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Ingenuity Precision trickler
- Thread starter NiteQwill
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I changed the hopper top for many reasons.
Gluing the polycarbonate tube into the aluminum valve body was going to be a big assembly bottle neck and it made it much taller.
This design has a twist lock thread to the valve body which has many positives including:
Replaceable if need be, screw on lids are very cheap already made, easily upgradable to larger hopper if wanted, adapters to say 1lb bottles if wanted, and it can be removed for easier and smaller packaging.
Gluing the polycarbonate tube into the aluminum valve body was going to be a big assembly bottle neck and it made it much taller.
This design has a twist lock thread to the valve body which has many positives including:
Replaceable if need be, screw on lids are very cheap already made, easily upgradable to larger hopper if wanted, adapters to say 1lb bottles if wanted, and it can be removed for easier and smaller packaging.
pyrex can never have threads. And I didn't want to deal with broken glass in shipments.
Dramworx makes aftermarket Pyrex hoppers with an aluminum adapter for a lot of powder measures.
The ones made for the existing ATV3 are neither tall nor heavy. In addition, he makes custom sizes at customer request.
I doubt it. Cost wise savings is negligible when comparing price between the acrylic tube and 3d printed part.
When compared to what Paul has designed it will be taller and heavier. If Dramworx had to make an adapter that will add height. Plus with the diameter of glass that has been used on V2 and V3 kits in the past it would definitely be taller to equal the same amount of powder. Plus the glass is just heavier.
Earlier in the design for this setup Paul considered using borosilicate glass. The cost per piece was considerable. Then he would have to deal with something that could break in shipping.
Things are real close. It’s mostly down to getting production pieces right.
I assume, given Paul's sensitivity to static issues ect, that the new plastic scew on hopper won't have any issues with static or staining??? I mean I love my dramwork hopper but having one that is shorter and fatter that doesn't break sounds pretty dang good to me.
( fit on a counter top with upper cabinet doors not hitting the hopper when you open the door)
I'd be willing to bet that dramworx will make one with an aluminum adapter if there's enough interest so that anyone who wants a Pyrex one could have one.
What would be the potential disadvantages of having a printed clear plastic one though, assuming static and all isn't an issue?
( fit on a counter top with upper cabinet doors not hitting the hopper when you open the door)
I'd be willing to bet that dramworx will make one with an aluminum adapter if there's enough interest so that anyone who wants a Pyrex one could have one.
What would be the potential disadvantages of having a printed clear plastic one though, assuming static and all isn't an issue?
Staining would be the biggest issue, outside of static. There would be no way to avoid it.
I'm not sure about that with that particular type of plastic. He said it was like a water bottle type of material and my guys literally use water bottles to put all kinds of various things in and they never stain. Now it could be that I've not ever seen anything in a bottle long enough to stain it of course. Also I know some plastic type materials are very good with static but I don't know which is which. I know that Paul is very aware of static and the real causes/issues with it so I doubt he's putting something on this machine that will have issues but I'm really just curious. The Pyrex is nice to use but I've broken 2 now so it would be nice to have one that doesn't break. My experience with dramworx is that they will make you whatever you want so if folks want a Pyrex one I feel sure they will do it anyway so should be a non issue either way.
If the biggest complaint about the system is the cheap, easily replaced powder hopper gets stained over time, I think we're splitting hairs at this point.
If you're going from a hopper that doesn't stain or have issues with static, for the same package price, to a 3D printed version that you are going to replace for an additional cost to avoid breaking on shipping, it's probably not splitting hairs.
I'm assuming static won't be an issue, as Paul has been extremely careful with it. As far as staining goes, so what? If the still perfectly functional hopper turns a nasty color over the course of months on a part that would probably cost less than dinner, I fail to see how that's a huge issue. That has been the situation for Dillon powder meters forever. If it really bothers a guy, I'm sure someone will make an expensive solution for guys that want something like a dramworx hopper.
Don't leave powder in it! Your powder should be kept in containers where humidity can be kept a constant. Not out in the dispenserI haven't met a powder hopper that hasn't stained if you left powder in it (other than pyrex). But maybe this one will be different.
It never was going to be glass. It has just changed from one plastic to another that is better in all the ways I said.
If you live in the southwest, you don't want to try to hold on to the moisture content the powder shipped with. You want to homogenize it with your drier climate. It gives you faster velocity with less pressure.
The only reason I ever leave powder in my hopper is because it's such a pain in the butt get it all out of the hopper, and I may load more in a day or two. I think we all pretty well try not to do that though. Since that very issue of difficulty to dump/ clean out hopper, has been addressed/improved , with the many other little things in the design of this thing, I very much doubt I will ever leave powder in this thing anyway.
Not everyone lives in the same climate and some people can do different things based on their reloading setups. With that said, when it can be avoided, yes remove the powder.
It does not give you faster velocity with less pressure. There is no magic like that.
Some of us, and dare, I say most, are using humidity packs to maintain the powder at its manufactured humidity
Plus, the optimal humidity for the powder should not depend upon the arbitrary variable of where you live. One could also recommend that people in Florida put desiccant packs in their powder to dry it out. But not a single rational soul is doing that.
I keep mine with packs but maintain 50-55% humidity in my loading room where it's all stored so, all my powder should be pretty much at that level anyway right? Not sure what other parts of the country have for interior conditioned space but I assume whatever it is would be what their powder would settle to.
Somewhere around 50% is most likely to be on the mark I’d say.
Def don’t leave it in your dispenser else those loads will be different from those loaded with a new container of your ambient humidity is not ~50%
(All this may be incorrect, but in the current state of knowledge it seems the most reasonable course.)
Def don’t leave it in your dispenser else those loads will be different from those loaded with a new container of your ambient humidity is not ~50%
(All this may be incorrect, but in the current state of knowledge it seems the most reasonable course.)
Yeah, everything I've read about it says that manufacturers and best storage are around 50/55%
Wow, I’m sorry to say but some of the recent asks (er, whiny demands?) about the powder hopper are ridiculous.
Just don’t leave powder in the hopper. If you do it will inevitably turn brown and even blister (aside from a glass one). If you don’t care, then let it. If you do care but feel emptying your hopper is too much of a PIA, then just plan on buying replacements.
Of all the features of a powder measure like the Ingenuity, the material of the hopper is of least concern to me personally.
As for the guy who wants his powder to dry out…then dry it. I don’t think it’s a great idea but you do you. However, I don’t feel that such a rather odd consideration should drive Paul’s material decisions in any way.
By the by, “Pyrex” is a commercial brand of borosilicate glass material.
I’m happy with a plastic that is lighter and far less fragile
Just don’t leave powder in the hopper. If you do it will inevitably turn brown and even blister (aside from a glass one). If you don’t care, then let it. If you do care but feel emptying your hopper is too much of a PIA, then just plan on buying replacements.
Of all the features of a powder measure like the Ingenuity, the material of the hopper is of least concern to me personally.
As for the guy who wants his powder to dry out…then dry it. I don’t think it’s a great idea but you do you. However, I don’t feel that such a rather odd consideration should drive Paul’s material decisions in any way.
By the by, “Pyrex” is a commercial brand of borosilicate glass material.
I’m happy with a plastic that is lighter and far less fragile
The most common plastic for water bottles is PET. The most common clear/translucent 3D filament is PETG. PET or PETG is not natively static resistant. They do make ESD PETG but as far as I know, none are clear/translucent. Still, even if it isn't static resistant, there are methods to reduce static.
FDM 3D printed hopper do the work (as long as there are no layer adhesion issues), but some people are willing to pay more for a Pyrex or polycarbonate or whatever material hopper. Some want to use 1lb containers with an adapter, some do not. It's basically the equivalent of people wanting or willing to pay for A419 billet aluminum Autotrickler accessories (A419 billet aluminum draft shield for the IP system anyone?).
Availability of options is what led to my question on potentially releasing dimensional specification on the the valve body/hopper twist lock thread specs so that the customer could source or fabricate a hopper or adapter out of their preferred material it on their own if it is not a present or future accessory.
The onus would be on the customer and not on Paul. I also understand how uncomfortable the release of any specs would make someone feel so no big deal if it doesn't happen. The spec release simply makes it easier for the customer.
Either way, someone will figure it out.
FDM 3D printed hopper do the work (as long as there are no layer adhesion issues), but some people are willing to pay more for a Pyrex or polycarbonate or whatever material hopper. Some want to use 1lb containers with an adapter, some do not. It's basically the equivalent of people wanting or willing to pay for A419 billet aluminum Autotrickler accessories (A419 billet aluminum draft shield for the IP system anyone?).
Availability of options is what led to my question on potentially releasing dimensional specification on the the valve body/hopper twist lock thread specs so that the customer could source or fabricate a hopper or adapter out of their preferred material it on their own if it is not a present or future accessory.
The onus would be on the customer and not on Paul. I also understand how uncomfortable the release of any specs would make someone feel so no big deal if it doesn't happen. The spec release simply makes it easier for the customer.
Either way, someone will figure it out.Paul can speak for himself but I wouldn’t release specs on my product. If you ever wanted to make more premium parts why would you freely give others the specs? Plus you don’t get compensated for shit you give away for free. Paul has put in an incredible amount of time and money getting his design to where it’s at now.
You know that literally when the product is released... The threading will be found instantly, right?
I was wondering if Paul's statement that the hopper "design has a twist lock thread" was really code for a proprietary locking system he has developed.....seems easier to me to go with standard stuff that the world has already settled on.
I don't think the thread that the powder hopper attaches with is going to give the unit an advantage in the market, so why not just use a standard thread that everyone else can make accessories for?
Because sometimes a normal thread just won’t work. Once you buy one you’ll see why.
And, of course, the flip side of this argument is that if this "magical thread" turns out to be "substandard" as determined by the market place, it will be very detrimental to IP's future.
If you/IP are going to be making claims like this, you'd better make sure that it is indeed superior to everything else out there before releasing it into the wild.
Honestly, the statement of "Once you buy one you’ll see why" sounds like something I'd expect to hear from nancy pelosi.
I can buy your argument if there were plans to offer more premium parts but judging from the response thus far, there's no plan or desire to do so (refer to lack of desire to deal with broken glass during shipment in previous post made by Paul), so the idea that giving away the twist lock thread specs as being a net negative is a hard sell.
I will make a simple comparison - Action manufacturers don't get compensated for releasing barrel tenon prints. Action company releases print so customer can buy whatever brand barrel and have a shouldered prefit made. Action company could refuse to release print because they want to sell their barrels with their actions, which would definitely be their prerogative, but the customer can still ultimately buy the action and the barrel blank of their choice and send it to a gun smith and have a gun smith figure it out. The action manufacturer is not the gun smith, so they do not capture the sale of labor. Nor are they the manufacturer of the particular barrel blank the customer purchased, so they do not capture the sale of a barrel blank.
Whether it's shouldered prefit or having to go the gun smith route, customer ends up 100% with the product they want and are willing to pay for and the action manufacturer still only captured the sale of the 1 product, that being the action.
Everything besides the thrower is just a failure point.
Please keep the hopper simple, with the ability to visually confirm clear central to the design.
The IP trickler itself is the showstopper....
Please keep the hopper simple, with the ability to visually confirm clear central to the design.
The IP trickler itself is the showstopper....
It is impregnated with Tesla AI nano chips and Elon Musks sperm tails and is constantly changing. Not possible to replicate
I just hope these 5 gallon containers fit…. or I’ll start whining….
Probably have static issues and will stain.
You can get those with glass bottles lol!
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