In the Market for an AR-10 (buy or build?)

[wigwamitus]

I see several similar threads. One is VERY similar to one of my lines of thinking, but I don't want to horn in on other people's threads, so starting a separate one.

I haven't yet decided on "buy or build" so still looking at both.

I've looked at just about all the "buy" options I can find out there ... and right now, looking hardest at Larue, WC and GAP.

For the BUILD option, here is current parts list:

$175	2 pd trigger AR-10	http://www.jardinc.com/ar-15-single-stage-top-adjust			get weighted hammer version for AR-10
$850	20 inch bartlein ar-10 barrel	https://craddockprecision.com/308-win-bartlein-10t/
$210	AP lower	https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/m5-308-stripped-lower-receiver-fde
$75	lower kit	https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/m5-308-lower-parts-kit
210	AP Upper	https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/m5-308-stripped-lower-receiver-fde
75	CTR stock	https://www.larue.com/products/larue-tactical-risrtm-ctr-combo/
65	buffer kit	https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/m5-308-carbine-buffer-kit
235	handguard	https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/m5-atlas-r-one-m-lok-handguard

This adds up to $1,895 ... though I'm sure it isn't done.

==
As to what would I use it for? Three things, same as all my other rifles:

01 - Dots and groups ... this is mostly day shooting and is about 80% of my live fires per week. Done from prone and RRS tripod about 50/50. This is 100yds.

02 - Wind practice ... target shooting from 500yds to 1,050 yds, which is as far as I can get on my land. I shoot at IPSC(2/3) steel, day and night, prone and tripod, all about even. This is about 15% of weekly live fires.

03 - Critter Control ... mostly predators around the chickens and cattle and vermin around the buildings. This is 97% at night and is done from standing unsupported for carbines and tripod for rifles.

So, I want to be able to shoot FGMM 175gr out to 900yds ... and possibly 155gr (Sierra #2156) out to 1,050. I shoot FGMM 175gr out of two of my bolt guns and it gets the job done for $1.04 per round including shipping.

The Larue, or WC options are around $3,400 ... the GAP-10 a little less ... the build your own is currently under $2k, but to finish it will probably go over.

The, built your own option would use the same barrel and AGB as the GAP, but would use AP upper and lower instead of seekins. I don't like the big stock on the GAP, so I'd replace it with something smaller like a CTR. I use CTRs on my 5.56(18) and 6.5G(18) and they work fine for my purposes, which are the same as the above, except I only require the 5.56(18) to get to 750yds, which is does fine.

The planned optic will either be Mk5 3.6-18x or NF 4-16x (42) ... needs to be able to run SIMRAD on top and UTC-x or other inline clipons out front.

==

(oh, I might say it is ironic that I'm "going back" to a 7.62 stoner as the first gun I bought when we moved out to cattle ranch in 2012 was a Sig 7.62 Patrol (16 inch). I sold it in 2016, but not because I didn't like it, but because the Sig business model was not compatible with my business model. Their business model is they won't sell you parts, you have to send the rifle in and wait a couple of months to get it back. My business model is I have to keep the rifles working all the time and fix them in hours or days if they are broke. Our business models were not compatible. I got the 6.5G(18) as the replacement. And I love it ... BUT the ammo issue is worse than I expected. I like the 130gr berger Federal load and for 15 months I couldn't find any anywhere ... now it is out there and I grabbed 1200 rds ... but that 15 month unexpected gap, taught me a lesson, so going "back" to the 7.62 cartridge, which will enable me to share ammo with my two bolt guns similarly chambered. And that seems like a good idea.)

==
Alright, tell me where I'm screwin' up my thinking !!!

 

[Inifinty]

You should factor in what your time is worth too.

Frank was talking up the Seekins MSRs on one of the podcasts.

Seekins SP10 $2550

 

[_Windrider_]

I always say build. Instead of aero, there is a mega billet set for sale in the PX for 400. WAY better than aero.

 

[srt-4_uk]

I don't see a BCG or charging handle on your list. If you decide to build, getting the Aero parts from Brownells will save you hundreds.

 

[Blutroop]

I would lean towards build personally, but I would also keep my eyes out for a good local used deal as well. You have to do your research with building the ar10 though. It’s not all comparable like the ar15

 

[DaleGribble82]

Yeah be cautious when dicking with an AR-10 there is no “Mil Spec” there is no “industry standard”. AR-10 builds require a bit more research. Is it an Armalite spec is it a DPMS spec etc. Best part about doing a build is you get to decide what the fuck you want. That was the most enjoyable part of piecing together my 3 gun rifle which is obviously an AR-15.

I love being asked well “why’d you go with that BCG” or “why’d you go full mass carrier and 20 inch barrel” answer is always the same, “because I fucking wanted to that’s why”. I’m just kidding I have better answers/reasons than that, but seriously it is your rifle your project you call the shots. Just gotta pay a little more attention to an AR-10 build. @TacticalDillhole is right I built my rifle from an Aero builder set, it is awesome however, a mega billet set would have been better especially for $400. Just my 0.02

 

[DaleGribble82]

One more thing to add. Your choice in a Bartlein barrel is excellent, just throwing you a bone, and anyone here with a different experience please let me know. Those Wilson Combat barrels are freaking lights out at a substantially lower cost than your listed Bartlein.

 

[4darkseid]

For the money, the DD5 from Daniel Defense is a good gun. I've shot the piss out of them. My only reservations are the proprietary rail system and charging handle. Top tier would be Knight's Armament Co. SR-25 variants. They're not as good as they used to be, but if you want to impress your friends this is what you get.

 

[Jsp556]

It’s my understanding that the latest gen SR-25’s are a vast improvement over the legacy rifles.

 

[DaleGribble82]

It’s my understanding that the latest gen SR-25’s are a vast improvement over the legacy rifles.

I’m pretty poor so I’m not sure about this.

 

[wigwamitus]

... factor in what your time is worth ...

I haven't added my time to the cost of the build option, because I enjoy working on guns, and it would not be a chore or a diversion for me ... now I'm not doing it just for the fun of doing the build ...but the build time would not be "lost time" in my book.

... Frank was talking up the Seekins ...

I'll watch the video and read up more on the seekins parts.

... mega billet set for sale in the PX for 400. WAY better than aero ...

Why are the mega upper/lower better? Other than price!?

... I don't see a BCG or charging handle on your list ...

I knew I was missing something, thanks !!!

... I would lean towards build ...

The pros I've come up with for build are: better gun for the cost ... and I can more cheaply get a known quality barrel and the trigger I want .. etc. I'll have to replace less parts, than with a factory gun.

The cons are a factory gun SHOULD be ahead of the build gun on performance in that the parts were more designed, manufactured to work together and the gun is already "tuned". So it should be more reliable and maybe more accurate. And a built gun would not have the same resale value as a factory gun. Now I'm not building this to sell ... but for instance if I were to die soon, then wife would need to sell and she could probably get more for a factory gun.

But those considerations do not seem to make either direction a "no-brainer" for me at this time. Hence I'm still cogitating on the options.

... the DD5 from Daniel Defense is a good gun ...

Maybe I'm messed up, but doesn't the DD have a polymer lower ?? I'd like to experiment with a Tennessee Arms lower one day, but wasn't thinking of doing that first for this gun.

... Top tier would be Knight's Armament ...

haha ... maybe so .. but I always think of KAC as being the folks that charge u $300 for a thread protector

==
Ok, thanks a zillion for the replies and ideas and keep them coming and I will continue more research around the uppers and lowers in particular ... Seekins and Mega. Curious why those are better than Aero.

And yes what ever I get, I want the upper and lower to match, so I'll get them from the same manufacturer regardless of whether buy or build.

And one detail. I've called Larue several times and some of that was talking about the non-OBR options, like the upper kit, with a separate stripped Larue lower ... essentially a whole gun, but as a kit. The upper uses the same barrels as the OBR finished gun, but much of the rest of it is different. In particular there is no AGB on the upper. There is on the OBR. And in response to my questions, they said, with my suppressors (mostly SiCo) I would need an AGB.

I'd also like a 20 inch barrel, so I can get to 900yds more easily. But all the options under consideration have such.

And I'd prefer a bolt assist.

And the OBR has a 20 moa rail. And yes I could use a 20 moa mount (I'm 90% Spuhr ISMS) but I move my scopes around, so if I'm using a 20 moa mount, I'd have to re-ring the scopes when moving. That's not so scary any more, but it is a minor consideration.

I'd want to replace the stock and the trigger on the OBR. but that would probably be true for the WC and the GAP as well. The only way to get the "perfect" gun out of the box is to buy all the parts

==
So again, thanks for the responses and keep 'em coming .. this is very helpful !!

 

[DaleGribble82]

I haven't added my time to the cost of the build option, because I enjoy working on guns, and it would not be a chore or a diversion for me ... now I'm not doing it just for the fun of doing the build ...but the build time would not be "lost time" in my book.



I'll watch the video and read up more on the seekins parts.



Why are the mega upper/lower better? Other than price!?



I knew I was missing something, thanks !!!



The pros I've come up with for build are: better gun for the cost ... and I can more cheaply get a known quality barrel and the trigger I want .. etc. I'll have to replace less parts, than with a factory gun.

The cons are a factory gun SHOULD be ahead of the build gun on performance in that the parts were more designed, manufactured to work together and the gun is already "tuned". So it should be more reliable and maybe more accurate. And a built gun would not have the same resale value as a factory gun. Now I'm not building this to sell ... but for instance if I were to die soon, then wife would need to sell and she could probably get more for a factory gun.

But those considerations do not seem to make either direction a "no-brainer" for me at this time. Hence I'm still cogitating on the options.

Maybe I'm messed up, but doesn't the DD have a polymer lower ?? I'd like to experiment with a Tennessee Arms lower one day, but wasn't thinking of doing that first for this gun.



haha ... maybe so .. but I always think of KAC as being the folks that charge u $300 for a thread protector

==
Ok, thanks a zillion for the relies and ideas and keep them coming and I will continue more research around the uppers and lowers in particular ... Seekins and Mega. Curious why those are better than Aero.

And yes what ever I get, I want the upper and lower to match, so I'll get them from the same manufacturer regardless of whether buy or build.

And one detail. I've called Larue several times and some of that was talking about the non-OBR options, like the upper kit, with a separate stripped Larue lower ... essentially a whole gun, but as a kit. The upper uses the same barrels as the OBR finished gun, but much of the rest of it is different. In particular there is no AGB on the upper. There is on the OBR. And in response to my questions, they said, with my suppressors (mostly SiCo) I would need an AGB.

I'd also like a 20 inch barrel, so I can get to 900yds more easily. But all the options under consideration have such.

And I'd prefer a bolt assist.

And the OBR has a 20 moa rail. And yes I could use a 20 moa mount (I'm 90% Spuhr ISMS) but I move my scopes around, so if I'm using a 20 moa mount, I'd have to re-ring the scopes when moving. That's not so scary any more, but it is a minor consideration.

I'd want to replace the stock and the trigger on the OBR. but that would probably be true for the WC and the GAP as well. The only way to get the "perfect" gun out of the box is to buy all the parts

==
So again, thanks for the responses and keep 'em coming .. this is very helpful !!

I like how you addressed everything lol!

 

[wigwamitus]

... Those Wilson Combat barrels are freaking lights out ...

"lights out" ... that's good, right !!??

 

[DaleGribble82]

"lights out" ... that's good, right !!??

Yeah like when you pull the trigger what ever is on the other end goes “lights out”. ?

 

[Ravenworks]

If you truly like working on your guns,then you may want to look at doing it from the ground up.

Top Products

AR-15 80% Rifle Kits starting at only $299! 80% Lower Receiver for only $49! Cerakote for only $39! Ready to Ship!

www.ceratac.com

The 5D jig is second to none

 

[srt-4_uk]

If you are looking at a $3400 LaRue, I'd much rather have a $3400 side charging JP. Go play with their rifle builder.

 

[DaleGribble82]

If you are looking at a $3400 LaRue, I'd much rather have a $3400 side charging JP. Go play with their rifle builder.

This guy knows his stuff.

 

[wigwamitus]

.. I'd much rather have a $3400 side charging JP ..

Can you list a couple of reasons why ?? Is the "side charging" really that good ??

 

[DaleGribble82]

Can you list a couple of reasons why ?? Is the "side charging" really that good ??

At least from my perspective it’s not about the charging handle at all. It’s more so about the quality, and accuracy obtainable with a JP rifle. Side charger or not in 2019 I’d take a JP over Larue anyday of the week. Ever since they started turning their own barrels I’ve seen more negative than positive. If you search the forum you’ll find several threads with people struggling with accuracy out of their more recently produced Larue rifles. That isn’t to say they are all that way, but you will be hard pressed to find similar threads about a JP having any struggles.

 

[_Windrider_]

Can you list a couple of reasons why ?? Is the "side charging" really that good ??

Larue sucks. The customer service as atrocious. The only reason they are Ben popular is because Todd hodnett pimps their products. As for the Mega set being better, it’s just a quality control thing. While there is no standard for AR-10 like there is for at-15, there are a few manufacturers that come pretty close. Mega, Zev, GGP, all come close with that next level quality. Aero is fine, I’m not knocking their product. I’m just saying for 400 bucks I’d take the mega everyday and twice on Sunday.

 

[DaleGribble82]

Larue sucks. The customer service as atrocious. The only reason they are Ben popular is because Todd hodnett pimps their products. As for the Mega set being better, it’s just a quality control thing. While there is no standard for AR-10 like there is for at-15, there are a few manufacturers that come pretty close. Mega, Zev, GGP, all come to. One with that next level quality. Aero is fine, I’m not knocking their product. I’m just saying for 409 bucks I’d take the mega everyday and twice on Sunday.

When I read your posts I have this particular voice in my head that only comes out when I read your posts. I know you are up in Raleigh. I would graciously accept the opportunity to meet with you sometime to see if that voice is really you ??

 

[wigwamitus]

... If you search the forum you’ll find several threads with people struggling ...

... Ever since they started turning their own barrels ...

I have seen that, yes.

==

... more so about the quality, and accuracy obtainable with a JP ...

I've heard of JP of course ... and have some JP parts ... but have not read up on their rifles, nor seem them in any reviews on AR-10s I've goggled for. So, will have to look harder.

==
==

...
Frank was talking up the Seekins MSRs on one of the podcasts.

Seekins SP10 $2550 ...

I was hoping that link was to Frank talkin up ... will hunt for the podcast ... might be behind the paywall ? I will hunt ...

looked at the SP10

big stock I would replace ... extra cost and parts box weight ...
no boit assist
3 pd trigger - I am trying to standardize on 2 pd triggers for my rifles ...
18 inch barrel, I want a 20 inch
muzzle break, Larue, WC and GAP all come without muzzle devices and I don't need any muzzle devices, just extra cost and weight added to the parts box

builders kit for $879 ... now this looks interesting ... if I can find out why seekins uppers and lowers are better than aeros ...

 

[padom]

You can save a good bit and get a Rainier Ultramatch MOD 2 20" 1:10 308 barrel for $410 and use coupon code padom10 for another 10% off and have an extremely accurate barrel for under $400.

The MEGA and Seekins receiver sets are billet vs forged and are thicker for more reinforcement to prevent receiver flex. They also have undersized barrel extension area for a super tight fitting barrel into the upper.

Aero are good for a budget build. They arent tight fitting with your barrel, and I've had 2 mis milled M5 lowers that were replaced by Aero. Great for budget builds but I wouldnt use them on a build list like yours. MEGA has been my go to.but with them hard to find Seekins builders sets are next in line.

 

[DaleGribble82]

You can save a good bit and get a Rainier Ultramatch MOD 2 20" 1:10 308 barrel for $410 and use coupon code padom10 for another 10% off and have an extremely accurate barrel for under $400.

This is also a very good idea ??.

 

[_Windrider_]

I have seen that, yes.

==

I've heard of JP of course ... and have some JP parts ... but have not read up on their rifles, nor seem them in any reviews on AR-10s I've goggled for. So, will have to look harder.

==
==


I was hoping that link was to Frank talkin up ... will hunt for the podcast ... might be behind the paywall ? I will hunt ...

looked at the SP10

big stock I would replace ... extra cost and parts box weight ...
no boit assist
3 pd trigger - I am trying to standardize on 2 pd triggers for my rifles ...
18 inch barrel, I want a 20 inch
muzzle break, Larue, WC and GAP all come without muzzle devices and I don't need any muzzle devices, just extra cost and weight added to the parts box

builders kit for $879 ... now this looks interesting ... if I can find out why seekins uppers and lowers are better than aeros ...

I’m building an AR-10 right now on a Zev receiver set and bartlein barrel. The gas system is all JP (SCS, BCG and gas block). Trigger tech trigger, spuhr scope mount, magpul buttstock, area419 muzzle brake, radian raptor charging handle. This is not a cheap build. But I guarantee it will never fail on me.

 

[srt-4_uk]

When looking for JP reviews, Google LRP-07 instead of AR-10

 

[padom]

Cant beat that deal for that MEGA receiver set in the PX. That's a steal for someone building a 308 gasser. I'm tempted to grab it for a rainy day if someone doesnt claim it soon

 

[_Windrider_]

When I read your posts I have this particular voice in my head that only comes out when I read your posts. I know you are up in Raleigh. I would graciously accept the opportunity to meet with you sometime to see if that voice is really you ??

Picture a blond haired blue eyed native Californian living in the Bible Belt that says fuck and dude about every third word ?

 

[DaleGribble82]

I’m building an AR-10 right now on a Zev receiver set and bartlein barrel. The gas system is all JP (SCS, BCG and gas block). Trigger tech trigger, spuhr scope mount, magpul buttstock, area419 muzzle brake, radian raptor charging handle. This is not a cheap build. But I guarantee it will never fail on me.

This build set me back a good bit, same thing though, just don’t see this rifle ever having a hiccup.

Aero Precision upper & lower with 15 inch keymod

20 inch Wilson Combat Super Sniper threaded and fluted barrel chamber cut in .223 Wylde

Silencerco ASR muzzle break

SLR rifle length gas system

JP BCG with JP enhanced bolt

JP Silent Capture buffer assembly

JP rifle tube extension

JP Houge pistol grip with finger grooves

Luth-AR MBA-1 buttstock

Radian Raptor Charging Handle

Geissle single stage precision M4 curved bow set at 3.5lbs with lower parts kit

When I load and make ready with this thing, I literally feel like I’m fucking wielding Mjölnir

 

[_Windrider_]

Cant beat that deal for that MEGA receiver set in the PX. That's a steal for someone building a 308 gasser. I'm tempted to grab it for a rainy day if someone doesnt claim it soon

Been thinking the same thing.

 

[M8541Reaper]

If you want something that is going do what it is supposed to do, when it is supposed to do it, and you want the warm and fuzzy that any accuracy/performance issues are your fault (and not the system's) then buy a quality rifle and don't build. If you want to build one as a hobby and to play with, then build one. I've done both and had great results with an SR25/AR10 that I built. I ended up getting rid of it and just bought an OBR because 1). I've always wanted to try one and 2). its a fucking laser.

I don't have brand loyalty and will be the first one to admit when I wasted money on a product because it was/ is supposedly "the best" but no shit, I'm loving my OBR. I've carried KAC's rifles for years now, and while they are great, I don't think any of them have done as well as my OBR with a PRS stock. The only thing that sucks about having an OBR is working and having to drive over an hour to stretch it out. A lot of people on the forums hate on LaRue but that's just like, their opinion man. lol That being said, they are always popping up with pretty good deals on em in the PX.

Side Note: GAP rifles are GAP rifles, you're going to get a laser as well.

Buy once, cry once, live happy, and die with a few extra pages in your will.

 

[wigwamitus]

... Larue sucks. The customer service as atrocious. The only reason they are Ben popular is because Todd hodnett ...

Hum, I've called Larue a couple of dozen times over the years and at least I always get a human on the phone and they always gave me answers ... plausible answers even! But I've only bought small parts from them so far.
I have had several hunting buddies tell me they "hate" Larue, but I got the impression that was the person, not necessarily the gear.
I've got one shooting buddy who was issued an OBR and used in his service and listed it as one of his top 3 recommendations for my purposes. Seekins was also on that list.

 

[DaleGribble82]

If you want something that is going do what it is supposed to do, when it is supposed to do it, and you want the warm and fuzzy that any accuracy/performance issues are your fault (and not the system's) then buy a quality rifle and don't build. If you want to build one as a hobby and to play with, then build one. I've done both and had great results with an SR25/AR10 that I built. I ended up getting rid of it and just bought an OBR because 1). I've always wanted to try one and 2). its a fucking laser.

I don't have brand loyalty and will be the first one to admit when I wasted money on a product because it was/ is supposedly "the best" but no shit, I'm loving my OBR. I've carried KAC's rifles for years now, and while they are great, I don't think any of them have done as well as my OBR with a PRS stock. The only thing that sucks about having an OBR is working and having to drive over an hour to stretch it out. A lot of people on the forums hate on LaRue but that's just like, their opinion man. lol That being said, they are always popping up with pretty good deals on em in the PX.

Side Note: GAP rifles are GAP rifles, you're going to get a laser as well.

Buy once, cry once, live happy, and die with a few extra pages in your will.

When did you get your OBR, I’m only a brand loyalist to one company that makes bags and I’m sure if you’ve read enough of my posts you know the one. I use Larue mounts exclusively never had a problem with return to zero maybe I’m lucky. I know what you mean about the Larue haters though. I have seen it plenty of times.

I’ve just not seen enough positive accuracy reports of late. How does yours shoot? Does it have a Larue Stealth barrel?

 

[DaleGribble82]

Hum, I've called Larue a couple of dozen times over the years and at least I always get a human on the phone and they always gave me answers ... plausible answers even! But I've only bought small parts from them so far.
I have had several hunting buddies tell me they "hate" Larue, but I got the impression that was the person, not necessarily the gear.
I've got one shooting buddy who was issued an OBR and used in his service and listed it as one of his top 3 recommendations for my purposes. Seekins was also on that list.

I concur I’ve spoke to them many times never been on hold for more than three minutes, and I’ve never not been able to speak to someone. Emails are always replies to as well, no matter how stupid my question is.

 

[M8541Reaper]

When did you get your OBR, I’m only a brand loyalist to one company that makes bags and I’m sure if you’ve read enough of my posts you know the one. I use Larue mounts exclusively never had a problem with return to zero maybe I’m lucky. I know what you mean about the Larue haters though. I have seen it plenty of times.

I’ve just not seen enough positive accuracy reports of late. How does yours shoot? Does it have a Larue Stealth barrel?

lol I hear ya. Actually I lied, I am a brand loyalist to Badger when it comes to rings. However that may change when I pick up my new NF and AX (thinking about giving Spuhr a whirl, instead of Badger, because all of the cool kids swear by em).

My OBR was made back in 2013, and the test target showed a .27 group with 175FGMM. Not sure when they started with the stealth barrels or what barrels they used in 2013. I haven't been able to replicate the .27 (because I'm a human piece of garbage) but I will usually get round .5 - .7 with the 175FGMM and .7 - 1.0 with M118LR. ...unless I show up to the range and have one of those days where I shoot about ten rounds, throw everything back in the bag, throw it in the truck, and drive home angry because I want to ignore the fundamentals.

Like I said, I can't complain. I have a 308 gas gun that consistently shoots 1MOA (or sub) as long as I do what I'm supposed to do. For a gas gun, you can't scoff at that.

 

[DaleGribble82]

lol I hear ya. Actually I lied, I am a brand loyalist to Badger when it comes to rings. However that may change when I pick up my new NF and AX (thinking about giving Spuhr a whirl, instead of Badger, because all of the cool kids swear by em).

My OBR was made back in 2013, and the test target showed a .27 group with 175FGMM. Not sure when they started with the stealth barrels or what barrels they used in 2013. I haven't been able to replicate the .27 (because I'm a human piece of garbage) but I will usually get round .5 - .7 with the 175FGMM and .7 - 1.0 with M118LR. ...unless I show up to the range and have one of those days where I shoot about ten rounds, throw everything back in the bag, throw it in the truck, and drive home angry because I want to ignore the fundamentals.

Like I said, I can't complain. I have a 308 gas gun that consistently shoots 1MOA (or sub) as long as I do what I'm supposed to do. For a gas gun, you can't scoff at that.

Ahhhh yes a 2013. I can believe that accuracy. I don’t know when they started spinning their own, but I’m almost certain you got an outsourced barrel. I could be wrong though. Back then hell yeah those things were fucking hot dog hammers!

Ain’t nobody got me to hop on the Spuhr train yet and it seems unlikely but I said the same shit about Atlas, and how have one rifle outfitted with one.

 

[_Windrider_]

lol I hear ya. Actually I lied, I am a brand loyalist to Badger when it comes to rings. However that may change when I pick up my new NF and AX (thinking about giving Spuhr a whirl, instead of Badger, because all of the cool kids swear by em).

My OBR was made back in 2013, and the test target showed a .27 group with 175FGMM. Not sure when they started with the stealth barrels or what barrels they used in 2013. I haven't been able to replicate the .27 (because I'm a human piece of garbage) but I will usually get round .5 - .7 with the 175FGMM and .7 - 1.0 with M118LR. ...unless I show up to the range and have one of those days where I shoot about ten rounds, throw everything back in the bag, throw it in the truck, and drive home angry because I want to ignore the fundamentals.

Like I said, I can't complain. I have a 308 gas gun that consistently shoots 1MOA (or sub) as long as I do what I'm supposed to do. For a gas gun, you can't scoff at that.

Badger makes the best rings hands down. But spuhr makes the best “unimount” hands down. The people at badger are of the highest caliber in the business.

 

[wigwamitus]

... thinking about giving Spuhr a whirl, instead of Badger ...

I am in the process of moving from badger to spuhr ... I currently have 3 badgers and 5 spuhrs ... ISMS ... reason is flexibility. I can attach all sorts of crap to the spuhrs ...

On the bolt gun farther away, you can see a range finder on the 12 o'clock.

On the stoner 6.5G closer in, you can see a SIMRAD on top and an HPR102 on the 9 o'clock.

These are just examples of the flexibility of the Spuhrs. They even have an NV rail (A-700 part number) I will get several of, once they come back in stock. With the badgers, I can attach anything (including SIMRAD) on the 12 o'clock, but not simultaneously attach other crap on the 3 or 9.

Here's the SIMRAD on top and the ranger finder on the 9 ...

 

[Inifinty]

The Everyday Sniper Episode 47 Seekins Precision Glen Seekins Interview

 

[M8541Reaper]

@DaleGribble82
lol I said the same thing about Atlas too. I used to only run the HBRMS but once the CAL was announced on here, I pre-ordered lol. A lot of the guys I ran through LR courses had AX rifles and Atlas PSRs...I couldn't see the need to spend that much on a bipod when $100 Harris worked perfectly and always treated me good. But here I am years later with a CAL and about to order an AXSA.

@TacticalDillhole I've never run a Unimount on any of my systems so this would be my first. I figured money is good right now so I should keep with my "buy once, cry once" altitude and just do it.

Pic for the fun of it (Other rifle is my FNH A3G w/ the CDI DBM upgrade). Shit, now I want to go shooting.

 

[DaleGribble82]

@DaleGribble82
lol I said the same thing about Atlas too. I used to only run the HBRMS but once the CAL was announced on here, I pre-ordered lol. A lot of the guys I ran through LR courses had AX rifles and Atlas PSRs...I couldn't see the need to spend that much on a bipod when $100 Harris worked perfectly and always treated me good. But here I am years later with a CAL and about to order an AXSA.

@TacticalDillhole I've never run a Unimount on any of my systems so this would be my first. I figured money is good right now so I should keep with my "buy once, cry once" altitude and just do it.

Pic for the fun of it (Other rifle is my FNH A3G w/ the CDI DBM upgrade). Shit, now I want to go shooting.

Yeah man when I joined the forum, and saw the way people felt about Harris bipods it made me feel as if I was on food stamps, and fighting for hours at work ??

 

[wigwamitus]

I have 4 harris and 3 atlas, but I am in the process of (slowly) moving more to Atlas.

The main problem I have with the harris is the tensioning screw keeps coming loose causing "floppy bipod".

The main problem I have with the atlas is the "pan" feature, which I call the "ability to get one foot farther forward that the other" feature. And this is bad.

I like the "cant" capability, but I do not like the "pan" capability. If I'm shooting at movers, I will either just "twist in the dust" ... or use a trap lead. That said most of my rifle hunting shots are from the tripod where I have panning capabilty.

But at least the direct attach atlas don't have the "floppy bipod" feature like the harris do. And in direct attach mode the atlas are lighter. I also think I need to get at least one set of mud feet and one set of ice feet ... for both the atlas and the RRS ...

 

[DaleGribble82]

I have 4 harris and 3 atlas, but I am in the process of (slowly) moving more to Atlas.

The main problem I have with the harris is the tensioning screw keeps coming loose causing "floppy bipod".

The main problem I have with the atlas is the "pan" feature, which I call the "ability to get one foot farther forward that the other" feature. And this is bad.

I like the "cant" capability, but I do not like the "pan" capability. If I'm shooting at movers, I will either just "twist in the dust" ... or use a trap lead. That said most of my rifle hunting shots are from the tripod where I have panning capabilty.

But at least the direct attach atlas don't have the "floppy bipod" feature like the harris do. And in direct attach mode the atlas are lighter. I also think I need to get at least one set of mud feet and one set of ice feet ... for both the atlas and the RRS ...

Trap leads are the way to go.

 

[_Windrider_]

I have 4 harris and 3 atlas, but I am in the process of (slowly) moving more to Atlas.

The main problem I have with the harris is the tensioning screw keeps coming loose causing "floppy bipod".

The main problem I have with the atlas is the "pan" feature, which I call the "ability to get one foot farther forward that the other" feature. And this is bad.

I like the "cant" capability, but I do not like the "pan" capability. If I'm shooting at movers, I will either just "twist in the dust" ... or use a trap lead. That said most of my rifle hunting shots are from the tripod where I have panning capabilty.

But at least the direct attach atlas don't have the "floppy bipod" feature like the harris do. And in direct attach mode the atlas are lighter. I also think I need to get at least one set of mud feet and one set of ice feet ... for both the atlas and the RRS ...

Get the dloc conversion. That’ll stop that.

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[M8541Reaper]

I have 4 harris and 3 atlas, but I am in the process of (slowly) moving more to Atlas.

The main problem I have with the harris is the tensioning screw keeps coming loose causing "floppy bipod".

The main problem I have with the atlas is the "pan" feature, which I call the "ability to get one foot farther forward that the other" feature. And this is bad.

I like the "cant" capability, but I do not like the "pan" capability. If I'm shooting at movers, I will either just "twist in the dust" ... or use a trap lead. That said most of my rifle hunting shots are from the tripod where I have panning capabilty.

But at least the direct attach atlas don't have the "floppy bipod" feature like the harris do. And in direct attach mode the atlas are lighter. I also think I need to get at least one set of mud feet and one set of ice feet ... for both the atlas and the RRS ...

I had the same issue so I upgraded my Harris with the ADM QD mount. Got it through SAP. I actually just picked up a LaRue QD mount (same as the ADM but no longer sold by LaRue as a stand alone) for the wife's new Harris.

Shit, back to the OP's original post...

Buy a LaRue or GAP 308, slap your optic on with badger rings, and use a Harris with the QD mount when you aren't shooting off of a pack.

 

[_Windrider_]

I had the same issue so I upgraded my Harris with the ADM QD mount. Got it through SAP. I actually just picked up a LaRue QD mount (same as the ADM but no longer sold by LaRue as a stand alone) for the wife's new Harris.

Shit, back to the OP's original post...

Buy a LaRue or GAP 308, slap your optic on with badger rings, and use a Harris with the QD mount when you aren't shooting off of a pack.

The GAP as I’m sure many know, uses a seeking receiver and handguard with a bartlein barrel. Pretty sure they use Timney triggers

 

[wigwamitus]

Yup, the GAP is pretty close to my build, if I use seekins parts instead of aero.

 

[wigwamitus]

... ADM QD mount ...

I have 4 of these for my harris', but try to avoid them if possible, don't want to add weight if I don't have to and I don't think the ADM would resolve the tensioning screw coming loose. Let me upload a pic of what I'm talking about.

 

[padom]

Half the cost for that MEGA set...hint hint. Hahaha

 

[_Windrider_]

Half the cost for that MEGA set...hint hint. Hahaha

And it’s already cerakote in sniper gray