Compact and packs enough punch if you run into some unwelcome critters

 

[Jsmith410]

I personally carry a G40 but if I was playing in big bear territory I think I’d feel better with a big bore revolver.

 

[MK20]

Only 2 guns I would carry for this.
Glock 20 10mm
S&W 69 44 mag

 

[Herb Stoner]

After several close encounters while fly fishing in Alaska, Canada, and US grizzly states (and a few blacks elsewhere) I bought a Ruger Alaskan in 454 for those trips or as a sidearm while hunting. Its a chunk to carry so I recommend a chest harness. Its got a lot of recoil so range rime is key as with any firearm. If you ever been inside of 10 yards of grizzly in the wild its unnerving so, again, get comfortable shooting it. I was false charged once - browns are a lot faster than they look! Fortunately it stopped a few yards out.
I've also spent much of my life hiking / backpacking with many trips going 2-3 weeks at a time so the weight of any gun is not feasible and bear spray is the go to if i'm hiking or fishing in grizzly county (black bears I just don't bother). I'm going against the grain here but I 've left the Ruger home the last couple of trips and just carried the spray - I'd definitely take the spray over a 10mm / 40 or similar. I know a few guides who prefer bear spray as well.

 

[david walter]

Reliability, durability, preference.

Reliability and durability are why you should choose the Glock.

Just sayin’

 

[SporterII]

It's already been explained that Clearance drills with Glock's are easy to perform wile under attack.
Just sayin I am not that guy.

 

[david walter]

Everyone is a glock hater until you realize 6 shots in a revolver is skimpy when your life is on the line.

Better than nothing, but not the same as a magazine fed auto loader.