Gunsmithing Input on what happened to this brass...

[turbo54]

Most likely you wouldn't feel the brass enter the leade because of the gradual taper that makes up the leade. Once the bolt lugs make contact with the receiver the few thousandths of brass that gets crushed into the rifling/leade won't be noticable because of the considerable force needed to lock the bolt closed<<<pertains to all bolt actions too

What the hell are you talking about?

Gradual taper?

The forward end of the chamber's neck ends with a slight (~.020") 45º chamfer, where the free bore starts. A typical .338LM free bore is a non-rifled hole ~.3385" diameter, for a length of .200" or more. The gradual taper (~1.5º) begins forward of the freebore. So for the casemouth to be "leading into the gradual taper of the leade", it would have to be ~.200" too long....

Overly long brass that could conceivably pinch down enough onto a bullet to cause the rifle to become a frag grenade would certainly be able to "be felt" while closing the bolt. You'd have to hammer it closed.

 

[milo 2.0]

What the hell are you talking about?

Gradual taper?

The forward end of the chamber's neck ends with a slight (~.020") 45º chamfer, where the free bore starts. A typical .338LM free bore is a non-rifled hole ~.3385" diameter, for a length of .200" or more.

I think while typing I was listening to my ass instead of my brain.

 

[turbo54]

Any part of a .338 barrel that hasn't been touched by the reamer, measuring ."3385" is going to have rifling, the reamer pilot doesn't cut.

I guess I stand corrected. Thanks!

 

[insight3b]

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/169253/ptg-solid-pilot-chamber-finish-reamer-338-lapua-magnum

You can see the taper as I describe created in the leade by the chambering reamer. There has to be a taper or your projectile would have to be enclosed inside the case. If the case contacts the leade pressure spikes quickly and faster than the bullets release from the muzzle can take place. All that pressure MUST go somewhereand the steel of the barrel isn't strong enough to contain it. Handloaders usually understand this phenomenon better because we understand bullet jump to the lands...through the leade. If the case itself contacts the leade(the tapered start of the rifling) pressure increases exponentially.
Might be better described by Krieger in the paragraph following "5.56 NATO is NOT .223 Remington" here:
http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Proper_Reloading_Practices-c1246-wp7875.htm

And no you wouldn't need to hammer the bolt closed in fact you wouldn't even notice the slight resistance afforded by the case mouth entering the leade when you lock the bolt handle down

 

[milo 2.0]

Insight,
I agree with you on the ar platform.
But Turbo is right on bolt guns, if you can't feel it, it would be no more than putting a hardy crimp on your case, and I don't feel you could crimp a case enough to cause an explosion.
If it's that severe, you'll feel it, you may not know at the time what it is, but you should feel it. You can feel a bullet not seated deep enough.

 

[turbo54]

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/169253/ptg-solid-pilot-chamber-finish-reamer-338-lapua-magnum

You can see the taper as I describe created in the leade by the chambering reamer. There has to be a taper or your projectile would have to be enclosed inside the case. If the case contacts the leade pressure spikes quickly and faster than the bullets release from the muzzle can take place. All that pressure MUST go somewhereand the steel of the barrel isn't strong enough to contain it. Handloaders usually understand this phenomenon better because we understand bullet jump to the lands...through the leade. If the case itself contacts the leade(the tapered start of the rifling) pressure increases exponentially.
Might be better described by Krieger in the paragraph following "5.56 NATO is NOT .223 Remington" here:
http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Proper_Reloading_Practices-c1246-wp7875.htm

And no you wouldn't need to hammer the bolt closed in fact you wouldn't even notice the slight resistance afforded by the case mouth entering the leade when you lock the bolt handle down

Think you could use microsoft paint to label the reamer picture you posted, to explain to this ignorant fool where the brass is going in your theory?

 

[milo 2.0]

If this thread is going to get hijacked, I vote to bring back Sniper Aunt, I like her thinking!

 

[insight3b]

No more can you tell a few thounsandths difference when crimping a handload could you feel a few thousandths of the case mouth entering the leade...

 

[lanwickum]

I won't shoot other people's reloads or use their stuff either. Had a guy blow up a couple 25-06 rifles. He gave up reloading after that. Gave all the supplies to my dad. My dad gave it to me. I looked through his stuff mostly to see if I could find his problem. I found a box of bullets with .260 bullets missed in. I think I know why his guns kept blowing up. Strange thing is he never owned a .260 caliber in his life.

I bought some ammo at a gun show from a guy once. It was 44mag. Almost lost an eye from that. Fired 6 rounds. The last one put a shaving in my right ear. Stupid me wasn't wear eye protection. Every brass I had to force out of the cylinder. I found the guy and gave it back for my money back. He gave me a dumb look and said he will have to test fire it. I told him I wouldn't do that.

Glad you are ok. Hope you find the answers you are looking for. I tried to look at the pics of your powder. It does look like IMR 4064 or something mixed in. I had to take some H1000 then lay it beside others I have. IMR 4064 was closest from what I could tell. Pics are hard to see clearly.

 

[shoot4fun]

Looking at the pics of the brass and, as mentioned already, the lack of carbon in and out I am thinking that this particular round had way less than what it was supposed. That would cause an extreme pressure spike (explosion instead of controlled burn). I have seen a few revolvers fall to a similar fate.

 

[Fenix Mike]

I won't shoot other people's reloads or use their stuff either. Had a guy blow up a couple 25-06 rifles. He gave up reloading after that. Gave all the supplies to my dad. My dad gave it to me. I looked through his stuff mostly to see if I could find his problem. I found a box of bullets with .260 bullets missed in. I think I know why his guns kept blowing up. Strange thing is he never owned a .260 caliber in his life.

I bought some ammo at a gun show from a guy once. It was 44mag. Almost lost an eye from that. Fired 6 rounds. The last one put a shaving in my right ear. Stupid me wasn't wear eye protection. Every brass I had to force out of the cylinder. I found the guy and gave it back for my money back. He gave me a dumb look and said he will have to test fire it. I told him I wouldn't do that.

Glad you are ok. Hope you find the answers you are looking for. I tried to look at the pics of your powder. It does look like IMR 4064 or something mixed in. I had to take some H1000 then lay it beside others I have. IMR 4064 was closest from what I could tell. Pics are hard to see clearly.

I got the powder LOT number from the guy and sent it to hodgdon, the guy swears up and down its straight H1000 and he is still using it. I can take some better pics as well

 

[Fenix Mike]

Looking at the pics of the brass and, as mentioned already, the lack of carbon in and out I am thinking that this particular round had way less than what it was supposed. That would cause an extreme pressure spike (explosion instead of controlled burn). I have seen a few revolvers fall to a similar fate.

6 of the 8 rounds he loaded for me have within 1 grain of each other, im going to get the 7th back from my buddy, and the 8th is the one I posted on here it seems that according to most reloading manuals, it would have to be under 85 grains to be below spec so thats quite a bit of difference.

 

[shoot4fun]

I am talking way below, like maybe 60% under. That would let the powder get too far away from the primer spark and cause an explosion instead of a burn.

It happens.

 

[springer01]

I got the powder LOT number from the guy and sent it to hodgdon, the guy swears up and down its straight H1000 and he is still using it. I can take some better pics as well

Did they (Hodgdon) give you any response to the pictures of the powder?

 

[Layton]

I have no idea what I'm talking about but if the rifle was short chambered is there enough left of one side of the barrel to measure how long the chamber was compared to the rounds in question?

L

 

[Fenix Mike]

Did they (Hodgdon) give you any response to the pictures of the powder?

Not today, I will have to call them tomorrow. They asked for pics of the brass and headstamp though, so sounds like they are looking into something.

 

[Fenix Mike]

The barrel is split in half from the chamber to about 12 inches out, I asked the gun company for the rifle back a few days ago so I could have it looked at but havent heard anything from them.

 

[tylerw02]

The barrel is split in half from the chamber to about 12 inches out, I asked the gun company for the rifle back a few days ago so I could have it looked at but havent heard anything from them.

If they refuse to get it back in a timely manner, you could always tell them you're going to report it stolen to their local sheriff. I've heard of that working with smiths that weren't cooperative.

 

[shoot4fun]

The owner sent the rifle, willingly, to the manufacturer for assessment. It is standard practice that the manufacturer will keep it until they have made that assessment and (if possible) repairs. Since this rifle is not repairable I am sure the manufacturer is going thru some very time consuming metallurgical testing to make sure they do not have an issue. They are not bound to return the rifle until that testing is complete and I have seen that take three months. You are giving bad advise that will only strain any chances of agreement between owner and manufacturer. The faster they return the rifle the less chance owner has to be compensated at all by them.
I work in the industry and see your approach fail at every attempt. In fact, if you would report something stolen that you gave permission for them to possess then you would likely get an ambulance chaser to sue them no matter what they do. So wouldn't you want your ass covered by the facts if it was you in their position?
The OP has taken the high road here and I commend him for it (regardless of my employment).

 

[diverdon]

The owner sent the rifle, willingly, to the manufacturer for assessment. It is standard practice that the manufacturer will keep it until they have made that assessment and (if possible) repairs. Since this rifle is not repairable I am sure the manufacturer is going thru some very time consuming metallurgical testing to make sure they do not have an issue. They are not bound to return the rifle until that testing is complete and I have seen that take three months. You are giving bad advise that will only strain any chances of agreement between owner and manufacturer. The faster they return the rifle the less chance owner has to be compensated at all by them.
I work in the industry and see your approach fail at every attempt. In fact, if you would report something stolen that you gave permission for them to possess then you would likely get an ambulance chaser to sue them no matter what they do. So wouldn't you want your ass covered by the facts if it was you in their position?
The OP has taken the high road here and I commend him for it (regardless of my employment).

Shoot4fun, I agree with everything you said. But I would like to add that the manufacturer is not the owner, and the owner may take his property back at any time. Thus the manufacturer should at the least keep the owner apprised of their plans and procedure.

 

[fx77]

AS an academic exercise which would cost you more than your current financial losses , there are Failure analysis engineering firms who could analyze the rifle and brass for an expensive fee
However from a legal point of view, you cannot prove with unassailable evidence, that the pressure or the content of your load did not exceed specifications and standards.

That would hang U up in any litigation...
Hopefully you were not in any way injured by this experience.

 

[Fenix Mike]

AS an academic exercise which would cost you more than your current financial losses , there are Failure analysis engineering firms who could analyze the rifle and brass for an expensive fee
However from a legal point of view, you cannot prove with unassailable evidence, that the pressure or the content of your load did not exceed specifications and standards.

That would hang U up in any litigation...
Hopefully you were not in any way injured by this experience.

Thats the downside is the round is already fired so too late to analyze it...

 

[Layton]

Is there a way to have the powder from the pulled rounds analyzed by Hodgon or a local resource? Reading through there appears to still be questions hanging with the pics you posted.

L

 

[Badshot308]

Thats the downside is the round is already fired so too late to analyze it...

A lab may be able to analyze the residue from either the barrel or the fired case to see if there was indeed another powder mixed in with the H1000. If that can be proven, it takes more liability off the rifle/barrel manufacturer. Also, since you've pulled the bullets from the other rounds in your possession, measure the case length with a pair of dial or digital calipers and list their length. Sierra lists a case length of 2.724", with a trim to length of 2.714". Since case mouth being jammed into the chamber has been brought up, I'm curious to see what these cases were trimmed to.

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Fenix, I'm happy to see you are still pursuing the cause of your accident. Would you consider posting representative measurements of both your rounds and your buddy's rounds? In addition to mixed powders, speculation centers around chamber and round dimensions. The images of your NF scope also suggest the rifle broke apart at the forward end of the receiver, as do the pictures of the exploded case with the brass curled from the neck backwards.

The summary of potential causes in my head is:

* Mixture of powders, causing uneven burn and a pressure spike (would need a mixed-powder burn model to fully evaluate this).

* Blockage at the front of the chamber:
- Long case neck and short chamber throat: case neck stuck into the lands, unable to expand normally to release gas pressure.
- Narrow chamber throat and/or thick case neck diameter of loaded round: neck unable to expand normally to release gas pressure.
- Long COAL and/or short chamber throat: bullet jammed into lands causing a pressure spike at ignition.

* Very low powder fill: Poor powder ignition and burn, bullet not pushed quickly down the barrel leading to overpressure spike.

Occasionally I find cases where my powder fill is unexpectedly very low. If I didn't check every filled case I wouldn't have discovered the low fill. How low is dangerously low? I dunno, maybe not at all.

PS A microscopic evaluation of the powder could be done easily. If the exploded round contained a mixture of powders you can probably stop there, even without a mixed powder burn model. I'm guessing that small amounts of a fast buring powder (like pistol powder) could accelerate the ignition of a slow burning powder like H1000, producing a pressure spike. If your buddy also handloads for a pistol, did he accidently dump the last of the pistol powder back into the wrong power jug? If so, the contaminated jug would not be a homogenous mix, but could have "hot spots" with more pistol powder.

 

[demolitionman]

Boy, that Sux! Glad you are okay!
I hope you can get this issue resolved favorably!

I am headed back downstairs to recheck my loading area. I try to keep it neat and only have one process going at a time.

Yeh! After reading this thread, I'm doing the same thing! Gotta keep it all tidy and neat. Wow, this is a serious wake up call to all reloaders to check, check and check again. This thread is the stuff I have nightmares about! Eeeeek. Thank god no one is hurt.

 

[Fenix Mike]

Is there a way to have the powder from the pulled rounds analyzed by Hodgon or a local resource? Reading through there appears to still be questions hanging with the pics you posted.

L

Im still waiting to hear back from Hodgdon after they requested the brass pic... although even if they give me an answer in my favor, I have a feeling it will still come down to "well even though 7 rounds were 1 way, that one you fired could be another"

 

[Fenix Mike]

A lab may be able to analyze the residue from either the barrel or the fired case to see if there was indeed another powder mixed in with the H1000. If that can be proven, it takes more liability off the rifle/barrel manufacturer. Also, since you've pulled the bullets from the other rounds in your possession, measure the case length with a pair of dial or digital calipers and list their length. Sierra lists a case length of 2.724", with a trim to length of 2.714". Since case mouth being jammed into the chamber has been brought up, I'm curious to see what these cases were trimmed to.

I will check them tomorrow, I have a bunch of once fired brass I bought from the same guy who made the rounds for me, as well as 10 of the PPU brass shot through this gun.

 

[Fenix Mike]

Fenix, I'm happy to see you are still pursuing the cause of your accident. Would you consider posting representative measurements of both your rounds and your buddy's rounds? In addition to mixed powders, speculation centers around chamber and round dimensions. The images of your NF scope also suggest the rifle broke apart at the forward end of the receiver, as do the pictures of the exploded case with the brass curled from the neck backwards.

The summary of potential causes in my head is:

* Mixture of powders, causing uneven burn and a pressure spike (would need a mixed-powder burn model to fully evaluate this).

* Blockage at the front of the chamber:
- Long case neck and short chamber throat: case neck stuck into the lands, unable to expand normally to release gas pressure.
- Narrow chamber throat and/or thick case neck diameter of loaded round: neck unable to expand normally to release gas pressure.
- Long COAL and/or short chamber throat: bullet jammed into lands causing a pressure spike at ignition.

* Very low powder fill: Poor powder ignition and burn, bullet not pushed quickly down the barrel leading to overpressure spike.

Occasionally I find cases where my powder fill is unexpectedly very low. If I didn't check every filled case I wouldn't have discovered the low fill. How low is dangerously low? I dunno, maybe not at all.

PS A microscopic evaluation of the powder could be done easily. If the exploded round contained a mixture of powders you can probably stop there, even without a mixed powder burn model. I'm guessing that small amounts of a fast buring powder (like pistol powder) could accelerate the ignition of a slow burning powder like H1000, producing a pressure spike. If your buddy also handloads for a pistol, did he accidently dump the last of the pistol powder back into the wrong power jug? If so, the contaminated jug would not be a homogenous mix, but could have "hot spots" with more pistol powder.

Some good points, ive pressed the guy who made the rounds pretty hard and the answer is still all from the same lot, and he still currently loads from that can for his other rifles. What measurements were you looking for? I have the OAL of the rounds he made, and can measure brass, as well as have all the bullet weights, powder weights etc. All were matching Lapua brass.

 

[Layton]

How about taking the powder from the pulled rounds and compare it visually to the can he's saying he poured it from?

 

[bodywerks]

I agree. That's a potpourri of powders IMO.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[Layton]

Given the rifle had 200 rounds already through it, so it shot fine for 200 rounds and probabilities are this wasn't a problem with the rifle. Hodgon has also said it's impossible to blow up a a 338 like that with H1000 so that rifle would have to have some pretty bad problems to result is this outcome which should have shown in those first 200 rounds. The brass that the round exploded is Lapua so most likely is in spec. And the pics you posted of the powder looks like it could be mixed. Barring an obstruction in the barrel, at this stage all evidence points to that powder charge. Just rambling thoughts here.

 

[agbm]

The picture you posted shows a mixture of two types of powders, H1000 and something else unknown to members and you. I can see two types of kernals there, all the kernals should all be same size/shape. If by chance that is the same mixture that was in the round that destroyed your rifle, I hate to say this but you would need to go after the reloader for your loses. If you speak to anyone about what can happen when two types of powders are mixed together that are not the same type, they would tell you that what happend to your rifle is is a prime example. See if hodgdon can determine what the second powder is. I would ask the reloader if I could stop by and we both look through his powders to see if we could match up the other unknown powder. Just be very thankful you are alive and you were not hurt in anyway.

Also ask the reloader for that container of powder if he still has it to compare with what came out of the ammo you got!!!!!

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Some good points, ive pressed the guy who made the rounds pretty hard and the answer is still all from the same lot, and he still currently loads from that can for his other rifles. What measurements were you looking for? I have the OAL of the rounds he made, and can measure brass, as well as have all the bullet weights, powder weights etc. All were matching Lapua brass.

Useful measurements would be (1) neck diameters of the loaded rounds; (2) lengths of the necks, from where ithe neck cylinder meets the shoulder to the mouth; (3) lengths of the unloaded cases; and (4) COALs of both rounds. When I say "loaded rounds", I mean one of yours and one loaded by your buddy.

 

[Pinecone]

For a while Ford was voiding warranties to those using aftermarket oil filters in their engines when they had a catastrophic failure, Hyundai and others now follow the same rules... How would you feel if a dealer told you your engine is junk and based on the fact that you had a mobil 1 filter instead of Ford/Hyundai etc that your warranty was voided regardless of the failure, and did not provide sufficient proof either way?

I have not seen a car company void warranty over USING an aftermarket oil filter. In fact, they CAN NOT, unless they can show that it was the direct cause of the failure. Look up the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

What they did due was tell people that if they used an aftermarket oil filter, and IT failed, they would not cover it under warranty. At least one car I purchased, they named names as to the oil filters that had failed and destroyed engines.

 

[Layton]

I would ask the reloader if I could stop by and we both look through his powders to see if we could match up the other unknown powder. Just be very thankful you are alive and you were not hurt in anyway.

Also ask the reloader for that container of powder if he still has it to compare with what came out of the ammo you got!!!!!

I'd also walk through his process with him. Does he use a chargemaster or such that he could of forgotten to clean out and dumped h1000 on top of leftovers from a previous load? Pistol load? Does he remember what the previous load was and powder? Can you compare to what you've pulled? etc.

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

The picture you posted shows a mixture of two types of powders, H1000 and something else unknown to members and you. I can see two types of kernals there, all the kernals should all be same size/shape. If by chance that is the same mixture that was in the round that destroyed your rifle, I hate to say this but you would need to go after the reloader for your loses. If you speak to anyone about what can happen when two types of powders are mixed together that are not the same type, they would tell you that what happend to your rifle is is a prime example. See if hodgdon can determine what the second powder is. I would ask the reloader if I could stop by and we both look through his powders to see if we could match up the other unknown powder. Just be very thankful you are alive and you were not hurt in anyway.

Also ask the reloader for that container of powder if he still has it to compare with what came out of the ammo you got!!!!!

I agree with agbm. Getting samples of the other powders your buddy uses would allow you (or someone else) to compare the odd kernels you see in the powder recovered from the 338LM ammo. Remember this: the absence of a similar accident in your buddy's rifle doesn't prove that mixed powders are not the cause of your gross accident. If he dumped some faster burning powder from his Chargemaster into the H1000 jug by mistake, the mixture would be inhomogeneous unless he purposely mixed them by shaking the H1000 jug thoroughly.

 

[Fenix Mike]

Given the rifle had 200 rounds already through it, so it shot fine for 200 rounds and probabilities are this wasn't a problem with the rifle. Hodgon has also said it's impossible to blow up a a 338 like that with H1000 so that rifle would have to have some pretty bad problems to result is this outcome which should have shown in those first 200 rounds. The brass that the round exploded is Lapua so most likely is in spec. And the pics you posted of the powder looks like it could be mixed. Barring an obstruction in the barrel, at this stage all evidence points to that powder charge. Just rambling thoughts here.

20 rounds, not 200... This rifle lasted me 3 hours.

 

[Fenix Mike]

The picture you posted shows a mixture of two types of powders, H1000 and something else unknown to members and you. I can see two types of kernals there, all the kernals should all be same size/shape. If by chance that is the same mixture that was in the round that destroyed your rifle, I hate to say this but you would need to go after the reloader for your loses. If you speak to anyone about what can happen when two types of powders are mixed together that are not the same type, they would tell you that what happend to your rifle is is a prime example. See if hodgdon can determine what the second powder is. I would ask the reloader if I could stop by and we both look through his powders to see if we could match up the other unknown powder. Just be very thankful you are alive and you were not hurt in anyway.

Also ask the reloader for that container of powder if he still has it to compare with what came out of the ammo you got!!!!!

Actually quite a few of the specialists I spoke with mix powder and use H1000 as a base, and mix a faster powder to increase velocity. Im not saying it is right, just saying many do it.

 

[Fenix Mike]

I have not seen a car company void warranty over USING an aftermarket oil filter. In fact, they CAN NOT, unless they can show that it was the direct cause of the failure. Look up the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

What they did due was tell people that if they used an aftermarket oil filter, and IT failed, they would not cover it under warranty. At least one car I purchased, they named names as to the oil filters that had failed and destroyed engines.

Pinecone, ive been in the industry for over 15 years, the magnuson moss act is only as good as your attorney, and the amount of money you have to fight the car company. Short answer is you wont win. Ive personally given the bad news to quite a few people that their $60,000 investment wont be covered due to the aftermarket filter or filter system (either cheap filters, or things like the Amsoil systems), and the news was given by Ford/GM/whoever by looking at the vehicle for about 5 min and making a decision. I also had a similar problem happen to me 11 years ago and had to buy an engine. Just because theres a neat document and things for you to google doesnt mean any companies "follow the rules".

 

[Fenix Mike]

I'd also walk through his process with him. Does he use a chargemaster or such that he could of forgotten to clean out and dumped h1000 on top of leftovers from a previous load? Pistol load? Does he remember what the previous load was and powder? Can you compare to what you've pulled? etc.

I talked to him a few days ago and he was pretty vague, but swears up and down it was not mixed and still uses it, and the rounds worked fine for him. Im waiting to hear from Hodgdon before I ask him anything else just to see what they say.

 

[Badshot308]

Actually quite a few of the specialists I spoke with mix powder and use H1000 as a base, and mix a faster powder to increase velocity. Im not saying it is right, just saying many do it.

Ammunition companies have used blended powders. The huge difference between them and the home handloader is that the companies have the trained staff and the testing equipment to properly monitor the pressure curve as they experiment. When "Bubba" does this at home, either intentionally or by accident, the result can be a destroyed rifle and sometimes serious injuries. You got very lucky.

 

[mdharris68]

Glad you are ok. Learning a lot from this thread so I am tagging it to keep up with the outcome.

 

[Layton]

20 rounds, not 200... This rifle lasted me 3 hours.

Sorry, misread the original post. Lots to read and facts to keep straight on this thread.

 

[monteboy84]

Pinecone, ive been in the industry for over 15 years, the magnuson moss act is only as good as your attorney, and the amount of money you have to fight the car company. Short answer is you wont win. Ive personally given the bad news to quite a few people that their $60,000 investment wont be covered due to the aftermarket filter or filter system (either cheap filters, or things like the Amsoil systems), and the news was given by Ford/GM/whoever by looking at the vehicle for about 5 min and making a decision. I also had a similar problem happen to me 11 years ago and had to buy an engine. Just because theres a neat document and things for you to google doesnt mean any companies "follow the rules".

Voiding a warranty for an oil filter is absurd and corrupt, but you didn't use an 'aftermarket oil filter' on your rifle, you blended your own gasoline and blew the engine, which is something no car company could be asked to cover.

It sounds to me like your 'friend' is covering his own ass, the powder you showed earlier is very clearly blended with some other powder as compared to the pure H1000 that others posted pictures of. I'm curious to see the actual rifle, I'd send the powder to Hodgdon for analysis, but beyond that I'd call it case-closed and have a few shots of something strong to numb the pain of losing $5k in one shot.

-matt

 

[monteboy84]

For reference, this shows the difference between pure H1000 alongside what Mike pulled from one of the handloads. How can anyone say they're the same thing? You can clearly see the green/brown kernels of H1000 mixed with a greater amount of some other kernels that are gray/black, smaller diameter, and longer.

-matt

 

[FLIGHT762]

For reference, this shows the difference between pure H1000 alongside what Mike pulled from one of the handloads. How can anyone say they're the same thing? You can clearly see the green/brown kernels of H1000 mixed with a greater amount of some other kernels that are gray/black, smaller diameter, and longer.

-matt

That is a big difference between the two powder samples. Someway, somehow, it's terribly obvious the H-1000 powder in Fenix Mike's pulled round was mixed with another powder. Obviously from the catastrophic failure, a faster burning powder.

Mike, I'm glad that you weren't permanently hurt. You're out $5,000.00 worth of equipment that can be replaced. Your eyesight or life can't be replaced.

Iv'e been handloading for just over 40 years. I've caught a few small mistakes over the years with no serious mishaps except a blown primer or two. Just a few months ago, I violated a major rule and had two opened powder containers on the bench. I got busy, in a hurry, not paying attention and dumped a small amount powder into the wrong container. One was IMR 4064 and the other was Accurate XMR 4064. Even after so many years of reloading, I learned a lesson but I did violate a common rule.
If Hodgdon responds with their analysis of the H-1000 powder being mixed as what appears to be, I hope you and your friend can come to an amicable outcome.

 

[scatterbrains]

The mystery powder really looks like 3031 to me.

 

[Fenix Mike]

Well talked with the company today, looks like they are going to work with me Thanks for all the help everyone! Ive learned a bunch in the past 4 pages, hope this helped someone else along the way as well.

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Fenix, can you confirm that Hodgdon is analyzing the H1000 from the rounds in question?

PS From the side-by-side images of the two samples of H1000, it's clear to me that not only is there a mix of powders in the left sample, but there is a lot of the second powder. So, a lot hinges on the Hodgdon analysis IMO.

I used to own a couple Blaser rifles, which have had internet reports of blowing up when the receiver collet mechanism failed. I caught a Sig rep at a hunting expo in Reno one weekend and asked him about these reports. He told me only four accidents had been formally reported to Sig Blaser involving exploded receivers; all of them were thoroughly investigated and were found to be the result of incorrectly made handloads (wrong powder, too much of the right powder,...) or the wrong ammo (don't remember the details at this point). Even with the failures, the collet mechanism didn't fail and no one got a bolt in the face.