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I trusted the local gunsmith for my pin and weld
- Thread starter Chicory01
- Start date
I don't weld, but would have figured out a way to do it better than he did..........Sheeesh, that is sheer butchery and on such an expensive rifle.
What a flipping shame.
I respect your decision not to post his name publicly too.
What a flipping shame.
I respect your decision not to post his name publicly too.
What did you say to the gunsmith when you picked it up ? What was his reply ? These kind of things should be addressed right at the shop the moment you picked it up and inspected the rifle. MD
Not completely ruined. Looks bad, but can be fixed. Any competent machinist can clean that up in the lathe. It might need a bit more heliarc weld in a spot or two. Sometimes it is hard to find the Right Guy to get something done. More often than not it winds up being Me, but it took years of BooBoos to figure that out. Snatch that barrel out and go find that guy. He is probably right around there in your community and would love to help you out.
What exactly did you pay him to do? Looking at the photos, did he do all the work seen in the photos? If so the weld and grinding/shaping doesn't look all that bad. All welding that isn't cleaned up looks similar. If he used gas slag will be on it as well.
"Finishing" is another story, did you pay him to refinish the muzzle device and barrel?
Are you the one who put Rocksett on the threads and then torqued it down and then took it to him in that condition and said "pin and weld it?" Rocksett should have never been used. I would have never expected a customer to have used Rocksett on a muzzle device/barrel he/she wanted pinned and welded. Did he even know there was Rocksett on the threads, or did he find out after he applied heat and it dripped down onto the barrel? Getting rid of the stuff is time consuming and wouldn't be part of a standard charge for pin and welding.
Either would refinishing. Refinishing would normally include cleaning up the part, removal of old finish, and refinishing. If the person doing the refinishing sees something that will take more time or not turn out right he'll call it to your attention and give you a quote for the extra work. Refinished properly you'd never know there was a problem.
Looking at this I suspect there is a gap between the gunsmith and the customer in what is being paid for and what you expected. Expectations need to be managed by both parties. At this point I'd take it to someone who can clean it up and reapply the desired finish, or use this misunderstanding 5o upgrade your finish.
Good luck with this.
Holy crap reminds me of a similar situation. I trusted a local guy ONCE. He ruined my grandfathers shotgun. I got my money back after being a total Karen but it didnt salvage my grandfathers shotgun. Sorry this happened to you.
Theres a special place in hell for incompetence like this.
Didnt t
didnt think it would be hard to mount a red dot...Holy crap reminds me of a similar situation. I trusted a local guy ONCE. He ruined my grandfathers shotgun. I got my money back after being a total Karen but it didnt salvage my grandfathers shotgun. Sorry this happened to you.
Theres a special place in hell for incompetence like this.
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I am absolutely amazed that any gunsmith would let that garbage leave their shop.
And you are doing no one a favor by not revealing his identity. If he was willing to take your money and let that out the door,. then he was willing to have his name attached to the work. If he didn't want his name attached to it in public, then he should have not let it leave his shop.
Here's my guy. Did fantastic.
@flyfisherman246 Is the fucking man. Misery Custom Rifles
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14.5 Bartlein 223 wylde pin/weld Surefire SFMB. USMC sniper turned machinist/gunsmiff. Did some contractor shit with him overseas. Much Solid. So tactical. More gooder
@TacticalTaco
cosmetic damage. Shoot the snot out of the barrel and enjoy it. Agreed no more work from that gunsmith. It looks shitty but I doubt he actually owes you a new barrel. And it is not really worth the cost of having the barrel cut, re-threaded, form 1 tax stamp, etc. To me that sounds like a separate rifle project.
cosmetic damage. Shoot the snot out of the barrel and enjoy it. Agreed no more work from that gunsmith. It looks shitty but I doubt he actually owes you a new barrel. And it is not really worth the cost of having the barrel cut, re-threaded, form 1 tax stamp, etc. To me that sounds like a separate rifle project.
Looks like a mig weld, he must of not known just to fill the hole for about a second. Its just a pin job , your not welding on an axle bracket.
To clarify, there is a gas relief port on the bottom of the muzzle brake to be used with the KAC can. The gas port on the barrel was never touched.
I agree however, a lot of this is on me for not knowing more about pin and weld jobs before trusting someone with my equipment. Lesson learned the hard way.
That’s shit work…no doubt about it.
Before I started doing silver solder (and before I had my 4 SBR’d lower, LoL), I had one pinned, but the smith broke a drill bit in the flash hider (OG AAC 51T muzzle device…very hard metal) and when he re-drilled, he slightly egged out the hole. The TIG spot pretty much covered it, but you could see it wasn’t perfectly round if you looked closely. I honestly wouldn’t have noticed if he didn’t point it out.
When I went to pick it up he said “no charge” and if I wasn’t happy he’d buy that one from me / pay for a new barrel and muzzle device. It shot just fine though, and that gun was getting a rattle can paint job anyway, so I told him no worries, and that I appreciated his integrity.
edit: found a pic, and it’s pretty low resolution, but even if it wasn’t I don’t think you’d see the blemish under the paint. I know where it is though…look for that brighter ‘spot’ in the tan stripe on the bottom of the flash hider, the pin is in the middle of that little dark stripe under that:
edit two: just found another. Ironically, the paint’s worn off from the heat and carbon blast from shooting suppressed (my hearing’s bad enough as it is, so I shoot almost 100% suppressed to save what I have)…still don’t notice the blemish unless you’re really looking for it:
That barrel’s still going strong on one of my brother’s ARs now. On it’s second paint scheme, and you still don’t notice the less than perfect spot weld under the paint.
I’d look at it this way, he should at least return what you paid for that hack work, but if it shoots well, don’t sweat it. Clean up the exterior with a wire wheel and paint it…or Cerakote the whole thing if you want it to look spiffy. To me they’re tools…and pretty much all the tools I actually use for work have scratches or wear marks. Well, not my reloading gear or optics, but yeah…I think you get the idea.
I usually try to get a ding or scratch on my ARs right away…takes the pressure off so I don’t sweat actually using them out in the brush. If this is a safe queen/trophy gun I’d raise holy hell…and yes I have some of those too…but if it’s a gun you plan to use in the field, I wouldn’t lose sleep over cosmetic blemishes.
Edit: I just looked closer at pic #3… He clearly used way too much heat, but as long as it shoots fine, tell him to cover the cost of Cerakoting the whole thing and you should be gtg.
Before I started doing silver solder (and before I had my 4 SBR’d lower, LoL), I had one pinned, but the smith broke a drill bit in the flash hider (OG AAC 51T muzzle device…very hard metal) and when he re-drilled, he slightly egged out the hole. The TIG spot pretty much covered it, but you could see it wasn’t perfectly round if you looked closely. I honestly wouldn’t have noticed if he didn’t point it out.
When I went to pick it up he said “no charge” and if I wasn’t happy he’d buy that one from me / pay for a new barrel and muzzle device. It shot just fine though, and that gun was getting a rattle can paint job anyway, so I told him no worries, and that I appreciated his integrity.
edit: found a pic, and it’s pretty low resolution, but even if it wasn’t I don’t think you’d see the blemish under the paint. I know where it is though…look for that brighter ‘spot’ in the tan stripe on the bottom of the flash hider, the pin is in the middle of that little dark stripe under that:
edit two: just found another. Ironically, the paint’s worn off from the heat and carbon blast from shooting suppressed (my hearing’s bad enough as it is, so I shoot almost 100% suppressed to save what I have)…still don’t notice the blemish unless you’re really looking for it:
That barrel’s still going strong on one of my brother’s ARs now. On it’s second paint scheme, and you still don’t notice the less than perfect spot weld under the paint.
I’d look at it this way, he should at least return what you paid for that hack work, but if it shoots well, don’t sweat it. Clean up the exterior with a wire wheel and paint it…or Cerakote the whole thing if you want it to look spiffy. To me they’re tools…and pretty much all the tools I actually use for work have scratches or wear marks. Well, not my reloading gear or optics, but yeah…I think you get the idea.
I usually try to get a ding or scratch on my ARs right away…takes the pressure off so I don’t sweat actually using them out in the brush. If this is a safe queen/trophy gun I’d raise holy hell…and yes I have some of those too…but if it’s a gun you plan to use in the field, I wouldn’t lose sleep over cosmetic blemishes.
Edit: I just looked closer at pic #3… He clearly used way too much heat, but as long as it shoots fine, tell him to cover the cost of Cerakoting the whole thing and you should be gtg.
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First pin weld job I'd done and I've never taken a welding class. I was pissed that there was some contamination in it. Could have massaged it, but I like it to be shallow enough to lightly grind and remove the accessory in the future.
This gun shot sub 3/4 moa at 100 w/ a 14.5" barrel after the pin job.
This gun shot sub 3/4 moa at 100 w/ a 14.5" barrel after the pin job.
Ouch! That bites, no need to get heat in the barrel at all. Shouldn't need any more than this.
Nah, blind kid with no arms used his feet
ACC 3 prong was the first. Sig also had the problem many years later but on the MPX. it wasn't as bad though still annoying.
That's what it was.
I got a free MPX with arm brace and sold it, because I'm stupid. Still regret that.
I've learned the hard way myself on using local guys with great reviews...This was a "bedding" job I had done by a local builder. Super nice guy, had a few friends that recommended him, but he completely fucked up this stock. Sent it to SAC and they fixed it up right for me. I never did mention it to the first guy, not sure why. It's just a shame people do "work" like this and think it's acceptable. Before and after pics...
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Did you change actions from first to second bedding job? Those weren't the same rifle action.
ill just leave this here as an example. Super clean? Nah. Super good enough? Fuck yeah.
I always like to get a good puddle of weld flowing so the pin is secured and doesn't fall out.
Pin and weld is such a joke. Just drip some silver solder on the hole and make it "look" welded. If the police are actually testing it to make sure its properly welded you have bigger problems.
Risking a felony, when it can be avoided with something as simple as a pin and weld, is a joke.
Yes actually I did, the same guy that did the bedding job had put together a barreled action for me and chambered the barrel. I was pretty disgusted with the bedding job I ended up selling the barreled action, even though his machine work looked pretty good and the rifle shot pretty well, I just didnt want to pursue the project anymore. The stock was a sentimental piece, was a friend of mine's that passed. Started with a fresh barreled action and sent it all to SAC and they re-bedded to the new action.
I'm not usually a very empathetic person but damn, I'm glad that's not my gun.
Would 100% pass visual. Just to be sure johny law doesnt cut your barrel open and fail your weld you should probably turn it in at the next gun buy back.
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Have you ever actually soldered anything? I doubt it based on your comments.
1) You can't just melt some solder and "drip some silver solder on the hole". It doesn't work that way. Both the solder AND the metal being bonded must be hot to have the solder flow. What you are suggesting will result in a cold joint. That is, a blob of somewhat conformed solder sitting on top of the pin and hole. It won't be bonded, and it won't stay in place. And it won't fool anyone.
2) Solder doesn't look like a weld. Not even a little bit. You would not fool me, or anyone else that has any clue what they are looking at. And this "drip some silver solder" garbage DEFINITELY would not look like a weld. It would look like monkey snot.
3) The only way to get the solder to flow and actually hold the pin in place is to heat everything up above the solder eutectic point. Once you do that, it will flow around the pin, into the hole, and into the threads. Once solder is in the threads, the only way to remove it is to heat it all up again. If you are going to do all of that, then why even bother with the pin in the first place? Just use the other ATF-legal method and solder the device to the barrel, without the pin.
You strike me as one of those dudes who just can't do things the right way. You always have to do something outside of the rules, just to show the Jack-Booted Thugs that they don't really own you. Or some such silliness. You think all this makes you somehow cool and hip. A real rebel. It doesn't.
There are plenty of bullshit things that go on in this society. All of us on here have issues that, some day, will be worth us taking a stand and risking the consequences, because the demands put on us by the authoritarians are so egregious and oppressive. A pin and weld barrel is not one of them.
If faking a pin and weld barrel is how you want to demonstrate to the world that you are a true individualist, a red-blooded American, a real-life rebel without a cause, you go right ahead with your bad self. But there are people on here trying to learn something, people that are new to firearms and don't really know the full legalities of what is being said and discussed. So do us all a favor and stop passing out stupid, ill-informed. uneducated advice that we should all commit felonies over something as lame as a pin and weld barrel. Pick a better fight.
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You actually CAN just simply drip some solder on there if you want.
It literally is physically possible.
It literally is physically possible.
Good thing we're on planet earth which just so happens to have a gravitational field.
Cool speech, to each his own.
I actually braze dissimilar metals as part of my job and have pin and welded several barrels both the correct way and not so correct way. Its a joke, the whole thing is a joke.
Your level of compliance of some arbitrary rule depends on the quality of your weld job?
Whos checking it? How are they checking it? Why are they checking it?
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There is no difference in what you are recommending and what some knuckleheads telling others to go ahead and recore their own suppressors, who is going to know ? Just wrong and for any new guys trying to find good info, this crap sure is not it.
There actually is a difference between dripping silver solder and recoring a suppressor.
Literally two different things.
Ignore. I was wrong.
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surely accuracy before was phenomenalI've learned the hard way myself on using local guys with great reviews...This was a "bedding" job I had done by a local builder. Super nice guy, had a few friends that recommended him, but he completely fucked up this stock. Sent it to SAC and they fixed it up right for me. I never did mention it to the first guy, not sure why. It's just a shame people do "work" like this and think it's acceptable. Before and after pics...
Wrong. You CAN NOT replace ANYTHING inside your suppressor; without an SOT doing the work. Whether F1 or F4, same applies. Distal end caps are gray area, but legal; and mounts/proximal end caps have been labeled as "not suppressor parts". Adding or changing any material inside the can is 100% illegal.
As far as the tube goes; even an SOT can't REPLACE it, without a new stamp. Only chop it down, and salvage what they can. Engraving needs to stay/be intact
Ecco Machine is a legit 02/07/SOT. What he does is totally legal; shame on you for suggesting his work is not. He's an upstanding member of the shooting community
Edit: @LeftyJason we might be saying the same thing; now that I've reread it 3 times......lol
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