I really think that a 6mm bullet on the 6.5 creedmoor brass casing would make a heck of a varmint chambering. Decent brass at a decent price. Not so expensive that it will hurt if you loose one. Very similar to a 6xc or a 6mm 22-250. I am not sure what i will call it but i do think i need to do it!! What will i have to do to make this happen? Will PT&G make me a reamer? Will i have to have two reamers One for the chamber and one to make a FL size die with, or will one reamer do it all? What about a seating die? I have never done anything like this so some input would be great. What do you guys think of this idea? I think it makes since for a serious varmint chambering. lee
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Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
its not the same!! If you call that a 243 then i guess the 6.5 creedmoor is a 260rem. Close, but nope!!!
its not the same!! If you call that a 243 then i guess the 6.5 creedmoor is a 260rem. Close, but nope!!!
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
I wouldnt call that inventing. Its called a wildcat or wildcating?
I wouldnt call that inventing. Its called a wildcat or wildcating?
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
not a bad idea but it will be so close to the 6/250 that it won't be worth it especially since their is a much greater selection of brass for the 22-250, but if you want go ahead call dave kiff at pacific tool and gauge and he will make you a reamer, get some neck bushing dies for the creedmoor and buy a smaller .270 bushing and go for it. I am all for somebody else trying these new ideas.
scott
not a bad idea but it will be so close to the 6/250 that it won't be worth it especially since their is a much greater selection of brass for the 22-250, but if you want go ahead call dave kiff at pacific tool and gauge and he will make you a reamer, get some neck bushing dies for the creedmoor and buy a smaller .270 bushing and go for it. I am all for somebody else trying these new ideas.
scott
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
if there wasn't some sort of tangible benefit for the 6.5 creedmoor over the .260, why was it designed? Surely the same argument for the parent case could be used for the 6 creedmoor as was the 6.5??
DD
if there wasn't some sort of tangible benefit for the 6.5 creedmoor over the .260, why was it designed? Surely the same argument for the parent case could be used for the 6 creedmoor as was the 6.5??
DD
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It already exists. Its called a .243 (or maybe a .243 AI depending on the shoulder). </div></div>
+1 on this, the case dimensions are incredibly similar...
I assumed the reason for the 6.5 projectile was the higher BC...?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It already exists. Its called a .243 (or maybe a .243 AI depending on the shoulder). </div></div>
+1 on this, the case dimensions are incredibly similar...
I assumed the reason for the 6.5 projectile was the higher BC...?
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
Good luck "inventing" anything new, just about everything has been tried in about every way shape and form you can imagine...
I'd stick with a 6mm rem, or a 243, JMHO
Good luck "inventing" anything new, just about everything has been tried in about every way shape and form you can imagine...
I'd stick with a 6mm rem, or a 243, JMHO
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
Ordinary is boring!! I think my brass argument has baring!! Yep there is better brass than the Hornady offerings, but it will cost you more. Hornady brass is better than Remington or Winchester, at least i think so. Your right about me using the word (inventing) not the proper terminology. I like wildcatting better as well. I am no different than any of the rest of us as i am just as ate up with all this as the next guy. I really like my 6.5 Creedmoor, so why not a 6mm version? Or hell why not a 25cal or 22cal version. Like i said, my ideas are based of the Hornady brass. I think it has a real value in the right situations. Basically fellas I am just having some fun!! I will do this if i can and i think i will call it the 6mmGV, (6mm Gardner Varmint) I really like the 75gr v-max bullet. It is by far my favorite coyote killing pill!! So i will buy a barrel with the proper twist designed for this bullet, probably a 10 twist. All i need to do now is find some bushing dies or have a FL die made, and i will also need a seating die. I think a call to hornady will have this covered. This should be fun, Isn't that what its all about!!! Lee
Ordinary is boring!! I think my brass argument has baring!! Yep there is better brass than the Hornady offerings, but it will cost you more. Hornady brass is better than Remington or Winchester, at least i think so. Your right about me using the word (inventing) not the proper terminology. I like wildcatting better as well. I am no different than any of the rest of us as i am just as ate up with all this as the next guy. I really like my 6.5 Creedmoor, so why not a 6mm version? Or hell why not a 25cal or 22cal version. Like i said, my ideas are based of the Hornady brass. I think it has a real value in the right situations. Basically fellas I am just having some fun!! I will do this if i can and i think i will call it the 6mmGV, (6mm Gardner Varmint) I really like the 75gr v-max bullet. It is by far my favorite coyote killing pill!! So i will buy a barrel with the proper twist designed for this bullet, probably a 10 twist. All i need to do now is find some bushing dies or have a FL die made, and i will also need a seating die. I think a call to hornady will have this covered. This should be fun, Isn't that what its all about!!! Lee
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
The idea behind wildcatting a cartrige is to get the bullet to do something that hasn't been done ballisticly before. So before you spend the money to go out and have a reamer made and dies and all the expense of "improving" an existing cartrige, you need to sit down and look at what you are trying to do... Are you trying to get a 6mm bullet to 4,000fps with no recoil? or match a 260 rem but do it with a magnum bolt face? or are you looking to get the energy of a 416 Rigby in a short action???
chances are if you get a good set of ballistic tables and look at the numbers, its probably already been done, and done better and faster then what you are trying to do.
If you want a 6mm screaming and dont care about barrel life, I think the 243WSSM is probably what you need... but be ready to rebarrel after only a couple thousand rounds if you start to push the limits on speed... its known to be a barrel burner.
And while ordinary isnt as cool, its also much less expensive!!
The idea behind wildcatting a cartrige is to get the bullet to do something that hasn't been done ballisticly before. So before you spend the money to go out and have a reamer made and dies and all the expense of "improving" an existing cartrige, you need to sit down and look at what you are trying to do... Are you trying to get a 6mm bullet to 4,000fps with no recoil? or match a 260 rem but do it with a magnum bolt face? or are you looking to get the energy of a 416 Rigby in a short action???
chances are if you get a good set of ballistic tables and look at the numbers, its probably already been done, and done better and faster then what you are trying to do.
If you want a 6mm screaming and dont care about barrel life, I think the 243WSSM is probably what you need... but be ready to rebarrel after only a couple thousand rounds if you start to push the limits on speed... its known to be a barrel burner.
And while ordinary isnt as cool, its also much less expensive!!
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slayer_21420</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good luck "inventing" anything new, just about everything has been tried in about every way shape and form you can imagine...
I'd stick with a 6mm rem, or a 243, JMHO </div></div>
Agreed
To invent a new cartridge worth it weight you'll need to be, or know, a damn good tool and die maker and have a 550 press dedicated to sizing brass for hours on end. I know it sounds fun, but I say let someone else invent cartridges with little to no benefit and then if you decide to use it after it's been made, gooooo ahead.
Hard to beat what's already on the table.
Even Georges new 6mm cartridge. Looks awesome on paper and I'm sure it out shoots the .243, but until brass is readily available and CHEAP, no thanks.
Cant even get primers right now.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slayer_21420</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good luck "inventing" anything new, just about everything has been tried in about every way shape and form you can imagine...
I'd stick with a 6mm rem, or a 243, JMHO </div></div>
Agreed
To invent a new cartridge worth it weight you'll need to be, or know, a damn good tool and die maker and have a 550 press dedicated to sizing brass for hours on end. I know it sounds fun, but I say let someone else invent cartridges with little to no benefit and then if you decide to use it after it's been made, gooooo ahead.
Hard to beat what's already on the table.
Even Georges new 6mm cartridge. Looks awesome on paper and I'm sure it out shoots the .243, but until brass is readily available and CHEAP, no thanks.
Cant even get primers right now.
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
I've done a couple wildcats, one of them is particularly fun to shoot, and it's dirt cheap but it takes a decent amount of time.
We call it the 44 Kunz. COL is the same as a 223, it's made from 30-06 brass and it throws a range of tips from 180gr to 460gr in speeds from 900fps to about 3200 fps. Some custom turned stuff we made broke 3600 fps but it galled the hell out of the barrel with AL bullets.
Range pickup brass, Red Dot and cast lead bullets are what we use for plinking, suppressed work and my dad has dropped several deer with it. We developed it as a drop in replacement to the AR with a 50 Beowulf round in it, but it's essentially a 45-70 that fits in a 223 mag well.
We used several dies we already had on hand to load it up and it works pretty well if you take your time to get things set. Just don't expect to be doing the reloading in a progressive press. It's very time consuming.
My dad cut his own reamer for it to save costs.
I've done a couple wildcats, one of them is particularly fun to shoot, and it's dirt cheap but it takes a decent amount of time.
We call it the 44 Kunz. COL is the same as a 223, it's made from 30-06 brass and it throws a range of tips from 180gr to 460gr in speeds from 900fps to about 3200 fps. Some custom turned stuff we made broke 3600 fps but it galled the hell out of the barrel with AL bullets.
Range pickup brass, Red Dot and cast lead bullets are what we use for plinking, suppressed work and my dad has dropped several deer with it. We developed it as a drop in replacement to the AR with a 50 Beowulf round in it, but it's essentially a 45-70 that fits in a 223 mag well.
We used several dies we already had on hand to load it up and it works pretty well if you take your time to get things set. Just don't expect to be doing the reloading in a progressive press. It's very time consuming.
My dad cut his own reamer for it to save costs.
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
How about a 6x47L? These guys are right there is hardly anything that hasnt been tried yet just look at Kirby Allen.... I did just make up a new wildcat that PTG has never done before which has to say a little bit. It will be based on the 6.5x47L case. Im a big believer in it.
How about a 6x47L? These guys are right there is hardly anything that hasnt been tried yet just look at Kirby Allen.... I did just make up a new wildcat that PTG has never done before which has to say a little bit. It will be based on the 6.5x47L case. Im a big believer in it.
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
We have been shooting the 6.5 x 47 Lapua case necked to 6mm for a year or so. Great cartridge and great brass. Not as cheap as some others at first glance, but when you fire it bunches of times without the primer pocket going away and very little prep work, it looks better all the time. Very accurate also.
We have been shooting the 6.5 x 47 Lapua case necked to 6mm for a year or so. Great cartridge and great brass. Not as cheap as some others at first glance, but when you fire it bunches of times without the primer pocket going away and very little prep work, it looks better all the time. Very accurate also.
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
No thanks on the 243wssm. I havent ever been around one that would shoot worth a hoot. I did see one blow up though!! The hole point is to be different. money is money whether i spend it on my own makings or someone else's. If i dont do what i am wanting to do, then i will spend it on something else similar anyway, so that has no factor to me. I called Dave today but he is out until next Friday. My thoughts are now thinking the creedmoor case would be pretty hot in a 22cal. I bet i could get a 55gr v-max at 4000fps? Not real sure what i will do, maybe nothing?
I just see life a little different i guess. when someone says let someone else do all the leg work. I say Fuck that! Someone has to be creative so why not me! Am i no better than the next guy? Like i said this is all about enjoying our sport and trying something different. maybe its been done before with some slight variation, but not by me. I just really like the 6.5 creedmoor and i think the brass is a perfect balance of quality and cost. There is a point to be made about Lapua brass lasting longer, but that isnt true if i loose it before i get a chance to load it 15 times. I do love the Lapua brass but that stuff is like gold around here, expensive and hard to get. I just got a box of new Hornady 6.5CM brass in the new packaging. I am not sure if it is any harder than the first production run of the creedmoor brass or not. I will have to see. I just really like this case, and i think it would be fun to do something a bit different with it. Hell i used to spend all my money in the taverns and on cheap women and i dont regret it a bit. Rifles and shooting isnt much different, its just another chapter in my life! I have a 6mm dasher in the works so it will be a bit before i decide what i am going to do, but i will keep it posted. Thanks for all the comments!! Lee
No thanks on the 243wssm. I havent ever been around one that would shoot worth a hoot. I did see one blow up though!! The hole point is to be different. money is money whether i spend it on my own makings or someone else's. If i dont do what i am wanting to do, then i will spend it on something else similar anyway, so that has no factor to me. I called Dave today but he is out until next Friday. My thoughts are now thinking the creedmoor case would be pretty hot in a 22cal. I bet i could get a 55gr v-max at 4000fps? Not real sure what i will do, maybe nothing?
I just see life a little different i guess. when someone says let someone else do all the leg work. I say Fuck that! Someone has to be creative so why not me! Am i no better than the next guy? Like i said this is all about enjoying our sport and trying something different. maybe its been done before with some slight variation, but not by me. I just really like the 6.5 creedmoor and i think the brass is a perfect balance of quality and cost. There is a point to be made about Lapua brass lasting longer, but that isnt true if i loose it before i get a chance to load it 15 times. I do love the Lapua brass but that stuff is like gold around here, expensive and hard to get. I just got a box of new Hornady 6.5CM brass in the new packaging. I am not sure if it is any harder than the first production run of the creedmoor brass or not. I will have to see. I just really like this case, and i think it would be fun to do something a bit different with it. Hell i used to spend all my money in the taverns and on cheap women and i dont regret it a bit. Rifles and shooting isnt much different, its just another chapter in my life! I have a 6mm dasher in the works so it will be a bit before i decide what i am going to do, but i will keep it posted. Thanks for all the comments!! Lee
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
I say more power to ya, Lee!
If ir weren't for the wildcatters & benchresters, the state of the art (of ballistics) would still be bogged down at the 1950's level, which wasn't very good.
I say more power to ya, Lee!
If ir weren't for the wildcatters & benchresters, the state of the art (of ballistics) would still be bogged down at the 1950's level, which wasn't very good.
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
You can call Dave Kiff at PTG and he will make what you want and tell you what will work and why.
You will need a chamber reamer and go/no-go guages. Cost for that will be under $200.
Now for the dies. Three possible choices.
1. You can order a resize reamer (another $150)again from PTG and get a smith who makes dies to make a FL size die and send it out for heat treating. He can use the chamber reamer to make a seater either using a 7/8x14 blank or wilson inline die. Cost will normally be $300-500 depending on the smith.
2. Send Neil Jones at Neil Jones Custom Products a copy of your chamber reamer print from PTG. He will make a size die and send it back. It will be NS only initially. Load 5 cases and fire them 3x. Return die and cases to Neil. He will make a custom body insert to put in the original NS die to make it a FL size die with shoulder bump bushings. It will match your chamber perfectly. Neils bushings come down on the shoulder and actually bump it back and not leaving the unsized ring at the neck. Cost will be $175 and 30-60 days for initial die. It wil come with two bushings.
Neil can also make a micro seater. $110 either 7/8x14 or inline your choice.
these are the rolls royce of dies and cannot be beat for matching your chamber and cost.
3. IF (big IF) you are using a parent case that has a Redding body bump die ($25)and the body dimensions do not change much, you can send it along with 10 cases fired 3x to Jim Carstenson at JLC Precision in Iowa. go to www.6mmbr.com and look under "tools" He will make it into a custom honed FL size die for standard bushings. Cost is $80 and two weeks. chamber reamer can be sent for him to make a seater or order from Neil Jones.
BH
You can call Dave Kiff at PTG and he will make what you want and tell you what will work and why.
You will need a chamber reamer and go/no-go guages. Cost for that will be under $200.
Now for the dies. Three possible choices.
1. You can order a resize reamer (another $150)again from PTG and get a smith who makes dies to make a FL size die and send it out for heat treating. He can use the chamber reamer to make a seater either using a 7/8x14 blank or wilson inline die. Cost will normally be $300-500 depending on the smith.
2. Send Neil Jones at Neil Jones Custom Products a copy of your chamber reamer print from PTG. He will make a size die and send it back. It will be NS only initially. Load 5 cases and fire them 3x. Return die and cases to Neil. He will make a custom body insert to put in the original NS die to make it a FL size die with shoulder bump bushings. It will match your chamber perfectly. Neils bushings come down on the shoulder and actually bump it back and not leaving the unsized ring at the neck. Cost will be $175 and 30-60 days for initial die. It wil come with two bushings.
Neil can also make a micro seater. $110 either 7/8x14 or inline your choice.
these are the rolls royce of dies and cannot be beat for matching your chamber and cost.
3. IF (big IF) you are using a parent case that has a Redding body bump die ($25)and the body dimensions do not change much, you can send it along with 10 cases fired 3x to Jim Carstenson at JLC Precision in Iowa. go to www.6mmbr.com and look under "tools" He will make it into a custom honed FL size die for standard bushings. Cost is $80 and two weeks. chamber reamer can be sent for him to make a seater or order from Neil Jones.
BH
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
skeetlee, You's a gun ho. The first time I saw a 6.5 Creedmoore cartrige case, I thought hummmm, 6mm. Git R Done. Unless you can get brass made with your own headstamp you will just call it 6MM Creedmore.LOL.
skeetlee, You's a gun ho. The first time I saw a 6.5 Creedmoore cartrige case, I thought hummmm, 6mm. Git R Done. Unless you can get brass made with your own headstamp you will just call it 6MM Creedmore.LOL.
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
I understand the benefit of shortening a 6.5 case to get more room in the mag for bullet seating further out, but all the 6 bullets I've seen including the 110 + grain vld's already fit nicely am I missing something?
I understand the benefit of shortening a 6.5 case to get more room in the mag for bullet seating further out, but all the 6 bullets I've seen including the 110 + grain vld's already fit nicely am I missing something?
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
What is needed is for someone to remove the belt from the standard .375 H&H magnum case and rebate the rim to fit in a .472 bolt.
Cartridges of short, intermediate, and long length to be used in short and long action rifles already existing.
Rather like an extended case .284 Winchester.
Have often wondered why the .308, .338, and .358 aren't necked up on the .284 Win case? Much better potential than using the .308 case. Much lower pressure, longer barrel life, more power and better ballistics from heavier bullets.
Might get about the same result from rebating the casehead on the WSM case body.
The Grendel and .284 cases prove that rebated caseheads are very functional. Maybe look at a stretched Grendel also for the AR-10 platform. How'd you like a Grendel with 10 more grains of capacity and a magazine oal that let you use all the 6.5 or 7mm bullets you could seat?
One more thing. How about a Marlin 1895 chambered in .460 S&W so you could shoot .45Colt, .454Casull and the big mama S&W rounds and get 10rds in the Guide Gun tube rather than 4? Who needs a .458 diameter rifle if all the handgun bullets are .451 and .452?
What is needed is for someone to remove the belt from the standard .375 H&H magnum case and rebate the rim to fit in a .472 bolt.
Cartridges of short, intermediate, and long length to be used in short and long action rifles already existing.
Rather like an extended case .284 Winchester.
Have often wondered why the .308, .338, and .358 aren't necked up on the .284 Win case? Much better potential than using the .308 case. Much lower pressure, longer barrel life, more power and better ballistics from heavier bullets.
Might get about the same result from rebating the casehead on the WSM case body.
The Grendel and .284 cases prove that rebated caseheads are very functional. Maybe look at a stretched Grendel also for the AR-10 platform. How'd you like a Grendel with 10 more grains of capacity and a magazine oal that let you use all the 6.5 or 7mm bullets you could seat?
One more thing. How about a Marlin 1895 chambered in .460 S&W so you could shoot .45Colt, .454Casull and the big mama S&W rounds and get 10rds in the Guide Gun tube rather than 4? Who needs a .458 diameter rifle if all the handgun bullets are .451 and .452?
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
Lee,
by using a parent case and necking it down, you should be able to get away with a bushing die with the appropriate bushings. If it weren't for wildcaters we wouldn't have anything fun. I like the idea of a 6creedmore, but it's pretty mainstream. If it were me I'd go 22 Creedmore. Barrel life would be a little short, but if barrels were meant to be permanent they'd be welded on. I'd set it up as a 8 twist and run the 80's and possibly the 90's if they'd stabilize. I'm a big fan of 1000yd .22's.
Lee,
by using a parent case and necking it down, you should be able to get away with a bushing die with the appropriate bushings. If it weren't for wildcaters we wouldn't have anything fun. I like the idea of a 6creedmore, but it's pretty mainstream. If it were me I'd go 22 Creedmore. Barrel life would be a little short, but if barrels were meant to be permanent they'd be welded on. I'd set it up as a 8 twist and run the 80's and possibly the 90's if they'd stabilize. I'm a big fan of 1000yd .22's.
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
I think it's a good idea, sort of a reverse Ackley .243 chambering. To me, the advantage of the CM case is its shorter length, which may allow bullet COAL's to be unlimited by short action length. Having no experience with the .243, I can't really state whether the .243 is limited in that way, but if it is, then a 6CM would make excellent sense to me.
As a wildcatter, I would say it matters very little whether anyone does this besides you. If it works for you, and you don't mind the pioneering the unorthodox, I say, go for it.
Greg
I think it's a good idea, sort of a reverse Ackley .243 chambering. To me, the advantage of the CM case is its shorter length, which may allow bullet COAL's to be unlimited by short action length. Having no experience with the .243, I can't really state whether the .243 is limited in that way, but if it is, then a 6CM would make excellent sense to me.
As a wildcatter, I would say it matters very little whether anyone does this besides you. If it works for you, and you don't mind the pioneering the unorthodox, I say, go for it.
Greg
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
I really thing the only new direction that we can go now is the 22x50BMG.
I really thing the only new direction that we can go now is the 22x50BMG.
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
Let's see.. I picked up 600 pcs of 22-250 winchester brass a few weeks back. Even in today's times it was not hard to get and a third the price of the Creedmoor brass. 6mm/22-250 dies are available from Redding and I found them in stock at Lock Stock and Barrel. A single pass with the tapered expander makes the brass take a 6mm bullet.
The bigger issue is there is no effing way I'd invest a penny in the Creedmoor and here's why. Hornady is executing a marketing plan to introduce 12 new products a year. Everything from new bullets to new pistol chamberings that mirror the 30 carbine to things like the Creedmoor. The vast majority of these efforts will not maintain sales and become obsolete. That is a gamble I don't want to take with the Creedmoor brass.
Most also fail to understand that the 6.5x47 is really a necked up 6x47 Swiss Match that was created specifically for 300 meter competition. If you want a case designed around 6mm, get the x47 in its original neck dimension.
Or go "invent" something just to be different. Your $$.
The 6mm-250 is simple goodness. 37 grs of RL19 net me 2850 FPS with the 107 SMK and awesome accuracy. A slower twist and lighter bullets are no biggie - people have been doing it with that chambering for as long as you've been alive.
Let's see.. I picked up 600 pcs of 22-250 winchester brass a few weeks back. Even in today's times it was not hard to get and a third the price of the Creedmoor brass. 6mm/22-250 dies are available from Redding and I found them in stock at Lock Stock and Barrel. A single pass with the tapered expander makes the brass take a 6mm bullet.
The bigger issue is there is no effing way I'd invest a penny in the Creedmoor and here's why. Hornady is executing a marketing plan to introduce 12 new products a year. Everything from new bullets to new pistol chamberings that mirror the 30 carbine to things like the Creedmoor. The vast majority of these efforts will not maintain sales and become obsolete. That is a gamble I don't want to take with the Creedmoor brass.
Most also fail to understand that the 6.5x47 is really a necked up 6x47 Swiss Match that was created specifically for 300 meter competition. If you want a case designed around 6mm, get the x47 in its original neck dimension.
Or go "invent" something just to be different. Your $$.
The 6mm-250 is simple goodness. 37 grs of RL19 net me 2850 FPS with the 107 SMK and awesome accuracy. A slower twist and lighter bullets are no biggie - people have been doing it with that chambering for as long as you've been alive.
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
"Have often wondered why the .308, .338, and .358 aren't necked up on the .284 Win case? Much better potential than using the .308 case. Much lower pressure, longer barrel life, more power and better ballistics from heavier bullets."
An astute observation, Swamper.
If you were to neck up a .284 Win to .308, you'd have a 7.5x55 Swiss. I did that, using a 7.5 Swiss match chamber (reamer from Kiff)on a PacNor 1/10 twist polygonal twist bbl. It's a hammer.
"Have often wondered why the .308, .338, and .358 aren't necked up on the .284 Win case? Much better potential than using the .308 case. Much lower pressure, longer barrel life, more power and better ballistics from heavier bullets."
An astute observation, Swamper.
If you were to neck up a .284 Win to .308, you'd have a 7.5x55 Swiss. I did that, using a 7.5 Swiss match chamber (reamer from Kiff)on a PacNor 1/10 twist polygonal twist bbl. It's a hammer.
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HasgunWilltravel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really thing the only new direction that we can go now is the 22x50BMG.
</div></div>
Thats just kewl! 22x408CT is the next one that is a must!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HasgunWilltravel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really thing the only new direction that we can go now is the 22x50BMG.
Thats just kewl! 22x408CT is the next one that is a must!!!
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Have often wondered why the .308, .338, and .358 aren't necked up on the .284 Win case?
One more thing. How about a Marlin 1895 chambered in .460 S&W so you could shoot .45Colt, .454Casull and the big mama S&W rounds and get 10rds in the Guide Gun tube rather than 4? Who needs a .458 diameter rifle if all the handgun bullets are .451 and .452? </div></div>
The necked up 284 to a 308 is also known as a 7.5x55 Swiss. It's a dynamite 30 cal round. In fact, about 50 pieces of the 7.5 Swiss brass that I have is simply necked and fireformed 284 Brass. I couldn't find any 7.5 Swiss when I got my first k31 and an old guy at the range told me he did it in the 70's or so with his k31 before the ammo was easy to get in this country.
The 44 cal wildcat we built was designed so with minimal changes to an AR mag you can use a 30 rounder and get about 20 in it, in a bolt action it's quite the application to have an absolutely silent "momentum pig" bullet with 20 rounds underneath it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Have often wondered why the .308, .338, and .358 aren't necked up on the .284 Win case?
One more thing. How about a Marlin 1895 chambered in .460 S&W so you could shoot .45Colt, .454Casull and the big mama S&W rounds and get 10rds in the Guide Gun tube rather than 4? Who needs a .458 diameter rifle if all the handgun bullets are .451 and .452? </div></div>
The necked up 284 to a 308 is also known as a 7.5x55 Swiss. It's a dynamite 30 cal round. In fact, about 50 pieces of the 7.5 Swiss brass that I have is simply necked and fireformed 284 Brass. I couldn't find any 7.5 Swiss when I got my first k31 and an old guy at the range told me he did it in the 70's or so with his k31 before the ammo was easy to get in this country.
The 44 cal wildcat we built was designed so with minimal changes to an AR mag you can use a 30 rounder and get about 20 in it, in a bolt action it's quite the application to have an absolutely silent "momentum pig" bullet with 20 rounds underneath it.
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bermshot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Have often wondered why the .308, .338, and .358 aren't necked up on the .284 Win case? Much better potential than using the .308 case. Much lower pressure, longer barrel life, more power and better ballistics from heavier bullets."
An astute observation, Swamper.
If you were to neck up a .284 Win to .308, you'd have a 7.5x55 Swiss. I did that, using a 7.5 Swiss match chamber (reamer from Kiff)on a PacNor 1/10 twist polygonal twist bbl. It's a hammer. </div></div>
Apparently I should read all the way through a thread before replying to it
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bermshot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Have often wondered why the .308, .338, and .358 aren't necked up on the .284 Win case? Much better potential than using the .308 case. Much lower pressure, longer barrel life, more power and better ballistics from heavier bullets."
An astute observation, Swamper.
If you were to neck up a .284 Win to .308, you'd have a 7.5x55 Swiss. I did that, using a 7.5 Swiss match chamber (reamer from Kiff)on a PacNor 1/10 twist polygonal twist bbl. It's a hammer. </div></div>
Apparently I should read all the way through a thread before replying to it
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
"Apparently I should read all the way through a thread before replying to it"
Nah! But a good indication that great minds think alike.
I recently sold my last two K-31's. Wish I'd kept one, but couldn't resist the oportunity to triple my money.
Someone once refered to the exellence of Smidt-Rubins and Swede Mausers as the best kept secret in the U.S.
I'm inclined to agree.
"Apparently I should read all the way through a thread before replying to it"
Nah! But a good indication that great minds think alike.
I recently sold my last two K-31's. Wish I'd kept one, but couldn't resist the oportunity to triple my money.
Someone once refered to the exellence of Smidt-Rubins and Swede Mausers as the best kept secret in the U.S.
I'm inclined to agree.
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
NineHotel
I think that the 6mm 22-250 is a great idea and i have thought about it several times. The creedmoor case will hold a bit more powder, thus making it better!!!! Thats all i need, MORE FASTER!!! I dont think the creedmoore brass is going anywhere to soon. There are quite a few long distant shooters utilizing its great design. Short cases and long bullets are recipe for serious business. I still think it makes since!!! Besides you dont always have to have a reason to try something new, other than desire. Just think what life would be like if no one ever tried anything new. I just love this stuff to much i guess.
I do like the idea of a 22cal bullet on the creedmoor case as well. I bet i could get 22 swift velocity in a better designed case. That makes since, doesnt it!! Thanks for the reply fellas, i didnt think this subject would have gotten so much attention. It's looking like a go on my end. My smith is even on bored. It will be a little while before i do though. I have build 3 rifles in the last 3 months, and my wife wants a new back yard. ARGG!! I may have to cool my jets a bit after the 6mm dasher is done this next month. I will keep researching all this so i know i am making good choices on what cal to do this in. 6mm would be a bit simpler, but the 22cal is really drawing my attention. I just keep thinking about a 55gr v-max at 4200fps. Maybe?? Its all in fun!!! Thanks Lee
NineHotel
I think that the 6mm 22-250 is a great idea and i have thought about it several times. The creedmoor case will hold a bit more powder, thus making it better!!!! Thats all i need, MORE FASTER!!! I dont think the creedmoore brass is going anywhere to soon. There are quite a few long distant shooters utilizing its great design. Short cases and long bullets are recipe for serious business. I still think it makes since!!! Besides you dont always have to have a reason to try something new, other than desire. Just think what life would be like if no one ever tried anything new. I just love this stuff to much i guess.
I do like the idea of a 22cal bullet on the creedmoor case as well. I bet i could get 22 swift velocity in a better designed case. That makes since, doesnt it!! Thanks for the reply fellas, i didnt think this subject would have gotten so much attention. It's looking like a go on my end. My smith is even on bored. It will be a little while before i do though. I have build 3 rifles in the last 3 months, and my wife wants a new back yard. ARGG!! I may have to cool my jets a bit after the 6mm dasher is done this next month. I will keep researching all this so i know i am making good choices on what cal to do this in. 6mm would be a bit simpler, but the 22cal is really drawing my attention. I just keep thinking about a 55gr v-max at 4200fps. Maybe?? Its all in fun!!! Thanks Lee
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
Skeet. If your looking for speed a great way to go would be a 6.5x284 and a .22x284. I have liked the 6.5 for a long time and its a great all around case. The 22 will shoot the 55 Nosler Balistic Tips at close to 4400 FPS. Tought to beat that. Tough to mess with something other things when you can use one that already works better.
Skeet. If your looking for speed a great way to go would be a 6.5x284 and a .22x284. I have liked the 6.5 for a long time and its a great all around case. The 22 will shoot the 55 Nosler Balistic Tips at close to 4400 FPS. Tought to beat that. Tough to mess with something other things when you can use one that already works better.
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
The 22-284 sounds like a horse!! The hole reason i am even thinking about doing any of this is because of the creedmoor case. I really like the case design and the quality/price. Thanks Lee
The 22-284 sounds like a horse!! The hole reason i am even thinking about doing any of this is because of the creedmoor case. I really like the case design and the quality/price. Thanks Lee
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 22-284 sounds like a horse!! The hole reason i am even thinking about doing any of this is because of the creedmoor case. I really like the case design and the quality/price. Thanks Lee </div></div>
quality/price.....what is this new cartridge going to offer over the current 6mm chambering's??? What will it give me (performance wise) that I can't get from a 243/243AI using Lapua brass? Surely you're not saying that the Horny brass is the equivelant of the Lapua??? What am I missing here, I just don't get it???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 22-284 sounds like a horse!! The hole reason i am even thinking about doing any of this is because of the creedmoor case. I really like the case design and the quality/price. Thanks Lee </div></div>
quality/price.....what is this new cartridge going to offer over the current 6mm chambering's??? What will it give me (performance wise) that I can't get from a 243/243AI using Lapua brass? Surely you're not saying that the Horny brass is the equivelant of the Lapua??? What am I missing here, I just don't get it???
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
brad arnet
Have you read anything i wrote? I explain myself pretty clearly i think. And no. Hornady brass isnt as good as Lapua and if you had read what i wrote you would have seen were i talk about that as well. Lee
brad arnet
Have you read anything i wrote? I explain myself pretty clearly i think. And no. Hornady brass isnt as good as Lapua and if you had read what i wrote you would have seen were i talk about that as well. Lee
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
My bad buddy....I guess I missed it. I thought there was a practical reason for the cartridge. I have no interest in a chambering who's claim to fame is the creator's boredom.....good luck with project.
My bad buddy....I guess I missed it. I thought there was a practical reason for the cartridge. I have no interest in a chambering who's claim to fame is the creator's boredom.....good luck with project.
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bermshot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Apparently I should read all the way through a thread before replying to it"
Nah! But a good indication that great minds think alike.
I recently sold my last two K-31's. Wish I'd kept one, but couldn't resist the oportunity to triple my money.
Someone once refered to the exellence of Smidt-Rubins and Swede Mausers as the best kept secret in the U.S.
I'm inclined to agree. </div></div>
Yeah, I agree. I bought 3 of them in 2004 and sold two recently. I kept that last one that shot the best for myself. It's probably the best surplus rifle I own, and I have a k98 that I swear is brand freaking new. I am still looking for a good Swede to complete my mauser collection.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 22-284 sounds like a horse!! The hole reason i am even thinking about doing any of this is because of the creedmoor case. I really like the case design and the quality/price. Thanks Lee </div></div>
I have a reamer for it, I was thinking about building a 22-250 until I stumbled across this reamer on Ebay. It's a real bastard forming brass for it. I crumpled a couple of cases already.
At 4400 fps there's some good thoughts that a 55 fmj won't hold up under a fast twist barrel. I did some research on it, seems that there's 2 routes to go. Hyper velocity for making water based targets (such as groundhogs) absolutely explode, or fast twist barrel like a 1:8 or 1:7.5 for launching 80-90's in the 3700 fps range.
It burns barrels like a hooker goes through Pall Mall's, and it likes slow powder and expensive bullets. All in all, I'm really looking forward to getting some chips flying on it. I have 2 projects ahead of it though. I'm rebarreling my 204 Ruger into a 6-223 for something with a good barrel life and good ballistics for my girlfriend to shoot and I'm building a 6.5-06 on an action that I'm designing. I expect I"ll starting the 22x284 sometime around this time next year.
I'm going to be building mine on a k98 action I have sitting around, I'm using a 1:9 twist Adams and Bennet Barrel because that's what I got cheap in a full bull barrel. I plan to be setting it back at least once to get a reasonable lifetime out of it.
Here's a couple threads I started asking questions about it.
http://6mmbr.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3362604
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1039857
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bermshot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Apparently I should read all the way through a thread before replying to it"
Nah! But a good indication that great minds think alike.
I recently sold my last two K-31's. Wish I'd kept one, but couldn't resist the oportunity to triple my money.
Someone once refered to the exellence of Smidt-Rubins and Swede Mausers as the best kept secret in the U.S.
I'm inclined to agree. </div></div>
Yeah, I agree. I bought 3 of them in 2004 and sold two recently. I kept that last one that shot the best for myself. It's probably the best surplus rifle I own, and I have a k98 that I swear is brand freaking new. I am still looking for a good Swede to complete my mauser collection.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 22-284 sounds like a horse!! The hole reason i am even thinking about doing any of this is because of the creedmoor case. I really like the case design and the quality/price. Thanks Lee </div></div>
I have a reamer for it, I was thinking about building a 22-250 until I stumbled across this reamer on Ebay. It's a real bastard forming brass for it. I crumpled a couple of cases already.
At 4400 fps there's some good thoughts that a 55 fmj won't hold up under a fast twist barrel. I did some research on it, seems that there's 2 routes to go. Hyper velocity for making water based targets (such as groundhogs) absolutely explode, or fast twist barrel like a 1:8 or 1:7.5 for launching 80-90's in the 3700 fps range.
It burns barrels like a hooker goes through Pall Mall's, and it likes slow powder and expensive bullets. All in all, I'm really looking forward to getting some chips flying on it. I have 2 projects ahead of it though. I'm rebarreling my 204 Ruger into a 6-223 for something with a good barrel life and good ballistics for my girlfriend to shoot and I'm building a 6.5-06 on an action that I'm designing. I expect I"ll starting the 22x284 sometime around this time next year.
I'm going to be building mine on a k98 action I have sitting around, I'm using a 1:9 twist Adams and Bennet Barrel because that's what I got cheap in a full bull barrel. I plan to be setting it back at least once to get a reasonable lifetime out of it.
Here's a couple threads I started asking questions about it.
http://6mmbr.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3362604
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1039857
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NineHotel
Short cases and long bullets are recipe for serious business.
I do like the idea of a 22cal bullet on the creedmoor case as well. I bet i could get 22 swift velocity in a better designed case. That makes since, doesnt it!! Thanks Lee </div></div>
6x47 lapua....22-250 AI..........makes sense doesnt it ?????/?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NineHotel
Short cases and long bullets are recipe for serious business.
I do like the idea of a 22cal bullet on the creedmoor case as well. I bet i could get 22 swift velocity in a better designed case. That makes since, doesnt it!! Thanks Lee </div></div>
6x47 lapua....22-250 AI..........makes sense doesnt it ?????/?
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
Makes sense to me, but obviously not to others.
Wildcatting anything on a Creedmoor doesn't, though. Plenty of better choices out there.
Makes sense to me, but obviously not to others.
Wildcatting anything on a Creedmoor doesn't, though. Plenty of better choices out there.
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Afy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about a 6.5 mm BR? </div></div>
This one exists. There is some info around if you look. The case capacity limits you though to reach the good BC bullets. There was some on a 243wssm necked up to 6.5 somewhere I saw. If I remember correctly it was being tried for long range bench or F-class.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Afy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about a 6.5 mm BR? </div></div>
This one exists. There is some info around if you look. The case capacity limits you though to reach the good BC bullets. There was some on a 243wssm necked up to 6.5 somewhere I saw. If I remember correctly it was being tried for long range bench or F-class.
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
A magnum case w a rebated rim exists and has been wilcatted a little but it was a while back the, .425 Westly Richards was built purposely to keep from having to modify a bolt face on a mauser. A couple guys played with it the most memorable was one necked to .358 and improved, but I still can't remember who did it. Oh well, I've got a 6-284 so I feel your pain, I like it for a ultralite deer rig. its built w a #3 contour on an fn commercial. and shoots 90's at 3400 in a short magazine.
A magnum case w a rebated rim exists and has been wilcatted a little but it was a while back the, .425 Westly Richards was built purposely to keep from having to modify a bolt face on a mauser. A couple guys played with it the most memorable was one necked to .358 and improved, but I still can't remember who did it. Oh well, I've got a 6-284 so I feel your pain, I like it for a ultralite deer rig. its built w a #3 contour on an fn commercial. and shoots 90's at 3400 in a short magazine.
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
Whoever the Limey was that created the "belted" mag should be dug up, shot in the head and re-interned. BTW, 30-338 and 300 win mag are Newtons- almost (beltless). Are they 100 years old yet?
We do at least two wildcats per week with the appropriate forming and sizing dies to go with it. Hydro forming, seating dies, starting loads, and on and on
Got an idea? give a call.
Alan
If you don't start with the bests brass, bullets and barrel, your just pissin in the wind.
Whoever the Limey was that created the "belted" mag should be dug up, shot in the head and re-interned. BTW, 30-338 and 300 win mag are Newtons- almost (beltless). Are they 100 years old yet?
We do at least two wildcats per week with the appropriate forming and sizing dies to go with it. Hydro forming, seating dies, starting loads, and on and on
Got an idea? give a call.
Alan
If you don't start with the bests brass, bullets and barrel, your just pissin in the wind.
A
atreeman
Guest
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
Or you could try a 7mm 6.5x47. Something v similar was tried over here c 1945.
Regards
BTW the 'limey' who invented the belted mag would probably agree with you if it weren't for the .300h&h which needs the belt. Have you seen the lack of shoulder on that case?
Or you could try a 7mm 6.5x47. Something v similar was tried over here c 1945.
Regards
BTW the 'limey' who invented the belted mag would probably agree with you if it weren't for the .300h&h which needs the belt. Have you seen the lack of shoulder on that case?
Re: I want to invent a new cartridge!!
I like your idea lee go with it. I would prefer to try the 6mm/250ai which yes I know would be really close to a 243ai and the 6x47, 6mmxc,6mm dasher, but sometimes its just cool to have something alittle different, plus I already have 223ai,22-250ai and 243ai so why not add another ai to the mix. god bless PO Ackley.
scott
I like your idea lee go with it. I would prefer to try the 6mm/250ai which yes I know would be really close to a 243ai and the 6x47, 6mmxc,6mm dasher, but sometimes its just cool to have something alittle different, plus I already have 223ai,22-250ai and 243ai so why not add another ai to the mix. god bless PO Ackley.
scott
