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I guess I'm an idiot and need some help...
- Thread starter Tompow
- Start date
This more along the lines of an answer to the original question... Thanks for taking the time to provide that feedback
I'll give this a shot.
Barrel quality and smoothness have an effect on how much damage a projectile sustains while traveling down the barrel.
While a barrel might be able to produce fantastic groups at 100yds, the minor damage to the bullet magnifies the dispersion the longer the range gets.
High quality barrels have smoother lands and grooves, but they are dimensionally way more consistent.
Here goes the golf analagy:
Hit two golf balls exactly the same to 100 yards with your pitching wedge.
One ball is brand new and the other bounced across the parking lot last time you played.
At 100yds, both shots will hit within a reasonable distance of each other. Let's call this <1 MOA.
Now, take those same two balls and hit them 355yds and try to maintain a straight path. The new ball is capable of that. The scratched up one will begin to draw or fade depending on the location of the scratches.
Add in wind effects and altitude, and the dispersion increases. It's no longer < MOA because of the aerodynamics and the resistance created by each golf ball are affected more because of the increased distance and time that it's in the "weather".
Your bullets have a ballistic coefficient. Adding damaged noses from chambering, scratches from the Mag well and striations on the surface due to crappy bore conditions will change the BC for the worse.
Wind affects a bullet at 100yds more than other atmospheric conditions.
Stretch that out to 1k and not only does wind have a much larger effect, but the atmosphere matters even more now.
Throw in a bullet with it's BC that's been fucked up, you now have a recipe for unexplained misses.
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Wind…Gravity…Rotation of the earth (Coriolis Affect)…Spin-drift…Ambient temperature…Barometric pressure…Bullet concentricity… Lots of shit.
Tell me you’ve never shot past 100 yards, without telling me you’ve never shot past 100 yards.
"if its MOA at 100m and flying true what happen along the way to 1000m that changes that due to the cost of the rifle?"Wind…Gravity…Rotation of the earth (Coriolis Affect)…Spin-drift…Ambient temperature…Barometric pressure…Bullet concentricity… Lots of shit.
Tell me you’ve never shot past 100 yards, without telling me you’ve never shot past 100 yards.
Tell me you don't comprehend English without telling me you don't comprehend English
If you cannot plainly comprehend why a $500 rifle is only a $500 rifle, and not a $5,000 rifle, then maybe you need to learn what precision workmanship and parts quality are.
If the rifles shoot the same at both 100 & 1000, then nothing is different about the accuracy. But I highly doubt they will. But there will still be a monumental difference in quality of the 2 rifles.
Look, just because your Savage Axis II 6.5 Creedmoor shoots 1 MOA @ 100 with factory Hornady ammo, doesn’t mean you’re ready to start shooting 1,000 yard BR comps…
Stop being so hard on yourself. That’s why we are here.
You are trying to be a smartass based on your oversimplification of things.
You didn't really come here to understand something rather for confirmation bias to help you win your argument with another counter FUDD
"Flying true" is not exactly how ballistics works. Yes you have the trajectory set, BUT a large number of variations can effect how it stays the course or not.
A better quality launch tube and ignition chamber and handling of the projectile minimize many small things that can compound at distance to reduce your accuracy.
Money itself doesn't change the bullet flight any.
BUT generally below a certain threshold the quality tolerances of barrels and systems has to be lowered to hit a price point.
Then it becomes luck of the draw, you may get a fantastic barrel, you may also get a crappy one.
Pay your monies take your chances.
For most FUDDs doesn't matter, if it hits roughly close to MOA out to 300 yards good enough, the rest is just them arguing a bunch of hot air.
You must be the guy behind the counter
I should add that this is true as long as the bullet has enough spin and momentum to remain stable. Price or brand would have an impact of this either.
Clearly those two have never played Frisbee either.
At this point, I'm here for the entertainment and hoping it'll hit page 12.
At this point, I'm here for the entertainment and hoping it'll hit page 12.
Lol 2020 join date with 3 posts that day and 11 posts today. Total.
They give off a smell or something I know the answer before i click the profile
It's really not good. When it's an external ballistics argument he changes it to an internal ballistics issue and vice versa at will, while simultaneously refusing to acknowledge that the two are inseparably intertwined.
How does QC change the repeatability of a rifle. Taking shooter skill, ammo quality, and external factors out of the equation are there things in a lower quality rifle that would affect velocity ES and the actual BC of the bullet leaving the barrel?
If there is something affecting the ES of the bullet velocity it can affect precision. Ran some rough numbers on a Berger 6.5 bullet. With a 100 yard zero an ES of 40 fps would be a theoretical max difference of 0.15" at 200 yards but a difference of 10.34" at 1000 yards.
If there is something affecting the bullet BC (that isn't consistent) it can affect precision. Lowering the BC by 5% causes a change of .04" at 200 yards but a 5.22" at 1000 yards.
This shows potentially how two variables would affect precision greater at greater distances.
If there is something affecting the ES of the bullet velocity it can affect precision. Ran some rough numbers on a Berger 6.5 bullet. With a 100 yard zero an ES of 40 fps would be a theoretical max difference of 0.15" at 200 yards but a difference of 10.34" at 1000 yards.
If there is something affecting the bullet BC (that isn't consistent) it can affect precision. Lowering the BC by 5% causes a change of .04" at 200 yards but a 5.22" at 1000 yards.
This shows potentially how two variables would affect precision greater at greater distances.
If you cannot plainly comprehend why a $500 rifle is only a $500 rifle, and not a $5,000 rifle, then maybe you need to learn what precision workmanship and parts quality are.
If the rifles shoot the same at both 100 & 1000, then nothing is different about the accuracy. But I highly doubt they will. But there will still be a monumental difference in quality of the 2 rifles.
Look, just because your Savage Axis II 6.5 Creedmoor shoots 1 MOA @ 100 with factory Hornady ammo, doesn’t mean you’re ready to start shooting 1,000 yard BR comps…
LOL... the over-compensator classic reply... it's ok thought tiny pee-pee boy. Go flex your big rifle at the range with all your other boyfriends...
- Nov 3, 2010
- 9,702
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I’m betting a salvage or a rubber stock Ruger or Remington
A cheaper rifle may have a rougher bore, inconsistent twist rate etc. every 100 yards magnifies what seems as an insignificant amount of dispersion. At longer distances the consistency of your ammunition is also magnified in vertical spread from a high or low extreme spread of velocity. We also have environmental factors that magnify at distance.
I am not a musician.
I can't tell the difference between a $500 guitar and a $50,000 guitar. A note is just a frequency, right? If it makes the right sound, it makes the right sound.
If I asked Joe Satriani to explain the difference to me, he'd probably struggle to break them down to a level that I could really go "oh, okay, that totally makes sense."
Doesn't mean there's no difference.
I can't tell the difference between a $500 guitar and a $50,000 guitar. A note is just a frequency, right? If it makes the right sound, it makes the right sound.
If I asked Joe Satriani to explain the difference to me, he'd probably struggle to break them down to a level that I could really go "oh, okay, that totally makes sense."
Doesn't mean there's no difference.
Haven't yet... was looking at the Seekins Havok HIT in 6.5 PRC. I have a couple shit rifles that I'm fine with out to 500-600m was just asking for some input but like most forums you gotta sift through the BS to find actual info...
You’re triggered response shows just how inferior and out-gunned you already KNOW you are in this conversation. 
Yes- all things being equal it doesn't matter the cost of the gun. The same forces that act on the bullet will still act on it regardless of if it was fired from a expensive or cheap barrel. If you have a barrel that gets the bullet started correctly, doesn't cause any deformation- and has a consistent velocity then it wont matter. The issue being that all of those things are easier to have happen in quality products- and quality takes more time and costs more.
I (generally) get more consistent muzzle velocities out of higher dollar barrels than out of cheaper stuff. I also have less "wonder what the hell happened there" moments- where you are putting rounds on target at distance and then one is suddenly way off.
But the first gun I ever got was a savage- and had no trouble taking it out to 1000. But when considering cost the precision of the gun should not be the only thing that you consider (it's not even the first thing for me)... I will take dependability over group size.
I (generally) get more consistent muzzle velocities out of higher dollar barrels than out of cheaper stuff. I also have less "wonder what the hell happened there" moments- where you are putting rounds on target at distance and then one is suddenly way off.
But the first gun I ever got was a savage- and had no trouble taking it out to 1000. But when considering cost the precision of the gun should not be the only thing that you consider (it's not even the first thing for me)... I will take dependability over group size.
Out gunned without a doubt... I must say though, you've been a big help to me and my attempt to gain some education in your field. Thanks for all the valuable advice and information you've contributed to this thread. You certainly represent this community in a bright, welcoming, helpful, and intelligent manner. I'm sure the other members of this forum are proud of way you represent them as a whole...
Thanks for taking a moment to read and attempt to decipher my fumbled effort in the OP to understand a piece of information and providing some useful input.
I could give a fuck less what anyone on this entire planet thinks, especially someone I don’t know.
And there's that pretty little attitude that comes with the previously mentioned tiny pee-pee comment. Pardon me ma'am but your inadequacy is showing...I could give a fuck less what anyone on this entire planet thinks, especially someone I don’t know.
So here's a fun little thing I enjoy doing with assholes like yourself who like to hop on forums and attempt do do some fancy keyboard ninja shit like you're pulling now...it's called "put up or shut up"... here's how it works. You run and find your big flex, write down todays date and your screen name on a piece of paper, and take and post a photo of the two on here and I'll happily do the same... shit, in your case I'll post two for every one of yours! So what do you wanna do first? Semi/AR platform? Bolt gun? Pistol? Shotgun? Hell in your case want to just make this easy on you and go knife? Your call... let's go big mouth...
Wouldn't this same logic apply to your $400 Arken scopes ???If you cannot plainly comprehend why a $500 rifle is only a $500 rifle, and not a $5,000 rifle, then maybe you need to learn what precision workmanship and parts quality are.
If the rifles shoot the same at both 100 & 1000, then nothing is different about the accuracy. But I highly doubt they will. But there will still be a monumental difference in quality of the 2 rifles.
Look, just because your Savage Axis II 6.5 Creedmoor shoots 1 MOA @ 100 with factory Hornady ammo, doesn’t mean you’re ready to start shooting 1,000 yard BR comps…
Oh God, this smacks of that put up or shut up dude from maybe a decade ago that wanted everyone that offered up comments to post their professional sniping creds first. He claimed to have a multi decade career as a .mil/ FBI sniper. He got played with for a while before Shankster doxed him, another dude called him, we found out he was actually a 15 year old kid, and Frank nixed the thread.... Good times.
