OP, you sort of answered your question in your first post.
Your buddy has a plate carrier, if the SHTF just stand behind him.
Your buddy has a plate carrier, if the SHTF just stand behind him.
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Is body armor necessary for a civilian?
- Thread starter Awag1000
- Start date
Even if you ignore spalling/coating concerns, steel is just a bad option considering how many companies have been caught with their pants down selling different plates than what they sent off to be rated, poor QC on heat treatment, lying about capabilites, using cheat rings, etc..
Why trust your life to sleezy liars when you can get decent, properly rated ceramics from companies that actually do proper recalls if they encounter a production issue instead of trying to hide it. The price gap has shrunk immensely, and ceramic plates aren't as fragile as steel shillers want you to believe.
Why trust your life to sleezy liars when you can get decent, properly rated ceramics from companies that actually do proper recalls if they encounter a production issue instead of trying to hide it. The price gap has shrunk immensely, and ceramic plates aren't as fragile as steel shillers want you to believe.
Reference TheGerman's post about heat killing composite plates. Steel plates suck to wear, but they don't degrade in the heat. So, if needing something to toss in the trunk of the car/truck to forget about, but have as insurance against not having anything, then (coated) steel makes perfect sense.
I tested 10 year old Second Change level3 soft Police issue at the range . I tested all my old approved vests as well including a couple from Point Blank . All stopped 9mm hollows , 45 , 38 . These were worn by me through nasty sweaty hot days directing traffic and having several people puke all over me.
. Officially they have a designated service life. But mine held
I have not read any of the other comments yet. I will go back and read later. If however I say or don't say the same thing as others you will know why.
The underlying question is "do you need it". I've gone back and forth a lot on this. I'm not a cop or military and I say "it depends".
The primary thing I would want body armor for (as a civilian) would be if I were to be exposed to social unrest and/or really bad neighborhoods.
Where I live now it's hardly on my priority list. I live about 15 miles from the nearest gas station in a pretty conservative area. If I lived in any kind of urban area my answer would be totally different.
At present I'm not exposing myself to going in a building to get a bad guy or something like that. Where I am at I can pretty much lay low if it came down to it.
That said, I live close enough to a major city that if things break down socially wise people will be headed my direction for sure. Which is another reason to give it a potential 'yes'.
In my current way of thinking, body armor would be treated like hurricane preparedness equipment. You don't typically use it until you need to use it.
The underlying question is "do you need it". I've gone back and forth a lot on this. I'm not a cop or military and I say "it depends".
The primary thing I would want body armor for (as a civilian) would be if I were to be exposed to social unrest and/or really bad neighborhoods.
Where I live now it's hardly on my priority list. I live about 15 miles from the nearest gas station in a pretty conservative area. If I lived in any kind of urban area my answer would be totally different.
At present I'm not exposing myself to going in a building to get a bad guy or something like that. Where I am at I can pretty much lay low if it came down to it.
That said, I live close enough to a major city that if things break down socially wise people will be headed my direction for sure. Which is another reason to give it a potential 'yes'.
In my current way of thinking, body armor would be treated like hurricane preparedness equipment. You don't typically use it until you need to use it.
Covert bath robe sounds legit. It'll conceal my tactical Hawaiian shirt!
I have no idea what this means, but I am happy to see you laughing rather than crying like usual.
If you're prepping for the end of the world, practice being able to keep at least 1,000 yards away from unwelcome guests.
This taken from another site on the expiration date of body armor:
These products have chemical components like Kevlar, composite, or other types of fiber that might degrade after some time. According to studies, UV rays can also be a significant factor that lessens the shelf life of the protective gear. Extreme heat, on the other hand, may affect particular materials, which may cause it to deform. Constant exposure can shorten the estimated expiration cut-off of the gear. For example, the expiration of your bulletproof vest is five years. Working in a humid location can make the degradation process faster, which means the vest can expire earlier than the given cut-off time.
The internal parts might have cracks, bendings, and warping from use. These damages might result in easier bullet penetration to the body armor, which could be fatal to the wearer. Soft armor degrades faster than hard armor because it is more susceptible to damage in hot and humid environments. Moreover, improper storage could also lead to moisture build-up, which again could cause earlier degradation of the bulletproof material.
Having retired from both military and law enforcement, I have worn a few types over the years and while I am not sure what procedures are in place for military body armor, in LE, we would get new vests every 8-10 years or so. My old ones still appear to be serviceable, but you never know. This type of thinking is also used in other safety equipment like motorcycle helmets when they recommend you replace them every five years as the materials used to make them break down and the helmet may not be as effective. While the helmet may look new, it's up to you if you want to continue to wear it for several more years. I wore my current vest setup during our last local protest/riot going on in town. A friend and I stayed in my wife's store and kept the nuts out. Had a few folks look in but nobody decided to try and crash the gates and get in.
These products have chemical components like Kevlar, composite, or other types of fiber that might degrade after some time. According to studies, UV rays can also be a significant factor that lessens the shelf life of the protective gear. Extreme heat, on the other hand, may affect particular materials, which may cause it to deform. Constant exposure can shorten the estimated expiration cut-off of the gear. For example, the expiration of your bulletproof vest is five years. Working in a humid location can make the degradation process faster, which means the vest can expire earlier than the given cut-off time.
The internal parts might have cracks, bendings, and warping from use. These damages might result in easier bullet penetration to the body armor, which could be fatal to the wearer. Soft armor degrades faster than hard armor because it is more susceptible to damage in hot and humid environments. Moreover, improper storage could also lead to moisture build-up, which again could cause earlier degradation of the bulletproof material.
Having retired from both military and law enforcement, I have worn a few types over the years and while I am not sure what procedures are in place for military body armor, in LE, we would get new vests every 8-10 years or so. My old ones still appear to be serviceable, but you never know. This type of thinking is also used in other safety equipment like motorcycle helmets when they recommend you replace them every five years as the materials used to make them break down and the helmet may not be as effective. While the helmet may look new, it's up to you if you want to continue to wear it for several more years. I wore my current vest setup during our last local protest/riot going on in town. A friend and I stayed in my wife's store and kept the nuts out. Had a few folks look in but nobody decided to try and crash the gates and get in.
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Does anyone make lightweight 3+ stuff that's stab proof that's "immediate death organs" area only?
Like something that ends above your belly button so you could still wear a normal AIWB holster, has armor all the way around? Suppose sports bra kinda comes to mind as a guy reads this.
My biggest issue with this stuff was not even knowing how a guy would carry with it, outside of being in a situation where you don't care...
Any in the waistband type holster/gun combo didn't look like it would work with what I saw, but if a guy has something lower profile that also stopped a bit higher on the body, in theory it'd actually help hide a firearm for concealed carry.
Block heart/lungs from front, side, back... fine with something that blocks handgun rounds and knives, light, not steel.
Like something that ends above your belly button so you could still wear a normal AIWB holster, has armor all the way around? Suppose sports bra kinda comes to mind as a guy reads this.
My biggest issue with this stuff was not even knowing how a guy would carry with it, outside of being in a situation where you don't care...
Any in the waistband type holster/gun combo didn't look like it would work with what I saw, but if a guy has something lower profile that also stopped a bit higher on the body, in theory it'd actually help hide a firearm for concealed carry.
Block heart/lungs from front, side, back... fine with something that blocks handgun rounds and knives, light, not steel.
Difficult to block heart/lungs from the side. 3+ armor is thick (~1"), so imagine a 1" thick plate under your armpit. Most side armor only comes up to your lower ribs. The other issue is weight a wrap around 3+ bra would be very heavy, quite bulky and very inflexible. 3+ armor is rigid. One thing to do wilt body armor is keep the plate towards the shooter. while this will protect the armored area it also makes you a bigger target. turn 45 or 90 degrees to the threat and the armor does very little. People watch TV and think vests make you bullet proof, they may just prevent the quick death shot. Your head, neck and many major arteries are not protected.
If you can't afford to get a decent vest but want one, my recommendation is to have fat friends you can hide behind for protection.
Three years ago I was talking shit to my buddies who had armor. Then, the left went off the fucking deep end and started burning down our cities. The Sheep left bought up every fucking pistol, rifle, shotgun and all the ammo in the country. Untrained, scared leftists. When burning down the city wasn’t enough they started coming not only into neighborhoods but to peoples houses for perceived inequities.
99.99% chance my ass will never need it, but I train and compete with it. I have no illusions of fighting my way out of a house against a superior force. If they get the drop and happen to pick my house it’s over, but if they want to put up a gunfight before they figure out burning it down is WAY more effective and safer I’m going to prolong it and take as many street rats as I can with me.
As I type this out, it’s sounds fucking crazy but think about what we saw the last year of Trump and how every election cycle shit has gotten more and more violent and local. It’s not just Detroit, Chicago, etc. Is it so far fetched that you may have to drive out to safety on a highway that has violent, armed protesters on it? (Again) Would you like to cover your kid or your wife as you made that run?
Again. I don’t consider myself a prepper and I’m not scared shitless if the cops but if the last few years have taught us anything it’s that shit we never dreamed could happen is happening and it’s escalating. As a grown man, you do your threat assessment and make you own choices.
Flip side is, is also makes training a lot more enjoyable. I get to play ninja as an old, crippled former Army Leg which makes me smile right up until the time my hammies start cramping from the compression in my lower back.
Edit: one more thing to consider, if you have it and don’t need/want it you can always take it off. This shit doesn’t grow on trees…
99.99% chance my ass will never need it, but I train and compete with it. I have no illusions of fighting my way out of a house against a superior force. If they get the drop and happen to pick my house it’s over, but if they want to put up a gunfight before they figure out burning it down is WAY more effective and safer I’m going to prolong it and take as many street rats as I can with me.
As I type this out, it’s sounds fucking crazy but think about what we saw the last year of Trump and how every election cycle shit has gotten more and more violent and local. It’s not just Detroit, Chicago, etc. Is it so far fetched that you may have to drive out to safety on a highway that has violent, armed protesters on it? (Again) Would you like to cover your kid or your wife as you made that run?
Again. I don’t consider myself a prepper and I’m not scared shitless if the cops but if the last few years have taught us anything it’s that shit we never dreamed could happen is happening and it’s escalating. As a grown man, you do your threat assessment and make you own choices.
Flip side is, is also makes training a lot more enjoyable. I get to play ninja as an old, crippled former Army Leg which makes me smile right up until the time my hammies start cramping from the compression in my lower back.
Edit: one more thing to consider, if you have it and don’t need/want it you can always take it off. This shit doesn’t grow on trees…
Owning a plate carrier and plates when you have no habit of putting yourself in a position to ever need them makes them nothing but a larping costume. The day you need body armor, you'll also need a field medic, a team of surgeons, an ambulance, a psychiatrist and a lawyer. Line up the other stuff first, then get the body armor.
First off, I have to say, I love the comment #43 made!! 308pirate Nothing personal people but, everyone starting at a young age should
learn to get comfortable making decisions after the do some research. A very nice young friend of mine ( 29YO ) cant make a decision without
talking it over with everyone she knows starting with Mommy! I find that quality in people repulsive!
Just for fun, I pulled up some different BA info. I didn't see enough price difference to worry about getting L3 or L4 if you actually
want or need it? I'm a single guy that has worked very hard and spends money like a drunken sailor on anything that I want. Need
doesn't even come into play.
$4000.00 on the gun and extras and $2000.00 on the Trijicon 5-50x56 scope. People frequently tell ME what I need. And that I don't need
a 50 power scope to shoot. If they knew what Field Target was, they may realize that my 6.5-20 Leupold wasn't competitive after the worlds in 1993.
My point .... I want it for what I do!! In fact, I have two of them.
I would never buy a cheap parachute or skip the optional $50.00 para-swivel to save few bucks. ( Without it, the chute rotates during
decent and that causes the gore to wind up and collapse your chute during decent. ) I have never personally seen anyone need to deploy
while flying a hang-glider. I have seen a glider come down after a mid air. The right hand down tube was bent and nearly broke in half.
What you need to bear in mind is that an aircraft cable is built into the hollow tube frame for just that sort of thing.
My back up scuba regulator is what a lot of people use for their primary. I have never used the chute or back -up regulator but would
never fly or dive without them. I almost almost wear seat belts. I never drink and drive if I have had more than one. The penalty is too great!
I now live in a town of 10,000 people and it's a retirement community in west Tn. I don't see the need for any sort of BA based on
what I do and where I go. For 40 years I lived 20 miles west of Detroit and worked on Telegraph and 8 mile road. That is right
on the edge of SKANKY Detroit!! btw... the median individual income here is under 30K and the industry is taking care of
the old people.
I saw one vest that uses UHMWPE. ( Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene )..... WoW! That sounds so cool and high tech.
Its a fairly soft polymer that they use in knee reconstruction and lube free bearings etc. It is similar to Teflon but slightly softer to better
absorb shock.
It's cost is .47 cents per cubic inch. Teflon is $3.58 per cubic inch. Poly carbonate, the stuff in bullet resistant glass is $3.66 per cubic inch.
I have used UHMW in machine designs since 1984.
Some of their design criteria may have been influenced by material cost. You can also get it as recycled black which is cheaper still.
I can see some of the logic to the fire extinguisher, home generator, condom rationale, better to have it and not need it than to need it
and not have it. BUT... in my short 60 year lifetime, including growing up, we only lost power long enough to lose the cold food one time.
It was out for about 11 days. That's not worth me buying a home generator. But if we adhere to the just in case rule, anyone in
a tall building needs to have a rope and take climbing lessons. On really tall building, you should have a parachute.
In my original post, #2, I said "reasonable eventuality" . OMG... I almost missed this one! Have all of the "just in case" people gotten
their Covid shots?? I believe everyone should have that choice.
Since we are all going to do the smartest and safest thing just in case aliens attack. I have to ask;
How many people buying BA, stocking up on ammo, hoardings MREs, etc. How many of those people smoke
cigarettes and drink booze or chew tobacco etc?? We all know that it's just a stupid habits! My gal pal is always broke and her gas tank is
always near empty. Still she spend $300.00 a month on cigarettes. Britts boyfriend bought $600.00 worth of MREs and has an AK
instead of an AR because it will shoot when full of mud. Based on the cost of MREs and them having three people to feed, I think he is
woefully under prepared. I'm one of those hoarding bastards that bought 9 months worth of food both canned and dry when Covid started..
Based on many empty selves at Walmart and people missing work, I saw lack of food a real possibility. If this town gets 1" of snow,
virtually half of the town calls in unable to work. That boggles my mind.
What do you think he see happening? China having a ground assault and him holding them off with his AK? If I'm China.... blow up the entire house
and get rid of the round eyed bastard!
Almost all of my shooting is done at home, alone. I have been in danger at the LGC twice last year for .22 BR shooting. If someone comes to
the house, my two dogs bark like crazy and I have gun in hand. I live alone and they are already loaded. In ten years, only two cars of people I
didn't know came down my 700 foot drive. They were met with my S.S. Springfield 1911. I wasn't waving it around but I wasn't
hiding it either. I spoke to to last group of four 25 year old kids for a short time. They were out of the car before they noticed it. Before leaving
the driver had put a drink on the car over the drivers seat. He forgot it so as they were leaving I had the perfect opportunity to blow off a
round into the dirt to get the drivers attention.
I didn't want the four kids to leave and think the gun was MT and purely for show. An MT gun is useless!!
I took a 2 minute read of spalling. "Bullet splash" Makes perfect sense. My AR500 targets don't deform so the bullet blows to bits
and sprays all over staying nearly on the impact plane. Ceramic is designed to allow the bullet to create a miniature cavity. Like a tiny
meteor impact crater. See photo #5 of Meteor Crater off I-40 in Arizona. Any bullet splash would have to be directed back away from the
impact plane much like water splashing up and away from the water surface after you toss a rock into the pond.
If you didn't know, body armor has a shelf-life, and in the case of standard ceramic body armor, its life is underwhelming, especially giving the cost. Standard ceramic body armor only last 5-7 years.
Does AR500 armor expire?
The ballistic steel core of our body armor has an indefinite shelf life as long as the coating is not compromised and exposes it to moisture, to include sweat.
Do ceramic plates need trauma pads?
Yes, you still need trauma pads with ceramic armor. Ceramic plates are Type III or IV hard armor plates designed to stop high-velocity rifle bullets. If you don't wear soft body armor behind your ceramic plate, a trauma pad can reduce the risk of blunt-force trauma injuries resulting from ballistic impact.
Does Kevlar stop 556?
A 5.56 round would go through Kevlar fabric vests like toilet paper. Basically you couldn't wear enough Kevlar to stop a rifle bullet. It was never designed to stop a bullet with that much energy. The old Kevlar FLAK Jackets wouldn't even stop a 9mm fired at close range because it was designed to stop metal fragments.
learn to get comfortable making decisions after the do some research. A very nice young friend of mine ( 29YO ) cant make a decision without
talking it over with everyone she knows starting with Mommy! I find that quality in people repulsive!
Just for fun, I pulled up some different BA info. I didn't see enough price difference to worry about getting L3 or L4 if you actually
want or need it? I'm a single guy that has worked very hard and spends money like a drunken sailor on anything that I want. Need
doesn't even come into play.
$4000.00 on the gun and extras and $2000.00 on the Trijicon 5-50x56 scope. People frequently tell ME what I need. And that I don't need
a 50 power scope to shoot. If they knew what Field Target was, they may realize that my 6.5-20 Leupold wasn't competitive after the worlds in 1993.
My point .... I want it for what I do!! In fact, I have two of them.
I would never buy a cheap parachute or skip the optional $50.00 para-swivel to save few bucks. ( Without it, the chute rotates during
decent and that causes the gore to wind up and collapse your chute during decent. ) I have never personally seen anyone need to deploy
while flying a hang-glider. I have seen a glider come down after a mid air. The right hand down tube was bent and nearly broke in half.
What you need to bear in mind is that an aircraft cable is built into the hollow tube frame for just that sort of thing.
My back up scuba regulator is what a lot of people use for their primary. I have never used the chute or back -up regulator but would
never fly or dive without them. I almost almost wear seat belts. I never drink and drive if I have had more than one. The penalty is too great!
I now live in a town of 10,000 people and it's a retirement community in west Tn. I don't see the need for any sort of BA based on
what I do and where I go. For 40 years I lived 20 miles west of Detroit and worked on Telegraph and 8 mile road. That is right
on the edge of SKANKY Detroit!! btw... the median individual income here is under 30K and the industry is taking care of
the old people.
I saw one vest that uses UHMWPE. ( Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene )..... WoW! That sounds so cool and high tech.
Its a fairly soft polymer that they use in knee reconstruction and lube free bearings etc. It is similar to Teflon but slightly softer to better
absorb shock.
It's cost is .47 cents per cubic inch. Teflon is $3.58 per cubic inch. Poly carbonate, the stuff in bullet resistant glass is $3.66 per cubic inch.
I have used UHMW in machine designs since 1984.
Some of their design criteria may have been influenced by material cost. You can also get it as recycled black which is cheaper still.
I can see some of the logic to the fire extinguisher, home generator, condom rationale, better to have it and not need it than to need it
and not have it. BUT... in my short 60 year lifetime, including growing up, we only lost power long enough to lose the cold food one time.
It was out for about 11 days. That's not worth me buying a home generator. But if we adhere to the just in case rule, anyone in
a tall building needs to have a rope and take climbing lessons. On really tall building, you should have a parachute.
In my original post, #2, I said "reasonable eventuality" . OMG... I almost missed this one! Have all of the "just in case" people gotten
their Covid shots?? I believe everyone should have that choice.
Since we are all going to do the smartest and safest thing just in case aliens attack. I have to ask;
How many people buying BA, stocking up on ammo, hoardings MREs, etc. How many of those people smoke
cigarettes and drink booze or chew tobacco etc?? We all know that it's just a stupid habits! My gal pal is always broke and her gas tank is
always near empty. Still she spend $300.00 a month on cigarettes. Britts boyfriend bought $600.00 worth of MREs and has an AK
instead of an AR because it will shoot when full of mud. Based on the cost of MREs and them having three people to feed, I think he is
woefully under prepared. I'm one of those hoarding bastards that bought 9 months worth of food both canned and dry when Covid started..
Based on many empty selves at Walmart and people missing work, I saw lack of food a real possibility. If this town gets 1" of snow,
virtually half of the town calls in unable to work. That boggles my mind.
What do you think he see happening? China having a ground assault and him holding them off with his AK? If I'm China.... blow up the entire house
and get rid of the round eyed bastard!
Almost all of my shooting is done at home, alone. I have been in danger at the LGC twice last year for .22 BR shooting. If someone comes to
the house, my two dogs bark like crazy and I have gun in hand. I live alone and they are already loaded. In ten years, only two cars of people I
didn't know came down my 700 foot drive. They were met with my S.S. Springfield 1911. I wasn't waving it around but I wasn't
hiding it either. I spoke to to last group of four 25 year old kids for a short time. They were out of the car before they noticed it. Before leaving
the driver had put a drink on the car over the drivers seat. He forgot it so as they were leaving I had the perfect opportunity to blow off a
round into the dirt to get the drivers attention.
I didn't want the four kids to leave and think the gun was MT and purely for show. An MT gun is useless!!
I took a 2 minute read of spalling. "Bullet splash" Makes perfect sense. My AR500 targets don't deform so the bullet blows to bits
and sprays all over staying nearly on the impact plane. Ceramic is designed to allow the bullet to create a miniature cavity. Like a tiny
meteor impact crater. See photo #5 of Meteor Crater off I-40 in Arizona. Any bullet splash would have to be directed back away from the
impact plane much like water splashing up and away from the water surface after you toss a rock into the pond.
If you didn't know, body armor has a shelf-life, and in the case of standard ceramic body armor, its life is underwhelming, especially giving the cost. Standard ceramic body armor only last 5-7 years.
Does AR500 armor expire?
The ballistic steel core of our body armor has an indefinite shelf life as long as the coating is not compromised and exposes it to moisture, to include sweat.
Do ceramic plates need trauma pads?
Yes, you still need trauma pads with ceramic armor. Ceramic plates are Type III or IV hard armor plates designed to stop high-velocity rifle bullets. If you don't wear soft body armor behind your ceramic plate, a trauma pad can reduce the risk of blunt-force trauma injuries resulting from ballistic impact.
Does Kevlar stop 556?
A 5.56 round would go through Kevlar fabric vests like toilet paper. Basically you couldn't wear enough Kevlar to stop a rifle bullet. It was never designed to stop a bullet with that much energy. The old Kevlar FLAK Jackets wouldn't even stop a 9mm fired at close range because it was designed to stop metal fragments.
Attachments
So, by your logic, if one tends to avoid trouble, then why bother even having anything to protect yourself?
if you "have a habit of putting yourself in a position to need them," chances are you will have a short life expectancy.
Assuming a somewhat functional society, lawyers, ambulance and hospitals are usually readily available, IF you manage to stay alive to need their services.
Having body armour can increase your chances of living to be able to take advantage of their services, assuming you have it available when you might needed it and actually wear it. No guarantee, but if you are spending thousands on guns and ammo, it would be foolish not to spend the extra $300 to $1k on some body armour just incase you need it one day.
Honestly if you have time to be on this forum you do. Prove me wrong.
The day that I have to take my wife and kids and bolt out of town for their safety, Is a day that I am going to want to have a PC for me, the wife and the oldest kid too. When the baby boy gets big enough to wear one, I will have one for him too.
I have one for myself and wife now. The wife's also doubles as a minimalist set up, both have level 3+ high dense plates and are light weight.
I would have never thought of ever needing to use a plate carrier again before the summer of rioting happened. After seeing that, and the very real possibility of these antifa nuts coming into neighborhoods, burning whole blocks down, ect... Everything changed.
Not only did they do it, but they got away with it. It's not a matter of if it will happen again it's a matter of when and how much worse it will be. When it does, I damn sure don't want to wish I'd gotten some protection for my family. That $500 is well worth it for me.
Fuck armor, if SHTF I'm going to do copious amounts of psychedelics and be a berzerker.
In a scenario where ranged weapons will dominate, I wouldn't expect you to have a long life expectancy doing that.
Remember the summer of Soros / DNC funded riots?
The Antifa goons all had a command structure with armed agents on hand to start killing anyone who wouldn't be cowered.
Expect a few Antifa goons to be armed and ready to kill you without hesitation.
As Kenosha Kyle lived to tell the story about but others weren't so fortunate.
The Antifa bs will certainly ramp up again....
Be Ready.
Be Ready.
AS long as nothing bad happens to our nation, you don't really need body armor.
I recommend getting level III+ Ceramic/UHMWPE hybrids.
I recommend getting level III+ Ceramic/UHMWPE hybrids.
Now that my witty response has gone by the wayside, I'm going to make a real not tongue in cheek response.
A: Don't fuck our nation up so much that we are engaging in violence. Like a divorce, the best way to avoid it is to look at yourself and change some shit you are doing first.
If A = FUCKED, B:
1. Learn that making and executing plans that keep you out of situations where you need body armor and weapons is the number one way to avoid growing excess orifices.
2. Figure out that getting to some motherfucking cover is more important than shooting.
3. Learn how to shoot - most people can't. If you can't hit them, and they can't hit you, it all comes down to who has indirect fire and is good at maneuver warfare. It probably won't be you.
4. Then, when you are skilled at 1-3...build up your kit without body armor and train the fuck out of it.
5. When you feel your personal fitness is in a good spot and you have excess budget for the weight of armor, put the armor on and rock it. If you aren't engaged in mounted work from a vehicle or fixed location defense, VERY few people who know what the score is ever feel they have the fitness budget for armor.
A: Don't fuck our nation up so much that we are engaging in violence. Like a divorce, the best way to avoid it is to look at yourself and change some shit you are doing first.
If A = FUCKED, B:
1. Learn that making and executing plans that keep you out of situations where you need body armor and weapons is the number one way to avoid growing excess orifices.
2. Figure out that getting to some motherfucking cover is more important than shooting.
3. Learn how to shoot - most people can't. If you can't hit them, and they can't hit you, it all comes down to who has indirect fire and is good at maneuver warfare. It probably won't be you.
4. Then, when you are skilled at 1-3...build up your kit without body armor and train the fuck out of it.
5. When you feel your personal fitness is in a good spot and you have excess budget for the weight of armor, put the armor on and rock it. If you aren't engaged in mounted work from a vehicle or fixed location defense, VERY few people who know what the score is ever feel they have the fitness budget for armor.
The most realistic scenario for body armor is like those asians during the LA riots who were protecting their businesses in the hood. Most people buying this stuff are just larping though which is fine, it's not like they are hurting anyone.
Totes agree. Larpers gotta larp. People that collect Magic: The Gathereing gunna collect. People that eat KitKat bars without taking each stick off and eating it one at a time are actually the devil. People armoring up because of Pantifa... giggle snort. If Pantifa were to become a problem that you'd need body armor for, body armor would not be sufficient and you wouldn't even need guns in that situation, there'd be plenty of them on the ground.
Good post. Most people don't have the fitness budget for most things, even everyday tasks, and there is no doubt that, if you are forced to move, less fat is going to save your life before more armor.
Honestly, most people don't need it for a number of different reasons, but if you want it, there is zero reason not to buy it.
Their C&C tactics are well known.
They win because many on our side are stupid and don't conceal themselves in public. Kyle would have saved himself a shiload of problems if he had hidden his identity and, instead of going to the cops, had just disappeared.
I will bet a good amount antifa will lose a lot of its balls the moment some well disciplined patriots start killing them without mercy.
And don't forget their logistics infrastructure on the outskirts of the riots. Burn their fucking vehicles and kill them all.
Some pretty good points, this one being completely on point
I train with and do cardio in my shit a few times a week and it still kicks my ass. I don’t claim to be any kind of athlete but I work out 1.5 hours a day 5 days a week and hike in most weekend, with a pack or kit and wearing armor fucking sucks the life out of me over the miles. It’s not so much the weight as it is shedding the heat.
Still, I enjoy is. Embrace the suck and all…. If you get decent with it on you can really cover some ground with it in the truck.
Not sure WTF a larp is? Some fucking millennial internet shit?
Some pretty good points, this one being completely on point
I train with and do cardio in my shit a few times a week and it still kicks my ass. I don’t claim to be any kind of athlete but I work out 1.5 hours a day 5 days a week and hike in most weekend, with a pack or kit and wearing armor fucking sucks the life out of me over the miles. It’s not so much the weight as it is shedding the heat.
Still, I enjoy is. Embrace the suck and all…. If you get decent with it on you can really cover some ground with it in the truck.
Not sure WTF a larp is? Some fucking millennial internet shit?
Urban Dictionary: Larping
When someone is pretending to be something they’re not. Can involve lying on social media/internet or lying in real life. Often used in a derogatory sense. Derived from the original meaning of LARP, Live Action Role Play. When you say that someone is larping and you’re not talking about the...
www.urbandictionary.com
Urban Dictionary: Larping
When someone is pretending to be something they’re not. Can involve lying on social media/internet or lying in real life. Often used in a derogatory sense. Derived from the original meaning of LARP, Live Action Role Play. When you say that someone is larping and you’re not talking about the...
Yup. Some internet millennials shit. We’re fucking doomed guys….
If you work out 1.5 hours a day, you will be in good enough shape for anything, unless you work out like an absolute pussy.Some pretty good points, this one being completely on point
I train with and do cardio in my shit a few times a week and it still kicks my ass. I don’t claim to be any kind of athlete but I work out 1.5 hours a day 5 days a week and hike in most weekend, with a pack or kit and wearing armor fucking sucks the life out of me over the miles. It’s not so much the weight as it is shedding the heat.
Still, I enjoy is. Embrace the suck and all…. If you get decent with it on you can really cover some ground with it in the truck.
Not sure WTF a larp is? Some fucking millennial internet shit?
It’s a sliding scale. After 45 I started sliding down to the shallow end…
I duct tape old AT&T phonebooks to my body.
#JustAsGood
#JustAsGood
It’s a complete waste of money and you will never need it, right up to the time you do.
I'm not worried about the coming shtf scenario but I keep a level 4 plate in my backpack that I bring my laptop, lunch, and a few tools to and from work every day.
I don't expect to have an active shooter in my office but if it were to happen I would at least have one protective tool with me.
Failure to prepare is preparing to fail.
I don't expect to have an active shooter in my office but if it were to happen I would at least have one protective tool with me.
Failure to prepare is preparing to fail.
My exact experiences, also. My original Point Blank looked like h*ll, but held up great ( issued in 1978I tested 10 year old Second Change level3 soft Police issue at the range . I tested all my old approved vests as well including a couple from Point Blank . All stopped 9mm hollows , 45 , 38 . These were worn by me through nasty sweaty hot days directing traffic and having several people puke all over me.
Officially they have a designated service life. But mine held
). So did all of the others. Nice to know.
