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Is something going on in Ukraine?
- Thread starter Cardboard55
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Thanks @Cardboard55
God Damn Russians. That briefing sounded like one from 1943 or 1944, not 2022.
And Damn those Germans. This situation involves them a whole lot more than it does the US. Pundits say the US doesn't care about NATO anymore... it seems the Germans are the ones who don't care, or are willing to do anything to help it.
Theres a Ukrainian going on... speaking on the house floor about a border crisis
NATO sec gen on live w/Swedish and Finnish representatives
Also Russians are doing a live-fire exercise 150 mi. off the coast of Ireland.
www.dailymail.co.uk
Also Russians are doing a live-fire exercise 150 mi. off the coast of Ireland.
Boris warns Putin invading Ukraine would be 'violent and bloody'
Boris Johnson delivered the stark message as he admitted that the prospects of averting a confrontation in the area were 'gloomy' as Biden prepares to send more than 8,000 troops.
MOSCOW: COUNTDOWN UNDERWAY, US SENDS SECURITY TEAMS TO AID IN EVAC
Sun Tzu said 'When you surround an army, leave an outlet free. Do not press a desperate foe too hard'.
MOSCOW: COUNTDOWN UNDERWAY, US SENDS SECURITY TEAMS TO AID IN EVAC - American Partisan
The State Department has quietly sent special operations teams into […]
www.americanpartisan.org
I don't think Putin as any intention of invading Ukraine. He's playing Mr. Potato head, Boris and the rest of these people, just for his own pleasure. If they let Ukraine into NATO that might change but Ukraine would not be an asset to NATO. And with the leadership in the EU, NATO is kind of an empty suit anyway.
Majority in NATO are a liability for us. Draining our resources and finances.
Diminishing returns for the US with the exception of the kickbacks prostitutes and drugs for the ruling class.
Diminishing returns for the US with the exception of the kickbacks prostitutes and drugs for the ruling class.
If you looked at the Ukraine as a buffer zone, Russia would have some advantages to somewhat control the buffer zone. Unfortunate there is no buffer zone between Mexico and the US.
20 years in the military, not an expert on anything.
I vote to stay the fuck out of this.
Give Ukraine aid, ok a little bit.
Send zero fucking troops, or ships, or airplanes or flying monkeys.
I vote to stay the fuck out of this.
Give Ukraine aid, ok a little bit.
Send zero fucking troops, or ships, or airplanes or flying monkeys.
Why isn't Germany taking the lead on this as I thought they were the big dog in EU? Could it be they depend on Russia for energy? Maybe because they no longer have any effective combat power as they have not been investing into their military per the NATO agreement? UK talking tough - how much combat power can they deploy into Ukraine?
Yes. As Kennedy did in the '60's. You can't have a combat base so close and I'm willing to go full tilt to prevent it. Nakita got that and backed down. The problem we may have now is Biden doesn't know what day it is, let alone the the gravity of trying to back down a capable adversary into a corner . Sun Tzu knew it but Joe Biden... ?
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It is very simple. Leadership of Germany, regardless of who they are, do not want to support this total bullshit coming from US and UK.
They know this is all artificially created bullshit and it has nothing to do with reality.
The Germans have most of the effective ground combat power (read armored) in theater right now, at least after considering the Poles, who also field a very respectable Army. Three Armored Bdes, each with 50ish advanced Leopard 2s. Four heavy mech bdes, although 2 of them are composed of soldiers from mixed countries (one w/ Dutch/German, one w/ French/German). Plus they have some great SP arty and combat engineers. With the will to use, it represents a powerful force, and as part of NATO, it is very powerful (i.e. US and Brits running air support, Poles doing ground stuff, the Vikings and Brits doing naval stuff in Baltic, Italians, Spanish and French running naval stuff in Med). US could stand-up an ABCT pretty quickly too in southern German.
Brits have next to nothing on the Continent. British Army of the Rhine is no more. Now they do have respectable naval and air assets, but those aren't much use in central Europe. Brits appear to have retreated as a ground power, but are reallocating back into their old reliable, Royal Navy. Here they might be the 3rd or 4th most powerful Navy in world, after US, PRC and perhaps Russia.
None of these assets - German, Brit, or American - need to be deployed into Ukraine. Simply moving them forward into Poland and Baltics, i.e. defending the standing NATO members, would likely serve to deter Russian aggression in Ukraine. Let's put Kaliningrad at risk...
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Some thoughts on the situation from MoA blog , are dead on to the current situation.
The 'western' media buildup for war in Ukraine was launched 63 days ago on November 22:
Nothing has happened since but there has been no letup:
The sheer size and scope of the Western information operations right now regarding Ukraine and Russia in my opinion dwarfs what was done in the lead up to the second invasion of Iraq.
Even in unimportant Australia, the commercial and public broadcasters feature daily stories about the plucky Ukrainians getting ready for an imminent Russian invasion and the print media feature think-pieces about Putin trying to recreate the glory days of Catherine the Great and a new Russian empire, etc. Then there are the stories of gallant NATO members rushing to assist little Ukraine. I am now completely unnerved by the scope and obvious imbalance of this coverage. The media is totally on board the war train.
Most of the propaganda is just crap. Today we hear about a recall of U.S. and British diplomat families from Kiev, additional weapon and money promises to Kiev, the repositioning of NATO forces and so on. None of this would have any effect in the case of war. But everything is done to keep this item at the top of the news.
There is only one thing missing and that is a Russian interest in invading the Ukraine
The current 'western' media campaign is supposed to give cover for an Ukrainian campaign against the rebelling Donbas provinces.
Russia must be pushed to either not intervene in the Ukrainian campaign or alternatively intervene with a huge invasion. Both would fit U.S. desires though the first is preferred.
Should the Donbas get attacked Russia would certainly intervene but it can and likely would do so without an invasion. Artillery and maybe some air campaign would be sufficient to destroy the Ukrainian attackers.
For those that claim to supply weapons to Ukraine is purely defensive, they can also be used to try and retake Donbas that has considerable armored force.
Brit superpower is their propaganda machine.
European land armies have downsized considerably, if there is no US airpower the provide CAS , there is precious little in terms of gound forces .
While the Donbas Rebels have mostly cold war gear, its on par with Ukrainian gear ..
euromaidanpress.com
The 'western' media buildup for war in Ukraine was launched 63 days ago on November 22:
Nothing has happened since but there has been no letup:
The sheer size and scope of the Western information operations right now regarding Ukraine and Russia in my opinion dwarfs what was done in the lead up to the second invasion of Iraq.
Even in unimportant Australia, the commercial and public broadcasters feature daily stories about the plucky Ukrainians getting ready for an imminent Russian invasion and the print media feature think-pieces about Putin trying to recreate the glory days of Catherine the Great and a new Russian empire, etc. Then there are the stories of gallant NATO members rushing to assist little Ukraine. I am now completely unnerved by the scope and obvious imbalance of this coverage. The media is totally on board the war train.
Most of the propaganda is just crap. Today we hear about a recall of U.S. and British diplomat families from Kiev, additional weapon and money promises to Kiev, the repositioning of NATO forces and so on. None of this would have any effect in the case of war. But everything is done to keep this item at the top of the news.
There is only one thing missing and that is a Russian interest in invading the Ukraine
The current 'western' media campaign is supposed to give cover for an Ukrainian campaign against the rebelling Donbas provinces.
12:47 UTC · Jan 24, 2022
️President Zelensky speaking to the Foreign Intelligence Service of Ukraine:
“We have learned to contain external threats. It is time we begin offensive actions aimed at securing our national interests. Our citizens are united in wanting their territory returned”
Russia must be pushed to either not intervene in the Ukrainian campaign or alternatively intervene with a huge invasion. Both would fit U.S. desires though the first is preferred.
Should the Donbas get attacked Russia would certainly intervene but it can and likely would do so without an invasion. Artillery and maybe some air campaign would be sufficient to destroy the Ukrainian attackers.
For those that claim to supply weapons to Ukraine is purely defensive, they can also be used to try and retake Donbas that has considerable armored force.
Brit superpower is their propaganda machine.
European land armies have downsized considerably, if there is no US airpower the provide CAS , there is precious little in terms of gound forces .
While the Donbas Rebels have mostly cold war gear, its on par with Ukrainian gear ..
Separatists in Donbas have more tanks than Germany, France, and Czech Republic combined
Separatists in Donbas have more tanks than Germany, France, and Czech Republic combined
The armed forces of the self-proclaimed "Luhansk and Donetsk People's Republics" ("LNR" and "DNR") have accumulated significant reserves of heavy weapons. According to deputy commander of the Anti-Terrorist Operation, Col. Valentyn Fedychev, as of 8 April 2015 Russia's hybrid army in Donbas has...
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- Leadership is extremely weak
- They have vastly underfunded the military since the early/mid 2000s
- Extremely weak mental capacity and non existent fortitude towards fighting a war in their population; these aren't the WW2 Germans, the cold war Germans or even the Germans from the late 90s/early 2000s.
- Almost all of their natural gas comes from Russia
- They would get their asses handed to them and they know it.
- Leadership is extremely weak
The fourth point about the nat gas is important. That’s how Russia can control the popular opinion of the German citizens if it comes to conflict. It’s one thing to have troops abroad. It quite another to also suffer in your own home.
And to think he was an Admiral. Our son's and daughters were at his beck and call.
"A very respectable Army". Three Armored BDEs and Four Heavy mech BDEs of multinational staffing. Let that sink in. That is basically two division (minus) assuming all that equipment operates. Think Germany may have underfunded their NATO obligations? Plus essentially no experience in combined arms warfare in decade+ (two decades?). Also, heavy brigades require huge logistical tail - does NATO have the infrastructure anymore to sustain modern combined arms warfare?
I saw this story play out in SW Asia when the NATO countries ponied up a company here and a couple of liaison officers there. There really is no NATO outside the US combat power.
We need tell the EU and their NATO teams this is their opportunity to shine and we are behind them all the way.
He was a public affairs admiral. He is still a douche.
Never understood why so many public affairs officers get such high ranks.
They are like 2% of the entire military but every enlisted person is a E8 or E9 when they retire and every officer is an O6.
I was in intel and aviation in the Navy. Aviation makes up something like 30% of the Navy, we have a lot of admirals, but a lot of competition.
I am pretty sure this is a sales tool for news agencies that don't want to talk about Biden, and nothing is really going on.
Yes, this!
I was in the military Attache office in Canberra, when the Australians asked for the Marine rotational force to be stood up in the Northern Territory to keep the Chinese from invading.
A small 15-30,000 man military does not assure soverignty to a big nation. But this is what Austrlalia, Canada and most of Europe has. With zero supply functions to make it fierce.
We are the only superpower in the world.
Even the Ukrainians don't know anymore what is going on. Must be the same brilliant planers that planned the Afghan exit at work
Former defense minister Andriy Zagorodnyuk, for example, wrote on Monday that "127k Russian servicemen along border, in occupied territories of eastern Ukraine and Crimea," adding "This figure has not actually increased since April. This number of troops is not enough for a full-scale offensive."
The Zelensky confidant reportedly echoed this sentiment - saying that the Ukrainian president "does not think there’s any remotely imminent threat to Kyiv," adding that "“The fact that the US was the first one to announce" the voluntary departures and mandatory withdrawals - "is extremely disappointing and quite frankly these Americans are safer in Kyiv than they are in Los Angeles ... or any other crime-ridden city in the US."
"Then Russia turns up the temperature and they’re the first to leave."
The Ukrainian Foreign Ministry also says it thinks the US jumped the gun.
"While we respect right of foreign nations to ensure safety & security of their diplomatic missions, we believe such a step to be a premature one & an instance of excessive caution," tweeted spox Oleh Nikolenko. "
"There is a lot of misinformation, manipulation, and fakes in the Ukrainian and international media to spread panic among Ukrainians and foreigners, scare business, undermine the economic and financial stability of our country. … It is important to soberly assess risks and remain calm," he told Interfax-Ukraine.
And talking about Afghan redoux , what the fuck are tens of thousands of Americans doing in Ukraine, everyone looking for a Ukrainian bride or what ,US embassy dolling out citizenships to all these brides ??
"The Pentagon hasn’t said under which circumstances the U.S. would deploy the 8.500 troops put on standby to deploy, but officials said it could send a signal to Russia that the U.S. would quickly bolster the defenses of NATO allies in the event of a Russian incursion into Ukraine."
"The troops could also be on standby should the U.S. decide they are needed to evacuate tens of thousands of Americans now residing in Ukraine, the officials said," the report continued. "The forces won’t be authorized to enter Ukraine, U.S. officials said, but they could be used to support any such contingency. Many of the forces must be prepared to move within 18 to 36 hours, U.S. officials said." Clearly the Afghan evacuation debacle and humiliation of last August, including dead American troops, is still looming large in defense officials' minds.
Former defense minister Andriy Zagorodnyuk, for example, wrote on Monday that "127k Russian servicemen along border, in occupied territories of eastern Ukraine and Crimea," adding "This figure has not actually increased since April. This number of troops is not enough for a full-scale offensive."
The Zelensky confidant reportedly echoed this sentiment - saying that the Ukrainian president "does not think there’s any remotely imminent threat to Kyiv," adding that "“The fact that the US was the first one to announce" the voluntary departures and mandatory withdrawals - "is extremely disappointing and quite frankly these Americans are safer in Kyiv than they are in Los Angeles ... or any other crime-ridden city in the US."
"On the one hand, [Washington tells Ukraine] how we should democratize. We stand with you. It's your right to determine to join the West. We will stand with you against Russian aggression," the source reportedly said, 'mimicking messages of support from the US to Ukraine in the past.'
"Then Russia turns up the temperature and they’re the first to leave."
The Ukrainian Foreign Ministry also says it thinks the US jumped the gun.
"While we respect right of foreign nations to ensure safety & security of their diplomatic missions, we believe such a step to be a premature one & an instance of excessive caution," tweeted spox Oleh Nikolenko. "
"There is a lot of misinformation, manipulation, and fakes in the Ukrainian and international media to spread panic among Ukrainians and foreigners, scare business, undermine the economic and financial stability of our country. … It is important to soberly assess risks and remain calm," he told Interfax-Ukraine.
And talking about Afghan redoux , what the fuck are tens of thousands of Americans doing in Ukraine, everyone looking for a Ukrainian bride or what ,US embassy dolling out citizenships to all these brides ??
"The Pentagon hasn’t said under which circumstances the U.S. would deploy the 8.500 troops put on standby to deploy, but officials said it could send a signal to Russia that the U.S. would quickly bolster the defenses of NATO allies in the event of a Russian incursion into Ukraine."
"The troops could also be on standby should the U.S. decide they are needed to evacuate tens of thousands of Americans now residing in Ukraine, the officials said," the report continued. "The forces won’t be authorized to enter Ukraine, U.S. officials said, but they could be used to support any such contingency. Many of the forces must be prepared to move within 18 to 36 hours, U.S. officials said." Clearly the Afghan evacuation debacle and humiliation of last August, including dead American troops, is still looming large in defense officials' minds.
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Do you think that the Russian military would actually do anything to harm an American diplomat? That's one sure way to get the USA involved. I am positive that they know our history of false flag bullshit getting us involved in others business.
Maybe you’ve heard of BENGHAZI……
vote to say out, leave NATO and kick the UN out of NYC
This just in:
The Biden Administration has announced that it is in talks with the Ukrainian government to ensure that all invading Russian Troops are able to show proof of vaccination before crossing the frontier.
Glad they have that sorted out. Carry on.
Sirhr
The Biden Administration has announced that it is in talks with the Ukrainian government to ensure that all invading Russian Troops are able to show proof of vaccination before crossing the frontier.
Glad they have that sorted out. Carry on.
Sirhr
Good God Ya'll what is it good for.
Fighting for joes coke, underage pussy and laundenderd money, not to mention distraction from our domestic failures?
Fighting for joes coke, underage pussy and laundenderd money, not to mention distraction from our domestic failures?
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You guys just need to ask @THEIS he’s fm Ukraine and knows the president there
The sad thing was that I didn't immediately think that this was a joke.
You can't be serious ???
Tanks ?
Big, slow, heavy, vulnerable.
Or did Desert Storm teach you nothing?
Do you think we are the only country with depleted uranium shells able to be fired from a low and fast aircraft ?
Tanks may have been only OK in WWII but were past their day by the time VietNahm played out.
Now, useless.
Germany and Russia have Oil and natural gas infrastructure deals. Germany does not want to bite the hand that feeds it. If Poland got involved however that would be a really bad deal for Russia. We need to stay the fuck out, full stop!
Germany’s Reliance on Russian Gas Limits Europe’s Options in Ukraine Crisis
Berlin is vulnerable if the West sanctions Russia over Ukraine and Moscow responds by cutting off natural-gas exports.
www.wsj.com
Look up the final 5-6 pages of the Hoplite rifles thread sewing circle/ladies bridge club.
Paraphrasing:
"if NATO activates one lever of a commitment we have, * *OR* * the security situation on the ground deteriorates" we go in.
Looks like the stage is set for us to go in unilaterally without UN/NATO/US Congress approval.
Yay
If tanks were useless then why does Russia have 1200 tanks on the Ukranian border? Mechanized divisions are a great way to hold territory. Yes, they can be vulnerable to air attacks but, the leopard 2 is especially fast and not as easy of a target as you would imagine. Not perfect but far from "useless."
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Does Ukraine have the same tank-destroying capabilities as Moscow? I saw a pic yesterday from Dover AFB of pallets of anti-tank mines being loaded up for Ukraine. I got the sense that Russia would pretty much establish air dominance quickly, absent any US/NATO involvement. That would tend to indicate that Russian armor remains a threat, at least more so than Ukraine armor.
Biden has a lot of Obama cabinet and appointee leftovers scuttling around. Both Biden and Barry's strings seem to be pulled by outsiders. The damage both have done to the country is unmistakable (immigration, crime, degraded energy resources). If it is the Russians and / or the Chinese, it would seem to be beneficial for them to keep Biden in power. Maybe they realize he may lose that power in November, so they need to take Ukraine and Taiwan while the getting is good? Just direct him to offer up some weak response, and roll on in?
Not advocating getting into anything, especially with the current military leadership. Seeing that blithering idiot Pentagon spox is a nightmare. Can't believe he and others weren't sacked after the Afghanistan withdrawal.
Then there are the Davos vultures...maybe it's all a distraction. The noise level is getting higher. Perhaps by design. Certainly part of Russian/Soviet technique. Ours and others also, to varying degrees.
Worth stepping back and trying to contemplate.
An old gem:
It's always something.
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While ATGM's can take a considerable toll on the armor, Artillery can do more and much faster.
These MLRS launched anti armor cluster munitions can wipe out entire armored formations in a single salvo .
SPBE - "Self-targeting combat element'' , submunition used in both aerial bombs and MLRS rockets in Syria., kinda like GBU-105 targets armor heat signatures each bomblet packing a sensor and an armor-piercing warhead later models also feature built-in IFF so can be used with armor in contact.
These MLRS launched anti armor cluster munitions can wipe out entire armored formations in a single salvo .
SPBE - "Self-targeting combat element'' , submunition used in both aerial bombs and MLRS rockets in Syria., kinda like GBU-105 targets armor heat signatures each bomblet packing a sensor and an armor-piercing warhead later models also feature built-in IFF so can be used with armor in contact.
If Poland got involved however that would be a really bad deal for Russia. We need to stay the fuck out, full stop!
Germany’s Reliance on Russian Gas Limits Europe’s Options in Ukraine Crisis
Berlin is vulnerable if the West sanctions Russia over Ukraine and Moscow responds by cutting off natural-gas exports.
Yea, I agree. That's how things escalate.
Poland starts a fight, and we're obligated by treaty to defend them.
U.S. submarines scrambled to find deadly Russian sub off East Coast
The U.S. Navy spent weeks trawling the North Atlantic in the hunt for a deadly Russian submarine that was known to have deployed into waters off the East Coast of the United States in fall 2019.
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Tanks remain the foundation of the combined arms fight in a conventional battlefield, at least if you believe anything coming out of the US Army National Training Center (NTC).
They aren't big, slow or vulnerable when the pace of operations is rapid. In fact, just the opposite, they are fire breathing beasts of war. Yes, attacking prepared, multiple lines of defense like the Germans faced at Kursk '43, the life of a tanker is tough, but in a breakout operation - like the Russians certainly hope to achieve quickly, driving all the way to the Dnieper in a few days - tanks remain the best weapon to achieve these deep objectives.
However, any army that relies solely on tanks is asking for failure. Heavy infantry with ATGMs, indirect fire from big guns 25 klicks to the rear, attack helos, combat engineers, fast moving aircraft, etc, all have major roles in supporting the tank. All this gear stuff needs to be on tracks (or damn close) such that they can keep pace across country with the fast moving tanks.
I do question the role of the light skinned, wheeled infantry fighting vehicle - i.e. the Stryker. Time and time again that platform fails at NTC to the heavy stuff. Yet this is what we have right now on the ground in Germany, at least with crews.
@TheGerman
Do you really think the Germans would get their asses kicked by the Russians? Take the best mech bde from PD.1 or PD.10 against a group of line Russian Arm'd Bns... Reinforce both with good air support...
I respect your opinion, but I was hoping they were a component force given their outstanding equipement (the Leopard 2 is a beast, as is the Puma) and skilled soldiers. I did run a few FTXs with them back in the Reforger days (Reforger 90
decades ago now), and I had a high respect for them. I always had a strong opinion of their captains and majors, smart, knowledgeable, and forward thinking. If this is not the case anymore, it is a grave situation indeed.
This is the cold war that never stopped. The US Submariner has been at war for the last 70 years, and there was no "fall of the wall" for them. Nothing new on the sub-surface front.U.S. submarines scrambled to find deadly Russian sub off East Coast
The U.S. Navy spent weeks trawling the North Atlantic in the hunt for a deadly Russian submarine that was known to have deployed into waters off the East Coast of the United States in fall 2019.www.google.com
Got to love the US and Brit pump jets however. Ruskies don't have them either, at least not widely. There is a "Hunt for Red October" but its more correctly called "Hunt for the 4th of July"
If I had to pick between this retarded dipshit:
And this retarded dipshit:
to give me foreign policy advice I am quite certain that the meth head would do far less damage to our nation, and cost us far less.
That Jake Sullivan still has a job after Afghanistan is unbelievable. Biden has always been a fucking moron, and has been wrong about every foreign policy decision his entire life. If he flipped a fucking coin he would double his % of being right, but he obviously picked an advisor who is dumber and more naïve than he is, which is quite a feat, even in a town full of credentialed morons who have never actually lived in the real world or had to fight bullies.
We are totally fucked. I hope we are not still fighting a world war by the time my boy turns 17. If we are I will do everything in my power to keep him out of the military.
It's gone my friends. This is post America.
And this retarded dipshit:
to give me foreign policy advice I am quite certain that the meth head would do far less damage to our nation, and cost us far less.
That Jake Sullivan still has a job after Afghanistan is unbelievable. Biden has always been a fucking moron, and has been wrong about every foreign policy decision his entire life. If he flipped a fucking coin he would double his % of being right, but he obviously picked an advisor who is dumber and more naïve than he is, which is quite a feat, even in a town full of credentialed morons who have never actually lived in the real world or had to fight bullies.
We are totally fucked. I hope we are not still fighting a world war by the time my boy turns 17. If we are I will do everything in my power to keep him out of the military.
It's gone my friends. This is post America.
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