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Is .224 Valkyrie going to die out?
- Thread starter ToddM
- Start date
But now that the 62gr ELD VT is out there's going to be a bit more attention to all the 22 cals.
I'm excited to play with these bullets, I'm invested in the Valk but not emotionally. Really I'm happy to see any 22 succeed. however, I'm not sure why we need to fit everything into a small frame AR.
As far as balance goes, these cartridges are so stinking close to perfect with speed and bullet weight. If we standardized on a bolt gun and acknowledge the AR will limit its abilities. I think the complaint department would shut down pretty quick.
Am I the only one thinking this way?
I'm excited to play with these bullets, I'm invested in the Valk but not emotionally. Really I'm happy to see any 22 succeed. however, I'm not sure why we need to fit everything into a small frame AR.
As far as balance goes, these cartridges are so stinking close to perfect with speed and bullet weight. If we standardized on a bolt gun and acknowledge the AR will limit its abilities. I think the complaint department would shut down pretty quick.
Am I the only one thinking this way?
I don't got to war with a bolt gun as a primary. Increasing lethality in an AR15 decreases the space in my pants!
22 ARC is exciting from a ballistics standpoint. I am still anticipating the 6MAX as it will fit current AR bolt faces & magazines without a reduction in capacity.
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I’m aware, but at the speeds you can get the 80’s up to, it beats out the 88’s until you start getting past 1100+ yards.
Has hornady brought out any cartridges in the last decade and a half that didn’t become golden children?
The interesting thing was listening to the Hornady engineers talk about how difficult it was to find accurate loads with .224 Valkyrie. It would take a long time working with different charge weights and a specific projectile like the 88gr ELD-M, then once they got it dialed-in for production and went to 75gr, they had to start all over, very difficult to find a happy place.
When they went to 22 ARC development, each load was done within roughly 30 minutes, easy as pie. Case capacities aren’t that different between them. We also saw the big names in accurate gas gun rifles struggle to get the .224 Valkyrie to perform in the accuracy department. When it was being showcased here, I even remember Frank and the other guys using a bolt gun for the true long range work.
Not sure what was going on with projectile support in the neck or what, but it was just difficult to get to shoot in ARs. I thought that was odd because we never heard any such problems with the 224 AR.
I did see some amazing deals on ammo for 224 Valkyrie during the scamdemic, unlike all the other cartridges, so Federal was really trying to get it to stick.
When they went to 22 ARC development, each load was done within roughly 30 minutes, easy as pie. Case capacities aren’t that different between them. We also saw the big names in accurate gas gun rifles struggle to get the .224 Valkyrie to perform in the accuracy department. When it was being showcased here, I even remember Frank and the other guys using a bolt gun for the true long range work.
Not sure what was going on with projectile support in the neck or what, but it was just difficult to get to shoot in ARs. I thought that was odd because we never heard any such problems with the 224 AR.
I did see some amazing deals on ammo for 224 Valkyrie during the scamdemic, unlike all the other cartridges, so Federal was really trying to get it to stick.
Bro, I would walk in places and .224 Valk was the only thing on the shelves. It was marketed so shitally that people were like, WTF is that?
You want to know why it was still on the shelves? Because as soon as a number of people started to build for it, wanting an inexpensive critter round that they didn’t have to load for, prices went up like crazy.
I was one of those people. I load for all kinds of stuff and just wanted something I could hit well with out to 700-800. The Valkyrie fit that bill and my Craddock barreled build does that in spades with just factory 75s ($12/box) and if I want expensive, hornady 88s ($20/box). Here’s where prices jumped in 2020 and they haven’t come down since.
If I wanted to load for it, I would have chosen something else. That’s part of the marketing spiel they sold us on. Since then it’s been a couple other offerings and each one is the next best thing since sliced bread. We are the most gullible marketing target since cabbage patch kids and beanie babies were around.
I was one of those people. I load for all kinds of stuff and just wanted something I could hit well with out to 700-800. The Valkyrie fit that bill and my Craddock barreled build does that in spades with just factory 75s ($12/box) and if I want expensive, hornady 88s ($20/box). Here’s where prices jumped in 2020 and they haven’t come down since.
If I wanted to load for it, I would have chosen something else. That’s part of the marketing spiel they sold us on. Since then it’s been a couple other offerings and each one is the next best thing since sliced bread. We are the most gullible marketing target since cabbage patch kids and beanie babies were around.
I was seeing it for $13/box during Wuhanfu. It was very tempting, but I stayed strong and didn’t bite.
How much are you asking for the cabbage patch kids…lol
Just skip the 22arc and go with a 22creedmoor. My 224 valk with push 85.5 bergers at 2750 and the 22arc will do it around 2875 but my 22creed does it at 3315.
I have a fresh craddrock 224valk with 800ish rounds loaded I still need to burn though and I might change it to a 22arc if its still relevant but with how easy the 22creed is to load for and the speed you can get I dont see a reason really.
As everyone knows the 224 valk sucks to load for. 224valk best load I could get was a consistent .6ish range group in an ar15
22creed I get a consistent .25 group in an ar10 and it only took a single afternoon with 5 powder loads and 5 seating depths to find it.
Sure you have to go to an ar10 but thats not even a downside. They are all bench guns so an extra pound of weight is not a negative.
and as for it being a barrel burner. Well thats why i'm using 400MODBB barrels.
I have a fresh craddrock 224valk with 800ish rounds loaded I still need to burn though and I might change it to a 22arc if its still relevant but with how easy the 22creed is to load for and the speed you can get I dont see a reason really.
As everyone knows the 224 valk sucks to load for. 224valk best load I could get was a consistent .6ish range group in an ar15
22creed I get a consistent .25 group in an ar10 and it only took a single afternoon with 5 powder loads and 5 seating depths to find it.
Sure you have to go to an ar10 but thats not even a downside. They are all bench guns so an extra pound of weight is not a negative.
and as for it being a barrel burner. Well thats why i'm using 400MODBB barrels.
Unless Federal launches a real ad campaign and follows up with accurate and inexpensive loads, Hornady is going to bury the 224 Valkyrie with their marketing machine.
I suppose I should clarify.
Yes I mentioned 22creed goes in a ar10 frame. It's not like we dont all have a bunch lying around and the frames all cost the same anyways if you're buying new.
Also when I said bench. I really meant target shooting and stationary varmint hunting. and yeah i'm 100% sure i've never seen or heard of someone using a 224valk on a recce so an extra pound of weight for the frame isn't going to matter which was my point. In fact I want the extra pound.
My point stands. an extra 500fps velocity and an extremally easy cartridge to load for. You can beat around the bush all day like I did or just skip to the end and get a better performing cartridge. I've burnt though a few 224valk barrels to know that its ok but not great and adding only +100fps in a 22arc is not going to change hardly anything.
Yes I mentioned 22creed goes in a ar10 frame. It's not like we dont all have a bunch lying around and the frames all cost the same anyways if you're buying new.
Also when I said bench. I really meant target shooting and stationary varmint hunting. and yeah i'm 100% sure i've never seen or heard of someone using a 224valk on a recce so an extra pound of weight for the frame isn't going to matter which was my point. In fact I want the extra pound.
My point stands. an extra 500fps velocity and an extremally easy cartridge to load for. You can beat around the bush all day like I did or just skip to the end and get a better performing cartridge. I've burnt though a few 224valk barrels to know that its ok but not great and adding only +100fps in a 22arc is not going to change hardly anything.
100%
If you have and like your Valk, load up on brass now. At least a barrel worth.
Any reports on barrel life of the 22 ARC?
AR10 frames are significantly more expensive than ar15 frames, but that's not the issue.
They are substantially larger and heavier when built into firearms.
Using the logic that heavier is better, we should all just be shooting 300 Normas, 338 Lapuas, Cheytacs, or 50s.
Better for your uses. Not better for all uses. Some are looking for marginal gains over 223/556 while staying in a svelte package that is not burdensome to carry further than from the car to the bench.
I've got an AR10 in 308 that shoots tiny little groups, but I hate carrying the thing around- it is 11 lbs naked. I have an ar15 in 6.5 Grendel that shoots equivalent (or better) roups from a bench, has roughly equivalent flight ballistics, acceptable terminal ballistics, larger magazine capacity, and less recoil- all while being less than 11 lbs loaded and ready to hunt (scope, bipod, loaded mag, suppressor). I also have a 224Predator (more or less the 22ARC) that does the same thing.
Sure, the 22creedmoor is ballistically superior to anything that can be put into an ar15, but it can't be put into an ar15. It is better for what you want it to do. For those that get further than a few feet from the pickup, however, it might not be better for them.
Does anyone use a 224valk for a truck gun? It may be a thing but ive never heard of it. Not that I go intentionally making threads asking people if they have a truck gun 224 valk but just scanning I've never seen in brought up.
What we all know is that 224valk and now 22arc were made for longer range. Not a truck gun. It was made to do what a 556 cant and range. The problem is for shooting living things that means your effective kill shots even on small rodents like prairie dogs (which is about as easy to kill as anything short of a bird) is 900-1000 yards with a 224valk. After that the bullet is going to slow that you just poke a hole in them and they run off. Maybe they die later but who knows. I've shot thousands of rounds at them and no matter the bullet that fact will never change. You simply dont have the velocity to get the bullet to expand. So it passed though will minimal damage and unless you brain or spine it, its gone. Same as how 300blk subs suck nuts for killing anything compared to supers and why slow moving pistol rounds can't even hold a candle to the damage of a 556 round.
A 22arc will get you at most 50 yards more of effective range. It's definitely a step up from a 224valk and is sure cant be any more annoying to get a good load made up for it but youre just turning your wheels unless you plan on keeping your effective kill shots at around 1000 yards and effective paper punching at around 1600 yards. Then the more power to you. It's your money. I'm just giving you my .02s as someone who spent close to $10k on my 224valk rig and ammo since 2018 when it first became a thing. If you plan to actually take it farther then that you'll make the jump to a faster round and never want to look back.
To each their own I guess.
Edit: Youre right. I weighed my 224valk rifle and my 22creed rifle. Both have the same barrel length and contour made my craddrock. The ar10 framed 22creed was 3 pounds heavier. So if you plan on mounting a laser to it and running drills then youre right that will make a difference.
If you do want to add 35lbs to it and make it as much as my cheytac rig that weights 48lbs then while I do find that kinda overkill for the recoil it would be kinda intertaining and very present to shoot lol.
Also I just compared prices of the same brand and if $100 more counts as “significant” from an ar10 over an ar 15 then you’re in the wrong hobby :/ that’s an irrelevant amount to say the VERY least.
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Truck gun? Instead of driving to your shooting location, throw all of your stuff into a backpack, sling your rifle over your shoulder, and hike out there. I do not understand why it is so hard to imagine that some people prefer a lightweight precision rifle for the shooting that they do. There are many that will sacrifice performance for portability and it’s not all about CQB.
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If Lapua, Alpha, or RWS doesn‘t make brass for it, it’s dead in my opinion.
I didn't have much luck in my 224V adventure. Found it to be finicky and not easy to tune. Also burned through a lot of brass shooting at my desired velocities.
Got rid of it all and have been shooting 6ARC now for awhile. I think the cartridge is solid and easy to tune. Plus I have consolidated calibers so that I'm down to 6mm, 6.5mm, and .308. Lots of great cartridges that shoot those caliber bullets.
I think if you are a varmint hunter, the 22ARC is going to be a great performer and bury the 224V. Hornady just seems to be able to bring a "new"cartridge to market better than anyone else.
Got rid of it all and have been shooting 6ARC now for awhile. I think the cartridge is solid and easy to tune. Plus I have consolidated calibers so that I'm down to 6mm, 6.5mm, and .308. Lots of great cartridges that shoot those caliber bullets.
I think if you are a varmint hunter, the 22ARC is going to be a great performer and bury the 224V. Hornady just seems to be able to bring a "new"cartridge to market better than anyone else.
Ammoseek shows Federal factory 224 Valkyrie as low as $12.98/box of 20.
It’s interesting to me that Federal has done a lot to support this cartridge, but it just didn’t seem to catch on for whatever reasons. Even Hornady tried to help them out with factory ammo after extensive ballistician efforts with their various loads developed for it.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but things I’m looking for in a high performance intermediate cartridge that fits in the AR-15:
1. The performance has to justify deviating from 5.56 NATO. When I ran the numbers on the common bullet weights between Valkyrie and 5.56, I just didn’t see much of a difference. Its main advantage seemed to be mag-loaded longer/higher BC target bullets for LR.
2. Factory ammo availability and support from multiple manufacturers.
3. Brass life/value. Even for those who don’t reload, there is value in good brass. Federal has established a reputation for themselves with their brass, which is generally soft and doesn’t do well with multiple loadings for hand-loaders.
4. Double cartridge stack in external STANAG profile magazines. .224 Valkyrie does this in spades with 6.8 mags.
Whenever I see a new cartridge or widget come out, I wait and watch for about 5 years as the kinks get worked out. One red flag for .224 Valkyrie was that the main projectile advantage it had (90gr) seemed very difficult for top companies to get to shoot accurately from AR-15s.
It’s interesting to me that Federal has done a lot to support this cartridge, but it just didn’t seem to catch on for whatever reasons. Even Hornady tried to help them out with factory ammo after extensive ballistician efforts with their various loads developed for it.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but things I’m looking for in a high performance intermediate cartridge that fits in the AR-15:
1. The performance has to justify deviating from 5.56 NATO. When I ran the numbers on the common bullet weights between Valkyrie and 5.56, I just didn’t see much of a difference. Its main advantage seemed to be mag-loaded longer/higher BC target bullets for LR.
2. Factory ammo availability and support from multiple manufacturers.
3. Brass life/value. Even for those who don’t reload, there is value in good brass. Federal has established a reputation for themselves with their brass, which is generally soft and doesn’t do well with multiple loadings for hand-loaders.
4. Double cartridge stack in external STANAG profile magazines. .224 Valkyrie does this in spades with 6.8 mags.
Whenever I see a new cartridge or widget come out, I wait and watch for about 5 years as the kinks get worked out. One red flag for .224 Valkyrie was that the main projectile advantage it had (90gr) seemed very difficult for top companies to get to shoot accurately from AR-15s.
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Mag loaded higher BC projectiles than 223/5.56 is the purpose of 224V. The "best" projectile weight for 224V seems to be 80 grain high BC projectiles not the 90s that Federal seemed to push. 80s seem to offer the best package of velocity and BC. 80 ELDMs seem to be a top choice of the handloaders on the various 224V pages.
224V stumbled coming out the gate with "bad" reamers and Federal had issues with their 90 grain loads that are still unexplained.
The same reason why every cartridge that has the ogive pushed in all the way to the case mouth is erratic for precision gun-to-gun. Principal axis tilt, "in-bore yaw". The longer and more secant the ogive, and the more aggressive the feeding cycle, the worse the patterning will be.
I have reloading dies, powder, projectiles, etc., for every gun I own. As much as I spent building my Valkyrie, I will be shooting it, and so will my Son.
Bullet: .224” Hornady 75gr ELD Match #22791
Powder: 27.0 gr. Hodgdon CFE 223 (23.9 – 27.5) Tested OK. Very Accurate. No case damage. Slightly Dirty.
26.5 gr. Hodgdon H380 ball powder. 24.0 – 29.0 Tested OK. Not as accurate as CFE 223. No case damage. EXTREMELY DIRTY!
Target is 10 rds, 25 yards. I'm 77, so I shake a bit. A younger guy could do a lot better!
The guy's almost 80, let him live a little. Hope I'll still be shooting then.25y groups on snipershide.
1" @ 25y is 4 MOA.
1: It was 10 rounds leaning. The 25 yard range is the only range reasonably close, so I use what is available.
2. I was trying to help the previous poster. I reload every caliber I own except 22 and 32 rimfire.
3. Yes, I am 77, and I shoot every gun I build. All but one of my ARs are 80 percenters. I am currently welding up a CETME-C. and a PM-63 RAK.
4. One of the posters is very good at math and measuring. Not so much on class or tact.
5. Funny, I think it was one of the guys that tried to push me off of snipershide a few months ago because they were sure I was a fed because I didn't have many posts.
I was trying to help members just getting started in converting 6.5 Creedmoor brass to 8.6 Blk.
6. To the posters using encouragement, THANK YOU! Happy New Year! To the ones throwing shade - Get over yourselves. If you're not having fun, try a new hobby!
2. I was trying to help the previous poster. I reload every caliber I own except 22 and 32 rimfire.
3. Yes, I am 77, and I shoot every gun I build. All but one of my ARs are 80 percenters. I am currently welding up a CETME-C. and a PM-63 RAK.
4. One of the posters is very good at math and measuring. Not so much on class or tact.
5. Funny, I think it was one of the guys that tried to push me off of snipershide a few months ago because they were sure I was a fed because I didn't have many posts.
I was trying to help members just getting started in converting 6.5 Creedmoor brass to 8.6 Blk.6. To the posters using encouragement, THANK YOU! Happy New Year! To the ones throwing shade - Get over yourselves. If you're not having fun, try a new hobby!
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I'd shoot my Valk against a Grendel any day...
The Grendel honestly sucks ass as a LR round. I’ll take a Valkyrie over one any day for that purpose.
I had two Valkyries and they were both solid AF with factory ammo and handloads.
I like the 6.5 G, about as much as anyone. My primary deer gun is an 18” Grendel AR. My most fun match rifle is a 22” Grendel AR. But, I don’t take long shots on game with the former, and the latter runs out of gas around 900 y around here (sea level). Is the Valkyrie better? IDK. Is it dying? Ammo is harder to find than the Grendel, if that is an indication.
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