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Is something going on in Ukraine?
- Thread starter Cardboard55
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The entire history of that area of the world going back to the days of Rome is very interesting, and something that even educated americans on the subject still can't quite grab. The "feelings" to the other "groups" in that section of the world, running up from Greece straight north to Baltic sea, so think on one end the Adriatic on the other the black and go basically straight up till you hit the Baltic and that entire "section" is full of "ethnic" groups that don't like each other very much. The only reason it did not get real nasty is guys like Tito held the reigns with an iron fist. After that went away it got very messy. Every once and a while during the "modern" age things will get real messy again, think Cyprus in the 70's. These are two countries on the "same side", real messy to this day. It is funny I just looked and even google maps has "no mans land" between them.
I have freedom of speech. But I don't know how that relates to the topic we are discussing.
I think that the world has proven that there's majority of people that believe what they are told. But you won't find that statistic with the people here
It's already over if the fight is limited to Ukraine. Unless NATO is willing to commit warm bodies to the trenches, the Ukrainian forces are not going to last much longer. They just don't have the manpower to continue fighting given how fast they're losing people. 12 mobilizations so far for Ukraine? This is BEFORE Russia launches their offensive any day now (still shaping the battlefield?, waiting on the anniversary date?).
Sending Ukraine 3 different types of tanks with minimal training in usage and repair, adding to the logistical burden... we're kinda scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of support now. Almost setting them up for failure in a way.
Some might say looking at our history since WW2, we've lost more conflicts overall than we've "won", even with vastly superior firepower and logistics.
We CAN afford to lose this conflict. That's why we used Ukraine in a proxy war. If this sh*t doesn't work out, we walk away like we often do. Maybe we lose some reputation and the Chinese can laugh at us, but existentially speaking... the USA is better off losing 20-50% of Ukraine to Russia and ending this than to risk a hot war with a nuclear power for which this conflict IS existential.
If Russia took over Canada and was doing the same thing to us, we would look at this very differently. And it would be more personal.
Reminder that we are fighting a war in Russia's backyard. Logistically speaking, this is a ground war and close to them. Their advantage.
Yes, we have prepositioned equipment, but we're literally fighting a war 1/2 way around the world where we have to transport everything. Our allies in the EU... are weak and with the exception of France will not offer much in a war with Russia. Turkiye is an exception, but I could see them either siding with Russia or staying out of it.
Once fully engaged with Russia in a land based conflict next to Russia, it would be a great time for China to blockade Taiwan (not invade)... in early April is my guess. But not unless we were fully engaged and shooting back and forth.
Timing really puts us in a hard spot as we could be facing 2 near peers in conflict simultaneously on the other side of the planet. Logistically, I do not believe we have the people or ability to do that effectively. Though if China does blockade Taiwan I see us sending ships anyway. Whether we actually trade missiles and such is a different story.
Douglas Macgregor stated that the US is a superpower based on naval and aerospace, not land based war. Fighting Russia in their strength and our weaker facet would not be smart.
IF we must engage with Russia, I hope the US armed forces plan to do it in a manner that leverages our Navy and Air Force (maritime and aerospace), and stays far far away from Russian artillery, front line trench warfare. The Ukrainians are literally feeding a meatgrinder right now.
Do not want anything to do with that for American troops.
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Personally, I believe NATO pushed Russia into this position and actions. From the perspective of values, Putin has more in common with me than 1/2 of America.
That said, he is not a "good guy" in terms of how he runs and treats the citizens under his care. I know many people disagree with this including Macgregor, but I do believe he is aiming to expand and build a new empire. Primarily to secure his borders given how indefensible much of them are now (flat land).
You are sorta correct, half correct.....and then again not correct at all IMHO.
If it is possible for a human to look on this without his personal feelings coming into the mix I doubt it.
You say Level the whole nation, what nation?
I do think there is a good guy, and a right side.
I see this entire thing starting and look back on it with a different eye then I had at that time. It seems to me that the troops sat on the russian side of the border for a very long time. Why. Some of us know it is not good to put an "army" in the field and give them nothing to do, it will fall apart. Why did it sit there so long, I have a feeling that things we still have no idea about are being talked about in back rooms everywhere.
Perhaps it is my personal feelings on our current .gov, but I think russia found out something in Ukraine and they did not like it one bit. My bet is the biolabs. That I think was their line in the sand. I really think Putin could care less about if americans want to die their hair cut their penis in half and call themselves women, fine you do you, but you put a bio lab this close to my home turf and I am going to have a problem. Make all the money you want off your citizens, I don't care, but don't put that lab there. This group in our .gov is the kind of people that are so arrogant they are not going to do it. Finally the trigger was pulled. They know the west and the media, so why even let it out, everything is the fault of the russians already, why bother.
Where the mistake was made is the russians did not figure on the west being this corrupt. The rot goes deeper.
There are good guys, and a right side, and it ain't us sad to say.
Now you are seeing all the bad that will come from this; for Russia can not afford to lose either.
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Yes. Bio labs, corruption, US influence and Ukraine’s push towards NATO. All of that caused this
Putin is not the good guy, he is just doing what he has to do in order to maintain his power and protect Russia.
I still believe turning Ukraine into a no man’s land is the best outcome.
Because there were still cross “minks” border shellings occurring and the west was helping ukraine build an army. Remember in 2018 when zelensky sailed two gun boats and a tug boat under the Crimean bridge.
Russia seizes Ukrainian ships near annexed Crimea
Russian ship opens fire on Ukrainian vessels near the Kerch Strait, wounding sailors, as UN Security Council to convene.
Thats why he kept forces. Constant probing was occurring.
I wonder if that is exactly what will happen. Makes for a clean, logical easy off ramp for NATO (probably exactly why it won't happen).
Western Ukraine (now "New Ukraine") will be severely handicapped and prevented from arming up again. Russia won't make the same mistake twice after trusting the West with the Minsk Accords/Agreements. They basically used a FALSE agreement they never intended to honor to stall and arm up/train Ukraine for this current conflict. Germany has admitted this officially.
All the EU nations that would have been useful as mediators were complicit and have lost all credibility in acting as neutral parties (including the Swiss). More short sightedness on the part of the West.
Eastern Ukraine (will be known as маленькая россия), the 25% of the Eastern part of the country will be under Russian control as a buffer to extend the distance of NATO from Russia proper.
In the middle will be a "demilitarized zone" like the Korean one.
The Russians are expecting and preparing for a very large conflict. Western powers are not prepared for it.
I firmly believe NATO will be the first to use tactical nukes if anyone does.
We need an off ramp because the assh*ts that got us into this mess are only getting us deeper and deeper into it.
I could see a brief conflict and an Afghanistan/Vietnam type pullout leaving the Ukranians screwed over.
Personally, I am so deeply frustrated that this administration is burning through more of our reputation and goodwill in the world.
Reputation that is hard earned from the blood of patriots and easily lost from ________ (you fill in the blank).
I'm surprised at how many people here refuse to fall in line with the narrative. It makes me wonder if it's just us, or if there is a disenfranchised majority out there who think the same way, which the news never admits to.
there are a handful of pro-regime mouthpieces here, although I have not seen the John McCain bot since his little fuckup the other day.
Putin's just cleaning out the people who will stand up to Russia when Russia takes over Ukraine.
Unless Ukraine can hit Russia 200 miles inside Russian borders to stop the flow of fuel and supplies, Ukraine can't take stuff back.
Ukraine has to hit manufacturing etc.. to stop the flow. Hit airbases to eliminate planes, etc.
It's equivalent of watching the US try to stop the flow of arms into Vietnam, when the route was going through Cambodia.
Unless Ukraine can hit Russia 200 miles inside Russian borders to stop the flow of fuel and supplies, Ukraine can't take stuff back.
Ukraine has to hit manufacturing etc.. to stop the flow. Hit airbases to eliminate planes, etc.
It's equivalent of watching the US try to stop the flow of arms into Vietnam, when the route was going through Cambodia.
Protect Russia, protect his country. I don't think that makes him the bad guy. I think he was forced to "protect" his country. The big fat kid on the playground that kept getting poked and poked, teased and teased, finally he snapped and said enough is enough.
In general I can't say one way or the other, all I can go on.....all any of us can go on is what we are told about the man. Knowing all we know now, what should I think. Me I am going to stand on the fence and not make a judgement.
But we are on this one specific topic, invasion of Ukraine. And he is not the monster we are told he is. And if we look to people running from the country to escape the "draft". Ok, I have little doubt people are doing that, but how many. I have a feeling in russia they show a news story about the US and it says they are burning down their cities all over.....and yes it is true, SOME are but not a majority.
Long winded way of saying I don't know anymore, but this specific instance he is not the bad guy.
If Ukraine/NATO strike into Russia proper, that WILL escalate tremendously.
At that point I couldn't blame Moscow for striking at London, Warsaw, etc.
Whether Putin is a good or bad person.. IDK. Never met em.
But his ACTIONS are certainly more level headed and putting his citizens best interests first far more than our leaders are with US citizens. That much is undeniable regardless of what side you support.
But his ACTIONS are certainly more level headed and putting his citizens best interests first far more than our leaders are with US citizens. That much is undeniable regardless of what side you support.
My wife made a really good point a moment ago. Given that Turkiye is recovering from the earthquake, they likely won't be able to politically justify using resources for WAR, when there are so many citizens that need help.
Russia is assisting Turkiye in S&R right now. Funny how we don't hear about the EU or US jumping to support them or fundraising or Westerners doing stupid virtue signaling on social media.
Not white enough? Not Western enough? Doesn't act like a vassal state?
Or because it's hard to respect a country named after a fat flightless bird?
(Even when you add the "e" at the end to it.)
Russia is assisting Turkiye in S&R right now. Funny how we don't hear about the EU or US jumping to support them or fundraising or Westerners doing stupid virtue signaling on social media.
Not white enough? Not Western enough? Doesn't act like a vassal state?
Or because it's hard to respect a country named after a fat flightless bird?
(Even when you add the "e" at the end to it.)
It does give you a different look having someone you know being "native" to a specific area. I have been lucky to know a few people from other parts of the world, sitting here thinking how could I have, I really dislike people in general why do I know so many folk from other parts of the world......
I had a friend that came over right after the wall fell, she has very interesting stories about life in Russia when it was the USSR, and shortly after the big mess that it was.
I could babble along like usual about the different stories from other folk I have known, but am trying to stay on task.
Listened to an interesting interview Mike Rowe did with Todd Rose the CEO of Populace. They've done some interesting studies about people's private opinions.
295: Todd Rose—We're Still We the People - The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe
What started as a series of short mysteries for the curious mind with a short attention span has evolved into enlightening conversations for the not-so-short attention span. Whether it’s a short mystery, a long conversation, or an audio book, The Way I Heard It is a veritable box of chocolates...
Populace
Populace is a think tank committed to build a world where all people have the opportunity to pursue a fulfilling life in a thriving society.
populace.org
Just reading through the summaries of what they've found is interesting.
Home — Populace
populace.org
The US may very well find itself having to threaten to use nukes like some regional power just trying to survive. Going from the favoured son, to some random cousin hoping for a decent seat at the table. Idiot citizens voted for this.
Home - Rage Against the War Machine
Feb 17, 2024: Unite with RAWM, Libertarians, Peoples Party to end the Deep State. Break secrecy, cut military budget, reclaim our liberties. #DefeatDeepStaterageagainstwar.com
I am ready should one arise locally to join a peace protest, protesting war in parts of the world that do not directly threaten us
The "leaders" of the western world are determined to attack Russia and provoke China and do everything possible to send young sons and people to their deaths
We have troops already positioned in Poland for ground war with Russia
Is it for enrichment of their bank accounts? Is it because they are sociopaths that don't care if people's kids die as long as they get more power?
Once NATO forces go toe to toe with Russia, it will of course escalate and end up becoming large scale
The United States cannot afford to fight a war on Russia's doorstep, I actually think we'd lose given that we'd have to transport every bullet, every soldier, every piece of equipment overseas; our NATO allies have nothing in their armories left
Even worse, once we are fully engaged with Russia, early April will be when China may decide to invade Taiwan which would then result in us fighting a second war... on China's doorstep
Then we would have two theaters of war to contend with simultaneously with the number two and number three near peer military powers in the world
With less than half a million active duty in US Armed Forces, we would be stretched awfully thin in a very short amount of time
Logistically speaking, we would fail in short order
The Russians fight methodically and slowly grinding away, they use a war of attrition as they have for decades
The United States cannot afford to fight that kind of war or fight against that kind of opponents, if we lose a single aircraft carrier to china with 4000+ soldiers in one day we will lose the momentum and support of the American people, as a country, we simply will not except huge losses
I see us going toward a dead end of our own choosing, I don't see China or Russia enticing us or in trapping us into this
I see us pushing our way into a dead end
Until the western and American people start to wake up and demand our "leaders" stop pushing, I fear best case scenario is huge loss of life around the world, including Americans
(we're struggling enough with recruiting now, can you imagine how difficult it would be to recruit for a volunteer army immediately after losing huge numbers in an unnecessary and unpopular war?)- we would be left even more vulnerable after, we always need to think about not just exit strategy from a conflict, but how will we rebuild and what condition will we be in after should another threat arise before we can fully rebuild
Worst case scenario, global nuclear war.
Logically speaking, there is nothing to be gained by moving forward down the path we're on unless you are desperately trying to hold onto American hegemony and want to continue to dominate the world
For average Americans, we don't want need or appreciate this
We want a strong military to protect us, but American interests are not met by going toe to toe with Russia
I hope that you will think about this and consider what you can do earlier now today to help stop and slow this
because in the end… We are going to regret it like Vietnam
The painful part of watching history unfold, is knowing that it's just going to repeat itself
The fear is that it's going to repeat itself with a big bang ending this time
We took 2 peer conflicts off the qudrennial review under KLINTON....now makes total sense doesn't it?
None of this makes any sense.
Clinton removed two peer conflicts - "bad"
Trump pulled our troops home - "bad" (from a McCain-type point of view)
Obama cut defense spending - "bad"
Biden wants to cut military spending - "bad"
Biden weakens the military with woke bullshit so that even with proper weapon system we are combat ineffective - very bad
But we still hear that the MIC is gunning for war for cash. If that's the case, the MIC should have hated all 4 as they reduced their top line revenue.
Something doesn't add up.
Clinton removed two peer conflicts - "bad"
Trump pulled our troops home - "bad" (from a McCain-type point of view)
Obama cut defense spending - "bad"
Biden wants to cut military spending - "bad"
Biden weakens the military with woke bullshit so that even with proper weapon system we are combat ineffective - very bad
But we still hear that the MIC is gunning for war for cash. If that's the case, the MIC should have hated all 4 as they reduced their top line revenue.
Something doesn't add up.
They can’t get their story straight. Either Russia is some broke ass goof who can’t project fuck all, or a superpower bent on global domination. Which is it? Along with that, the US military, which many of us served in, has been starting wars all over the world for centuries to kill those who stood in the way of our domination, but Russia going next door is an existential threat to the existence of the west. You can tell who the rich privileged know it alls are. The rest of their crew are the same idiots that get in fist fights over professional sports.
They have. Hit airbases, the Crimean bridge, border towns. Etc
Russia responded by bombing the shit out of Ukraine’s Electric Grid and water infrastructure.
All the same, this TJ quote also addresses that. "Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question."
Show me a government that is good. Through out history. The closest thing to "good government" in the history of the world has been our Confederation and then early republic, Circa 1777 to just before the Civil War.
In ancient times, the Greeks were awful. Arguably worse and more despotic than the Persians. Babylon, Egypt, Assyria? Forget about it. The Romans were bastards. The Byzantines were corrupt beyond measure. Tribal governments always descended into Might Makes Right with a warrior class and a peasant class. Medieval Feudalism? we are approaching that system again. Monarchy and aristocracy? again, the vast majority make Putin look enlightened. Human government is far from good. Because people absolutely suck. Biden sucks. He and the people in power now are arguably worse than Russia. The current US government sucks and are hell-bent on taking everything you own.
Our Early American Republic based on moral enlightenment ideals is a total one-off which will never be repeated under the current idiocracy.
I don't remember if it's the Swedes or Norway...
Whom ever is water it was near had to have been in on it as their sonar nets would've known there was intrusion into their waters
Bear in mind this article is based on an "anonymous" source, so take it with a grain of salt
Nevertheless... it reads like a spy novel...
seymourhersh.substack.com
Whom ever is water it was near had to have been in on it as their sonar nets would've known there was intrusion into their waters
Bear in mind this article is based on an "anonymous" source, so take it with a grain of salt
Nevertheless... it reads like a spy novel...
How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline
The New York Times called it a “mystery,” but the United States executed a covert sea operation that was kept secret—until now
seymourhersh.substack.com
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US bombed Nord Stream gas pipelines, claims investigative journalist Seymour Hersh
The bombing of the Nord Stream underwater gas pipelines in the Baltic Sea was a covert operation ordered by the White House and carried out by the CIA, a report by a veteran investigative journalist claims. Seymour Hersh, a Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter, has claimed that US deep-sea divers, using
www.thetimes.co.uk
In Ukraine, organizations and enterprising indiviuals are offering various solutions for avoiding mobilization.
An advertisement is shown where Ukrainian men are offered to have their "arms and legs broken" so that they will be saved from the brutal mobilization.
It is written that
: "A surgeon with many years of experience will break your arms under anesthesia." Closed fracture, a hundred percent guarantee! It will be healed within a month, and you can defer mobilization for six months.Best price is guaranteed.Complete anonymity is guaranteed!
An advertisement is shown where Ukrainian men are offered to have their "arms and legs broken" so that they will be saved from the brutal mobilization.
It is written that
: "A surgeon with many years of experience will break your arms under anesthesia." Closed fracture, a hundred percent guarantee! It will be healed within a month, and you can defer mobilization for six months.Best price is guaranteed.Complete anonymity is guaranteed!
Maybe it’s not about race but about Turkeys behavior during the last thousand years.
'US carried out Nord Stream bomb attack in top secret Biden-led plan'
U.S. Navy diving teams carried out the attack against the Nord Stream pipelines during a top secret mission overseen by President Joe Biden, a bombshell report claims.
Pretty much now way to deny it now and it's looking pretty bad for Norway also being a bad actor.
Speaking of infrastructure, seen this?
ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com
Planning for the operation in 2021? That’s interesting.
I’m not looking forward to the retaliation
'US carried out Nord Stream bomb attack in top secret Biden-led plan'
U.S. Navy diving teams carried out the attack against the Nord Stream pipelines during a top secret mission overseen by President Joe Biden, a bombshell report claims.www.dailymail.co.uk
Pretty much now way to deny it now and it's looking pretty bad for Norway also being a bad actor.
Seymour Hersh committed suicide in 3... 2... 1...Speaking of infrastructure, seen this?
ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
Planning for the operation in 2021? That’s interesting.
I’m not looking forward to the retaliation
I almost had to look. I thought Wade had joined the conversation
Most people, that are not watching housewives of Atlanta or the Kardashians, pretty much knew this within days of it. I think that and then the bombing of Poland were attempted false flag events. When the bullshit was called out the stories drop from the news cycle.US bombed Nord Stream gas pipelines, claims investigative journalist Seymour Hersh
The bombing of the Nord Stream underwater gas pipelines in the Baltic Sea was a covert operation ordered by the White House and carried out by the CIA, a report by a veteran investigative journalist claims. Seymour Hersh, a Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter, has claimed that US deep-sea divers, using
Yea I have. RT just did a thing on it too. They have been talking about ending NORD for years. Control of Energy is a lot of what this war is about.Speaking of infrastructure, seen this?
ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
Planning for the operation in 2021? That’s interesting.
I’m not looking forward to the retaliation
BTW. Hearing reports Eastern forces have pushed west of Soledar and has forces on the M03 Road north out of Bakhmut. Not much Left of the City. The 00506 is still under western control. Unless something changes it looks like the encirclement is not far off.
It's pretty hard to deny when the US military providing over-watch during the operation, didn't turn off their transponders.
One thing many people over look is the money Eastern Europe was making off transit fees of energy flowing thru pipelines out of Russia. The Nord stream bypassed all of them. They would have lost that Income and been stuck paying slightly higher prices as the Undersea Pipeline is more expensive than than land based. It was in their interest to destroy it... Cough cough Poland cough cough..
Don't be fooled about "democracy" for Ukraine... Control of OIL is extremely high up on the list.
Don't be fooled about "democracy" for Ukraine... Control of OIL is extremely high up on the list.
Yeah no shit. I seen the post and thought “I don’t remember writing that”.
Then I realized I hadn’t.
Langley, Lubyanka. same thing these days.
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