Ingenuity Powder System

[John Glidewell]

25gt

PM sent, so we do not derail this thread

 

[LR1845]

This is N150 stopping the trickler…it dumped 4.96g and bound up…after the powder settles in it get worse…I made a video but can’t post it from my phone.

 

[Evintos]

This is N150 stopping the trickler…it dumped 4.96g and bound up…after the powder settles in it get worse…I made a video but can’t post it from my phone.

What orientation is your wiper?

 

[vh20]

This is N150 stopping the trickler…it dumped 4.96g and bound up…after the powder settles in it get worse…I made a video but can’t post it from my phone.

I’d email Paul those pics (and video) and see what he says. I bet this isn’t a hard fix.

 

[LR1845]

What orientation is your wiper?

It is not the wiper causing the issue it’s the odd shaped kernels getting jammed against the side(housing)of the trickler and the plates.

 

[LR1845]

I worked with Paul we spoke many times on the phone he is aware of this.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Change powders

 

[vh20]

I worked with Paul we spoke many times on the phone he is aware of this.

Well, what did he say?

 

[LR1845]

Well, what did he say?

PM’d

 

[DairyDictator]

Not to derail the current conversation, but I picked up a powder cup and it came in today. So far it does a great job at keeping kernels inside the cup and the shape is pretty well designed.

EDIT: Coating the inside with graphite powder seems to have solved this issue.

There's one crippling flaw in my opinion. The inside flexible material should not be 3d printed, or requires some chemical post processing. Printing leaves a rough texture that makes dumping powder out of the cup a royal pain.

Here's what's typically left of N135 if I dump powder out like I would with a 419 or AT cup:

Here's what I typically get after spending ~3-5s tapping on my funnel

Here's why I think that's happening, notice the ridges

Might seem like a relatively small gripe but it opens up a lot of opportunity for me to spill measured powder, and adds a lot of time to the process. Basically leaves me with no spilled kernels, but adds a half hour or more to my overall powder drop time, and makes me less confident in what's in the case.

 

[akh223]

PM’d

Come on, no need to hide this information from everyone is there?

 

[Maurygold]

Not to derail the current conversation, but I picked up a powder cup and it came in today. So far it does a great job at keeping kernels inside the cup and the shape is pretty well designed.

There's one crippling flaw in my opinion. The inside flexible material should not be 3d printed, or requires some chemical post processing. Printing leaves a rough texture that makes dumping powder out of the cup a royal pain.

Here's what's typically left of N135 if I dump powder out like I would with a 419 or AT cup:
View attachment 8565169View attachment 8565170

Here's what I typically get after spending ~3-5s tapping on my funnel

View attachment 8565171

Here's why I think that's happening, notice the ridges

View attachment 8565172

Might seem like a relatively small gripe but it opens up a lot of opportunity for me to spill measured powder, and adds a lot of time to the process. Basically leaves me with no spilled kernels, but adds a half hour or more to my overall powder drop time, and makes me less confident in what's in the case.

Glad I saw this. I think the base is too big for the 419 tray but that doesn’t look good!!

 

[akh223]

Not to derail the current conversation, but I picked up a powder cup and it came in today. So far it does a great job at keeping kernels inside the cup and the shape is pretty well designed.

There's one crippling flaw in my opinion. The inside flexible material should not be 3d printed, or requires some chemical post processing. Printing leaves a rough texture that makes dumping powder out of the cup a royal pain.

Here's what's typically left of N135 if I dump powder out like I would with a 419 or AT cup:
View attachment 8565169View attachment 8565170

Here's what I typically get after spending ~3-5s tapping on my funnel

View attachment 8565171

Here's why I think that's happening, notice the ridges

View attachment 8565172

Might seem like a relatively small gripe but it opens up a lot of opportunity for me to spill measured powder, and adds a lot of time to the process. Basically leaves me with no spilled kernels, but adds a half hour or more to my overall powder drop time, and makes me less confident in what's in the case.

Do you have any powdered graphite? If so, rub some all over the 3d printed plastic inside the cup. It will help the powder release better.

 

[DairyDictator]

Glad I saw this. I think the base is too big for the 419 tray but that doesn’t look good!!

The base is perfect on a 419 tray. Was pretty happy to see that at least.

 

[DairyDictator]

Do you have any powdered graphite? If so, rub some all over the 3d printed plastic inside the cup. It will help the powder release better.

Great idea. I'll give it a shot and report back

 

[LR1845]

Come on, no need to hide this information from everyone is there?

My pm to akh223….as I’ve said it’s not real bad with the Varget and 4350 I have but it does do the same thing the N150 is a hard no go.

“He said he’d never seen this before with any of the powders he’d tested and wanted me to send him some powder.

I agreed to but the next morning on my way to the post office I changed my mind as it would be my luck it would get intercepted and the ATF would be knocking on my door.

We figured it was just the batch/lot of powders I have.”

 

[secondofangle2]

Not to derail the current conversation, but I picked up a powder cup and it came in today. So far it does a great job at keeping kernels inside the cup and the shape is pretty well designed.

There's one crippling flaw in my opinion. The inside flexible material should not be 3d printed, or requires some chemical post processing. Printing leaves a rough texture that makes dumping powder out of the cup a royal pain.

Here's what's typically left of N135 if I dump powder out like I would with a 419 or AT cup:
View attachment 8565169View attachment 8565170

Here's what I typically get after spending ~3-5s tapping on my funnel

View attachment 8565171

Here's why I think that's happening, notice the ridges

View attachment 8565172

Might seem like a relatively small gripe but it opens up a lot of opportunity for me to spill measured powder, and adds a lot of time to the process. Basically leaves me with no spilled kernels, but adds a half hour or more to my overall powder drop time, and makes me less confident in what's in the case.

I don’t think the powders I would have this problem, but that would be a major royal pain in the ass.

And the problem is that every other iteration that Paul tried except for the Dixie cup, led to kernels bouncing out during the bulk dump.

So I can envision this being another big problem brewing

 

[DairyDictator]

Do you have any powdered graphite? If so, rub some all over the 3d printed plastic inside the cup. It will help the powder release better.

Seems to have fixed it, but I didn't throw terribly many charges with it.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Great idea. I'll give it a shot and report back

NeoLube applied with the 2oz bottle brush.

 

[DairyDictator]

I don’t think the powders I would have this problem, but that would be a major royal pain in the ass.

And the problem is that every other iteration that Paul tried except for the Dixie cup, led to kernels bouncing out during the bulk dump.

So I can envision this being another big problem brewing

I know this is a somewhat flippant response, but it seems like a stupid simple part for injection molding (yes, I know it's an upfront investment). I have no other complaints about the design so far.

 

[vh20]

Not to derail the current conversation, but I picked up a powder cup and it came in today. So far it does a great job at keeping kernels inside the cup and the shape is pretty well designed.

EDIT: Coating the inside with graphite powder seems to have solved this issue.

There's one crippling flaw in my opinion. The inside flexible material should not be 3d printed, or requires some chemical post processing. Printing leaves a rough texture that makes dumping powder out of the cup a royal pain.

Here's what's typically left of N135 if I dump powder out like I would with a 419 or AT cup:
View attachment 8565169View attachment 8565170

Here's what I typically get after spending ~3-5s tapping on my funnel

View attachment 8565171

Here's why I think that's happening, notice the ridges

View attachment 8565172

Might seem like a relatively small gripe but it opens up a lot of opportunity for me to spill measured powder, and adds a lot of time to the process. Basically leaves me with no spilled kernels, but adds a half hour or more to my overall powder drop time, and makes me less confident in what's in the case.

THIS is exactly what I feared would be the case when I saw the final design. Wiping the cup with a used dryer anti-static sheet may fix it, but you shouldn’t have to in the first place.

 

[DairyDictator]

THIS is exactly what I feared would be the case when I saw the final design. Wiping the cup with a used dryer anti-static sheet may fix it, but you shouldn’t have to in the first place.

Tried that first and it wasn't enough. Graphite seems to be working tho.

 

[John Glidewell]

I use the aluminum top off a bottle of tin cup Bourbon on one of my scales. Powder does not stick.

 

[akh223]

NeoLube applied with the 2oz bottle brush.

Good idea....I hadnt thought of the liquid graphite, but should do the same trick as the powdered graphite.

 

[NiteQwill]

The best cups I have used with my existing ATV3+IP system are the bottom two. One is a stainless shot glass and the other is some hybrid 3D printed porcelain. Both are smooth AF. With zero kernel bounce.

 

[Evintos]

It is not the wiper causing the issue it’s the odd shaped kernels getting jammed against the side(housing)of the trickler and the plates.

It looks like you had the 7545 disc in your pic. Have you tried the 567 Disc?

 

[secondofangle2]

The best cups I have used with my existing ATV3+IP system are the bottom two. One is a stainless shot glass and the other is some hybrid 3D printed porcelain. Both are smooth AF. With zero kernel bounce.

View attachment 8565376

My recollection is that bounce out of the cup was more pronounced with the IP because it is a full gravity drop of the entire mass in a fraction of a second, which is completely different than the V3.

 

[NiteQwill]

My recollection is that bounce out of the cup was more pronounced with the IP because it is a full gravity drop of the entire mass in a fraction of a second, which is completely different than the V3.

All of the systems have issues with bounce. The design of the cup is always the solution. In speaking of the porcelain cup I listed, it's not only the material but also the bottom of the cup and tapered sides. I think the cup name lives up to the "dead drop."

 

[LR1845]

It looks like you had the 7545 disc in your pic. Have you tried the 567 Disc?

View attachment 8565381

I have not but will...I am not sure if I that disk if not I will order one.

 

[DairyDictator]

All of the systems have issues with bounce. The design of the cup is always the solution. In speaking of the porcelain cup I listed, it's not only the material but also the bottom of the cup and tapered sides. I think the cup name lives up to the "dead drop."
View attachment 8565408

What version do you have? Not sure what the difference between the V3 and the V4 cup is.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

The best cups I have used with my existing ATV3+IP system are the bottom two. One is a stainless shot glass and the other is some hybrid 3D printed porcelain. Both are smooth AF. With zero kernel bounce.

View attachment 8565376

Thanks for the pictures. I hadn't seen those cups.

 

[NiteQwill]

What version do you have? Not sure what the difference between the V3 and the V4 cup is.

The only difference is the spacer that's provided. Center vs offset on the platen. I have the V3 version. It works with both the area419 upgrades and stock v3 parts

To verify, I would ask the seller.

AutroTrickler V3 Upgrade - Powder Cup "Dead Drop" - V3 POWDER PAN - REV B | eBay

The pour is very smooth with channeling features that help guide the powder into your case or funnel. AutoTrickler V3 “Dead Drop” Powder Cup - REV B - UPGRADED VERSION! This cup is for V3, but will work with the V4.

www.ebay.com

 

[Maurygold]

The only difference is the spacer that's provided. Center vs offset on the platen. I have the V3 version. It works with both the area419 upgrades and stock v3 parts

To verify, I would ask the seller.

AutroTrickler V3 Upgrade - Powder Cup "Dead Drop" - V3 POWDER PAN - REV B | eBay

The pour is very smooth with channeling features that help guide the powder into your case or funnel. AutoTrickler V3 “Dead Drop” Powder Cup - REV B - UPGRADED VERSION! This cup is for V3, but will work with the V4.

www.ebay.com

I despise the kernels bouncing out of my 419 cup i am going to give this a try

 

[Kiba]

This is N150 stopping the trickler…it dumped 4.96g and bound up…after the powder settles in it get worse…I made a video but can’t post it from my phone.

Odd sized kernels wedging between the base of the notch in the disc and the outside of the housing and binding/stopping the disc has been an issue since the IP trickler was first sold, I’ve been dealing with it from the beginning as my IP trickler came from the very first shipment.

Some powder and disc combos bind up worse than others. I always end up moving the pulley arm away and then rotating the disc by hand to free it up, then letting go of the lever so the trickler can finish on its own. I’ve also found that the binding seems to happen more often when you put too much powder in the trickler.

One solution I see would be to make all the discs like the 705 ball powder disc, except replace the holes in the 705 disc with appropriately sized rectangular cutouts for extruded powders—but like the 705 ball powder disc leave a full circumference of disc material around the edge of the disc. That way the kernels can never contact the side of the housing and wedge/stop the disc, they’re always fully contained in the rectangular cutout in the disc.

However, even with a really good laser cutter I would expect production/yield problems with manufacturing such a disc... I would expect possible yield issues from that thin remaining piece of material around the circumference of the disc likely doing weird things from the heat affected zone during cutting and causing flatness issues or even burn through. Might have to go to a 2-step process where the initial disc is oversized on the OD, then the rectangular cutouts are lasered so there is excess material beyond the heat affected zone, and then the OD can be final cut after the laser cutting process… and after that I’m sure it will still require a straightening operation.

Another possible issue is stick powders may not be “picked up” as easily from the pile of powder with small rectangular windows vs the current open ended notch design.

Just throwing ideas around, it would have to be fabricated and tested. Kernels wedging between the disc and the hopper and binding the disc are certainly a problem and have been since day 1.

Something like this might stop the binding, can't get kernels wedged between the notch and the inside of the hopper if the kernels can't touch the outside of the hopper.

Back somewhat on topic, any bets on delivery date if I placed a pre-order today?

I still haven't pre-ordered, lol. Going to wait for feedback from the first shipments...

 

[Schütze]

The only difference is the spacer that's provided. Center vs offset on the platen. I have the V3 version. It works with both the area419 upgrades and stock v3 parts

To verify, I would ask the seller.

AutroTrickler V3 Upgrade - Powder Cup "Dead Drop" - V3 POWDER PAN - REV B | eBay

The pour is very smooth with channeling features that help guide the powder into your case or funnel. AutoTrickler V3 “Dead Drop” Powder Cup - REV B - UPGRADED VERSION! This cup is for V3, but will work with the V4.

www.ebay.com

Ordered one as well, thanks for sharing!

 

[jthor]

For my AT3+IP I just 3D printed a quick add on nozzle to the thrower and it eliminated a good majority of any kernels bouncing out of the A419 cup.

 

[jimsair]

I'm using IP disk 7545. With all the powders I mentioned. I didn't even notice that Paul suggests a different disk for N150.

My N150 is dated 30.08.2023
Varget is dated June of 2021

Attached picture is N150

 

[mmlook]

It looks like you had the 7545 disc in your pic. Have you tried the 567 Disc?

View attachment 8565381

this, use the 567 disk and it gets a lot better

also replace the red O ring if you haven’t in a while

i’ve dispensed about 30lbs of N135, N150, and N160 with the 567 disk.

it still binds some times, but nothing crazy that can’t be cleared with a simple 1/4 twist by hand

 

[Baron23]

I'm using IP disk 7545. With all the powders I mentioned. I didn't even notice that Paul suggests a different disk for N150.

My N150 is dated 30.08.2023
Varget is dated June of 2021

Attached picture is N150

And...or did I miss it....how does the N150 work with your 7545 plate?

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

The only difference is the spacer that's provided. Center vs offset on the platen. I have the V3 version. It works with both the area419 upgrades and stock v3 parts

To verify, I would ask the seller.

AutroTrickler V3 Upgrade - Powder Cup "Dead Drop" - V3 POWDER PAN - REV B | eBay

The pour is very smooth with channeling features that help guide the powder into your case or funnel. AutoTrickler V3 “Dead Drop” Powder Cup - REV B - UPGRADED VERSION! This cup is for V3, but will work with the V4.

www.ebay.com

So you got it on ebay and it fits the 419 platen? I'm gonna get one if it stops the bounce. That's the only issue I have with my ip+v3 set up

 

[NiteQwill]

So you got it on ebay and it fits the 419 platen? I'm gonna get one if it stops the bounce. That's the only issue I have with my ip+v3 set up

Correct. It's a damn near perfect fit on the area419 platen.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Correct. It's a damn near perfect fit on the area419 platen.

Sweet. I'm gonna get that going now

 

[NiteQwill]

Sweet. I'm gonna get that going now

I can try to snap a photo later tonight when I get home

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I can try to snap a photo later tonight when I get home

I ordered it and I'm pretty sure it's the same one you got from your review so I think I'm good. If this cup can resolve that little issue it will be huge!

 

[NiteQwill]

Just for people to reference, this is what it looks like with the area419 setup. Hope this helps!

@BuildingConceptsllc

 

[HemiPowrd]

The estimated shipping date was updated on the IP order page:

This is a no obligation preorder. You will get an order number and when they are ready to ship your payment notification will go out in the order they were received. The current estimate for orders to start shipping is 1st quarter 2025. Thank everyone who has placed a preorder and been so patient for this to come out. We are getting close now.

 

[Jrb572]

The estimated shipping date was updated on the IP order page:

So January-March sometime? Kind of figured that.

My bet is it will go past that.

 

[Smokenaces]

 

[nalye]

The estimated shipping date was updated on the IP order page:

This edging is usually found in other kind of communities...

 

[Jrb572]

Hey I will give him a thumbs up for at least changing the date on his site.