Is body armor necessary for a civilian?

[Gohring65]

I have it because why not!
If I ever need it I have it.
People often forget about head, ear and eye protection. If you’re running and gunning and hit your head hard enough to bleed you’re fucked. If you get something in your eye, think about how debilitating that is, and how you stop whatever you’re doing to get the shit out of your eye, if you try and run away with it still in your eye, and have no helmet, that’s when you will bash your head on something. You’re done, they are going to kill you.

 

[Rerun7]

Body armor seemed expensive so I decided to go the natural route. Lots of pizza and wings.

Combined with virtually no exercise I’ve got a pretty good layer built up at this point. I’d say I’m about level IIIa.

 

[MarinePMI]

Body armor seemed expensive so I decided to go the natural route. Lots of pizza and wings.

Combined with virtually no exercise I’ve got a pretty good layer built up at this point. I’d say I’m about level IIIa.

Believe it or not, there is some truth to your proposed route with regards to pistol rounds.

LE guys will tell you, those big fat guys can soak up some bullets with little effect to them in the near term.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Body armor seemed expensive so I decided to go the natural route. Lots of pizza and wings.

Combined with virtually no exercise I’ve got a pretty good layer built up at this point. I’d say I’m about level IIIa.

I’d just run around all hopped up on PCP.

 

[HOOFER]

I’d just run around all hopped up on PCP.

Biting tires on moving cars and shit.

 

[Peahi2]

Postage stamp over your heart doesn’t help?

LOL...truth! The abdominal aorta runs down from the heart to below the plate. A bullet there and you've sprung a bad leak and will die shortly. With the catastrophic loss of blood pressure, you'd be out quick.

 

[WindstormSCR]

LOL...truth! The abdominal aorta runs down from the heart to below the plate. A bullet there and you've sprung a bad leak and will die shortly. With the catastrophic loss of blood pressure, you'd be out quick.

true, but barring a hit directly there, you're probably going to survive, while plates protect the integrity of the sealed space that is your chest cavity and allows you to breathe through differential pressure.

most of the folks who die from chest trauma die because of various conditions that stop you from breathing more than it stops your heart beating: Flail Chest, Pneumothorax / Haemothorax / Haemopneumothorax (depending on blood, air or both filling the pleural space). Cardiac Tamponade is basically the latter just allowed to progress to the point the extra 'stuff' is applying pressure to the heart (or is filling inside the pericardium and doing the same thing).
there's a great write-up about lethal traumas here:

The Deadly Dozen: The 12 Most Foreboding Chest Injuries Part I

The Deadly Dozen refers to 12 life-threatening thoracic injuries. Six are imminent life threats (The Lethal Six) and six are potential life threats (The Hidden Six).

www.visiblebody.com

The Deadly Dozen Part II: The Hidden Six

Last time, I introduced you to the first half of The Deadly Dozen, a list of 12 life-threatening thoracic trauma conditions. Today I'll cover the second half: The Hidden Six.

www.visiblebody.com

 

[TheGerman]

LOL the shit people actually think and say out loud in this thread.

Please continue.

 

[WindstormSCR]

LOL the shit people actually think and say out loud in this thread.

Please continue.

I'm actually curious on your take since you have done proper TCCC training, if you're willing to elaborate.

 

[Rerun7]

Za German sayz zee armour es caput

 

[hlee]

Za German sayz zee armour es caput

Za German also sayz zee suppressor es caput. WTF are we going to BUY??!?

 

[Jscb1b]

More ammo!

 

[Rerun7]

More ammo!

It won’t do any good if all the dudes are running around in body armor!

 

[hlee]

It won’t do any good if all the dudes are running around in body armor!

View attachment 8097371

Buy BIGGER ammo?

 

[whatsupdoc]

Die Rüstung ist kaputt, ihr Schwuchteln

 

[Jscb1b]

It won’t do any good if all the dudes are running around in body armor!

View attachment 8097371

Shoot them in the junk.

 

[stefan73]

Body armor seemed expensive so I decided to go the natural route. Lots of pizza and wings.

Combined with virtually no exercise I’ve got a pretty good layer built up at this point. I’d say I’m about level IIIa.

I saw a morbidly obese guy get plugged with a 9mm through the heart in Iraq. He obviously didn't survive.

I had a Soldier take a round to the back plate on a patrol. The plate saved his life.

 

[Tokay444]

If you're being shot at, yes.

 

[stefan73]

Buy BIGGER ammo?

 

[stefan73]

It won’t do any good if all the dudes are running around in body armor!

View attachment 8097371

cause you're using the wrong gun

 

[Rerun7]

I saw a morbidly obese guy get plugged with a 9mm through the heart in Iraq. He obviously didn't survive.

That can’t be true because just like @TheGerman, 9mm only penetrates 3 inches.

And that gets reduced to 2 inches if fired from a Glock.

Only 1911’s in 45 are effective.

 

[stefan73]

That can’t be true because just like @TheGerman, 9mm only penetrates 3 inches.

And that gets reduced to 2 inches if fired from a Glock.

Only 1911’s in 45 are effective.

9mm aka the lung blower
Glock is Austrian for Kel-Tech

 

[hlee]

9mm doesn’t blow lungs out of a body. Everyone other than Crazy Joe knows this. It’s just too fast. Through and through. But, if you’re wearing a plate when you get hit with a 9mm, it will blow the plate clean through your body. This removes the lungs in the process, and is where the myth of the 9mm lung blower was created…

 

[jpop8807]

Only 2 things damage it (other than shooting it).

Heat and being tossed around against things.

Especially level IV my last year in we were loading up an LMTV one of the guys from another squad set his against the back tailgate. The 6-7 foot fall when it opened was enough to crack on of the plates in half.

 

[jpop8807]

Believe it or not, there is some truth to your proposed route with regards to pistol rounds.

LE guys will tell you, those big fat guys can soak up some bullets with little effect to them in the near term.

Fat and muscle man. Tends to slow things down very well. Instead of this guy buying body armor he needs to make fat NFL lineman friends. When the shooting starts if he strategically places himself behind them he should be good. Especially if they are using non FMJ.

 

[jpop8807]

I saw a morbidly obese guy get plugged with a 9mm through the heart in Iraq. He obviously didn't survive.

I had a Soldier take a round to the back plate on a patrol. The plate saved his life.

Where the hell did you see a mobidly obese guy in Iraq? I saw some fatties over the bud no my 600 lb life types. Maybe like a Jonah Hill before losing weight size.

 

[pineoak]

I know we're joking about the fat as body armor, but know that fat/cholesterol/obesity/diabetes/heart conditions will kill you the same as bullets... just slower and by suicide by cupcake and steak instead of being shot.

 

[thedude824]

Ive always been baffled by the no body armor or anti-plate carrier opinions. Ive been on ALL ends of it. Wore one for 10 years, 2 shootings, 2 friends/coworkers killed b/c they weren't wearing one and have since treated more GSWs than I can count in the ER. I leave my soft one in my vehicle with a "oh crap" bag containing rifle, mags, and extra pistol mags. My plate carrier is 10 feet from my bed, next to my gun belt, pants, combat shirt, shoes, and socks. My SCAR 17 SBR w/suppressor is next to the bed along with ear pro. After what we've seen in the last 2 years I'm truly surprised to see any contradictory opinions, but thats certainly your choice. Ive seen what the Government has become and Ive seen what compliance gets you. My doors are all solid hardwood, frames are all steel and secured to concrete block by massive bolts. I dont remember the name of the system, but despite being an experienced breacher, 240lbs with a 31" waist, and using a battering ram I was completely exhausted before I got the door down enough to enter during the demo. The entire system was a couple hundred bucks. It was $2500 to have all my windows done with 3m security film. Short of explosives, I have enough time to get dressed, heat up some food, and set up my big guns before anyone gets in. It just isn't that expensive for the piece of mind. My home is also solid concrete block. Having been the "superior force" I feel pretty good about my chances. Then again, I dont trust the protection of myself of those I care about to people I dont know that have no obligation to protect anyone. They did a great job at Parkland and Uvalde. The whole legal system is irreparably corrupted. I dont let that fact skew my moral compass.

 

[charbroiled]

Ive always been baffled by the no body armor or anti-plate carrier opinions.

Just thinking out loud here, but would throwing some soft armor in the briefcase, backpack or laptop bag help someone exit an active-shooter situation at work or school more safely? The stuff I read after an incident shows most folks are 100% defenseless.

 

[pineoak]

Personal opinion only here. If you're fighting from home and have time to gear up, obviously it's better to have it and use it IF you've trained with it and know the quirks of shooting/moving/fighting with armor on. Same applies to all battle rattle.

As far as being at work/outside of a location where a PC/rig setup are available, I would think having more mags on your person are of greater utility than any kind of armor. Why?

Armor is dependent upon the enemy hitting you accurately where you are armored.

More ammo/mags allow for suppression of the enemy and have greater utility in keeping the enemy down. Making them come at you through a wall of bullets sounds much better than hoping they hit you where you are covered if you get hit.

Soft armor doesn't do well in high heat (trunk of car in AZ summer); plates don't take well to banging around in a vehicle but LE does it daily (carrier in bin with foam between plates might work) and you will have to carry them/have them with you. 2 extra mags is the easy button.

Although running away is often a the best option, you may decide that engaging is the better choice in the situation you're in that day (your loved ones under fire, dying well, the shooter is a dick and you decide shooting the asshole is the best way to go, etc.).

Extra ammo is helpful if engaging from a distance. Up close and personal you likely will never reload.

And if you're fat and out of shape, skip the plates/plate carrier and go with a chest rig.

Nothing sadder than watching a fatty run drills on a small range and gassing out, chest heaving up and down out of breath from moving 20 feet and shooting, having to get his fat ass up from prone to standing in 15.62 seconds. Seriously thinking this guy's going to need CPR soon if we don't stop him from continuing.

IMO, bullets aren't going to kill him. His diet and lifestyle will do the job just fine.

Please don't cancel me for fat shaming. Maybe you had to be there, but it was sad, pathetic, and depressing to watch. He was probably just under 400 at 6' and the likely XL PC looked like a toddler size on him. I sincerely hope he's alive and healthier today.

 

[WindstormSCR]

Just thinking out loud here, but would throwing some soft armor in the briefcase, backpack or laptop bag help someone exit an active-shooter situation at work or school more safely? The stuff I read after an incident shows most folks are 100% defenseless.

theres a few companies that make hard armor inserts for backpacks, briefcases and the like. I keep one in my daily use backpack since I’m lugging around a company laptop, inspection tools, and paperwork anyway, gives me some peace of mind that in a worst case I can simply dump the crap out, put it on backwards and at least have frontal coverage along with my carry.

 

[charbroiled]

As far as being at work/outside of a location where a PC/rig setup are available, I would think having more mags on your person are of greater utility than any kind of armor.

Some places of employment are a no-go for carrying. Just thinking an armored briefcase might help get a body the heck outta Dodge...

 

[hkguns]

I roll 100% of the time with my LIV ceramic plates and carrier with magazines in my Truck. Is it necessary? Who the hell knows, but I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

OP sounds like a Fed fishing expedition. I wonder if the unelected B's will propose a Body Armor ban next?

 

[Awag1000]

I roll 100% of the time with my LIV ceramic plates and carrier with magazines in my Truck. Is it necessary? Who the hell knows, but I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

OP sounds like a Fed fishing expedition. I wonder if the unelected B's will propose a Body Armor ban next?

If you ask questions, there's always an ulterior motive and you automatically become a FED. Keep that in mind folks.

 

[hkguns]

If you ask questions, there's always an ulterior motive and you automatically become a FED. Keep that in mind folks.

You're a fucking comedian.

 

[WindstormSCR]

honestly body armor shouldn't even be a conversation. its sole purpose is preserving life. do we have any similar conversation about any other product solely created for the purposes of preserving life?

it's like saying "heart attack deaths are on the rise, ban AEDs"

 

[stefan73]

theres a few companies that make hard armor inserts for backpacks, briefcases and the like. I keep one in my daily use backpack since I’m lugging around a company laptop, inspection tools, and paperwork anyway, gives me some peace of mind that in a worst case I can simply dump the crap out, put it on backwards and at least have frontal coverage along with my carry.

I've seen that. They make both soft and hard armor for children's backpacks and such.

 

[roostercogburn98]

I've got IV armor............JUST IN CASE.

Wear it and work out in it every couple of weeks while shooting, just to make sure all is well and I know its quirks while I use it.

I sleep in mine now. Never know when shits gonna pop off.

 

[stefan73]

I have to say, what harm does it cause having body armor? If you sleep better at night, cool. If it provides a little more comfort, cool. If you pack some armor in your kids backpack and it makes your day easier at work, cool.

I think for some people body armor is like my old Army woobie, keeps me warm and comfortable in shitty situations. There is probably a .00001% chance that you will ever need it but as I said if it offers that little extra comfort and security in your life it is probably worth it.

That is all.

 

[pineoak]

The only caveat I would add, is that plates are not something you can just throw on six years later with no training

Soft armor, you can get away with minimal practice

Plates, our whole different story, especially regards to shouldering Rifle

 

[stefan73]

The only caveat I would add, is that plates are not something you can just throw on six years later with no training

Soft armor, you can get away with minimal practice

Plates, our whole different story, especially regards to shouldering Rifle

I might argue that soft armor bit in high heat environments. A lack of conditioning and hot and humid environments will also kill you.

 

[Fig]

 

[thedude824]

Just thinking out loud here, but would throwing some soft armor in the briefcase, backpack or laptop bag help someone exit an active-shooter situation at work or school more safely? The stuff I read after an incident shows most folks are 100% defenseless.

Did I not mention this LOL? Personally I carry a Vertx bag with 2 ballistic panels to work and pretty much everywhere else. Carried a similiar one through med school. Its not going to help if someone gets a clean shot with an AR, but it will stop pretty much any pistol round. I also have a pistol and extra mag in the hidden front compartment of the bag. Unless I'm the first person the liberal targets and they have alot of training I feel pretty confident about my chances. My buddy bought his 12 year old daughter a similiar bag with a single panel. A little less than $300 all in and it will greatly increase your or your loved ones odds.

 

[strikeeagle1]

Unless I'm the first person the liberal targets and they have alot of training I feel pretty confident about my chances

Tragically, Officer still in ICU with head injury, 5 deceased bank employees and 8 others injured. 14 total from reporting.
152 rounds this "girl" fired off. Apparently and thankfully, no training to aim.

 

[Jscb1b]

View attachment 8119033
Tragically, Officer still in ICU with head injury, 5 deceased bank employees and 8 others injured. 14 total from reporting.
152 rounds this "girl" fired off. Apparently and thankfully, no training to aim.

Gee, maybe if someone had a gun to shoot it's ass things would be different.

 

[WindstormSCR]

I'd like to add that concealed armor is not just good for bullets. helps when parts decide they want to go flying out of a machine due to a spindle crash as you're walking by on the way into the office

 

[candyx]

You should wear it under your pajamas incase the storm troopers come in with a no knock warrant by mistake.

 

[Pbgt]

You should wear it under your pajamas incase the storm troopers come in with a no knock warrant by mistake.

probably get one for the doggo too....

 

[MCSO1357]

Shoot them in the junk.

This terrifies me due to the likelihood, personally speaking.

 

[RanchhandTCR]

I have lvl 4 plates in a carrier set up for something that will likely never happen and I completely understand ill probably be dropped like a rag doll in the first minute of conflict.. How ever....your gonna have to shoot me somewhere else besides the chest and back or with something that is spicy... is it necessary? That entirely up to you in how much you want to be prepared for something that is possibly unlikely.. some people keep 5 years or food and other supplies.. you could argue that your faster with just a chest rig.. all in the eye of the beholder. If you ask me... not everyone needs plate... it'll make shit simpler.