Is something going on in Ukraine?

[Darayavaus]

we have a small but dedicated Neocon contingent on this forum - some of whom don't even realize they are neocons, but think they are fighting for truth, justice and the American way or something.

meanwhile despite the peaceful Trump years, both Obama and now Biden have actively done the bidding of their NWO masters to provoke Russia into a war. the people who are behind this push for war just pulled off massive election fraud, are trying to ban civilian firearms in the US, are taxing you to death, and have eliminated the voice of anyone who is not a woke puppet for their regime. they are Putin x10. but these posters are bluepilled into going along with things, like most of the MSM watching population.

sadly, so many poor ignorant people don't understand the political dynamics of the last 30 years.

 

[Darayavaus]

I have many Ukrainian friends. They hate their corrupt government as much as hide members hate Biden and the phony left.
Just because the UKR is corrupt does not mean that the people do not deserve our help.

that is good.

but I think the original Russian intention was to kick out the leadership and leave the people alone.

that's why the leadership is using civilians as shields and arming them so they get shot defending the regime, and then their relatives get pissed and hate Russia.


the soviets did the same thing during WW2. communist partisans either caused neutral civilians to get killed or killed them themselves until everyone hated the germans. it's a well established practice over there.

 

[jmp1]

I have many Ukrainian friends. They hate their corrupt government as much as hide members hate Biden and the phony left.
Just because the UKR is corrupt does not mean that the people do not deserve our help.

I really don't believe that "we" are helping the people of Ukraine. We're helping their masters

 

[BCP]

I really don't believe that "we" are helping the people of Ukraine. We're helping their masters

Yeap same as the Russians "helping" the Russian Ukrainians. I'm sure all those Russian conscripts burning alive in tanks and APCs for 42$ a month salary love it as well. It's like those Wild West movies where the Railroad and Mining companies would be fighting over some small town.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

The way I see it is Russia has a lot more to offer the world. Energy, Food mineral resources. We do not always agree on actions and there has been a lot of bad blood. But Russia has a shit ton more to offer the world than Democrats version of regime change in Ukraine.

The longer this is dragged out by half ass support of Ukraine the more people that suffer.

Either shit or get off the pot

 

[BCP]

Why is it as soon as the Russians show up and actually start fighting the Nato forces back off.

Yeah not really. Syria is still happening. US troops are still there.

Both sides use indirect means because both sides are worried about the other's nukes.

Anyways US and Russian forces have come up against one another a few times, recently in Syria when they sent some regular soldiers and a bunch of mercenaries to try and take out a US position. Didn't go very well for them.

I don't think even at the height of the Cold War the Russian conventional forces would've been able to last more than a couple months against NATO. Probably turn into a 1940s meatgrinder near Moscow sort of thing.

Just IMHO but the whole Cold War and Scary Russians was nothing more than an excuse for massive military spending.

 

[BCP]

The way I see it is Russia has a lot more to offer the world. Energy, Food mineral resources. We do not always agree on actions and there has been a lot of bad blood. But Russia has a shit ton more to offer the world than Democrats version of regime change in Ukraine.

The longer this is dragged out by half ass support of Ukraine the more people that suffer.

Either shit or get off the pot

This might sound kind of shocking but the Ukrainian People get a say in it too and apparently they want to fight.

As for "Regime Change" I would rather see it in DC than Ukraine.

 

[Darayavaus]

I really don't believe that "we" are helping the people of Ukraine. We're helping their masters

this video was made when Bush was president. Every single thing that we are discussing now was known to us back then. Including the deliberate, aggressive advance of NATO. There are no surprises, our political leadership caused this to happen. everything that led up to the invasion of Ukraine was done to back Russia into a corner and force them to go to war.

the first 3 or 4 minutes of this video are very relevant and interesting.





If you ever watched Last of the Mohicans, there was a memorable line which showed the evil overbearing intent of the British Empire back then, and it fully applies to us now. "British policy is 'Make the world England' "

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

His “big powerful Militar” is keeping all of Nato from actually full scale stepping up in Ukraine.

Remember Poland and Germany tossing the potential MiG delivery hot potato, because they don’t want to challenge it. Or when Russia stepped in in Syria and kept assad in power who was all but collapsed. Seems anytime the Russian military starts to get involved the US startes using indirect forms of warfare or stops its advance.

NATO has no problems using its power against Afghanistan, using B1 bombers to drop laser guided bombs on mud huts and caves.

Sacking Libya.

Invading Iraq.

Kosovo...

Why is it as soon as the Russians show up and actually start fighting the Nato forces back off.

Actually his Big Powerful Military looks like a bunch of rag tag newbies. The only thing stopping NATO from stopping Putin dead is the overt threat of using nukes and escalating this to "consequences you have never seen" if anyone intervenes. Russia got nothing outside of the Nuke Threat. Not impressed so far.

VooDoo

 

[GreenGO Juan]

Actually his Big Powerful Military looks like a bunch of rag tag newbies. The only thing stopping NATO from stopping Putin dead is the overt threat of using nukes and escalating this to "consequences you have never seen" if anyone intervenes. Russia got nothing outside of the Nuke Threat. Not impressed so far.

VooDoo

So then he appears to have the west in check.

 

[Darayavaus]

His “big powerful Militar” is keeping all of Nato from actually full scale stepping up in Ukraine.

Remember Poland and Germany tossing the potential MiG delivery hot potato, because they don’t want to challenge it. Or when Russia stepped in in Syria and kept assad in power who was all but collapsed. Seems anytime the Russian military starts to get involved the US startes using indirect forms of warfare or stops its advance.

NATO has no problems using its power against Afghanistan, using B1 bombers to drop laser guided bombs on mud huts and caves.

Sacking Libya.

Invading Iraq.

Kosovo...

Why is it as soon as the Russians show up and actually start fighting the Nato forces back off.

our government has outspent Russia by uncountable billions of dollars since the fall of the USSR.

they simply don't have money to spend, while we have unlimited resources for the military industrial complex.

while our vets are unemployed and starving and without adequate medical care for injuries they sustained pushing our leadership's totalitarian democrat ideals, people like our illegitimate VP tells vets to 'go get a job'. because 'there's no money for them'.

while we give untraceable billions of dollars to Ukraine and their politicians live in golden houses (literally) your car blows a tire on your way to work because the unrepaired roads here are so bad that they look like they were hit by artillery fire.

we have spent vast sums of money - so much that nobody even knows the amounts in question - to develop countermeasures that defeat anything the Russians have, or could dream up. While the Russian military is a relic of the soviet Red Army with taped-on upgrades for the best units, our military is 2 generations ahead of them as our baseline. And we are giving that vast technology, paid for with billions of your dollars, to Ukraine to advance the NWO and remove Russia as the last obstacle.

Russia does not stand a chance in the long run.

So remember, as you work for free as a slave until the end of May to pay your yearly taxes, they need your money to pay for this stuff more than you need your money to pay for food and a mortgage. So try to avoid the unlicensed illegal drivers from Mexico, the potholes and collapsing bridges on the way to work, give your local disabled vet a dollar as he stands at the intersection begging for money, and pay your taxes for Ukraine's territorial integrity and the Biden family's kickback. Remember, Zelensky deserves your money more than you do, and the MIC needs your money to stay at least 3 generations ahead of the opposition.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

This might sound kind of shocking but the Ukrainian People get a say in it too and apparently they want to fight.

As for "Regime Change" I would rather see it in DC than Ukraine.

And if they weren’t getting free hand outs they would have been defeated already.

Ukraine aint paying for this shit. We a literally throwing funds in the meat grinder.

If they want to fight sure. But whats our gain for support. I don’t think it outweighs the negative.

This war is a failure of leader ship!

War is the worst forum of human interaction- some guy... art of war maybe.

 

[theLBC]

I have many Ukrainian friends. They hate their corrupt government as much as hide members hate Biden and the phony left.
Just because the UKR is corrupt does not mean that the people do not deserve our help.

yeah, but is giving them weapons to escalate and prolong conflict "helping" them, or just getting more of them killed.
do you think ukraine can beat russia without our intervention?

 

[BCP]

And if they weren’t getting free hand outs they would have been defeated already.

Russians too, both sides have been politically and militarily involved there for many years.

Like I said earlier it’s like those western movies with the mining company on one side and the railroad company on the other except no gary cooper or john wayne to save the townsfolk.

 

[lariat]

Nope.

"Remember the Alamo". Something similar will occur. Statues will be raised. Zelensky will be remembered as a defeated hero; this prevents anyone except him from losing more face than necessary.

 

[BCP]

Nope.

"Remember the Alamo". Something similar will occur. Statues will be raised. Zelensky will be remembered as a defeated hero; this prevents anyone except him from losing more face than necessary.

Doubt it. I think they will have a truce that gives Russia a narrow path to Crimea.

 

[RGStory]

And if they weren’t getting free hand outs they would have been defeated already.

Seriously?

The Russians had a good 72-96 hours to make shit happen before their initial assaults stalled. After that logistical debacle, the world saw that the Ukrainians stood a chance and started to mobilize support.

This is why the Russians are launching their Donbas operation prematurely. They need a decisive win before that support starts to show up in significant enough number and quality of equipment to impact the outcome.

 

[RGStory]

do you think ukraine can beat russia without our intervention?

If the world turned a blind eye and did nothing at all to include no sanctions? Then no, probably not.

Just without weapons or material support? IDK. War is marginally controlled chaos. You do the best you can and leave the predictions to God.

 

[Sako man]

we have a small but dedicated Neocon contingent on this forum - some of whom don't even realize they are neocons, but think they are fighting for truth, justice and the American way or something.

meanwhile despite the peaceful Trump years, both Obama and now Biden have actively done the bidding of their NWO masters to provoke Russia into a war. the people who are behind this push for war just pulled off massive election fraud, are trying to ban civilian firearms in the US, are taxing you to death, and have eliminated the voice of anyone who is not a woke puppet for their regime. they are Putin x10. but these posters are bluepilled into going along with things, like most of the MSM watching population.

sadly, so many poor ignorant people don't understand the political dynamics of the last 30 years.

There are individuals who will pronounce you, or anyone going against the narrative a Putin apologist, Qanon, or conspiracy theorist. And if someone isn't quick to denounce Putin, then they must have a poster of him in their closet right! Dreams of moon lit walks on the beach, candle light dinners, sweet whispers... "ja'Tiem mon a mi." Ok, yes that's french but you get the picture. You're not only a Putin apologist, you have a boner for the prick.

Personally, I see anyone who's quick to judge and unwilling to look at things from a different perspective, or is just blatantly brainwashed by Fox, CNN, Reuters, or any MSM for that matter as part of the problem. Gee, 90+ of all media in America couldn't be owned by just five companies, what could go wrong?

Those "Normie" individuals low information diet, and willing ignorance is the issue, and the big reason they don't act, but just rather sit there and blather. If they really knew, then maybe they might just be a little more inclined to write their representatives, donate to a cause, boycott a retailer, or be active in some way, shape, or form.

Because Putin bad!
Russia Bad!
Anything they don't agree with... Bad!

Please wake the fuck up!

 

[mgrs]

Pretty much.

Also this WW3 is off to a very slow start.

This. The number of [intentional or not] shills on this forum is surprising. I think the objective discussion of the conflict was about 20 pages ago.

 

[Darayavaus]

There are individuals who will pronounce you, or anyone going against the narrative a Putin apologist, Qanon, or conspiracy theorist. And if someone isn't quick to denounce Putin, then they must have a poster of him in their closet right! Dreams of moon lit walks on the beach, candle light dinners, sweet whispers... "ja'Tiem mon a mi." Ok, yes that's french but you get the picture. You're not only a Putin apologist, you have a boner for the prick.

Personally, I see anyone who's quick to judge and unwilling to look at things from a different perspective, or is just blatantly brainwashed by Fox, CNN, Reuters, or any MSM for that matter as part of the problem. Gee, 90+ of all media in America couldn't be owned by just five companies, what could go wrong?

Those "Normie" individuals low information diet, and willing ignorance is the issue, and the big reason they don't act, but just rather sit there and blather. If they really knew, then maybe they might just be a little more inclined to write their representatives, donate to a cause, boycott a retailer, or be active in some way, shape, or form.

Because Putin bad!
Russia Bad!
Anything they don't agree with... Bad!

Please wake the fuck up!

yep, spot on.

 

[Sako man]

This. The number of [intentional or not] shills on this forum is surprising. I think the objective discussion of the conflict was about 20 pages ago.

Shills because we don't agree with the common narrative? Or we don't agree with intervening in Ukraine? Or shills because we should really be pro Ukraine and ignoring all the other shit that's going on. You are gonna get hyperbole, and bull shit on both ends, but don't be so short sighted my friend.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

U.S. has "significant" levels of 155mm artillery ammo to provide to Ukraine and is not concerned about Pentagon stockpiles: senior U.S. defense official

 

[steve podleski]

yeah, but is giving them weapons to escalate and prolong conflict "helping" them, or just getting more of them killed.
do you think ukraine can beat russia without our intervention?

wow, this is exactly the wording used by the left when we supplied the insurgents against Assad in Syria.

 

[lariat]

wow, this is exactly the wording used by the left when we supplied the insurgents against Assad in Syria.

How'd that go?

 

[rtB]

How'd that go?

They were mostly peaceful insurgents, fighting for peace, democracy and oil pipelines.

 

[steve podleski]

How'd that go?

Thanks to Obama inviting Putin to intervene to remove Syrian chemical weapons, the Russians took advantage of the clueless Obama administration.

...and imagine...
the French saying that it is not worth supporting those rebels under Washington since they are fighting a losing battle against a superpower
The US saying supporting the English in 1940 is hopeless since they are fighting a superpower that conquered the continent in weeks
The US saying supporting the Russians in 1941 is hopeless since the Nazis have advanced hundreds of miles and taking millions of prisoners in weeks.
So you Putin supporters are saying to your enemies: when things get tough, GIVE UP SURRENDER!

 

[RGStory]

This. The number of [intentional or not] shills on this forum is surprising. I think the objective discussion of the conflict was about 20 pages ago.

Agreed, it would be nice to return to that.

However, this is a shooting forum. If I want an objective unencumbered discussion about strategy and progress in the Ukraine war, there are other locations for that.

This place is the equivalent of sitting inside the local bar just off the shooting range and while sometimes fun, interesting, and occasionally entertaining, its expecting a little too much to hope it will be free of distractions, hyperbole, unvetted materials and baseless acquisitions.

 

[ken226]

So you Putin supporters are saying to your enemies: when things get tough, GIVE UP SURRENDER!

I don't think anyone here is saying that, at all.

But some here may be saying that Ukraine is Epstein Island 2.0, and a massive laundering and kickback operation for crooked politicians. So we don't give a fuck who snuffs them out, as long as someone does. Better that the Russkies die hosing down that dumpster fire than us.

 

[lariat]

Thanks to Obama inviting Putin to intervene to remove Syrian chemical weapons, the Russians took advantage of the clueless Obama administration.

...and imagine...
the French saying that it is not worth supporting those rebels under Washington since they are fighting a losing battle against a superpower
The US saying supporting the English in 1940 is hopeless since they are fighting a superpower that conquered the continent in weeks
The US saying supporting the Russians in 1941 is hopeless since the Nazis have advanced hundreds of miles and taking millions of prisoners in weeks.
So you Putin supporters are saying to your enemies: when things get tough, GIVE UP SURRENDER!

No, I think what people here are doing is more like a WWE cage match with 6 individual wrestlers: some are willing to sit on the turnbuckles and watch. No need to get involved in a family feud or send your family or tax dollars.

 

[acudaowner]

they are holding the world largest dance-a-thon and the song they choose is


so get down with your bad self .

 

[DocRDS]

Agreed, it would be nice to return to that.

However, this is a shooting forum. If I want an objective unencumbered discussion about strategy and progress in the Ukraine war, there are other locations for that.

This place is the equivalent of sitting inside the local bar just off the shooting range and while sometimes fun, interesting, and occasionally entertaining, its expecting a little too much to hope it will be free of distractions, hyperbole, unvetted materials and baseless acquisitions.

That sounds like an insult to the locals at my bar!

The amount of baseless jackhammer overused labels and hyberole in here makes MSNBC seem tame.

 

[RGStory]

Thanks to Obama inviting Putin to intervene to remove Syrian chemical weapons, the Russians took advantage of the clueless Obama administration.

...and imagine...
the French saying that it is not worth supporting those rebels under Washington since they are fighting a losing battle against a superpower
The US saying supporting the English in 1940 is hopeless since they are fighting a superpower that conquered the continent in weeks
The US saying supporting the Russians in 1941 is hopeless since the Nazis have advanced hundreds of miles and taking millions of prisoners in weeks.
So you Putin supporters are saying to your enemies: when things get tough, GIVE UP SURRENDER!

...Or more specifically regarding Russia, starting with the Greek Civil War and on through to the Second Nagorno-Karabakh War... and now Ukraine.

Perhaps people just feel good about supporting anyone fighting an aggressive nation with a propensity to wave a hammer and sickle flag around.

 

[Snuby642]

Agreed, it would be nice to return to that.

However, this is a shooting forum. If I want an objective unencumbered discussion about strategy and progress in the Ukraine war, there are other locations for that.

This place is the equivalent of sitting inside the local bar just off the shooting range and while sometimes fun, interesting, and occasionally entertaining, its expecting a little too much to hope it will be free of distractions, hyperbole, unvetted materials and baseless acquisitions.

You know at the top of the page it says bear pit.

It implies no more sobriety, truth, conscious thought or cordial demeanor than say Washington DC is required.

Although on most days it's twice as good as our country's leaders at a minimum.

 

[sharac]

Perhaps people just feel good about supporting anyone fighting an aggressive nation with a propensity to wave a hammer and sickle flag around.

Youre talking about people supporting Russia? When did you switch sides and realized that as of late its the US that is an aggressive nation with newly found hammer and sickle to wave around with.

 

[RGStory]

Youre talking about people supporting Russia? When did you switch sides and realized that as of late its the US that is an aggressive nation with newly found hammer and sickle to wave around with.

I never switched sides. I am not referring to people supporting Russia. I am referring to Russians specifically.

I suppose then you are unware of the resurgence of the hammer and sickle flags and you somehow missed the fact that Russians soldiers have a propensity to wave that flag around everywhere they go in Ukraine?

Here let me help you out.

To disabuse anyone thinking this is a recent phenomenon:





Let me know if you are confused as to which side is waving these around in Ukraine. Hint... They ain't American.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Did not fact check.... It would be good if this plan worked.

Senior Ukrainian negotiators David Arakhamia and Mykhailo Podolyak are ready to go to Mariupol to negotiate exit of civilians and military from the sieged city without preliminary conditions - statement

 

[Sako man]

So it's literally these guys.

VS.

These guys

One group is led by a self proclaimed coke head globalist cuck and his globalist overlords. The other is led by a power hungry tyrant.

And you want to pick sides?



If it were not for the fact that innocent people are caught in the middle of this I would say fuck e'm both.

And this is where I say pay attention, but you wont. We have plenty of communists now working hard on our soil. The same crowd that wants to fund Ukraine is going to totally ignore this fact. Comparing Ukraine with American revolutionaries is so far off the mark it's retarded. Prove me wrong.

 

[RGStory]

yep.
and Again....
Not picking sides.
Just pointing out that its completely understandable that someone wouldn't want to live under the hammer and sickle and many people would support a people fighting against it.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

So you Putin supporters are saying to your enemies: when things get tough, GIVE UP SURRENDER!

No, what I am saying is Fuck Ukraine. Its a damned welfare state and has been for years. You know how Ukraine paid if debts in the 1990’s? It sold off a shit ton of Soviet Arms, like Tu-160’s and Tu-95’s back to Russia.

Russia as a country has more to offer the world. Energy, Food, Minerals... what is it that Ukraine does for the world???

This war happened because ignorant people(obama/biden) wanted to go fuck around on someone else's turff.

Fuck em.

 

[n2ishun]

And that's why, to this day, there is no popcorn shortage at your local grocery store.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

Seriously?

The Russians had a good 72-96 hours to make shit happen before their initial assaults stalled. After that logistical debacle, the world saw that the Ukrainians stood a chance and started to mobilize support.

This is why the Russians are launching their Donbas operation prematurely. They need a decisive win before that support starts to show up in significant enough number and quality of equipment to impact the outcome.

And what exactly is there to gain???

And does that gain offset the destruction currently being caused?

What is the benefit of welfaring Weapons to Ukraine? Whats the end game?

 

[Darayavaus]

Youre talking about people supporting Russia? When did you switch sides and realized that as of late its the US that is an aggressive nation with newly found hammer and sickle to wave around with.

it's an established fact that the Neocons are Trotskyists. that is their heritage, and they have not strayed from their roots.

for some unknown reason though, these neocons here think that they are actual "conservatives" yeah, sure. perpetual world revolution to promote "Democratic Ideals" that sounds "conservative"....not like Marxists at all.


edit - here's a better article:

Trotsky, Strauss, and the Neocons, by Justin Raimondo

 

[RGStory]

And what exactly is there to gain???

And does that gain offset the destruction currently being caused?

What is the benefit of welfaring Weapons to Ukraine? Whats the end game?

WTF are you talking about?

My statement was directly responding to your declaration that the Russians would have won by now had the West not provided overwhelming support after the Russians invaded.


The reason the Russians' didn't win in the first 30 days is simple.
They are REALLY bad at this whole warfare thing.

I mean they fucking suck.

I can't be more clear here so let me throw some additional adjectives down with caps lock on.
THEY REALLY FUCKING BLEW IT OUT THEIR ASS.

Maybe they will get their shit together. Maybe they won't.

 

[theLBC]

And what exactly is there to gain???

And does that gain offset the destruction currently being caused?

What is the benefit of welfaring Weapons to Ukraine? Whats the end game?

end game? billions of dollars in the pockets of warmongers and politicians.
the afghan wallet went dry and had to be replaced.

 

[Darayavaus]

"The great rule of conduct for us, in regard to foreign nations, is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. Europe has a set of primary interests, which to us have none, or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves, by artificial ties, in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics" - George Washington, Founding Father

compare and contrast with

"We must be the great arsenal of democracy." -FDR, Radical Socialist

 

[Lostin89]

.

Don't confuse our hatred of the Biden NWO and CIA backed Ukrainian money laundering and human trafficking regime - as actually being pro-Putin. The enemy of my enemy is not actually my friend. It's just another enemy.

Mad, can't say it better. The problem with a lot of people (just like covid) is, you either capitulate or your "the problem."

People are going to get killed everyday in this world. A lot of people are only worried about Ukraine civilians now bc the news told them to.

How many people are murdered across the world everyday that they keep quiet about.

Like so many have said "I support the current thing!" Que the msm to tell me what's next.

 

[theLBC]

tranny taking credit for helping capture and kill gonzalo lira.

 

[Sako man]

tranny taking credit for helping capture and kill gonzalo lira.

I heard something about that on Felix Rex, if that's true He/She/Him/Her what ever the fuck pronouns is gonna get some hate! But I am wondering if the bitch just is missing a comma, if it really means the &, then that is some fucked up shit.

 

[DocRDS]

And what exactly is there to gain???

And does that gain offset the destruction currently being caused?

What is the benefit of welfaring Weapons to Ukraine? Whats the end game?

I dunno, bogging down a potential rival in a long term protracted war that bankrupts their economy and/or causes them to become an insignificant player in future events?

See also, Afghanistan (3), Vietnam, Algeria, the Peninsula Campaign, American Revolution