Range Report Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fireball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does Shooter run on a 10" Android tablet like the Toshiba Thrive? Or is it for phones only? </div></div>
It will run fine on a tablet.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Been playing with the program all day. Ive read through the on-line manual and tried reading through many of the posts in this thread. I gave up after about page 8.

Here is my question, forgive me if it has been covered already, is there a way to enter compensation for an incline scope base?
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

^ Standby... Thinking...


Yes, I see what you mean. If I zero the scope at say 300y with a 20MOA base then my scope is already offset down about 20MOA. So at 900y the program says I need about 19.5MOA elevation that puts the scope back to near center. So my total elevation is just extended by about 20MOA, Got it!

I wasn't thinking it fully through when I was playing with it. Somehow I had it in my mind that I needed to subtract the 20MOA of the incline base off the shooting solution. My bad.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Thanks Sean for new update for Android!
I see there is new graphical wind parameter input window.
Cann`t see that window, button "Wind Controls" is greyed out.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

I can only see the new graphical wind tool in the main screen, not in the HUD .....maybe this is how he planned it? The wierd thing is that it only opens sometimes, sometimes it just opens the keyboard for input.

Another strange thing about the latest version is that I cannot close the keyboard in the main input screen unless the program has retrieved weather data. It used to be that I could do anything I want in this screen, but now the keyboard is always open until it gets a GPS lock and has retrived weather data.

I am running this on a Casio Commando with Android 2.3.3, Rooted of course.
smile.gif
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Wind field is doing wierd things....coming up with a number I never entered when the program starts....beyond the range that should be allowed. It somehow starts with "70" or "80" even though I have it set to "clock" input....this number should always be between 1 and 12. Also, if I se wind direction using the new tool, when I go into the HUD the wind field is empty.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Sean;
Thanks for the quick update that fixes the problems mentioned!

I hate to ask, but, is there a way to integrate the new wind tool into the HUD?

It's just a thought, but.....
It seems to me that your new tool would work for pretty well movers.

Maybe give the option of invoking a HUD change that would keep the distance increment/decrement buttons but replace the two wind entry fields with two single buttons that would bring up the new tool(s); one for wind and one for movers. It would be great if the buttons could show current data as well (direction/speed).

This is just a suggestion.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

I have just recently downloaded the Shooter app and I love it. Im just getting into long range shooting and Im still getting my gear together. My question is if this thing is as good as it seems and what I have read about, do I need a top of the line Kestrel? The Shooter app is already calculating density altitude, spin drift, correolis effect, and wind which I can manually change. I could use a lower model to double check the wind. Do I need more?
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sean;
I hate to ask, but, is there a way to integrate the new wind tool into the HUD?
</div></div>

+1, it's a great little tool for quick wind entry, and being able to get to it from the HUD would be awesome (as that's where you usually are when you're actually shooting)... perhaps by clicking the "Wind" row could pull it up. Also, a similar little graphical tool for quickly getting in the ballpark on range would be great (could pull it up by clicking on the "Elev" row). It only needs to be adjustable on a single axis, with "yardlines" so you can quickly swipe the range close-ish to the target range -- you could have "fine tune" buttons on that page too, though really I think just the rough range would be plenty -- you can then tweak it up or down to the exact range on the HUD page.

Also, Sean, I noticed that you implemented the "calculator" style number entry for the HUD, which is awesome, thanks for that.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

While I'm here, reminds me that I was stewing on a couple of feature requests a while back:

- A global option to override the phone's screen-timeout while the HUD is up (able to set to a custom value, or "never turn screen off" would be great). I always forget to change my phone's setting so the screen turns off on me while shooting, then I change it and forget to change it back when I'm done and run my phone's battery down :p

- Multiple "saved" targets. I can imagine a pretty slick implementation: Add two buttons to the HUD options menu: "Add target", and "remove current target" (greyed out when only one target exists). When you hit the "add target" button, a new HUD screen is created cloning all the values that were in the the existing HUD screen. On the newly created HUD target screen, you can adjust all the values to reflect the new target. Here's what I think really makes it work: you can then "swipe" between the HUD pages just like the Android desktop.

So before a multiple target situation -- you set up range/etc for your first target. Hit the menu button and hit the "add target" button, adjust the values for the second target, and so on until you have all the targets for the stage or whatever entered. When it's time to shoot, you swipe over to the first target.

After engaging the first target, it would be super easy to just reach down and give the phone a quick "swipe" to switch the HUD to the next target and resume shooting. Would beat the hell out scribbling the dope for all the targets down
smile.gif
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Sean,
I keep accidently opening the wind clock while using the app (I'm a long time User).

Anyway to make it only open with maybe a smaller button or maybe a way to disable it??

Love the app, but it is too cheap, it would be cheap at double the price!

Thanks!
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

I agree. The wind direction window is too easy to trigger and gets in the way more than it helps.

Can we get a physical button somewhere else to actuate that or simply configure it to be on or off in the config area?
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hellbender</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sean,
I keep accidently opening the wind clock while using the app (I'm a long time User).

Anyway to make it only open with maybe a smaller button or maybe a way to disable it??

Love the app, but it is too cheap, it would be cheap at double the price!

Thanks!
</div></div>

please
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Love the addition of the wind clock. That was great. Was just going to add a request to add the Hornady 178 HPBT to the bullet library.

The app gets better and better, you are doing great.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hellbender</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sean,
I keep accidently opening the wind clock while using the app (I'm a long time User).

Anyway to make it only open with maybe a smaller button or maybe a way to disable it??

Love the app, but it is too cheap, it would be cheap at double the price!

Thanks!
</div></div>

I frequently open this on accident as well when attempting to scroll.

After several months use, I've found this to be my favorite ballistics program yet (compared to Sierra, Exbal, FFS, and JBM).

Fantastic program.

I'm running it on the CM7 mod Android ROM, works great.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

I've had the shooter app for about 4 months too. Great little app. I 2nd the thought that it is a little annoying to have the wind graphic pop up when I don't intend for it too..
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

I think people don't understand how to do any of the calculations long hand therefore cannot fully appreciate it to its fullest extent I read the manual for Atrag. The mv tool does the same thing as Atrag truing feature. I trust it. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seankndy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Market Garden</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, I just came across this thread. Since getting rid of my iPhone and moving to the Android platform the only thing I've missed is a decent ballistics program. Shooter is a great start, and it's worlds better than anything else I've found on the Android platform. Keep up the great work, and I really look forward to updates and improvements in the future! </div></div>
Thanks, man. What did you use on your iPhone? What made you switch?

I've heard this a few times from users... that the current program is "a great start", but I am interested to know what you find is lacking.
</div></div>
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seankndy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The latest update should solve the problem of the wind-dial opening when not intended. </div></div>

Much better!!
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fisky</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seankndy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The latest update should solve the problem of the wind-dial opening when not intended. </div></div>

Much better!!</div></div>

Thank you!
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

I would like to use Density Altitude in “Shooter”, but I am confused with the instructions for the Kestrel. What do I need to change or adjust when going from one area to another. The manual says adjust as necessary. When is necessary, necessary? If I have my reference set to 0 Ft. in the Barometer screen am I good to go at different locations, (PA at 400 ft or Idaho at 6,000 ft. without resetting the Kestrel relative to atmospheric settings?
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Just bought this app today and after playing with stralok and other free apps must say this thing is awesome. Numbers match JBM website perfectly and it has more options than i currently know how to use well. Thanks Sean for an awesome app and from what i have read here really great support.
 
Shooter Truing

Hi guys,

I am new to this forum. I have looked to find the answer to this question but cannot find one or the answer is not clear to me.

Is there a way to "true" your data in shooter? If so, how?

I know ATrag and other have a way to do this by allowing the user to input the actual bullet impact a various distances. I saw that there is a MV Variation option in shooter, but this requires a powder temp variation to be entered which is not required in the other programs (as far as I know). I know Firing Field Solutions has three different methods to help a user get the data accurate. 1. Adjusting the click values to actual (i.e. some scopes values are not exactly 1/2 MOA clicks based on mechanical variations), 2. Adjusting MV based on inputting data as mentioned above (usually at closer distances) and 3. Adjusting the BC based on inputting data when the bullet is transonic.

I appreciate any feedback.

Thanks in advance,
Steve
 
Re: Shooter Truing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steveat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Is there a way to "true" your data in shooter? If so, how?

Thanks in advance,
Steve </div></div>

Only way I can think of, when you get to the page that says target on the very top of it, make sure everything has been filled out for the entire page that is applicable and when done depress the "Table/Graph" button, this will give you a drop chart. Click menu and then click on muzzle velocity tool and by
increasing or decreasing the muzzle velocity you make the drop table to match what the drop should be in the field at what ever distances.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

If you don't want to use the Powder Temp variation feature; don't use it. In your load setup just make the variation 0.0 and pick a powder temp....hopefully one that is close to the temp of the powder when you are verifying dope.

Then use the MV-tool as Eaglet suggested.
Of course, make sure all other variables are accurate before using the MV-tool.

There are many nice features in this app. If you don't want to use them you don't have to. Still, the more things you account for....... the more accurate the output.
 
Re: Shooter Truing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steveat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi guys,

I am new to this forum. I have looked to find the answer to this question but cannot find one or the answer is not clear to me.

Is there a way to "true" your data in shooter? If so, how?

I know ATrag and other have a way to do this by allowing the user to input the actual bullet impact a various distances. I saw that there is a MV Variation option in shooter, but this requires a powder temp variation to be entered which is not required in the other programs (as far as I know). I know Firing Field Solutions has three different methods to help a user get the data accurate. 1. Adjusting the click values to actual (i.e. some scopes values are not exactly 1/2 MOA clicks based on mechanical variations), 2. Adjusting MV based on inputting data as mentioned above (usually at closer distances) and 3. Adjusting the BC based on inputting data when the bullet is transonic.

I appreciate any feedback.

Thanks in advance,
Steve </div></div>

There are several ways to get the software adjusted to the real world. First is the correction number for the scope clicks if you have found them to be off (found under your rifle profile), then there is BC that you can change to match what you see in the field for hits, not to mention you can set MV limits for BC change and run more than one BC for long range, there is the ability to change the MV to adjust to real world. There are so many ways to get this program to match the true ballistics i get confused as to what route i want to take to get there. lol
 
Re: Shooter Truing

I've been using Shooter for quite a while now and absolutely love it. I recently picked up a Kestrel 4500 with bluetooth and couldn't be more more happy with the combo.

I do have an idea though. My kestrel 4500 has a built in compass and I think it would be awesome if shooter could take the compass reading for wind direction and compare it to your azimuth to calculate wind direction relative to shooting direction.

Examples, if I'm shooting at 15 degrees and my wind reading is taken at 45 degrees, then it would automatically calculate that the wind angle is 30 degrees.
Or if I'm shooting at 330 degrees and the wind reading is taken at 280 degrees, it would calculate a 310 degree wind angle.

I know its not hard to calculate the wind direction on your own, but for people who use the tripod and wind vane mount for kestrel, I think it would be easier so you don't have to get up and look at the meter every time you want to update your wind values. You can just simply hit the Kestrel Atmosphere button and re-load, and your ready to go again.

Obviously this wouldn't work well for people who don't use the Coriolis effect feature, so it would have to option to use one or the other.

Does that sound like a good idea to anyone else?
 
Re: Shooter Truing

I think it's a great idea, and wish Sean would implement it. I'd love to have that capability.

With today's equipment there just isn't any reason for not applying all the predictable corrections like Coriolis, as it costs nothing extra in money, computing power or shooter's efforts.
 
Re: Shooter Truing

Does anyone know how the ATRAG "truing" feature works? The implication from the videos is that it adjusts the value for Muzzle Velocity. If so, that would be fairly easy to do in Shooter. You could keep changing the value until you get the observed drop. But there must be a neater way to do this.

Certainly, the option of having some sort of "truing" feature in Shooter would be ideal.
 
Re: Shooter Truing

If you paid attention to this discussion you would know that Shooter already has a tool for this. It's talked about in this thread.

Open a graph of your trajectory and hit the menu button.
click the "MV" tool and you can adjust muzzle velocity until trajectory table matches. Then you can save that velocity to the load you are working on.

It's been around since very near the introduction of Shooter.
 
Re: Shooter Truing

Thanks for your walk-through Rafael. I had read the thread to which you refer, but my question was really about how the ATRAG "trues". Does ATRAG change only the recorded muzzle velocity until the predicted drop at x yards equals the observed drop? Or does it make alterations to the BC value used? Or does it not make any difference how the "truing" is done?

Please, excuse my lack of knowledge on this subject. I have purchased and really like Shooter and if I can make it's predictions even more accurate, so much the better.
 
Re: Shooter Truing

I have no knowledge of ATRAG; can't help there.

Still, I think it would be strange if it altered anything but MV.

Many programs, Shooter included, allow entry of stepped BC's; different BC values based on speed. As the bullet slows the BC changes some. I have not found the need to use stepped BC's with Shooter, so far.

If all other data is correct, MV adjustment should be the only tweak....in most cases.....in my opinion.
If you still can't make the data match real-world data, I would suggest you have provided bad data and need to take another look at: adjustment values, conditions, BC selection,powder temp,..... and so on.

Then again, I am no ballistician. Mr. Litz would be the expert on that, among others.
 
Re: Shooter Truing

Most software "trues" the same way.

There is a process to truing and if you follow it, the software is much more effective. I will give you an example of this:

I assembled a rifle last week for a competition in FLA, the K&M Match. On tuesday just before the match I had a batch of rounds ship to me from Andrew McCourt, these were the same load he sent to FLA ahead of time. The rifle was brand new and unfired.

I took a known and trued scope along with the rifle to my indoor range as here in Denver the weather was less than desirable to go out and shoot the loads for verification. The results were outstanding using JBM which was my only data from 100 to 1000 yards. <span style="font-style: italic">( I used Shooter as a back up with my iPod but never broke it out)</span>

So,

1. At 100 yards true your scope, I use a 4ft level and measure off the adjustments from top to bottom. You can use any thing you like, the level is easy and provides me with a opportunity to check not only tracking but level.

2. Run as many rounds over the chronograph as possible. I used 20 rounds at 100 yards at the indoor range. This gave me a zero and data to use. I confirmed zero at the range the day before the match, I used 5 rounds to do this.

3. You can calculate drop at 300, to 800, and modify the data based off that, but it is not always necessary if you true your scope. Some things many change so the more data points you have the better. However at 100 yards you can dial up on a larger target board and measure off the adjustment to match the distance. So if you need 8.3 mils to reach 100 according to the software, dial up 8.3 mils, aim at the same zero point and shoot. Then measure to determine the round impacted in the correct place. Shooting at distance is better, but this helps a lot.

I personally like using stepped BCs and have yet to see a major difference between G1 & G7 software wise when using them. it is the same amount of work regardless of which one you use, but if the opportunity is there to use the (Litz) versions I will, however with a 308 I have found the G1 , stepped to be fantastic. In a lot of cases it is easier to find G1 data so I use that rather than chasing down G7 information.

Another key is real time accurate environmental data. When I put my data into JBM I went and grabbed current condition at the location. In the field with an iPhone / iPod / Android / PDA do not grabbed the conditions from the unit but from a Kestrel in your hand. That is the most accurate data and not potentially from miles away.

This data was not tweaked at all, just averaged and it allowed me to engage targets of 1 MOA or better out to distance during field / match conditions. It was spot on.

The range card I used was exactly this laminated and was my only pre-determined information for an unfired rifle. The results were a Top 12 placing using ammo that was actually loaded to the spec of a different rifle. <span style="font-style: italic">(21" AW vs 24" GAP)</span>

Screen-Shot-2012-02-29-at-3.13.05-PM.png


I just laminated it and went to work. Load was 260REM from Andrew McCourt using a 139gr Scenar loaded to magazine length.
 
Re: Shooter Truing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe I used 6" </div></div>

That is what she said!

Lowlight, I enjoyed shooting and shooting the bull with you this weekend.
 
Re: Shooter Truing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I personally like using stepped BCs and have yet to see a major difference between G1 & G7 software wise when using them. it is the same amount of work regardless of which one you use, but if the opportunity is there to use the (Litz) versions I will, however with a 308 I have found the G1 , stepped to be fantastic. In a lot of cases it is easier to find G1 data so I use that rather than chasing down G7 information. </div></div>

In regards to stepped BC and G1 vs. G7, is there additional resources to obtain this info vs internet advertised BC from bullet Mfg? Reason I ask is that from what I load; Sierra is the only one I know to provide multiple G1 BCs or have on hand. I've relied on Litz's book as a step BC reference but both functions are listed in step, mostly just taking the G7 average to min velocity if max range was pre-determined and more limited.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Paradude</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the Kestrel 4500 blue tooth compatible with the shooter application? Can the information automatically update to the phone?</div></div>
On an Android phone? You can bet your ass it does!
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ranmaniac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Strelok is much more functional and user friendly </div></div>

Just downloaded this and it looks promising. Missing a lot of functionality from Shooter but has the potential to be good if a number of features and some ease-of-use design changes are applied.

Ranmanian, why don't you post a new thread to discuss it since this is the Shooter thread? I'm sure some others including myself would be interested in chatting about it. Looks like the author is also reachable so I'm sure we could get him involved as well.