I think I want a red dot on my new pistol.

[Charmingmander]

For sure if I practiced a lot more with irons I could use them and hell I've shot fantastic ragged hole groups with some handguns. But at 30 and with glasses it just seems like every year my ability to properly use irons on rifles or handguns gets worse. Can't focus them properly. I think it just has to do with my prescription or something. Scopes and dots work fine (although dots look like fucking comets most of the time).

Handgun red dots are just far faster and easier. Like I said, didn't even have to use proper form. Just get dot on target and you're A-OK.

 

[308pirate]

For sure if I practiced a lot more with irons I could use them

You need to learn to use irons with target focus for the majority of targets. There's a place for a hard front sight focus if your eyes will let you do so (everyone gets presbyopia sooner or later) but that place is distant targets with small scoring (or vital) areas.

You absolutely don't need a hard front sight focus to rip a tight pair on a wide open target 10 yards away, but it takes some learning how to and your grip and index have to be absolutely on point.

Trainers that I know teach that skill: Tim Herron, Ben Stoeger, Hwansik Kim and Joel Park. I think Steve Anderson does too. There may be others but I don't know who they are.

Two videos on the subject to get you started

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Those are two very interesting videos. I did not understand what you were talking about earlier when you said to put tape over the optic. The videos explain this.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Trainers that I know teach that skill: Tim Herron, Ben Stoeger, Hwansik Kim and Joel Park. I think Steve Anderson does too. There may be others but I don't know who they are.

Anderson is in that group. "See what you need to see". Hard sight focus is agency dogma to train large groups of people with a wide disparity of experience. Target and sight focus should change depending on target, distance, and speed. Like you said.

 

[308pirate]

Those are two very interesting videos. I did not understand what you were talking about earlier when you said to put tape over the optic. The videos explain this.

Google how binocular vision (how our eyes normally see the world) works. It will make perfect sense.

ETA I should start charging for training LOL

 

[308pirate]

If you'd like to see a dude who has mastered open sights, go watch Joey Sauerland on IG or YouTube. He's a Limited Grand Master in USPSA that shot his open sighted gun at the USPSA Open gun(race gun) Nationals and on his best stage, placed 3rd.....with iron sights.

That guy is operating at nearly the edge of human performance. His movement is insanely athletic.

Some context for those not familiar with USPSA equipment rules.......open division allows pistols with huge compensators and frame-mounted optics. Sauerland beat almost all of them using a similar pistol with iron sights and with no compensator.

 

[Gustav7]

That guy is operating at nearly the edge of human performance.

Straight fucking humbled National Level race gun GM's ... wild
I'm interested to Kenshiro Nagata when he gets a little older and stronger...if he continues to shoot.

 

[308pirate]

Anderson is in that group. "See what you need to see". Hard sight focus is agency dogma to train large groups of people with a wide disparity of experience. Target and sight focus should change depending on target, distance, and speed. Like you said.

Interesting anecdote. One day doing pistol practice with two buds we were running a drill called the accelerator. USPSA targets at 5, 15, and 25 yards. Draw two shots on each near to far or far to near your choice. You can go one way and stop or go one way, reload, and go the other way.

After running it several times with a Shadow 2 with optic I switched to a CZ P-10F with irons and ran the drill in virtually the same hit factor by using target focus at all three distances. Now mind you this was open targets, but still......

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Interesting anecdote. One day doing pistol practice with two buds we were running a drill called the accelerator. USPSA targets at 5, 15, and 25 yards. Draw two shots on each near to far or far to near your choice. You can go one way and stop or go one way, reload, and go the other way.

After running it several times with a Shadow 2 with optic I switched to a CZ P-10F with irons and ran the drill in virtually the same hit factor by using target focus at all three distances. Now mind you this was open targets, but still......

The key was that you ran it before shooting it with irons. Let's be honest, we've all run accelerator a lot. Short of sight offset, you're going to run it the same from platform to platform.

 

[308pirate]

The key was that you ran it before shooting it with irons. Let's be honest, we've all run accelerator a lot. Short of sight offset, you're going to run it the same from platform to platform.

Well, maybe, yeah. But the point was that using irons with target focus on easy targets was virtually as fast as using a dot even 25 yards away.

Where the dot pulls away is that it makes target focus shooting on all targets easier at first, and it's much easier when shooting things like fast movers or tight partials at distance.

I might dust off that P-10F and shoot production from time to time just for fun.

 

[SanPatHogger]

I'll disagree that it's a "haunted house." And I think you'll find that besides the general consensus against the cheap optic, you'll also find a consensus that eschews the rear sight / dovetail type mounts. They are not as stable, and they place the optic fairly high up off the slide (compared to an optic mounted into a milled slide).

You find decent milled slides for as low as $145:

17 Slides – 80P Builder

80pbuilder.com

Looks like a nice clean build. Your first? Good job in any case. I find my P80 builds to be as reliable and accurate as factory.

View attachment 8236540

Maybe haunted house is the wrong analogy, I just think it's a funny saying. Maybe hanging a chandelier in a double wide would be more appropriate. I bought the frame just because FJB. I'm really not even a huge Glock fan. But I bought it so I had to do something with it.
There's a litte local match in Corpus on Sunday, I'm going to beat it up and see if I can get it to fail. A buddy who runs another match is going to bring his G19 carry optics gun for e to try out. He's got a red dot mounted in the rear sight dovetail and says its good. I'd like to see it in person.
Also, my wife told me I have $1,100 of fun/gun money. Iwant to take a class down at Rifles only. Then I'd have $700 left for a slide and optic.
And yes, this is my first P80, but I've done a few ARs with 80% lowers.
I actually kind of like the trigger. It's whatever comes in a stockish Brownells parts kit. But it feels nice for a striker gun.

 

[SanPatHogger]

I really like this style slide. This one is $175. Leaves $500 for an optic.
Holy shit. That more tha doubles what I've got into this thing now.
I guess this hobby is way better than women and drugs though. Cheaper and less trouble.

 

[Racer88]

I really like this style slide. This one is $175. Leaves $500 for an optic.
Holy shit. That more tha doubles what I've got into this thing now.
I guess this hobby is way better than women and drugs though. Cheaper and less trouble.

View attachment 8238407

That looks like a Rock Slide. Do NOT buy / use it. They've had a lot of problems with their heat treat of the metal, resulting in slides that are splitting and peeling like a banana. This was documented well here. <-- With photos of split slides. The author has requested it not be copy-pasted anywhere else.

BTW, all my P80 builds were ultimately more expensive than a factory Glock. You don't build P80s to save money. They are almost always more expensive. Though, if you work at it, you can build one for less.

For a quality slide for reasonable money, look at 80PBuilders.com or Brownells.com. Which size are you building? G17? G19? G26?

I think a lot of people got in to building because a certain political faction set their sights on the hobby. And I think that's awesome. I got into it similarly. I bought a frame several years ago, and it sat in the safe. I figured maybe some day I'll build it. I just kind of liked knowing I had one. And then... Well... you know what happened! So I dove in. And then I got SUCKED into the vortex! My first build cost more than double a factory Glock! Ha! But it's cool as shit and it's been flawless... not a single malfunction with 2,200 rounds through it.

Take your time with your build. Enjoy the journey. Do your homework.

 

[Racer88]

"On deck" is this guy... I'm going to call it "Big Blue." A G17L clone.

Or maybe this one. It's a 940CL frame, which is a G17 on top with a G19 size grip.

 

[SanPatHogger]

The picture I put up is of a Kineti-tech. Says they are from Florida. It's a 17.
I'm not rushing. I'm going to run it like this a little bit and see what breaks and fails.

For Glock 17 a Stripped Slide Black GEN 3 RMR Raptor and Lightning cut USA MADE | eBay

Trijicon RMR. Swampfox Liberty RMR 1×22. Swampfox Justice RMR 1×27. GLOCK does not warrant or represent that this product is compatible with GLOCK pistols. GLOCK SLIDES GLOCK TRIGGERS GLOCK PARTS. Custom Glock Slide by:Kineti-tech.

www.ebay.com

 

[Racer88]

The picture I put up is of a Kineti-tech. Says they are from Florida. It's a 17.
I'm not rushing. I'm going to run it like this a little bit and see what breaks and fails.

For Glock 17 a Stripped Slide Black GEN 3 RMR Raptor and Lightning cut USA MADE | eBay

Trijicon RMR. Swampfox Liberty RMR 1×22. Swampfox Justice RMR 1×27. GLOCK does not warrant or represent that this product is compatible with GLOCK pistols. GLOCK SLIDES GLOCK TRIGGERS GLOCK PARTS. Custom Glock Slide by:Kineti-tech.

www.ebay.com

I had not heard of Kineti-tech. While there are many many dealers, distributors, and manufacturers of Glock-compatible slides... I obviously can't keep up with them. However, with my deep dive into this hobby, I had not heard of them until now.

It sure LOOKS like a Rock Slide. And there are multiple slide brands out there that are made by the same centralized manufacturer. A quick search yielded this thread:


Mind you... it's reddit. So not an authoritative source. So, for what it's worth, check it out.

I will say this... if you get that slide, just monitor it closely for cracks.

 

[Racer88]

The picture I put up is of a Kineti-tech. Says they are from Florida. It's a 17.
I'm not rushing. I'm going to run it like this a little bit and see what breaks and fails.

For Glock 17 a Stripped Slide Black GEN 3 RMR Raptor and Lightning cut USA MADE | eBay

Trijicon RMR. Swampfox Liberty RMR 1×22. Swampfox Justice RMR 1×27. GLOCK does not warrant or represent that this product is compatible with GLOCK pistols. GLOCK SLIDES GLOCK TRIGGERS GLOCK PARTS. Custom Glock Slide by:Kineti-tech.

www.ebay.com

Hmmm... diving in a bit. This is from the ebay listing. Note the different spelling of the brand. They left out the "i." I think this is an independent seller named, "Glock Stuff by KINET-TECH." eBay can harbor some dubious sellers. So beware. Or it could be legit and a typo. But the price is a lot lower than what is on Kineti-Tech's website.

Also... note that the Kineti-Tech (with an "i") slides on their own website START at $258.

Slides for Glock by Kinetitech

Custom glock 17 slides from Kineti-Tech

kineti-tech.com

And that slide you're looking at (for a G17) is $305.

GLOCK 17 PATTERN SLIDE STYLE #8A COMPLETE ASSEMBLY WITH BLACK BARREL RMR CUT

Glock Slides, Glock triggers, Shrouds for AR 15, Saiga 12, Smith & Wesson 15 /22 and many others. All Kineti-tech barrel shrouds are mil spec anodized. Our Saiga and AR 15 shrouds are the most sought after barrels shrouds on the market.

kineti-tech.com

 

[SanPatHogger]

Hmmm... diving in a bit. This is from the ebay listing. Note the different spelling of the brand. They left out the "i." I think this is an independent seller named, "Glock Stuff by KINET-TECH." eBay can harbor some dubious sellers. So beware. Or it could be legit and a typo. But the price is a lot lower than what is on Kineti-Tech's website.

View attachment 8238576


Also... note that the Kineti-Tech (with an "i") slides on their own website START at $258.

Slides for Glock by Kinetitech

Custom glock 17 slides from Kineti-Tech

kineti-tech.com

And that slide you're looking at (for a G17) is $305.

GLOCK 17 PATTERN SLIDE STYLE #8A COMPLETE ASSEMBLY WITH BLACK BARREL RMR CUT

Glock Slides, Glock triggers, Shrouds for AR 15, Saiga 12, Smith & Wesson 15 /22 and many others. All Kineti-tech barrel shrouds are mil spec anodized. Our Saiga and AR 15 shrouds are the most sought after barrels shrouds on the market.

kineti-tech.com

That's weird. Click on the ebay link I put up and the seller is different. And it's for a stripped slide. The one for $305 has a barrel and is a complete assembly and looks to have a metal guide rod with a screw in the end. $332 gets you a threaded barrel. Seems like a good deal.

EDIT
I clicked on "visit store" and got to the page you show.
The stripped slide on their site is $225. On ebay is $175. So not as big a difference as $305

Thank you for looking out.

 

[Racer88]

That's weird. Click on the ebay link I put up and the seller is different. And it's for a stripped slide. The one for $305 has a barrel and is a complete assembly and looks to have a metal guide rod with a screw in the end. $332 gets you a threaded barrel. Seems like a good deal.

EDIT
I clicked on "visit store" and got to the page you show.
The stripped slide on their site is $225. On ebay is $175. So not as big a difference as $305

Thank you for looking out.

Ah, I wasn't paying close attention to that. Whoops! Yeah... a barrel and parts assembled makes a difference.

 

[John?]

@SanPatHogger

There’s a fair amount of good advice in this post. I’ll add my 2 centavos.

A couple years ago I wanted to try out a side mounted MRDS. I bought a Holosun because it was an inexpensive entry point and I wasn’t sure that I would like it. The optic performed without issue. No complaints. I didn’t care for the EOTech style circle dot, so I quit using it. As I gained some experience with the dot (and shooting other people’s gear) I discovered that I like bigger dots better. I now have a 5 MOA SRO. It’s a good bit of kit. If a bigger dot were available in the SRO I would use it. I also have a DPP, but I don’t recommend them or the Burris Fast Fire (and I use Burris scopes on the ranch rifles with complete satisfaction.)

The SRO can be had on sale for about $100 more than Holosun. Mine was less than $450.

Don’t skimp on your optic. Holosun will do if you like a small dot. The SRO is better for me.

Don’t kludge a dovetail mount. It’s more trouble than it’s worth. Cheap is just frustrating. Once you’ve got good kit you’ll never miss the money. Optics are way cheaper than ammunition or reloading components if you shoot much at all.

PS. I’m old. I grew up with iron sighted pistols and Bullseye shooting. In my 40s we started using UltraDots on wad guns. My how times have changed. So many more options available to pistol shooters. Action pistol games are much more entertaining these days too!

Take a look at what USPSA shooters are using when you go to a match.

 

[SanPatHogger]

Ladies and gentleman of the hide. And the pirate.
Part of me wants to buy one and send it to 308pirate just as a joke.

I present to you the MAGIC WHALE

 

[Zolar]

I just bought a RMR for a Glock 34…and then found out I have to get the slide machined for it to be mounted.
It was an impulse purchase, it popped up for sale on another forum at a great price and I snagged it as quick as I saw the ad.
I bought the site from a cop, he said he bought it for his service gun before the department furnished them to everybody that wanted one. He said he the entire department is running these and they love them.

 

[SanPatHogger]

I bought one. I' not proud of it, but it lights up and mounts to the pistol. I'm going to beat on it some and it it breaks I have lost nothing.
Been practicing my draw and like the pirate said, I'm a sloppy mess. But I have gotten much better. The red dot seemed harder to get on target with at first, but now I'm on target way faster and much more consistent. I think just as a training device it's worth it.
Also, it is everything everybody said not to get. 3 moa red dot and mounts in the rear sight slot. But for $47 with the mount it will get beat on.
It's not sighted in and no rounds through it yet. My plan is to find out what I like and do not like, then make changes. I already know I want a way bigger window, and I want a cut slide so it sits lower.
When I'm done with it I'll either give it to my friends kids to play with or if it's broken I'll throw it away.

Holographic Red Dot Sight 3.5 MOA Reflex Optics Scope 20mm Rail for Rifle Glock | eBay

M1 Red Dot Sight 3.5 MOA Reflex Optics Sight Holographic Glock Scope. M1 red dot reflex shotgun sight, used for Airsoft outdoor shooting holographic Glock mount. Crosshair: 3.5 MOA red dot (red dot only).

www.ebay.com

 

[Racer88]

I bought one. I' not proud of it, but it lights up and mounts to the pistol. I'm going to beat on it some and it it breaks I have lost nothing.
Been practicing my draw and like the pirate said, I'm a sloppy mess. But I have gotten much better. The red dot seemed harder to get on target with at first, but now I'm on target way faster and much more consistent. I think just as a training device it's worth it.
Also, it is everything everybody said not to get. 3 moa red dot and mounts in the rear sight slot. But for $47 with the mount it will get beat on.
It's not sighted in and no rounds through it yet. My plan is to find out what I like and do not like, then make changes. I already know I want a way bigger window, and I want a cut slide so it sits lower.
When I'm done with it I'll either give it to my friends kids to play with or if it's broken I'll throw it away.

Holographic Red Dot Sight 3.5 MOA Reflex Optics Scope 20mm Rail for Rifle Glock | eBay

M1 Red Dot Sight 3.5 MOA Reflex Optics Sight Holographic Glock Scope. M1 red dot reflex shotgun sight, used for Airsoft outdoor shooting holographic Glock mount. Crosshair: 3.5 MOA red dot (red dot only).

www.ebay.com

My guess is that it will not hold zero for even a single range session... and that's even if the dot stays illuminated after a few shots.

 

[Racer88]

I just noticed this. LOL!

In other words, if our piece of shit doesn't work... We suggest you order something that's not a piece of shit. LOL!

 

[pmclaine]

@308pirate is going to shit himself, perhaps he has just asked to be banned before commenting.

 

[308pirate]

@308pirate is going to shit himself, perhaps he has just asked to be banned before commenting.

This thread delivers

 

[308pirate]

My guess is that it will not hold zero for even a single range session... and that's even if the dot stays illuminated after a few shots.

You know for 47 bucks it's not a bad deal if it serves the purpose of showing you what a dot on a pistol looks like.

Plus I like your sense of humor

 

[Racer88]

You know for 47 bucks it's not a bad deal if it serves the purpose of showing you what a dot on a pistol looks like.

Plus I like your sense of humor

Haha... I wasn't trying to be funny! I was predicting the future!

 

[Scopeye]

So I put together a P80 and I'm thinking about putting a red dot on it. Problem is I don't know much about them and what makes one better than the other. I have a super cheap one on my AR9 that my dad gave me because he had a couple extras. I think I would like to run this gun in carry optics or limited optics in the small local USPSA match. I'll probably hogs with it too. Basically I saw this picture and I really like how this looks. Looks to be a Swampfox King slayer. Says it is a 3moa dot. I read in the new firearms news that the larger the dot the better... But better why? I don't know what my budget should be, I've seen super cheap amazon dots for less than $40, but lately I've grown fond of my scopes that cost a little more. The Swampfox ones run from $189 to $350. I don't think I want one of the enclosed cube looking ones.
Also.... Any one of you ever cut your own slide for an optic?
View attachment 8232779

I strongly recommend buying a red dot sight that has a no questions asked hassle free lifetime warranty such as the Burris Fast fire 3 or 4 that can be found in sale if you do a search and compare prices. If you buy from brands that don't have a real lifetime warranty, you're simply buying disposable throw away products especially of the companies don't even offer to repair them past their short term warranty periods even if customers offer to pay out of pocket for repairs past their warranty such as SIG and Bushnell just to name two examples. There may be companies that actually repair their electronics past their short term warranty period but you will end up paying even more money for that item in the end with all costs added up.

Vortex has hands down THE BEST Lifetime Warranty in the business and even pays for your return shipping costs when you need warranty via prepaid shipping label.

Products may have a misleading "LIFETIME WARRANTY" as a selling gimmick to hook customers into buying their products but a lot of companies don't even include their electronics as part of their lifetime warranty such as SIG and Bushnell and Trijicon (I do not know of Trijicon repairs electronics past their 5 year from date of manufacture warranty and how much it will actually cost). I do know Nightforce repairs out of warranty electronics in their scopes past their 5 year warranty but people still think they have a real lifetime warranty but in fact, does not include their electronics. They have been known to fix electronics past their warranty for free but I honestly don't know if it's a regular thing they do for "everyone" or if it's due to certain customers making a big fuss over it on the internet.

When people choose to buy whatever brand they want, it's mandatory to at least know what their actual warranty covers and if they have real lifetime warranty including their electronics so they aren't too surprised if and when they themselves chose to buy disposable throw away products with short term warranties that the companies won't even bother to fix past their expiration dates.

I get it, it's business where profits matter and selling disposable throw away goods with limited short term 1 to 5 year warranties make them a lot of money when their customers have to keep on buying new ones every so often.

What really bugs the hell out of me is reviewers stating lifetime warranty on stuff their review but intentionally witheld the fact their electronics aren't part of the lifetime warranty.

 

[Racer88]

I strongly recommend buying a red dot sight that has a no questions asked hassle free lifetime warranty such as the Burris Fast fire 3 or 4 that can be found in sale if you do a search and compare prices. If you buy from brands that don't have a real lifetime warranty, you're simply buying disposable throw away products especially of the companies don't even offer to repair them past their short term warranty periods even if customers offer to pay out of pocket for repairs past their warranty such as SIG and Bushnell just to name two examples. There may be companies that actually repair their electronics past their short term warranty period but you will end up paying even more money for that item in the end with all costs added up.

Vortex has hands down THE BEST Lifetime Warranty in the business and even pays for your return shipping costs when you need warranty via prepaid shipping label.

Products may have a misleading "LIFETIME WARRANTY" as a selling gimmick to hook customers into buying their products but a lot of companies don't even include their electronics as part of their lifetime warranty such as SIG and Bushnell and Trijicon (I do not know of Trijicon repairs electronics past their 5 year from date of manufacture warranty and how much it will actually cost). I do know Nightforce repairs out of warranty electronics in their scopes past their 5 year warranty but people still think they have a real lifetime warranty but in fact, does not include their electronics. They have been known to fix electronics past their warranty for free but I honestly don't know if it's a regular thing they do for "everyone" or if it's due to certain customers making a big fuss over it on the internet.

When people choose to buy whatever brand they want, it's mandatory to at least know what their actual warranty covers and if they have real lifetime warranty including their electronics so they aren't too surprised if and when they themselves chose to buy disposable throw away products with short term warranties that the companies won't even bother to fix past their expiration dates.

I get it, it's business where profits matter and selling disposable throw away goods with limited short term 1 to 5 year warranties make them a lot of money when their customers have to keep on buying new ones every so often.

What really bugs the hell out of me is reviewers stating lifetime warranty on stuff their review but intentionally witheld the fact their electronics aren't part of the lifetime warranty.

I don't care about "lifetime warranties." To me, that's a marketing ploy and rather unimportant. I do care about general reputation for durability. But most important is that the item has the FEATURES and usability that I seek. So what, if I wear it out in 10 years... I'll buy another. If the item happens to have a "lifetime warranty" AND it has the FEATURES I want.... Yippee.

But the FIRST thing I'm looking for is the right combination of features and how it works in my hands.

I don't care to purchase an item that has a "lifetime warranty" if it doesn't have the features I want or do what I want it to do.

 

[LeftyJason]

I don't care about "lifetime warranties." To me, that's a marketing ploy and rather unimportant. I do care about general reputation for durability. But most important is that the item has the FEATURES and usability that I seek. So what, if I wear it out in 10 years... I'll buy another. If the item happens to have a "lifetime warranty" AND it has the FEATURES I want.... Yippee.

But the FIRST thing I'm looking for is the right combination of features and how it works in my hands.

I don't care to purchase an item that has a "lifetime warranty" if it doesn't have the features I want or do what I want it to do.

Vortex please come out with a closed emitter green dot defender.

 

[Scopeye]

I don't care about "lifetime warranties." To me, that's a marketing ploy and rather unimportant. I do care about general reputation for durability. But most important is that the item has the FEATURES and usability that I seek. So what, if I wear it out in 10 years... I'll buy another. If the item happens to have a "lifetime warranty" AND it has the FEATURES I want.... Yippee.

But the FIRST thing I'm looking for is the right combination of features and how it works in my hands.

I don't care to purchase an item that has a "lifetime warranty" if it doesn't have the features I want or do what I want it to do.

Go check out SIG brand of electronics if you don't care about not having a real lifetime warranty and really prefer to just throw them away after they break and keep on buying new ones.

 

[Racer88]

Go check out SIG brand of electronics if you don't care about not having a real lifetime warranty and really prefer to just throw them away after they break and keep on buying new ones.

No thanks. I like my Holosuns when it comes to functionality / utility and value. I also have a Trijicon RMR (my first pistol optic).

A friend had a Sig Romeo on his pistol. On the brightest setting, I could barely see the reticle at the outdoor range with a cover over us. After he tried my pistol with the Holosun, he dumped the Sig Romeo and got a Holosun.

 

[308pirate]

Go check out SIG brand of electronics if you don't care about not having a real lifetime warranty and really prefer to just throw them away after they break and keep on buying new ones.

I'm a very active USPSA competitor. Right now the two most popular divisions are for pistols with slide mounted optics. Carry Optics and Limited Optics together make up easily 75% of all shooters in the sport.

USPSA shooters as a group are the hardest users of pistol optics in the country. Not even the military fires as many rounds through handguns as we do. There isnt a LE agency in the world that puts as much ammo through optic equipped pistols.

Nobody who is remotely serious in the sport uses a Vortex product. SIG and Trijicon are the two most popular with Holosun a distant third and everything else a statistical nothing.

 

[308pirate]

No thanks. I like my Holosuns when it comes to functionality / utility and value. I also have a Trijicon RMR (my first pistol optic).

A friend had a Sig Romeo on his pistol. On the brightest setting, I could barely see the reticle at the outdoor range with a cover over us. After he tried my pistol with the Holosun, he dumped the Sig Romeo and got a Holosun.

LOL if you want a bright reticle get a C-More RTS2. Holy shit they are nuclear bright.

On top of that they're made with dot sizes from 3 to 12 moa because choices.

I switched my main comp gun from a 5 moa SRO to a 10 moa RTS2 and love it. It's an easy button.

 

[308pirate]

I don't care to purchase an item that has a "lifetime warranty" if it doesn't have the features I want or do what I want it to dodo.

That or they break every 1000 rounds.......

 

[Racer88]

LOL if you want a bright reticle get a C-More RTS2. Holy shit they are nuclear bright.

I want to be able to SEE the reticle, of course. I don't necessarily need "nuclear bright." But the Sig Romeo was quite dim, even on the highest setting, when viewed outdoors against a target in the sun with the shooter in the shade under a roof.

My Holosun green is perfectly visible on auto-bright outdoors.

 

[308pirate]

I want to be able to SEE the reticle, of course. I don't necessarily need "nuclear bright." But the Sig Romeo was quite dim, even on the highest setting, when viewed outdoors against a target in the sun with the shooter in the shade under a roof.

My Holosun green is perfectly visible on auto-bright outdoors.

Point being there isn't a daylight situation in which the RTS2 doesn't deliver sufficient brightness.

Because it was designed specifically to be a sport shooting optic its emitter is more powerful than any Trijicon or Holosun that I've owned before. It doesn't have NV settings either. Its dimmest setting is almost too bright in my very well lit finished basement dry fire dojo.

 

[Racer88]

That or they break every 1000 rounds.......

After this past Saturday, my Holosun on my EDC has over 7,000 rounds through it. I will also admit that it's smacked a few door jambs and furniture while on my hip in the OWB holster. It has held zero perfectly. Zero problems. And I really like the "chevron" reticle.

 

[Racer88]

Its dimmest setting is almost too bright in my very well lit finished basement dry fire dojo.

Yeah... when I'm at the indoor range, the bright light over the shooting stall causes the Holosun reticle to be too bright (on auto-level) against the target downrange. So, I switch to manual and crank it down a bit.

 

[308pirate]

After this past Saturday, my Holosun on my EDC has over 7,000 rounds through it. I will also admit that it's smacked a few door jambs and furniture while on my hip in the OWB holster. It has held zero perfectly. Zero problems. And I really like the "chevron" reticle.

I have about double that in my highest use SRO and RMR also trouble free. Holosuns are rugged I'll give ghem that.

My RTS2 died after about 1000 rounds, emitter would go out intermittently. Sent it back and came back with the emitter module replaced in 2 weeks. It's been trouble free since then. It's not designed as a duty/self defense optic so I dont have the same expectations as I do of my Trijicons.

 

[Racer88]

I have about double that in my highest use SRO and RMR also trouble free. Holosuns are rugged I'll give ghem that.

I should have added that the 7k rounds are within a year's time. Just for context.

Very happy with this rig.

 

[308pirate]

I should have added that the 7k rounds are within a year's time. Just for context.
View attachment 8255328

Very happy with this rig.

I'll average 12k rounds through my USPSA CO pistol through the outdoor season (March through November). Plus probably 500 a month Nov to early March in indoor matches and practice.

 

[Racer88]

I'll average 12k rounds through my USPSA CO pistol through the outdoor season (March through November). Plus probably 500 a month Nov to early March in indoor matches and practice.

Well, you have a good "excuse!" LOL! I don't compete. I just like to shoot! Maybe too much!

During the covid hysteria, I went down the P80 building rabbit hole. So, lots of testing and enjoying my builds has added up to a relatively high round count for me.

 

[308pirate]

I just like to shoot! Maybe too much

Too much? Impossible

 

[Cascade Hemi]

I have a 6 MOA Romeo3 XL. It is brighty bright well below the highest setting. The RTS2 is made in the same place as the Romeo3 line and shares the same internals. I strongly dislike 2 MOA RDS on pistols.

 

[308pirate]

I have a 6 MOA Romeo3 XL. It is brighty bright well below the highest setting. The RTS2 is made in the same place as the Romeo3 line and shares the same internals. I strongly dislike 2 MOA RDS on pistols.

There's quite a few red dots that are made on the same platform by the same Japanese contract manufacturer that makes the RTS2. There are several features that are identical if you know what to look for.

Im almost certain that the Romeo 3 and 3XL, FTP Alpha, Kahles Helia RD, and Delta Stryker Reflex are all mechanically, optically, and electronically the same as the RTS2 even if externally they look different.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

There's quite a few red dots that are made on the same platform by the same Japanese contract manufacturer that makes the RTS2. There are several features that are identical if you know what to look for.

Im almost certain that the Romeo 3 and 3XL, FTP Alpha, Kahles Helia RD, and Delta Stryker Reflex are all mechanically, optically, and electronically the same as the RTS2 even if externally they look different.

I run the XL on an open gun. They get pretty mediocre reviews on durability. I would not put one on a carry gun. My open gun is far easier on the optic than a slide mounted platform. Ignoring durability, I like how the XL handles and looks. The buttons are a known issue too.

I would choose a Holosun 507Comp over the Romeo3 and RTS2 if you don't mind the 2 MOA dot. Holosun makes a much more durable sight. My experience with Holosun over 5 different sights has been perfect.

 

[308pirate]

I run the XL on an open gun. They get pretty mediocre reviews on durability. I would not put one on a carry gun. My open gun is far easier on the optic than a slide mounted platform. Ignoring durability, I like how the XL handles and looks. The buttons are a known issue too.

I would choose a Holosun 507Comp over the Romeo3 and RTS2 if you don't mind the 2 MOA dot. Holosun makes a much more durable sight. My experience with Holosun over 5 different sights has been perfect.

Up until this summer I've been a 100% Trijicon user. SRO for comp guns and RMR for carry.

I bought the RTS2 because it comes with dot size choices unavailable anywhere else. Its emitter died early on but came back repaired solid. If it fails again I will have it repaired again then I'll sell it and go back to an SRO.

The SRO maxes out at 5 moa. My RTS is 10 moa and I find that superior in real world usage.

I had a Holosun. Notice the past tense. Won't buy one again. They do nothing better than Trijicon products and do several thing worse. Not to mention where they are made.