HVAC tech question

[jMarine]

I noticed a small puddle of water this morning underneath my handler on the basement floor and followed it up to a red plug on the side of the unit. I dried up the water and tightened the little plug (it was barely tight at all. Actually kind of loose) don’t worry, I didn’t bare down on it just did finger right and about 2 degrees of a turn with a crescent. Just a tiny bump. However, it’s still leaking very slowly.

What is this plug for? Does it need to be drained? Is this Indicative of a bigger problem?

HVAC is definitely not one of my strong suits! But I am very handy with tools and have enough common sense to figure shit out but I’ve always been intimidated with HVAC stuff. Especially when it’s nearly summer.

Any help would be awesome!

 

[stratton2885]

Look to the left and see the drain, it is just another port to hook the drain too. So likely the drain is plugged and backing up.

 

[jMarine]

Excuse the coming dumb questions... what could be clogged? This handler is in the basement and does not have a "drip." I believe it drips down the pipe to the left and goes into a small pump that is then tubed up and out of the basement, following the lines coming from the condenser outside.

 

[powdahound76]

@DarnYankeeUSMC

Dis man is a crayon aficionado as you and may need some of yer esperspeshulistic help.

 

[jMarine]

I believe I fixed the issue. I checked out the pump, and it is working as it should. I looked up the manual for this unit just to get a better visual and learned that these are just plugs for the drip pan beneath the coils (i think I'm correct). removed the side cover to verify. There is about 1/2-3/4 inch of water sitting in the bottom; not sure if this is ideal or no big deal since the holes for the drain lines are not all the way to the bottom of the pan. The drain seems to be working just fine into the pump. Teflon taped the one drain plug that was leaking.

The only further question is, should the pan be holding any/some/little or no water? Does it matter? Should I investigate further?

 

[merica]

There really shouldn't be water sitting in the pan like that. The drain lines get plugged up sometimes with organic matter. There are various ways to clean this out. I usually use a shopvac connected to the end of the line to pull all the crap out, followed by some hot water and vinegar. You can use bleach as well.

Something like this..

Easy Ways to Unclog an AC Drain: 11 Steps (with Pictures)

Every home AC system has a drain line that runs from the condenser coils inside the home to the exterior of the home or another drainage point. Over time, mold and mildew can grow inside the drain line and cause problematic clogs. You'll...

www.wikihow.com

and Yes @DarnYankeeUSMC knows best for sure

 

[jMarine]

In the morning I think I’m going to pull the PVC drain line off and vacuum it out and see if that pulls any debris that’s sitting at the base and damming it. I know it is draining but the pan holds some residual. Thanks for the feedback

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

I sent you a PM.

In the morning I think I’m going to pull the PVC drain line off and vacuum it out and see if that pulls any debris that’s sitting at the base and damming it. I know it is draining but the pan holds some residual. Thanks for the feedback

 

[n2ishun]

Whoever plumbed the drain is an idiot.
In that limited view of it....PVC to steel (MISTAKE!) to PVC 45* to PVC 90* to PVC 90* all on what appears to be the same level.
Not sure that is a steel threaded piece in there, it looks like it....and we all know steel doesn't rust, right ?
There should be a downward slope to every bit of it, and I see none (granted camera angle and whatnot).
Did no one know that you can heat PVC and get a nice smooth bend in it ?
Seems not.
All those junctions make for places inside the PVC to hold residue which in turn causes clogs....kinda like what you're experiencing, right ?

 

[jMarine]

Whoever plumbed the drain is an idiot.
In that limited view of it....PVC to steel (MISTAKE!) to PVC 45* to PVC 90* to PVC 90* all on what appears to be the same level.
Not sure that is a steel threaded piece in there, it looks like it....and we all know steel doesn't rust, right ?
There should be a downward slope to every bit of it, and I see none (granted camera angle and whatnot).
Did no one know that you can heat PVC and get a nice smooth bend in it ?
Seems not.
All those junctions make for places inside the PVC to hold residue which in turn causes clogs....kinda like what you're experiencing, right ?

haha yeah i know zero about HVAC, but i do PLENTY of plumbing for barrier drains and electrical conduit for work, and we heat pipe religiously! The PVC fitting is a male adapter, there is no steel there. It's just an illusion in the picture. And there is a slight fall in the horizontal pipe. Redoing it with a single piece of heated pipe was one of my initial thoughts this morning when I was scoping everything out. I'm embarrassed to say that my HVAC has been the one thing I have put on the back burner like a dummy and have not done nearly enough service and maintenance on. For some reason, it intimidates me.

 

[chevy_man]

Whoever plumbed the drain is an idiot.
In that limited view of it....PVC to steel (MISTAKE!) to PVC 45* to PVC 90* to PVC 90* all on what appears to be the same level.
Not sure that is a steel threaded piece in there, it looks like it....and we all know steel doesn't rust, right ?
There should be a downward slope to every bit of it, and I see none (granted camera angle and whatnot).
Did no one know that you can heat PVC and get a nice smooth bend in it ?
Seems not.
All those junctions make for places inside the PVC to hold residue which in turn causes clogs....kinda like what you're experiencing, right ?

That's obviously a white plastic PVC T/A.

You do know that heating PVC for plumbing is against code, right? While it's only a drain, no licensed plumber here will put heat to any pipe they install. That's an electrician thing, with conduit, not pipe.

Once again you think you're a genius, while being 100% off in the weeds.

 

[chevy_man]

In the morning I think I’m going to pull the PVC drain line off and vacuum it out and see if that pulls any debris that’s sitting at the base and damming it. I know it is draining but the pan holds some residual. Thanks for the feedback

Unless it's growing stuff I wouldn't worry. Check it to make sure it's clear, but not a worry. I'd bet that initial drain plug just rattled loose enough to leak after all the fan cycles over the years.


HVAC is stupid easy to service. I rebuilt my whole furnace last winter 1 part at a time. Fan died, replace fan. Board died, replace board, etc.

 

[n2ishun]

That's obviously a white plastic PVC T/A.

You do know that heating PVC for plumbing is against code, right? While it's only a drain, no licensed plumber here will put heat to any pipe they install. That's an electrician thing, with conduit, not pipe.

Once again you think you're a genius, while being 100% off in the weeds.

IS that plumbing ?
Does HVAC have anything to do with plumbing other than the gas line (IF it has one)?

You have zero clues and just like to whine, cry, and bitch like a 12 year old school girl.

Are plumbers the ones that hook up HVAC ?
Moron.

Does plumbing code pertain to a simple dripping drain tube ?
Moron.

BTW, how do you sweat copper pipe if you don't heat it ?
Idiot.

Go away, grown ups are talking and you're interrupting again.

 

[greg1147]

Whoever plumbed the drain is an idiot.
In that limited view of it....PVC to steel (MISTAKE!) to PVC 45* to PVC 90* to PVC 90* all on what appears to be the same level.
Not sure that is a steel threaded piece in there, it looks like it....and we all know steel doesn't rust, right ?
There should be a downward slope to every bit of it, and I see none (granted camera angle and whatnot).
Did no one know that you can heat PVC and get a nice smooth bend in it ?
Seems not.
All those junctions make for places inside the PVC to hold residue which in turn causes clogs....kinda like what you're experiencing, right ?

Yup moron would be my description, no trap so the moving air will keep water in the pan until the unit cycle off. Good area for growing
algae etc. Check some vids on Utube. And overall the installer as a hack there is, well maybe not any longer of tradesmen taking pride in their
work, just saying.

 

[supercorndogs]

Whoever plumbed the drain is an idiot.
In that limited view of it....PVC to steel (MISTAKE!) to PVC 45* to PVC 90* to PVC 90* all on what appears to be the same level.
Not sure that is a steel threaded piece in there, it looks like it....and we all know steel doesn't rust, right ?
There should be a downward slope to every bit of it, and I see none (granted camera angle and whatnot).
Did no one know that you can heat PVC and get a nice smooth bend in it ?
Seems not.
All those junctions make for places inside the PVC to hold residue which in turn causes clogs....kinda like what you're experiencing, right ?

Galvanized steel pipe fittings are prone to rust?

The only piece of pipe I see that looks like steel, would be the gas line.

 

[whatsupdoc]

It has been my understanding that there should be two drains out of the evapoprator the lowest (main) drain and the
a second drain connected to the higher drain port to provide a visual indication that the main is clogged.

 

[chevy_man]

IS that plumbing ?
Does HVAC have anything to do with plumbing other than the gas line (IF it has one)?

You have zero clues and just like to whine, cry, and bitch like a 12 year old school girl.

Are plumbers the ones that hook up HVAC ?
Moron.

Does plumbing code pertain to a simple dripping drain tube ?
Moron.

BTW, how do you sweat copper pipe if you don't heat it ?
Idiot.

Go away, grown ups are talking and you're interrupting again.

Well, you're the one that comes in acting like a liberal calling names and throwing a tantrum. You give fucked up shit advise and I call you out on your stupidity.


Every house I've ever done the plumbers hooked up the condensate drains. Just like I wire all the 120 and 240, and provide a recep for the condensate pump.

You were talking about heating PVC. Not sure what sweating copper has to do with a PVC drain.

 

[chevy_man]

Yup moron would be my description, no trap so the moving air will keep water in the pan until the unit cycle off. Good area for growing
algae etc. Check some vids on Utube. And overall the installer as a hack there is, well maybe not any longer of tradesmen taking pride in their
work, just saying.

The trap would be low, next to the furnace and out of view of the picture.

 

[n2ishun]

Every house I've ever done the plumbers hooked up the condensate drains.

Where is this alleged practice done ?
Zimbabwe ?

HVAC does the full install, period.

BTW, here's any and all pertinent National Code.
You know you need to read it....swifty.

https://www.iccsafe.org/wp-content/uploads/2021_SigChanges_IMC_307.2.1.1.pdf

 

[ArTeeKay]

Where is this alleged practice done ?
Zimbabwe ?

HVAC does the full install, period.

BTW, here's any and all pertinent National Code.
You know you need to read it....swifty.

https://www.iccsafe.org/wp-content/uploads/2021_SigChanges_IMC_307.2.1.1.pdf

Yeah, no. In large parts of the country, any man jack can set, pipe, duct, power, and run controls for most residental heating equipment. Certification is only nationally required when charging a system with refrigerant gases, or when installing high or low pressure systems, both boilers and chillers.

State or local inspector supercedes national code. If it doesn't get their signature, it gets torn out and done again. Even, and especially, when they're wrong. Code is the bare minimum, written for safe operation only. Not efficiency, not reliability, not aesthetics, not nothing else.

And the PVC to steel connection you see there? It isn't one. It's all PVC. Nevermind that condensate drains, when piped as pictured, do not require the same pitch as DWV piping. You want as little pitch as possible, in order to prevent the trap from siphoning.

But please do tell us again what an expert you are.

 

[n2ishun]

Siphoning ?
From what ?
How ?
It comes from an open pan at the bottom of the "A-coil" that is actually the evaporator (hey, everyone says a-coil everywhere, it's just not technically accurate unless going by looks).
The drain is an open at both ends tube, connected to nothing on either end....it's basically a guide for dripping water, nothing more.
It can't siphon unless you seriously have done something impossibly stupid.
The only reason for a trap on one is to prevent insects from climbing into the A/C system.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

A trap is used for negative pressure drains on HVAC systems.
When the evaporator coil is located up stream of the fan you have a positive pressure situation and a trap is not required for condensation to drain. When the drain is down stream of the fan you have a negative pressure situation and a trap is required for the condensation to drain.
The coil pictured has multiple drains so you can either make it a right or left hand drain depending on what the installer needs. Some of the evaporator coils are designed for multiple layouts. Whether it's up flow, downflow, horizontal left or right and there's multiple drain connections for those layouts.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

And why would I get a torch from the truck, heat PVC pipe and bend it when I have a vast selection of pre made 90's, 45's, T's and other pieces that can be easily used?

 

[ArTeeKay]

Siphoning ?
From what ?
How ?
It comes from an open pan at the bottom of the "A-coil" that is actually the evaporator (hey, everyone says a-coil everywhere, it's just not technically accurate unless going by looks).
The drain is an open at both ends tube, connected to nothing on either end....it's basically a guide for dripping water, nothing more.
It can't siphon unless you seriously have done something impossibly stupid.
The only reason for a trap on one is to prevent insects from climbing into the A/C system.

My brother, the invitation for explanation was rhetorical. I didn't actually expect you to double down on the condescending idiocy.

Literally yesterday, I did a call for a customer with a unit that was experiencing low airflow and no heat, and it was all due to an improperly trapped condensate drain, and lack of regular maintenance beyond changing filters. The condensate pan had filled up, built up a skiff of scum, and started growing enough mold inside the unit that the evaporator coil was not getting enough airflow across it, and I found it with an ice dam on the lower half. All this meant that the unit, on a call for heat, had fired it's burner, but due to low airflow, had tripped it's high limit switch, which needed to be reset manually. A rebuilt trap, a little cleaning, a check for appropriate drainage from the condensate pan, 15 minutes of watching operation and keeping track of temperatures, and all's well in the world again.

And to clarify, I'm not an HVAC tech. I do building automation and integration. Dispatch told me that customer suspected a malfunctioning unit controller.

OP, apologies for hijacking the thread with nonsense, but I'm sure @DarnYankeeUSMC has already gotten you sorted out. For the others reading along, change air filters when you change your clocks, clean out your condensate pans and traps once in awhile, and take a look at your equipment once in awhile when it's running well, so you have a baseline when something seems wrong. Or, alternately, call your friendly local HVAC professional, and they will be happy to take your money.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

My brother, the invitation for explanation was rhetorical. I didn't actually expect you to double down on the condescending idiocy.

Literally yesterday, I did a call for a customer with a unit that was experiencing low airflow and no heat, and it was all due to an improperly trapped condensate drain, and lack of regular maintenance beyond changing filters. The condensate pan had filled up, built up a skiff of scum, and started growing enough mold inside the unit that the evaporator coil was not getting enough airflow across it, and I found it with an ice dam on the lower half. All this meant that the unit, on a call for heat, had fired it's burner, but due to low airflow, had tripped it's high limit switch, which needed to be reset manually. A rebuilt trap, a little cleaning, a check for appropriate drainage from the condensate pan, 15 minutes of watching operation and keeping track of temperatures, and all's well in the world again.

And to clarify, I'm not an HVAC tech. I do building automation and integration. Dispatch told me that customer suspected a malfunctioning unit controller.

OP, apologies for hijacking the thread with nonsense, but I'm sure @DarnYankeeUSMC has already gotten you sorted out. For the others reading along, change air filters when you change your clocks, clean out your condensate pans and traps once in awhile, and take a look at your equipment once in awhile when it's running well, so you have a baseline when something seems wrong. Or, alternately, call your friendly local HVAC professional, and they will be happy to take your money.

Thought you would get a laugh out of this picture.
Customer states that the air was working fine until last night. (This was a year or so ago)

I asked when was the last time they changed the filter. Of course they said last night. So I asked them.. before that? Every month they told me.
Considering that their ductwork was intact. I believe that they were not telling me the truth

 

[jMarine]

My brother, the invitation for explanation was rhetorical. I didn't actually expect you to double down on the condescending idiocy.

Literally yesterday, I did a call for a customer with a unit that was experiencing low airflow and no heat, and it was all due to an improperly trapped condensate drain, and lack of regular maintenance beyond changing filters. The condensate pan had filled up, built up a skiff of scum, and started growing enough mold inside the unit that the evaporator coil was not getting enough airflow across it, and I found it with an ice dam on the lower half. All this meant that the unit, on a call for heat, had fired it's burner, but due to low airflow, had tripped it's high limit switch, which needed to be reset manually. A rebuilt trap, a little cleaning, a check for appropriate drainage from the condensate pan, 15 minutes of watching operation and keeping track of temperatures, and all's well in the world again.

And to clarify, I'm not an HVAC tech. I do building automation and integration. Dispatch told me that customer suspected a malfunctioning unit controller.

OP, apologies for hijacking the thread with nonsense, but I'm sure @DarnYankeeUSMC has already gotten you sorted out. For the others reading along, change air filters when you change your clocks, clean out your condensate pans and traps once in awhile, and take a look at your equipment once in awhile when it's running well, so you have a baseline when something seems wrong. Or, alternately, call your friendly local HVAC professional, and they will be happy to take your money.

No worries! It’s all been informative and entertaining at best!

 

[ArTeeKay]

Thought you would get a laugh out of this picture.
Customer states that the air was working fine until last night. (This was a year or so ago)
View attachment 8150370
I asked when was the last time they changed the filter. Of course they said last night. So I asked them.. before that? Every month they told me.
Considering that their ductwork was intact. I believe that they were not telling me the truth

My favorite "Sure, buddy." moment, from recently, was a hospital that had a critical environment pressure controller that wouldn't quit going into it's alarm condition. Customer states that the exhaust fan that controls space pressure is operational, and they're sure that it's an issue with the pressure controller. On a hunch, I have the maintenance guy take me up to the roof to check thing out. Pop the cover off, and what do you know, the motor is turning, but the belt is in tatters laying on the bottom of the housing. I ask how often belts get changed. "Every 3 months for critical equipment, yearly for everything else." Sure, buddy.

I really should start keeping a notebook full of the ridiculous stuff I hear from customers, as regards their systems and equipment. It's been a real struggle to beat the impulse to just facepalm when I hear some of those folks talk.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

My favorite "Sure, buddy." moment, from recently, was a hospital that had a critical environment pressure controller that wouldn't quit going into it's alarm condition. Customer states that the exhaust fan that controls space pressure is operational, and they're sure that it's an issue with the pressure controller. On a hunch, I have the maintenance guy take me up to the roof to check thing out. Pop the cover off, and what do you know, the motor is turning, but the belt is in tatters laying on the bottom of the housing. I ask how often belts get changed. "Every 3 months for critical equipment, yearly for everything else." Sure, buddy.

I really should start keeping a notebook full of the ridiculous stuff I hear from customers, as regards their systems and equipment. It's been a real struggle to beat the impulse to just facepalm when I hear some of those folks talk.

30 years in the business and I remember enough to write two books.
Hospital called me because their MRI unit was not staying cool enough to run. $500 an hour profit from the machine (at the time) and they wanted it working. I get there at around 8 that evening to find out that some other company has already been there and wanted a gazillion dollars to replace it. I put a new fan motor on the chiller and charged them $500.

 

[ArTeeKay]

I sure do like coming in for second opinions, and solving problems for way less money than originally quoted. The kind of customer loyalty you get from that is worth it's weight in R-22.

 

[chevy_man]

Where is this alleged practice done ?
Zimbabwe ?

HVAC does the full install, period.

BTW, here's any and all pertinent National Code.
You know you need to read it....swifty.

https://www.iccsafe.org/wp-content/uploads/2021_SigChanges_IMC_307.2.1.1.pdf

Every state I've ever worked. Tinners don't even carry small PVC parts here. They keep 4" for the vents and that's it.

 

[JG26_Irish]

JB, Sounds like at least some of the advice offered was on point. The A-coil in the HVAC for either central air (gas heat) or heat pump will produce liquid condensate when the A/C is running. The amounts vary with the humidity. The PVC pipe in the 2nd pic is the drain for that water. It only collects in the warmer months. Often the drain will clog with mold, algae, dust, etc and cause the drain pan to over fill. Clean the drain and pour some bleach in it once a month in the cooling months and it is usually trouble free. Not enough detail in the photos for me to critique the design and installation. It is humid in KY in the summer and I can see as much as a couple of gallons per day from my drain.

While cleaning the drain, replace the filter every month or two and check to make sure there are no boxes, gun cases or ammo cans piled on top of the duct vents in each room. It will improve the efficiency of the unit's performance and extend the life of the compressor.

Irish