Is it worth it to upgrade to a ZCO or TT

[winxp_man]

OP, question you need to ask yourself is what limitations do your current scopes have? Is it weight, size, reticle? If you are happy with all those things then what do you stand to gain from the ZCO or TT. I will say this, it sounds like you may have older Schmidt scopes with the older turrets, if that matters to you (turret feel and tactile feedback) then I'd say ZCO will be a step up and TT definitely a step up. That being said, I feel the new Schmidt DT II+ turrets are better than ZCO and I like the locking mechanism better as well as you can leave it on or off and the MTC is the best I've felt from Schmidt. TT has the best toolless zero/stop in the business, not sure if that matters but worth mentioning.

If you're looking for an upgrade to image quality, yes ZCO is better than Schmidt and yes TT is better than ZCO but we are talking fractions at this stage of the game and really it comes down to other factors like reticle, ergonomics and mechanics. All three scopes are going to be very forgiving in DOF, parallax and eyebox. If you own the PM II 5-25 then another factor is tunneling at low magnification, for this reason many consider the 5-25 to really be more like a 7-25 and FOV numbers reflect that. If FOV is going to be important to you, especially at the low end of magnification, the TT will be king and the ZCO will follow.

If you prefer a "lighter" scope then I think you can't beat the TT315M and to be honest I think the turrets are even "better" than on their 5-25, most likely due to the spacing at 6mrad per revolution. Another scope in the lighter weight category is the March 4.5-28x52, March really flies below the radar and has struggled some with their 8x erector designs, but the 4.5-28 (with 6.2x erector) solves a lot of those issues and is impressive optically and mechanically. If weight isn't so much a concern but "shorter" is, there is no better ultra short out there (optically) than the ZCO 4-20.

For me, at this stage it comes down to reticle, this is the thing you have to look at every time you look through the scope and I am very particular about reticle.

If you haven't seen ILya's video on high end tactical 56mm scopes you may want to check it out:

Agreed its fractions difference when it comes to high end scopes. And that reticle design is a bigger thing than trying to figure out which glass will be better. Also how many of use truly use the scopes in the high end ranges to the fullest per say? I would say not many. I have mid grade scopes, some high end and then the top tear S&B and ZCO. Unless I'm shooting past 1000-1500 yards the mid grade scopes can surprise you for sure. If you want a tank for a scope tho S&B, ZCO, TT are top notch with little difference optic quality wise. Mechanically as you stated can have differences because of preference.

 

[pineoak]

I'm not saying the Razor is on par with the ZCO, but I can pick up the Razor for under $2k, so it's really tempting

Apparently everyone can get the razor g3 for around $2k except me

I feel like the homeless guy who missed out on the soup line today

 

[CSTactical]

Apparently everyone can get the razor g3 for around $2k except me

I feel like the homeless guy who missed out on the soup line today

That's much less than dealer's cost, so don't feel bad...

 

[HenryTheAce]

Apparently everyone can get the razor g3 for around $2k except me

I feel like the homeless guy who missed out on the soup line today

Yeah I wouldn’t mind scooping one up for $2k!

 

[Islas82]

The G3 for 2k-2500k would be one hell of a deal, especially if the turrets are addressed.

 

[pineoak]

Another hide member pointed out to me that vortex had a 50% off deal for law-enforcement and military

Funny thing is, I had sent that exact email to a friend

 

[HenryTheAce]

Is this where we post the scope porn now after seeing @Glassaholic ‘s glass

OP do it!!!

 

[MOUNTIC]

Is this where we post the scope porn now after seeing @Glassaholic ‘s glass

OP do it!!!

View attachment 7879803View attachment 7879804

Now that's the lineup there! Hard to beat that for sure. Glad I could help out with some of it!

Anyone looking for one of those illusive Tan TT525P's or other TTs give me a shout. I have one Tan left!

 

[HenryTheAce]

Now that's the lineup there! Hard to beat that for sure. Glad I could help out with some of it!

Anyone looking for one of those illusive Tan TT525P's or other TTs give me a shout. I have one Tan left!

Thank you sir!! Ya helped out with a lot of it!!

 

[TheOE800]

View attachment 7879803View attachment 7879804

Oh my this makes me feel poor.

 

[HenryTheAce]

Oh my this makes me feel poor.

Sometimes I wish I never looked through a alpha tier scope. All the money I could’ve saved

 

[siscoe308]

IMHO, S&B has priced themselves out of the US market.

I love my S&B’s (5-25, 3-20 & 5-20) but if I was buying a new scope. It wouldn’t be a Smitty. I was super excited for the new 6-36x but for 5k+? Nawh, that ain’t it.

I’ve looked through 3 TT’s in my life. The first was meh….and second was a new 5-25 owned by @Krob95. And that scope is head & shoulders noticeably brighter and sharper than my S&B 5-25.

So much so that I bought a TT 3-15m for a hunting gun that I’m building. The 3-15m is very good but I’m still haunted by the clarity of the TT 5-25x.

My next scope will be a ZCO high power. They are massive but the eye box advantage coupled with the S&B price hikes makes it a no brainer…to me anyway.

 

[HenryTheAce]

100%! Buying new, S&B has priced themselves out of the market completely imo.

 

[TheOE800]

Sometimes I wish I never looked through a alpha tier scope. All the money I could’ve saved

Oh me too, but I’ve only got three TTs to show for it.

 

[pineoak]

My next scope will be a ZCO high power. They are massive but the eye box advantage coupled with the S&B price hikes makes it a no brainer…to me anyway.

Is the eye box advantage a brand thing or a specific model thing?

 

[siscoe308]

Is the eye box advantage a brand thing or a specific model thing?

It’s a giant tube thing, I’m guessing.

 

[Feniks Technologies]

It’s a giant tube thing, I’m guessing.

It’s the larger diopter ZCO uses on all their optics.

 

[pineoak]

It’s the larger diopter ZCO uses on all their optics.

If it doesn't require the larger scope tube body... every company should be using a larger diopter. Ease of getting behind a scope is easily noticeable by anyone about on par with IQ

 

[Feniks Technologies]

If it doesn't require the larger scope tube body... every company should be using a larger diopter. Ease of getting behind a scope is easily noticeable by anyone about on par with IQ

I’m sure there’s a bit more to it as far as lenses and such. But that’s the one of the big selling points of Zco. Along with how big the “picture” is.

 

[Glassaholic]

Is this where we post the scope porn now after seeing @Glassaholic ‘s glass

OP do it!!!

View attachment 7879803View attachment 7879804

Where’s the drool emoji wait I found itlooks more like I failed to spit far enough though .

What a lineup! I am wrapping up a big review of some top glass and I threw in an underdog that I think many will be surprised to see how well it did Because I certainly was surprised.

 

[HenryTheAce]

Where’s the drool emoji wait I found itlooks more like I failed to spit far enough though .

What a lineup! I am wrapping up a big review of some top glass and I threw in an underdog that I think many will be surprised to see how well it did Because I certainly was surprised.

Looking forward to reading it!

 

[CSTactical]

Where’s the drool emoji wait I found itlooks more like I failed to spit far enough though .

What a lineup! I am wrapping up a big review of some top glass and I threw in an underdog that I think many will be surprised to see how well it did Because I certainly was surprised.

If it's a QF than we are going to carry them

 

[Glassaholic]

If it's a QF than we are going to carry them

Dang it Richard, always spoiling the fun . Did you see ILya’s picture of the Quigley-Ford booth at the NRA convention, no one was there, I thought that was rather fitting

 

[TheOE800]

Where’s the drool emoji wait I found itlooks more like I failed to spit far enough though .

What a lineup! I am wrapping up a big review of some top glass and I threw in an underdog that I think many will be surprised to see how well it did Because I certainly was surprised.

Selling the SB 3-27, bumping the March 3-24 thread…I’m putting 2+2 together here!

 

[Glassaholic]

Selling the SB 3-27, bumping the March 3-24 thread…I’m putting 2+2 together here!

I'm also selling the March 3-24, actually I'm selling a boatload of stuff, mostly to help out kids financially (Bidenflation is killing them) but trying to pick up a few things along the way, so needing to re-think a lot of my supply and consider the future...

 

[TheOE800]

I'm also selling the March 3-24, actually I'm selling a boatload of stuff, mostly to help out kids financially (Bidenflation is killing them) but trying to pick up a few things along the way, so needing to re-think a lot of my supply and consider the future...

$6/gal of gas and groceries 40% more expensive, no big deal.

 

[clonebuilder]

Just don't look through a TT or ZCO. You will not be happy with your S&B anymore.

Hate to revive this thread, but I've looked through a ZCO527 and 420. Outside of the wider FOV, glass wasn't that much different than my PMII 5-25.

 

[Islas82]

Hate to revive this thread, but I've looked through a ZCO527 and 420. Outside of the wider FOV, glass wasn't that much different than my PMII 5-25.

Oh boy what have you done….

 

[clonebuilder]

Oh boy what have you done….

I'll get hate but I said what I said.
I will say though, I bet the ZCO420 is unreal behind a PVS24LR, same as the 3-20 ultrashort.

 

[Islas82]

I'll get hate but I said what I said.
I will say though, I bet the ZCO420 is unreal behind a PVS24LR, same as the 3-20 ultrashort.

I owned a 527, 420 and a TT 5-25 have never owned or used a S&B mostly because their reticles don’t really impress me but I do like their turret options.

 

[clonebuilder]

I owned a 527, 420 and a TT 5-25 have never owned or used a S&B mostly because their reticles don’t really impress me but I do like their turret options.

It really is personal preference tbh. I hate tree reticles and prefer H2CMR and MSR2 so Schmidt was the ticket. And the GRI2D is a very tolerable tree reticle.

 

[CSTactical]

Hate to revive this thread, but I've looked through a ZCO527 and 420. Outside of the wider FOV, glass wasn't that much different than my PMII 5-25.

Are you going to go through every old thread that’s ZCO and S&B related and bump them claiming there’s no difference in IQ between the samples you looked through?

How many S&B’s do you have for sale?

 

[clonebuilder]

Are you going to go through every old thread that’s ZCO and S&B related and bump them claiming there’s no difference in IQ between the samples you looked through?

How many S&B’s do you have for sale?

zero


To be fair i said that it wasnt much different and the ZCO had the wide FOV advantage.

 

[JakeM]

Are you going to go through every old thread that’s ZCO and S&B related and bump them claiming there’s no difference in IQ between the samples you looked through?

How many S&B’s do you have for sale?

I think he is just figuring out that copy pasting everything that the PRS shooters do isn't the only/best way to do things.
The comp shooter worship is a step backwards for most shooters depending on the concept.

 

[CSTactical]

zero


To be fair i said that it wasnt much different and the ZCO had the wide FOV advantage.

I’m just wondering your motivation of bumping threads from last Summer repeating yourself from another thread from today.

 

[Bigrederic]

So... I have a handful of PMIIs with H59s that I love, I also have a ZCO 5x27 MPCT2 and a TT 5-25 H59, I even have a 5-25 ATACR right now.

That being said, I love them all... the ZCO is the best deal in this group in my opinion... has the best resale based on initial investment. The TT has the best turrets and field of view of all of them...The PMII is what pushed the development pf these other optics, without it these others would not of had a benchmark to pass.

You can't go wrong with any of them, they all are rock solid amazing optics.

 

[Moose]

The ZC and TT scopes will spoil the shit out of you.I have never owned a S&B scope so I can not give an opinion on them.At the price range these scopes are going for it comes down to which one works best for you.

 

[CSTactical]

I think he is just figuring out that copy pasting everything that the PRS shooters do isn't the only/best way to do things.
The comp shooter worship is a step backwards for most shooters depending on the concept.

Seeing these posts all randomly bumping old threads I first thought is the the Felipe guy hyping up S&B? Then I thought maybe he's trying to boost his post count to get into the PX (Which doesn't work anymore regardless). But the above mentioned scopes are not really just geared primarily towards competition.

 

[clonebuilder]

Seeing these posts all randomly bumping old threads I first thought is the the Felipe guy hyping up S&B? Then I thought maybe he's trying to boost his post count to get into the PX (Which doesn't work anymore regardless). But the above mentioned scopes are not really just geared primarily towards competition.

I've been away for a bit and was catching up on posts and reviews. I gave my two cents and it was a pretty fair assessment. (see: "i bet the ZCO420 would be insane behind a PVS24LR with that wide FOV). Am I going around telling people that ZCO is trash or overpriced? no.
I couldn't care less about the PX because i dont sell guns or optics.

I wouldn't bother buying S&B at current prices but I guess i'll have to if people who sell stuff for a living are going to accuse me of being a shill for no reason other than an old(er) thread being revived (how does this affect you in any way?)

 

[CSTactical]

I've been away for a bit and was catching up on posts and reviews. I gave my two cents and it was a pretty fair assessment. (see: "i bet the ZCO420 would be insane behind a PVS24LR with that wide FOV). Am I going around telling people that ZCO is trash or overpriced? no.
I couldn't care less about the PX because i dont sell guns or optics.

I wouldn't bother buying S&B at current prices but I guess i'll have to if people who sell stuff for a living are going to accuse me of being a shill for no reason other than an old(er) thread being revived (how does this affect you in any way?)

I just said what I thought as I've seen that happen many times over the years, you gave your opinion and I gave mine
Richard@CST

 

[st1650]

Personally, for the price difference between a ZCO and one of the many high quality Japanese OEM scope I'd pocket the cash and buy some more ammo, components, barrels and save up for a thermal instead.

 

[winxp_man]

The ZC and TT scopes will spoil the shit out of you.I have never owned a S&B scope so I can not give an opinion on them.At the price range these scopes are going for it comes down to which one works best for you.

To be honest, I kinda like the turrets on my S&B over ZCO, but over all the ZCO takes the second place. My TT is over them both. What kills it for me on the S&B is the available turret elevation, and the tunneling you see for at low mag. That should not even have been a think in the S&B. But it is.

 

[clonebuilder]

To be honest, I kinda like the turrets on my S&B over ZCO, but over all the ZCO takes the second place. My TT is over them both.

this is how I feel also. I think S&B wins on turrets and reticles (wide range of reticles + swap options which TT does not offer) but the other two win on advancements in tech and overall glass. But its not a night and day victory by any means for TT over ZCO/S&B or ZCO over the other two.

 

[winxp_man]

Personally, for the price difference between a ZCO and one of the many high quality Japanese OEM scope I'd pocket the cash and buy some more ammo, components, barrels and save up for a thermal instead.

For me personally, I do own about 5-6 Jap models, I will take what ZCO has to offer over any of the the Jap scopes. This is just me. Mirage is what tells the big boy scopes apart from the rest. And let’s be real you can get the ZCO now for around 3200-3000k in the PDX section.

 

[winxp_man]

this is how I feel also. I think S&B wins on turrets and reticles (wide range of reticles + swap options which TT does not offer) but the other two win on advancements in tech and overall glass. But it’s not a night and day victory by any means for TT over ZCO/S&B or ZCO over the other two.

I edited the post with some quirks I have with the S&B. Didn’t want to retype them here. But still love the one I have. Especially the reticle!

 

[Stinger78]

I've got a TT 5-25. Is it amazing? Yeah, glass, turrets, build, all first class. Is it worth what I paid for it? IMO, no. I'm sure ZCO is amazing also and I've shot with some S&B's. They were great scopes as well. That being said the cost of these Tier 1 optics which keeps going up has gotten stupid and none of them are worth the money in my opinion. The $2K class of optics have come a long ways these days. And no I'm not one of the poors I'm fortunate enough to be able to buy what I want.

 

[Nik H]

this is how I feel also. I think S&B wins on turrets and reticles (wide range of reticles + swap options which TT does not offer) but the other two win on advancements in tech and overall glass. But its not a night and day victory by any means for TT over ZCO/S&B or ZCO over the other two.

I have DT turrets on my S&Bs...not sure what you have on yours. The ZCO turrets are head and shoulders above the DT turrets in terms of positive feel and legibility. I have heard the new S&B turrets are better but have not tried them

 

[clonebuilder]

I have DT turrets on my S&Bs...not sure what you have on yours. The ZCO turrets are head and shoulders above the DT turrets in terms of positive feel and legibility. I have heard the new S&B turrets are better but have not tried them

DTII+ on mine.

 

[winxp_man]

I have DT turrets on my S&Bs...not sure what you have on yours. The ZCO turrets are head and shoulders above the DT turrets in terms of positive feel and legibility. I have heard the new S&B turrets are better but have not tried them

DT on mine. Maybe because it’s newer the turrets just have a better feel? My statement above is also from others I have let dial the turrets on multiple scopes and pic what feels better.

 

[Nik H]

DTII+ on mine.

I hear those are much improved over the original