Range Report Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Sean,

Not sure if this is feasible or not, (or if its available elsewhere as a seperate apps?), but is there any chance of a wind meter function? In fact if it could give a temperature reading, that would also be great?

Regards,

Peter
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pete E</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sean,

Not sure if this is feasible or not, (or if its available elsewhere as a seperate apps?), but is there any chance of a wind meter function? In fact if it could give a temperature reading, that would also be great?

Regards,

Peter </div></div>

That would be a hardware issue. Although Android phones can do alot, I haven't seen any phones that have that capability.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Latest update includes some bug fixes and support for sending trajectory table to an email (full version only)
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

For those who did not notice.....
This most recent update to the full version includes the ability to set the step size for range adjustments via the +/- buttons in the HUD. This is a new setting in preferences.
I set mine for 10 yards........makes for quicker adjustments.
This makes it a bit more personalized towards accuracy or speed of adjustments.
You can still type in precise ranges via the keyboard.

Thanks, Sean!
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sources of Ballistic Program Inaccuracies
</div></div>

Thanks for spending the time to put together those articles, Lindy.
I use them as reference material quite often.
I have learned a geat deal from you but am still a work in progress.
laugh.gif
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

If you mean a PDA with a Palm OS, it wouldn't be a good use of his time.

PDAs are getting thin on the ground, because smart phones are killing them off.

The Windows Mobile PDA market is mostly down to HP, except for the ruggedized field models like the TDS Recon, Nomad, and similar units, and I don't think Palm is even making one any more.

If I were in the market for a device to run a ballistics program which I didn't want to be a phone, and I didn't want to pay the freight for a mil-spec model, I'd go buy an Ipod Touch.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

BTW.....

This program will also run on Archos handhelds that run Android.
They are available for about $199.00.
I don't think they have the inclinometer or compass hardware built-in, though. Seans angle and azumith tools will not work without those features.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

hmmmm....im just behind on the times
smile.gif


I will just get another android and find a app to make the batteries last longer..maybe by shutting other things down temporally or something.

regardless, i think you have something good going on here. Thanks a ton.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think Windows 7 may have a bright future in the phone OS department as well.</div></div>meh.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Lindy, thanks for that link. Very informative. I believe my problem is multifactorial. 1st, I don't trust my chrono. It gives read-outs in multiples of 6fps--nothing in between. I sent it back, and got a new one back; same problem. 2nd, I'm shooting Sierra 175 SMKs. My chrono has them leaving the barrel at 2760 fps, but if there is an error, and they are going a bit faster, I may be needing to use the higher BC of 0.505 instead of 0.496. I think the wind error was mostly me and my inexperience at determining wind readings. My scope is a Leupold Mark 4 but it has M3 knobs, not M1. Same issue? Anyway, I'm sure I'll learn to use it accurately, and it IS a very good program. I just need to learn how to use it to its full potential. BTW, I also tried the calculate distance feature. I was off by 10yds with my Mil Dot reading (TMR reticle). It is difficult to accurately mill small objects at long distances with only a 10-power scope. Thanks again, Sean.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

2760 is a pretty high velocity for 175s. I'd be suspicious of a velocity that high.

The reading from your Kestrel is station pressure only if the reference altitude in the BP window is set to zero. See:

Barometric Pressure and Ballistic Software

In my experience, the M3 knobs are accurately dialing in MOA. And, yeah, it's difficult to measure objects at long distance at any power, but 10X is more difficult.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seankndy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think Windows 7 may have a bright future in the phone OS department as well.</div></div>meh. </div></div>
I didn't mean it....I swear allegiance to Android. I am assimilated.
laugh.gif
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

As to the mv of 2760, I've tested it at long range with my Sierra IS software and it tracks exactly. I realize that is a hot load--44.4gr Varget under 175SMK in Lapua brass with CCI BR2 primer, seated at 2.820 (about -10 thou. off the lands). Barrel is a 25" Bartlein 5R.

Maybe the pressure was the source of my error. I was entering the "BARO" readout from my Kestrel in the pressure window in the program. I had the program set to "station pressure" but on my kestrel I set my altitude and the barometric pressure, so this may be the source of my error. Will have to try it again, setting my altitude to 0. I re-calibrated my kestrel to an altitude of zero, and then re-entered the "BARO" readout into the solution, and "voila", everything agrees now. And yes, my elevation is correct for a MV of 2760fps--confirmed by hits on steel. Once again, thank you Lindy.

And thanks again, Sean. Great program.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Yeah, that will certainly make a difference.
I use my Kestrel with the alt at zero and enter the direct pressure reading like you are now doing.
With direct pressure you can certainly skip alt. One less variable to mess with.

Thanks for the update, John!
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Perhaps this is a bit of blasphemy, ie spelling,

however I took the time last night to run my numbers from shooters lite against

a well know online bal genererator that I have used before.

I was well within .1 mil in both ele and wind for most of my loads,


the 9,3x62 load with 250 grain AB, has some issues, mostly due to unknown "true" BC value,

still I don´t shoot beyond 400 meters with that rifle.

So Sean,

thank you again for providing us with this program.

Best regards Chris aka the happy swede.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Sean you are the man.

This program is absolutely awesome for whacking Pds at 400+ yards with my 22-250.

I was amazed with the accuracy.

Thanks
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

mmedearis509,

Thank you and you're welcome
wink.gif


The user's of the program here at SH have given lots of great feedback to help shape the program, so I can't take all the credit.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Yes we have.....but then we could not begin to write such a program. Suggestions are pretty easy.....shooting give us all a list of desireable features.

The value, for me, is actually seeing the features executed.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

When updates are released, would it be possible to get a little popup the first time the program is opened that details the new features in the release? Some apps do that and it's useful so you know if there were just bug fixes or if there are new features to check out. Even listing the new features and fixes in the app description (New features in version x.x:...) in the market works too.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Just came across this thread and was happy to see a viable ballistics solution for Android.

My question is, does the program support Density Altitude for environmental inputs?

Also, any chance that a Kestrel with Bluetooth could sync and populate its data remotely into the program?
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<rant on>

There is no reason to support density altitude for environmental inputs.

Density altitude is computed from temperature, pressure, and relative humidity. Any source which computes DA, like a Kestrel 4000 or 4500, is reporting those quantities.

Bluetooth sync to a Kestrel is likewise an unnecessary complication. Where will the Kestrel be while it's reporting those quantities?

In your pocket? Wrong temperature.
In the sun? Wrong temperature.

And the other quantities don't change very fast.

While I am an electrical engineer and computer geek, albeit a happily retired one, and I support the concept of density altitude to the point of having written two web pages about it, shooters are advised to think a bit about how they are going to use a ballistic program before they request addition of features to a program.

Every feature you add to a program increases the odds of introducing bugs. In fact, I know of one programmer who added the input of DA to the environmental screen of his ballistic program, and screwed up the program. It took several subsequent releases to get rid of all the bugs.

I have a PDA with a very good ballistic program. Two such programs, actually.

In the field, I mostly use a density altitude dope card, a watch with a pressure sensor, and a cheap zipper-pull thermometer.

In a counter-sniper duel against an opponent with a PDA and a Kestrel, I will kill him while he is turning on his PDA.

It's nice to have the latest and the greatest gadgets. It's nicer to be able to stay alive.

<rant off>

We now return you to your normally scheduled geek frenzy.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Im still waiting on the new Droid Evo4g to be released (6/17/10) and I will be buying shooter as soon as the phone connects. I cant wait. I will be honest, I am buying the phone just so I can get shooter.. smile

Well, not just for shooter but you get the idea.
 
Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

It seems that when you are entering the atmospheric data the next button just goes down the left column. Can it be changed so that it tabs from left to right going down?? That way you can enter all the fields data without having to tap each one.

Awesome app and thanks for making it.

Gary
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BarrettHunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">why does the solution show +mills when my zero is less than the shooting distance. Shouldnt it show negative not positive? </div></div>
In shooter, + is adjust up and - is adjust down when referring to solutions. Wind adjust to the right is + and wind adjust to the left is -.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GAS34</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seems that when you are entering the atmospheric data the next button just goes down the left column. Can it be changed so that it tabs from left to right going down?? That way you can enter all the fields data without having to tap each one.

Awesome app and thanks for making it.

Gary </div></div>
I'll look into fixing that little annoyance.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no reason to support density altitude for environmental inputs.</div></div>

Thanks for taking this one, Lindy.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><rant on>

There is no reason to support density altitude for environmental inputs.

Density altitude is computed from temperature, pressure, and relative humidity. Any source which computes DA, like a Kestrel 4000 or 4500, is reporting those quantities.

Bluetooth sync to a Kestrel is likewise an unnecessary complication. Where will the Kestrel be while it's reporting those quantities?

In your pocket? Wrong temperature.
In the sun? Wrong temperature.

And the other quantities don't change very fast.

While I am an electrical engineer and computer geek, albeit a happily retired one, and I support the concept of density altitude to the point of having written two web pages about it, shooters are advised to think a bit about how they are going to use a ballistic program before they request addition of features to a program.

Every feature you add to a program increases the odds of introducing bugs. In fact, I know of one programmer who added the input of DA to the environmental screen of his ballistic program, and screwed up the program. It took several subsequent releases to get rid of all the bugs.

I have a PDA with a very good ballistic program. Two such programs, actually.

In the field, I mostly use a density altitude dope card, a watch with a pressure sensor, and a cheap zipper-pull thermometer.

In a counter-sniper duel against an opponent with a PDA and a Kestrel, I will kill him while he is turning on his PDA.

It's nice to have the latest and the greatest gadgets. It's nicer to be able to stay alive.

<rant off>

We now return you to your normally scheduled geek frenzy.
</div></div>

Lindy,

Without question I have respected your knowledge and authority around this particular topic and to this point, also carry around dope cards calibrated to density altitude constructed with your online direction.

That said, I would have to disagree with you on this particular point. Yes, having environmental inputs as stands-alone inputs gets the job done, but having the option of entering a single variable to account for altitude, temperature, pressure, and humidity at once only speeds up the process of data input into the PDA, especially when you have that data readable on one screen from a Kestrel. It would only simplify the input and calculation process assuming the DA implementation in the program is done right. There are also times when your dope card doesn't have the granularity that a PDA would have and given a lax time requirement, can dispense with the card and refine the ballistic calculation through the use of the PDA.

Yes, there is always a risk that something is implemented incorrectly and it breaks the program but bugs are only in need of being fixed. We shouldn't limit our capability for fear of bugs otherwise we'd still be in the stone-ages.

Lastly, the bluetooth integration also saves me a step. While I wouldn't suggest streaming bluetooth data from a pocketed Kestrel for the reasons you pointed out, it would be nice to have a "data sync" capability that only requires the push of a single button once the Kestrel is deployed and reading accurately. This would be a nice feature to also speed up the process.

With the discussion revolving around geek-tech, the above would seem more than relevant towards the discussion of feature development on a smartphone with Android software!
grin.gif
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hazardus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lindy,

Without question I have respected your knowledge and authority around this particular topic and to this point, also carry around dope cards calibrated to density altitude constructed with your online direction.

That said, I would have to disagree with you on this particular point. Yes, having environmental inputs as stands-alone inputs gets the job done, but having the option of entering a single variable to account for altitude, temperature, pressure, and humidity at once only speeds up the process of data input into the PDA, especially when you have that data readable on one screen from a Kestrel. It would only simplify the input and calculation process assuming the DA implementation in the program is done right. There are also times when your dope card doesn't have the granularity that a PDA would have and given a lax time requirement, can dispense with the card and refine the ballistic calculation through the use of the PDA.

Yes, there is always a risk that something is implemented incorrectly and it breaks the program but bugs are only in need of being fixed. We shouldn't limit our capability for fear of bugs otherwise we'd still be in the stone-ages.

Lastly, the bluetooth integration also saves me a step. While I wouldn't suggest streaming bluetooth data from a pocketed Kestrel for the reasons you pointed out, it would be nice to have a "data sync" capability that only requires the push of a single button once the Kestrel is deployed and reading accurately. This would be a nice feature to also speed up the process.

With the discussion revolving around geek-tech, the above would seem more than relevant towards the discussion of feature development on a smartphone with Android software!
grin.gif
</div></div>

You'd actually need to enter DA *and* temp so that speed of sound can be calculated correctly. Now you're just avoiding entering 2 fields: pressure and humidity...you'd likely only need to enter this once and probably rarely or never change it while shooting that day.

Also, if Kestrel bluetooth support is added to the program, why do you care how many inputs there are? They'll be auto-entered for you.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

There's another reason to enter the temperature: muzzle velocity is a function of temperature, and only of temperature. If you're not changing your muzzle velocity as a function of temperature, you're introducing a major source of error at long distance.

So, density altitude alone won't do it.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seankndy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Also, if Kestrel bluetooth support is added to the program, why do you care how many inputs there are? They'll be auto-entered for you. </div></div>

I was actually looking at my post as two specific feature additions, one the DA addition, the other the Bluetooth integration. If Bluetooth were implemented, it would obviate the need to reduce the number of input variables. I think this is on the right track.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's another reason to enter the temperature: muzzle velocity is a function of temperature, and only of temperature. If you're not changing your muzzle velocity as a function of temperature, you're introducing a major source of error at long distance.</div></div>

And I agree that the addition of muzzle velocity as a function of ambient temperature would be another nice feature. Yes, temperature would be a required variable here as well.

Given all of the above, I would defer any interest in Density Altitude although I still believe it is a useful input option.

And on a side note, I downloaded this program when it first came out and thought it needed some work. Now that its been a few months, I can see that it has really come along very nicely. Nice work Sean! I can only imagine with your continuing interest in developing this along with the contributions from some of the boards more expert ballisticians, this will turn into a fine offering.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Latest version of Shooter includes a bug fix in the 'email trajectory table' feature as well as a new Muzzle Velocity Tool located in the Menu of the Trajectory Table. This allows you to tweak your muzzle velocity and see the trajectory results on the fly.

There is also now an option in the Preferences to hide the linear path/drift columns from the trajectory table output.

GAS34, the "Next" button should jump to the correct inputs now too.
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

What is the link to this apps data? I have to wait for Sprint to release the EVO but I would like to read up on before upgrading phones. Thanks Brandon
 
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am getting an android phone in the next month or so, soon as it turns on this is the FIRST app I am downloading, thanks sean for developing this. </div></div>
Thanks ubet!