Range Report Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

[seankndy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Herr.Baer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I downloaded this app a few months ago and played around with it some at short range. Well last week I got to use it at various targets out to 1180 yards and the dope was spot on for all the target distances. Great program!! </div></div>
Thanks! Glad to hear it.

 

[seankndy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heavy barrel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a great app. Have a couple questions.
When entering the zero data what do I enter for height? Is that scope height?
What do I enter for powder temp?
Thanks,
Mike </div></div>
mattmcg answered the Powder Temp question. For Zero Height, see post @ http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1955886#Post1955886 -- if you're not sure what this is, chances are really good you just want to input 0 in this field.

 

[mattmcg]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seankndy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Yeah, the reason is because *really* there are only 2 options in Preferences. "Save Distance" and "Save Atmosphere".

Perhaps I should change this to "Save Last Inputs" as I think most people would want everything saved, thoughts? </div></div>

I think the "Save Last Inputs" is a great option. The most accurate data for any typical engagement will mostly be the latest data input into the system.

DOPE = Data On Previous Engagement

Makes sense to me!

 

[2500yards]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

I have a problem, I hope you can help me out with.

I finally got a chance to test out your app I bought a few months ago. I have updated it each and everytime it said update available. It seems to be off by just about 2 moa in elevation (too high).

Im not sure what would cause this, but I will give you my details entered and see if anything pops out at you. I was really hoping it would be spot on as its just about deer season.

Loaded up new loads of 77 GR Scenar .224 ammo.
24.3 gr. varget/ Lapua Brass (all measured/weighed)
1/7.7 26 inch barrel.
chronograph reads 2725-2755 fps @ 55 deg f.
I entered 2735 as the mv
MV Variation: Empty
Bullet Diameter: 0.224
Bullet Weight: 77.0
Bullet Length: 1.045
Atmosphere Std. ICAO
Powder temp: 55.0
Drag Model: G1
Coef: 0.34
Min. Velocity: 0/empty
Zero Range: 100
Zero Height: 0.0
Atmospheric Conditions: ON
Pressure Input Type: By Altitude
Altitude: 2400 ft
Temp: 45 deg F
Rel Humidity: 80.0%

-------- ZERO ---------

First went and zero'd the rifle at 100 yrds. shooting 1/2 moa 5 shot goups 3 in a row. "Good to go"

--------- TEST 1 --------

Went out to 322 yards, range finder measured (10 times before setting up).

Distance: 322 yards
Look Angle: 4 deg
Lead Speed: 0
Lead Angle: 90
Density Altitude: 2450 ft
Temp: 55 deg f
wind speed: 4 mph
Wind Angle: 10 oclock
Spin drift: on
Coriolis Effect: on
lat/Azmuth dont remember.


+++ RESULT +++ >> Approx: 6.5 inches high

, windage close to correct.


--------- TEST 2 --------

Went out to 447 yards, range finder measured (10 times before setting up).

Distance: 447 yards
Look Angle: 5 deg
Lead Speed: 0
Lead Angle: 90
Density Altitude: 2410 ft
Temp: 55 deg f
wind speed: 4 mph
Wind Angle: 10 oclock
Spin drift: on
Coriolis Effect: on
lat ??? / azmuth: ??? < dont remember.


+++ RESULT +++ >> approx: 8 inches high

, windage close to correct.

 

[2500yards]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Here were the scope settings from your app. I forgot to mention those.

@322 yards
+5.4 MOA elevation | +22 clicks
-1.3 MOA wind | -5 clicks

@447
+9.9 MOA | +40 clicks
-2.0 MOA | -8 clicks

 

[mattmcg]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

I think this is a simple example of garbage in, garbage out. So it should be simple to fix. The ballistics calculator within the program is very good so something is wonky on the input.

Here are a few suggestions to refine your data:
-Are you sure your chronograph data is accurate? I would personally recheck this as this could easily solve all your issue.

-When you chrono, double check your load temperature. With that, your loading technique needs to be examined. With your load being 77gr 223, I'm guessing an autoloader? Perhaps not but this applies to both bolt action and autoloader. You will need to single feed your rounds. Since a chambered round in a hot gun quickly heats up your round, you need to have the gun ready to fire, quickly single load, and fire right away through the chrono. You want as little heating effect as possible to maintain consistent velocity readings. Additionally, let the barrel cool between shots.

-Reverify the bullet that you're using. Also, make sure the BC is a trusted BC from someone like the "Litz" data. I like to manually enter this to be able to adjust the BC value down the road.

-Use G7 BC instead of G1. G7 is a better reference for your 77gr BT bullet and will allow a better trajectory calculation across all velocities down range.

-Turn off Coriolis. Frankly with the ranges you're shooting at, it won't matter so remove the complication.

-When you're in the field, double check Density Altitude to make sure its is correct.

If you can hone those items, you should have the output match almost exactly. Good luck.

 

[seankndy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

2500yards,

http://www.arcanamavens.com/LBSFiles/Shooting/Downloads/Programs/

And doesn't the 77gr .224 Scenar have a G1 BC of .402? Are you using DA correctly?

 

[2500yards]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mattmcg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think this is a simple example of garbage in, garbage out. So it should be simple to fix. The ballistics calculator within the program is very good so something is wonky on the input. ......
</div></div>

Im sure its something I am doing wrong on the input side of things.

The chrono was done yesterday, same temp, 20 rounds through it. It is as accurate as I would assume it to be.

I do single feed as all my rounds wont fit in the MAG.

I let the gun cool for approx. 2 min between shots as well.

I got the BC info from here: http://www.lapua.com/information/products/components/

They didnt show a .224 77gr so I used the .243 77 gr. BC. Is this the prob?


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seankndy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2500yards,

http://www.arcanamavens.com/LBSFiles/Shooting/Downloads/Programs/

And doesn't the 77gr .224 Scenar have a G1 BC of .402? Are you using DA correctly?</div></div>

Im lost. Are you sending me to school?

I couldnt find the 77gr .224 on Lapua's site, so I used the 77gr .243 BC of .340... In your expert opinion, if I change to G7 and use the .402 BC, will this fix me up? What do you mean by "using DA correctly"?

Thanks for your help guys. I was not trying to come across as being negative of the App, just trying to figure out why i am having this problem.

I appreciate any help here.

 

[seankndy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2500yards</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im lost. Are you sending me to school?

I couldnt find the 77gr .224 on Lapua's site, so I used the 77gr .243 BC of .340... In your expert opinion, if I change to G7 and use the .402 BC, will this fix me up? What do you mean by "using DA correctly"?

Thanks for your help guys. I was not trying to come across as being negative of the App, just trying to figure out why i am having this problem.

I appreciate any help here. </div></div>

I found the 77gr .224 on Lapua's site. Go to Downloads and download the centerfire brochure. In that PDF, you'll find the BCs of the bullets.

You can't just use another bullet's BC like that. A 77gr .243 bullet is not the same as a 77gr .224 bullet.

By "using DA correctly" I mean, do you understand what Density Altitude is?

 

[ssatt68]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Your BC input data is off .402 BC on the G1 drag model

 

[2500yards]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seankndy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
By "using DA correctly" I mean, do you understand what Density Altitude is?</div></div>

It that not supposed to be my altitude? I think that is what gets filled in via the GPS on the phone right?

 

[2500yards]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ssatt68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your BC input data is off .402 BC on the G1 drag model</div></div>

G1 or G7 ??

I get one guy saying G7, now you saying G1. just a bit confusing.

What is this G1 , G7 stuff anyhow?

 

[seankndy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

.402 is the G1 coefficient. Not G7.

G1 and G7 are drag models. The G7 drag model is designed for long-range boat tail bullets like your 77gr scenar. G7 basically models the trajectory of these type of bullets better than G1. You *can* still use a G1 BC for these and most manufacturers still only give you one G1 BC for these bullets, but that doesn't make it the *best* fit. If you wanna get a good understanding of this buy the book Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting by Bryan Litz. Also, read that link I sent you earlier in regards to your problem of inaccurate results from Shooter.

Density Altitude is not Altitude. I would suggest going into Preferences and turning off Density Altitude and just using altitude/baro pressure/temp/humidity.

Do a quick Google search to learn about what Density Altitude is and I'm sure you can find lots of information regarding G1 vs. G7 BCs too.

 

[herr.baer]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2500yards</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seankndy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
By "using DA correctly" I mean, do you understand what Density Altitude is?</div></div>

It that not supposed to be my altitude? I think that is what gets filled in via the GPS on the phone right? </div></div>

One thing I found about using the "pulled data" over manually entering the data from a Kestrel is that you need to know where the data is coming from. When I was out in Garrett County the phone was pulling data for McHenry Md. While this wasn't too far away it was at a much lower altitude from where I was shooting. Once I used the Kestrel data then the program was spot on.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

No, it's not your altitude. See:

Making Ballistic Cards Using Density Altitude

 

[AJBello]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Been using the program for a bit now, really liking it.

Is there a way to calculate target size if distance and size in mils is known? I found the "range calc" option where you enter target size and mil size and it gives you the distance, but what about finding unknown target size at a known lased distance? Ballistic FTE would do that and it was a nice option to have...

 

[mattmcg]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

AJBello,

I'm curious as to what this feature gives you while out in the field? Knowing the range makes sense for dope adjustments but why do you care about how big a target may be?

Not attacking, frankly I'm just curious.....

 

[HellsCanyonArmory]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Just curious guys, I haven't read the entire thread and didn't find it searching, but can the "Shooter" app be used with the LG Ally as well? Or only the Droid phones (X, incredible...etc)?

Mike

 

[seankndy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Should run fine on an LG Ally. I haven't tested it, but the Ally has Android 2.1 on it.

 

[AJBello]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mattmcg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">AJBello,

I'm curious as to what this feature gives you while out in the field? Knowing the range makes sense for dope adjustments but why do you care about how big a target may be?

Not attacking, frankly I'm just curious..... </div></div>

Biggest reason is for judging field practice shots on long range targets of opportunity (AKA rocks

). It's handy to know to a degree more than a guess what size the target is I'm shooting at. Is it 6", 12", etc? Sometimes hard to tell just by looking through a spotter. If I hit but off center on an 18" rock at 800 yards (or dirt patch or whatever) that might not be so good. If I hit but off center on a 6" rock at 800 well that's decent. Just nice to know.

It also would have been handy on my recent mule deer hunt. Was looking at a buck through my TMR equipped spotter and was curious how tall his rack was. I had a lased distance, and knew the mil value, I just wanted to know the height. Being able to just plug and play with Shooter would have been quick and easy. Ballistic FTE allows for this and I found it handy...

 

[seankndy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AJBello</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It also would have been handy on my recent mule deer hunt. Was looking at a buck through my TMR equipped spotter and was curious how tall his rack was.</div></div>
Just run down there with a tape measure.

 

[AJBello]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seankndy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Just run down there with a tape measure. </div></div>

Shoulda thought of that...

 

[herr.baer]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJohnson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just curious guys, I haven't read the entire thread and didn't find it searching, but can the "Shooter" app be used with the LG Ally as well? Or only the Droid phones (X, incredible...etc)?

Mike </div></div>

I run it on an Ally and it works great. I haven't had any issues with it.

 

[HellsCanyonArmory]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

How do you like your Ally as a phone? I'm more in the crowd of "buy once cry once" but as a full time broke ass college student that saving $250 could be REAL handy... if I don't spring for the Droid.

Mike

 

[Grump]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

I'm due for a new "smart"* phone end of January.

Before I go for another Android system or go back to a Palm**, answer me these:

1. Do ANY of the Android systems have a real address book that has first name, last name, street address and city and state and zip code, all as separate fields?

2. Do ANY of the Android systems allow you to really, truly, import a large address book from another system using a comma-separated values (CSV) file?

The Motorola Backflip/Google Contacts thing I have pretends to do #2 but doesn't really. And having the "name" be the whole name and no separation (and for this version, the list comes up by first name first and no other choice) is killing me.

I would not hesitate to go Android again if BOTH of these things were not an issue. It's the way I work and even a phone call to Motorola brought no satisfaction on importing my *existing* contacts list.

Any insights would be appreciated.

* I tried two others before the Backflip, and those phones were NOT smart!!! Specifically their so-called address books were mere phone number/name lists with clumsy and cumbersome attempts to add street address info to an inadequate proprietary database.

**Yes, I am aware of the reports of Palm's impending death, but their new OS appears to have given them a more valid renewed lease on life than the RIM-based CrackBerry system has.

 

[mattmcg]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Grump, I think you would be much better served posting this in another forum. This thread is about Shooter and not general Android platform questions.

Perhaps this would fit better in the "Sniper's Hide Equipment" forum or better yet, perhaps http://androidforums.com/?

And the rumors of Palms impending doom are NOT grossly exaggerated!

Now back to our regularly scheduled program..... Hey Sean, how are those HUD updates coming?

 

[Grump]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

My post explains why I have not bought "Shooter" for Android yet, and it relates to whether I will.

But yeah, thread hijack endeth now. If anyone has any answers, just PM me.

 

[SRT_Supply]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Hey Sean, any idea what's wrong with my wind angles?

Thanks!

 

[seankndy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SRT Supply</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Sean, any idea what's wrong with my wind angles?

Thanks! </div></div>
What do you have set for each of the units in the Preferences screen?

 

[seankndy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

There is a new update with a couple smaller improvements available.

SRT Supply,

Try the update -- I believe I've fixed your issue.

 

[beanland]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Thanks for the quick fix.

 

[bohem]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Sean-

Some of the larger calibers shooting the monolithic turned solids fit the G2 and G8 profiles much better than the G7, can you add the functionality to select other Gx profiles beyond the G1/G7 choices please?

 

[mattmcg]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Sean,

Another feature request. Can we backup our profiles to SD along with the web option?

Also, any updates coming forth anytime soon? I'm anxiously awaiting the updated HUD mode!!!!

 

[KQguy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

I am using a 162gr. Amax (litz) from the bullet library.When I get to the "atmosphere std.",I have the option of running ICAO,or ASM,which one should I use?

 

[BryanLitz]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

All of my BC's are corrected to the ICAO standard.

 

[clmayfield]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

This is a great app. Runs great!

 

[seankndy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

I know some of you may be wondering when the next update will be out. It's coming soon and will include the very-requested option for a dark 'night' theme.

I've been very busy the last couple months so haven't had as much time as I'd like to work on new additions, but one *is* coming.

Feel free to post here or email me any other enhancements you've dreamed up.

 

[mattmcg]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

The bug fix with negative density altitude using the BT plugin is desperately needed!

 

[Rafael]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Any way to incorporate printing to a wireless printer?
Maybe include options for table layout?

Just a thought.

Would still like to see the tables title bar locked to the top row when you scroll.
Yes, I have found myself using tables more than I though when at the range.

 

[SRT_Supply]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seankndy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a new update with a couple smaller improvements available.

SRT Supply,

Try the update -- I believe I've fixed your issue.</div></div>

That it did! I don't even remember seeing an update becoming available, but it's suddenly started working properly, and I appreciate it!

 

[HellsCanyonArmory]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

So I got a new Droid Incredible for Christmas (BADASS phone! But battery life can be a total downer)... And have been playing with the phone a bit and the program.

Few questions, when it asks for humidity, is this RH or actually humidity?

When Pressure Input Type is selected to "Station", there is ZERO difference in trajectory going from 0% Humidity to 80% Humidity at 1000 yds. Why is this?

Also, is it better to use the "Litz" calculated BC's or the regular BC's? I assume that the Litz are G7 values and are a bit more accurate? Thanks!!

Mike

 

[cdennyb]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

HEY Sean;

Are you ever going to be able to lock the name bar at the top of the data screen? I've been using your program now for months and ev ery update I keep expecting it to be locked when I scroll down. I know you said you were kinda dragging your feet to do that cause its hard but if it was easy, all of us could do it. LoL

Just checking brother..

 

[mattmcg]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Anxiously awaiting the next update. Especially the negative DA import fix from the BT plugin. This cold winter is making this bug even more apparent.

 

[KQguy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Anybody that has a battery eating phone like a DroidX or a Samsung Fascinate (like mine),I would highly reccomend getting a spare battery for it.I bought a second battery,and a battery charger (one that charges the battery without being in the phone).I got the charger at radio shack,it will charge it from a 110 outlet,or a cigarette lighter from your vehicle.Battery life is no longer an issue,I alway's have a fully charged battery on hand now.

 

[BryanLitz]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Humidity is referring to relative humidity.

RH has a very small effect on trajectory. It's possible that the output is rounding the difference off if your outputting MILS or MOA. If you look at the bullet path in inches on the table view, you should notice a difference in inches (or fractions of inches). If not, I'll be interested to know your exact inputs so I can re-create your output and look into it. My version accounts for humidity properly.

The 'Litz' BC's are the G7 BC's published in my book:
http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/index_files/Book.htm
In the book I demonstrate those BC's being used to predict bullet trajectories with less than 2" error at 1000 yards. This is done using a solver that's identical to 'Shooter's solver. I think they're accurate

I wasn't happy with the battery life of my X for a while, then discovered all kinds of settings you can change to maintain battery life. Reducing the frequency of data updates seemed to help the most.

-Bryan

 

[Lindy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Every person who has enough interest in long-distance shooting to read posts on this site should own a copy of Bryan's book.

Books on ballistic and aerodynamic theory may be interesting, but Bryan's book has information you can <span style="font-style: italic">use</span>.

 

[HellsCanyonArmory]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bryan Litz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Humidity is referring to relative humidity.

RH has a very small effect on trajectory. It's possible that the output is rounding the difference off if your outputting MILS or MOA. If you look at the bullet path in inches on the table view, you should notice a difference in inches (or fractions of inches). If not, I'll be interested to know your exact inputs so I can re-create your output and look into it. My version accounts for humidity properly.

The 'Litz' BC's are the G7 BC's published in my book:
http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/index_files/Book.htm
In the book I demonstrate those BC's being used to predict bullet trajectories with less than 2" error at 1000 yards. This is done using a solver that's identical to 'Shooter's solver. I think they're accurate

I wasn't happy with the battery life of my X for a while, then discovered all kinds of settings you can change to maintain battery life. Reducing the frequency of data updates seemed to help the most.

-Bryan </div></div>

Thanks for the reply very helpful! With RH at 100% it says a trajectory of 236.8" and with RH at 0% it says a trajectory of 236.9"... This is with Station pressure at 24 in/hg and 11* F.

Also if you aren't using "auto atmosphere" turning on airplane mode if you are doing ballistic calculations greatly reduces battery drain as well. I'll be looking into your book for sure. I just got my damn tonsils out a few days ago and have been looking for ways to keep my mind busy...

Mike

 

[Eaglet]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Every person who has enough interest in long-distance shooting to read posts on this site should own a copy of Bryan's book.

Books on ballistic and aerodynamic theory may be interesting, but Bryan's book has information you can <span style="font-style: italic">use</span>.
</div></div>

Lindy, that's right on the money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[HellsCanyonArmory]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Brian,

Been reading through your site and I'm very impressed! Great info on there! Where would you recommend buying your book from? Midway is out of stock though I probably won't order it for a few more weeks as I've yet to get back to work and you know how the full time college student thing is...

Mike

 

[clmayfield]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Sean,

I used the program this weekend and it worked great! I was especially impressed with the wind doping.

I am used to looking at a drop chart with a wind reading at 10 mph and just taking a swag based on conditions... basically, making very rough estimates.

With the more precise numbers coming out of your program, I thought it might be helpful to output a drop chart with bracketed wind values. Let's say that you have wind speed that is varying from 3 - 8 mph. Allow me to check a box to add a wind value so that I can output a drop chart with 3 and 8 mph winds. That way, I know my best and worse cases and know the two points I have to aim between horizontally.

Just a thought...

Anyway... great program!