Is abortion ok

[theLBC]

Tennessee Introduces Bill Allowing Fathers To Prevent An Abortion

A new bill in the Tennessee General Assembly seeks to create a legal procedure in which a man could order to request an injunction prohibiting a woman from having an abortion if she is pregnant with his child. The legislation, SB0494 in the Senate and HB1079 in the House, was sponsored by state...

www.dailywire.com

 

[armorpl8chikn]

This is actually a really good point and one I had not thought of before. As our society moves further away from "physical" labor and more towards "mental" labor, a physical abnormality would not hinder the success of an individual. It may hinder reproductive success. I guess another question would be do individuals with the genetic defects actually reproduce at a significant rate? If not, the mutation is not passed from that individual so does it matter (unless it is a familial trait). Whom better to champion that idea, Stephen hawking.

But isnt it a drain on society as a whole?
Those loyal to humanity have a duty to abort those who are "undesirable".
No?

 

[eelman308]

Much like everybody goes on about Gobbels being such a propagandist, and forget that Gobbels was in awe of the amazing propaganda machine that the USA government had put together in the run up to WWI and only hoped to one day come close to being as good.

He would be dumb struck with what they have done with Covid

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Funny how everybody blames the National Socialists for their Eugenics programs, then conveniently ignores that it was the "Medical science" and academics both in this country and in England and western Europe that were actually the leaders in the whole Eugenics movement for the beginning of the 20th century. People gloss over and ignore all the horrors that doctors with the full approval of the government did here and all the dogma the academics here were putting out.

Much like everybody goes on about Gobbels being such a propagandist, and forget that Gobbels was in awe of the amazing propaganda machine that the USA government had put together in the run up to WWI and only hoped to one day come close to being as good.

No argument from me. Those same people were quite enamored of the Reich and their methods.
Its also clear that those ideals are clearly on the rise right here in good old US ofA

 

[AngryKoala]

But isnt it a drain on society as a whole?
Those loyal to humanity have a duty to abort those who are "undesirable".
No?

Not if the individual can produce. I guess we would then have to define production as well. Let's say you have an individual who is severely handicapped both mentally and physically. They cannot offer society as a whole any sort of meaningful "production."

However, if that individual provides the family a purpose and happiness would that not be a sort of production on a smaller familial scale?

 

[Buzzinga]

I'm talking about earlier in the pregnancy. Not the third trimester.

Doc

The reality is, these situations don't really exist except as footnotes in medical journals. The argument that it is acceptable to kill your baby if he/she presents a life-threatening situation to the mother is complete BS. First, yes, sometimes moms die while giving birth, it is sad and unfortunate but it does sometimes happen.

So, if moms sometimes die giving birth, that means that once a woman becomes pregnant she has a higher risk of dying than a non-pregnant woman, all things being equal. As such, it would be acceptable for any pregnant woman to kill her unborn baby as he/she presents a potential life-threatening situation to the mother that did not exist prior.

Further, when the mom is in bad shape during a pregnancy, an abortion is rarely the correct answer as they take too much time regardless of trimester.

I'm not religious, but if you can't see what's wrong with killing an unborn baby, or you think it is the same as administering too much morphine to an 86-year-old WW2 veteran, Judge, father of seven, and widower, then you are fucking crazy.

Philosophy has a famous saying, "I think therefore I am". This is used in context by Descartes to prove his own existence. In response to all the fancy arguments about existence and whether or not we are really here (think Matrix movie), Descarte basically said, "are you fucking kidding me, I know I exist because I can stand here and think about it, how much more evidence do I need?" Basically, I'm saying the same thing.

To hell with all the fancy arguments and justifications, if you can't tell just by being a human that it is wrong to kill an unborn baby, you have something terribly wrong with you.

 

[Doc68]

Do you have even one example of an illness that would cause this?

Eptopic pregnancy, high blood pressure as to the point of it affecting the heart and circulatory system. Gestanial Diabetes where insulin isnt controlling it.

Those are a few.

Just saying

Doc

 

[Buzzinga]

Eptopic pregnancy, high blood pressure as to the point of it affecting the heart and circulatory system. Gestanial Diabetes where insulin isnt controlling it.

Those are a few.

Just saying

Doc

Yeah, I thought the same thing, which is why I deleted that post. I knew a girl who had an ectopic pregnancy, it was scary. I often wonder if she didn't cause it though by slamming heroin and every other drug in the world in to her body for years. I was referring to healthy pregnancies though, an ectopic pregnancy can't be carried to term.

 

[W54/XM-388]

But isnt it a drain on society as a whole?
Those loyal to humanity have a duty to abort those who are "undesirable".
No?

Something interesting to note that I love to point out to folks who seem to worship doctors and medical "science", is they should go take a look at how doctors used to treat premature babies when they were born here in the good old USA.

Interestingly enough, it was a coney island freak show operator that led the charge to show that with a small amount of extra care, those babies could grow up just fine. And unlike the hospitals, he didn't charge the parents for saving the lives of their babies that the doctors would have left to die (and been quite proud of doing so). He simply paid for it by exhibiting them for the public.

Fake doctor's Coney Island incubator 'side show' that saved thousands of preemie babies | Daily Mail Online

 

[EddieNFL]

Speaking from an evolutionary standpoint,(disregarding moral arguments) would it not be beneficial to only propagate the genes of the most "fit" individual?

At what point do we stop propagating genetic material that does not confer fitness? Could the advancements of science actually lead to a less fit and overall ill-adapted species?

Just throwing these questions out there, I am not stating we should kill babies with defects. I interested in a scientific counter argument (not emotional, nor religious based).

From an amoral position, yes. Pretty sure many cultures did so in the past. Sometimes it was survival of the species and sometimes out of convenience. I'm convinced Chinese parents often kill their female children for want of a male.

Call it religion, emotion or whatever, but right and wrong are part of the argument. If there is no wrong, then right doesn't exist. If that were the case we would have The Purge 24/7/365.

 

[AngryKoala]

From an amoral position, yes. Pretty sure many cultures did so in the past. Sometimes it was survival of the species and sometimes out of convenience. I'm convinced Chinese parents often kill their female children for want of a male.

Call it religion, emotion or whatever, but right and wrong are part of the argument. If there is no wrong, then right doesn't exist. If that were the case we would have The Purge 24/7/365.

Correct, something 308pirate eluded to as well and I believe both of you are correct. However Rthur, proposed an interesting counter on unknown potential thus a counter argument could be made without moral justification.

I wish I had thought of that when the professor posed the question as I was unable to procure an argument without using a moral/ethical counter.

 

[BLEE]

I'm impressed with the civility of this thread. Lol

 

[cast1]

Eptopic pregnancy, high blood pressure as to the point of it affecting the heart and circulatory system. Gestanial Diabetes where insulin isnt controlling it.

Those are a few.

Just saying

Doc

Ectopic pregnancy removal is not an abortion. It’s outside the uterus. Baby can’t survive even if left alone. You don’t abort a pregnancy for preeclampsia, you deliver it. I’ve heard of one abortion in the last 12 years for inability to control gestational diabetes but the girl was a non compliant insulin dependent diabetic to begin with. A big part of me thinks it was an excuse between her and her OBGYN. I could be wrong though as I wasn’t a part of it. Had never seen it before abd never since.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

I'm impressed with the civility of this thread. Lol

1)
Noone wants to get banned, nor have anyone banned.
B. This is a subject that should be discussed, even though, most folks don't want to discuss it, mostly due to the fact they absolutely don't want to think about the subject AT ALL. There is a reason for that.

 

[Doc68]

Ectopic pregnancy removal is not an abortion. It’s outside the uterus. Baby can’t survive even if left alone. You don’t abort a pregnancy for preeclampsia, you deliver it. I’ve heard of one abortion in the last 12 years for inability to control gestational diabetes but the girl was a non compliant insulin dependent diabetic to begin with. A big part of me thinks it was an excuse between her and her OBGYN. I could be wrong though as I wasn’t a part of it. Had never seen it before abd never since.

Right, theres your opinion and feelings being brought into a discussion.

You proved your point.......

Doc

 

[cast1]

Right, theres your opinion and feelings being brought into a discussion.

You proved your point.......

Doc

I wouldn’t say that it’s feelings per se. I’d never heard of such a thing in 12 years of practice and the preceding 8 years of training and haven’t heard since until you mentioned it. So, to clarify, I’m saying the last scenario you mentioned is at least possible, but I’d have to read up on it to verify. It’d have to be a very very severe case.

 

[Devildog]

35 States Allow Babies Born Alive After a Botched Abortion to be Left to Die - LifeNews.com

“Can you look me in the eye and tell me that I shouldn’t be alive?” That was the question 14 abortion survivors never got to ask America. Fox Sports, the host of this year’s Super Bowl, refused to air their ad. Maybe they were afraid of creating controversy. Or maybe, they were worried about...

www.lifenews.com

What a sick country we live in! This is so wrong!

 

[Sniperwannabee]

<—————————————————-


you can choose :
not to have sex
wear a condom
take BC
adoption
responsibility


why is murder an option? BTW why are most vegans and vegetarians for abortion? Crazy twisted sick idiots

 

[Snuby642]

If it's a democrat go ahead and ice pick it.

 

[RGStory]

I was just looking for a scientific counter argument. I am not a proponent of it. Biologically we are all animals and fitness rules survival among the other species in the animal kingdom.

You would have to make the great assumption that humans are better than nature/God at this process.

Whether it is nature or a divine being, you would need to presume that humanity in all its regular stupidity can or could do this better.

We try all the time with animal husbandry, but for every perfectly working Labrador Retriever there are long lists of genetic defects that the breed carries and an incalculable number of failed lines of defective dog breeds. For every dog lover that discusses the benefits of a pure bred, there is a dog owner that has a perfect mutt running around.

Biological diversity is the key to a robust species. Picking and choosing winners based upon temporal perceived superiority would leave us vulnerable to the whims of nature's diabolical and incomprehensibly creative plotting to wipe us out.

From the non-secular angle, I would point to the lessons of the tower of babel and the last time the hubris of humanity sought to out do God on a monumental level.

Either way, it is a recipe for disaster.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

I use to be pro life. Until recent years with today's "climate" (not talking ab the weather), and realizing that I would estimate 95% or more abortions are done by leftist fucks. To me, they're killing off their future voter base and the future people that hate this country and hate people that love it. I say, make an express line and require them to be registered Democrat. Back when there use to be a "middle of the road", I would have never felt this way. Sadly, we are far removed from those days.

 

[powdahound76]

If it's a democrat go ahead and ice pick it.

Thats some of the most idiotic stuff I have read today.
And I looked at CNN’s website.

 

[RGStory]

I will not entertain any debate that attempts to justify the targeted killing of the babies of my enemies. That is a fucking non-starter. I was raised better than that. I am better than that.

My enemies may not be, but that is why I am... and shall always remain in opposition to them.

You start slipping on your core principles and you've already lost.

 

[Aries256]

Never, murder is murder

 

[AngryKoala]

You would have to make the great assumption that humans are better than nature/God at this process.

Whether it is nature or a divine being, you would need to presume that humanity in all its regular stupidity can or could do this better.

We try all the time with animal husbandry, but for every perfectly working Labrador Retriever there are long lists of genetic defects that the breed carries and an incalculable number of failed lines of defective dog breeds. For every dog lover that discusses the benefits of a pure bred, there is a dog owner that has a perfect mutt running around.

Biological diversity is the key to a robust species. Picking and choosing winners based upon temporal perceived superiority would leave us vulnerable to the whims of nature's diabolical and incomprehensibly creative plotting to wipe us out.

From the non-secular angle, I would point to the lessons of the tower of babel and the last time the hubris of humanity sought to out do God on a monumental level.

Either way, it is a recipe for disaster.

Our species has invented a vast array of transportation modes. This has caused the intermingling of different genetic mutations. Over time, would this not lead to homogenization of our genetic code, thus a less diverse species?

 

[W54/XM-388]

Our species has invented a vast array of transportation modes. This has caused the intermingling of different genetic mutations. Over time, would this not lead to homogenization of our genetic code, thus a less diverse species?

Having a mixture of many of the best parts of different genes tends to often make for an evolutionary advantage.

I'd say we are unlikely to reach a problem with genetic stagnation as a planet anytime soon unless we all continue hiding in our homes and countries on a long term permanent basis. But even then, our genetic code may just revert to the time proven mixing methods of waves of creatures raping their way back and forth across the continents.

 

[AngryKoala]

Having a mixture of many of the best parts of different genes tends to often make for an evolutionary advantage.

I'd say we are unlikely to reach a problem with genetic stagnation as a planet anytime soon unless we all continue hiding in our homes and countries on a long term permanent basis. But even then, our genetic code may just revert to the time proven mixing methods of waves of creatures raping their way back and forth across the continents.

Geographic isolation also helps with mutation. This has to be followed by emigration to other geographic locations for population introduction.
Kind of an interesting topic to think about but I'll be long dead before I get to see it play out...back to pornhub....I mean work.

 

[tiNdvenTFHwMdqKW]

Moral judgement aside. Abortion, Gun Control, Religion, ... and now COVID are really just tools of the politicians to manipulate the voters. They are emotionally motivating topics that really should be left to either the individual or the community that is directly affected.

 

[theLBC]

Moral judgement aside. Abortion, Gun Control, Religion, ... and now COVID are really just tools of the politicians to manipulate the voters. They are emotionally motivating topics that really should be left to either the individual or the community that is directly affected.

i think there is some truth in this.

with a few exceptions, i don't believe politicians care about us beyond our help to put them in power.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

My logic on the subject is that a human embryo cannot be anything else but human, and that the deliberate termination of a human embryo cannot, by definition, constitute anything other than homicide. Arguments about the age of of an embryo are evasive and without merit, because very simply, that embryo cannot, by any means, develop into any other species but a human.

Greg

 

[OkieMike]

My logic on the subject is that a human embryo cannot be anything else but human, and that the deliberate termination of a human embryo cannot, by definition, constitute anything other than homicide. Arguments about the age of of an embryo are evasive and without merit, because very simply, that embryo cannot, by any means, develop into any other species but a human.

Greg

I remember freshman biology and being taught that up until a certain "age" that human embryos were indistinguishable from other vertebrate embryos... I remember duck embryos being one of the examples... Of course the implied logic was, "See, they really aren't 'humans' at this point."

But, silly me, my reasoning told me that when a human female inexplicably gives birth to a duck or a puppy, we could take another look at this discussion... Until then I would err on the side of the embryo being human from conception.

Mike

 

[Jim Out]

35 States Allow Babies Born Alive After a Botched Abortion to be Left to Die - LifeNews.com

“Can you look me in the eye and tell me that I shouldn’t be alive?” That was the question 14 abortion survivors never got to ask America. Fox Sports, the host of this year’s Super Bowl, refused to air their ad. Maybe they were afraid of creating controversy. Or maybe, they were worried about...

www.lifenews.com

What a sick country we live in! This is so wrong!

^^^^this



The abortion survivors featured in the ad are: Dr. Imre Téglásy (1952, Hungary); Paula Page (02/24/54); Miriam “Penny” Hopper (11/29/55); Denisha Workizer (7/11/76); Melissa Ohden (8/29/77); Jennifer Millbourn (9/02/78); Jennifer Callender (7/18/80); Claire Culwell (3/06/88); Hope Hoffman (8/12/91); Josiah Presley (10/07/95); Asiimwe Ronald Williams (9/25/97, Uganda); Dona Marie Mendoza (Philippines); Jaylyn Schoch (8/15/03); and Zechariah Hagan (10/20/13), one of the first abortion pill reversal survivors.

Fox Allows Super Bowl Ad With Drag Queens, Won’t Approve Pro-Life Commercial - LifeNews.com

FOX Sports apparently has no problem airing controversial ads during the 2020 Super Bowl — just not a pro-life commercial. According to NBC News, this year’s big game between the Kansas City Chiefs and the San Francisco 49ers will include a commercial featuring drag queens/LGBTQ activists...

www.lifenews.com

Welcome to Faces of Choice - Faces of Choice

Faces of Choice perservere through the ulimate test of Faith, Hope and Healing compel us to share them with you incase you need help healing too!

facesofchoice.org

 

[Longshot231]

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

A woman should have the rights to decide.
It's her body.

 

[theLBC]

A woman should have the rights to decide.
It's her body.

ok, but if she has the sole authority over the life or death of the child, the sperm donor should not be financially liable for it.
nor should my taxes have any contribution to the death.

 

[addertooth]

A woman should have the rights to decide.
It's her body.

I would utterly agree, as long as her action only affect "her body".
What makes me different than you? Our DNA is different. Even Identical twins have variations in their DNA (at the DNA level, they are not truly identical). The moment the DNA is different, it is considered "another person". So sure, if a woman wants got get surgery, on HER body, that is HER right. When she wants to perform surgery on herself (and another person), that gets a bit muddy.

You can punch yourself in the face, and you will likely not go to jail. But if you punch another person in the face, the outcome will likely be different. A woman goes to get an abortion, and will likely come out whole. The same is not true of the other person, which is temporarily residing within her.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

A foetus isn't a person.

 

[SQ54]

Our species has invented a vast array of transportation modes. This has caused the intermingling of different genetic mutations. Over time, would this not lead to homogenization of our genetic code, thus a less diverse species?

About 70,000 years BP, most all humans were killed so that there were only about 3000 total survivors. That means every woman on earth is your sister.

Youngest Toba eruption - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

If that meteorite hadn't initiated the demise of dinosaurs, I doubt our ancestors would have been able to compete with them.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

Complete fiction.

 

[EddieNFL]

A foetus isn't a person.

Prior to the 10 week point I always wonder what they will be... human, wookiee, grumpy?

 

[EddieNFL]

Complete fiction.

Well, it is a cartoon...so...

 

[Smith10mm]

A foetus isn't a person.

When does a fetus become a person? At what point does it become murder to kill your baby grumpy fart? Do you think you should be able to kill the baby 3 days before it's born?

 

[Smith10mm]

I could get on board with the my body my choice thing if the woman was giving birth to a watermelon. Instead she is actually giving birth to another human being therefore there are two people involved... You can't just go snuff out your mother-in-law because she's inconvenient and a pain in your ass.

 

[memtb]

Only in a few, very extreme medical issues.

However, I do believe in “post birth” abortions! If a person, say by age 25, has proven to be a blight on humanity (murderer, marxist, ect)......abort them! If your not the solution......you are the problem! memtb

 

[Docsherm]

Here is something to make you get out of your comfort zone and truly think:

If you do not fully support Planned Parenthood and Abortion then you are more at fault then the progressive socialist that are destroying our country, no matter your religious beliefs. I am not trying to insult anyone’s beliefs. Keep believing what you want and practice your beliefs. Just don’t cut off your nose to spite your face. I am simply pointing out facts that need to be said.

Here is the reality of it. We are at war for our country and out way of life. In war death is a fact. If you look at the numbers, then you must support it. As an example, here in Texas in 2019 the numbers speak for themselves. 83% of all the abortions were in areas that vote blue. Only 26% were white woman. Is that racist? No, it is simply stating a documented fact. What this tell me is that if we not only allow it but also fund it is not affecting likeminded people.

Title 10 funding, Federal money for Planned Parenthood and abortions, was a plan by Conservatives to combat the Democrats Welfare acts in the 1960’s. All of those that do not support it are taking away a weapon in this war on freedom. All of you that call yourselves Patriots and Americans, would you send the American Military to fight in the middle east without their best weapon?

If you do not think we are at war for our very existence, then you are either a fool or simply lying to yourself. Have your beliefs, rather religious or cultural, that is fine. I am not saying you should not. I support that. Just don’t be like the libtards on the left and project those to all people. If you do not want a gun, then do not own one but do not take that away from me. That is what we say to the left. If you do not want an abortion, then do not have one but do not take that away from me.

There is already too much hypocrisy. One side supports the death penalty, and one supports abortion. Both are murder.

Not everyone is capable of fighting in a war. That is why less then 1% of Americans have been in the Military. And of that number, even less actually go out and shoot people in the face. If you are not emotionally capable of doing that then don’t tell me how to do it. I never had an issue with it. The same goes for the war for freedom here. If you are not capable of making the hard calls that will help win the war, then be quiet and stay back and let those that can do it make that call.

The Moral high ground is and excuse that losers use. Winners do not need to say it because they won. So, if you are fine being a looser then great, move over and let the winners take over.



Source:

https://www.hhs.texas.gov/sites/default/files/documents/about-hhs/records-statistics/research-statistics/itop/2019/2019-itop-narrative-texas-residents.pdf

 

[Rthur]

Here is something to make you get out of your comfort zone and truly think:

If you do not fully support Planned Parenthood and Abortion then you are more at fault then the progressive socialist that are destroying our country, no matter your religious beliefs. I am not trying to insult anyone’s beliefs. Keep believing what you want and practice your beliefs. Just don’t cut off your nose to spite your face. I am simply pointing out facts that need to be said.

Here is the reality of it. We are at war for our country and out way of life. In war death is a fact. If you look at the numbers, then you must support it. As an example, here in Texas in 2019 the numbers speak for themselves. 83% of all the abortions were in areas that vote blue. Only 26% were white woman. Is that racist? No, it is simply stating a documented fact. What this tell me is that if we not only allow it but also fund it is not affecting likeminded people.

Title 10 funding, Federal money for Planned Parenthood and abortions, was a plan by Conservatives to combat the Democrats Welfare acts in the 1960’s. All of those that do not support it are taking away a weapon in this war on freedom. All of you that call yourselves Patriots and Americans, would you send the American Military to fight in the middle east without their best weapon?

If you do not think we are at war for our very existence, then you are either a fool or simply lying to yourself. Have your beliefs, rather religious or cultural, that is fine. I am not saying you should not. I support that. Just don’t be like the libtards on the left and project those to all people. If you do not want a gun, then do not own one but do not take that away from me. That is what we say to the left. If you do not want an abortion, then do not have one but do not take that away from me.

There is already too much hypocrisy. One side supports the death penalty, and one supports abortion. Both are murder.

Not everyone is capable of fighting in a war. That is why less then 1% of Americans have been in the Military. And of that number, even less actually go out and shoot people in the face. If you are not emotionally capable of doing that then don’t tell me how to do it. I never had an issue with it. The same goes for the war for freedom here. If you are not capable of making the hard calls that will help win the war, then be quiet and stay back and let those that can do it make that call.

The Moral high ground is and excuse that losers use. Winners do not need to say it because they won. So, if you are fine being a looser then great, move over and let the winners take over.



Source:

https://www.hhs.texas.gov/sites/default/files/documents/about-hhs/records-statistics/research-statistics/itop/2019/2019-itop-narrative-texas-residents.pdf

Death penalty and abortion comparison is a false equivalency.
Coined by politicians using their failed logic.
One is without fault.
One has proven they cannot live within the constraints of society.
In fact they have more than likely deprived others of their lives.

R

 

[theLBC]

Complete fiction.

it is worse in real life.

 

[918v]

A foetus isn't a person.

In your case, yes.

 

[Docsherm]

Death penalty and abortion comparison is a false equivalency.
Coined by politicians using their failed logic.
One is without fault.
One has proven they cannot live within the constraints of society.
In fact they have more than likely deprived others of their lives.

R

But the Bible says "Thou shalt not kill". I do not remember reading any caveats........


What about the children that die in wars that we were in? Say those in Afghanistan, Iraq, Germany, Japan, etc................ So we should not have bombed them because they were innocents?

War is war. End of story.