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#102
Maggot said:
Fear never killed me. An MRAP might. The cops dont need this crap, its just a big power trip. But they sure could kill a lot of unsuspecting dogs with one of those. Make them feel like real men.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

ne Florida couple found out the hard way that though these rights exist in theory, the modern federal government feels free to play fast-and-loose with these concepts.

At approximately 6:16 am on June 10th, 2014, Kari Edwards and her live-in boyfriend were seized upon by a SWAT team who smashed in the door and using flashbangs and armed to the teeth, swarmed upon the couple and even stripped Ms. Edwards naked in the process.

The couple says that the group entailed personnel from DHS, for whom Edwards once worked. After smashing in the door, the tactical team threw in flashbang grenades, traumatizing their cat and swarmed upon Edwards’s boyfriend and Edwards who had just gotten out of the shower.

“They busted in like I was a terrorist or something,” Edwards said.

“[An officer] demanded that I drop the towel I was covering my naked body with before snatching it off me physically and throwing me to the ground.”

“While I lay naked, I was cuffed so tightly I could not feel my hands. For no reason, at gunpoint,” Edwards said. “[Agents] refused to cover me, no matter how many times I asked.”

“I have never been in any trouble before,” Edwards later stated. “Haven’t even had a traffic ticket in over ten years.”

The couple claim to have seen several different agency uniforms and Edwards repeatedly asked who they were and why they were there. Edwards claimed that they would only identify as “police” and refused to identify why they were there.

The couple has surveillance cameras which caught much of the action. When they were discovered, agents turned the cameras toward the wall.

After two hours and after the agents had thoroughly trashed the house, Edwards was given a warrant signed by Jonathan Goodman, a federal magistrate judge for the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida that authorized the agents to search for computers and electronics.

Edwards’ boyfriend fixes up old computers but she claimed that the police barely looked at any electronics and did not seize any of the electronics in the house.

Like so many recent instances regarding federal militancy, the root cause of the police action can be justifiable while the manner in which police are investigating alleged illegalities is wholly inappropriate. If the police had a warrant to search for electronics, it’s possible to have executed that warrant without the firepower once reserved for Army Rangers going door-to-door in Fallujah.

DHS SWAT excessive force raid on innocent couple - YouTube
Click to expand...




Hahahahahahaha...... Long live the LE haters. It's so funny how y'all give the media such a hard time about using 1 or 2 bad instances involving firearms and the media/left wing to use it for their gun control agenda but then you throw out random instances of LE making mistakes when in reality, LE and SWAT teams execute arrest/search warrants everyday across the US that are well planned/executed and secure valuable information or arrest of HVT criminals.

Again, this is just another thread for LE haters to post in. It's a shame really.
 
#105
coach4christ said:
I personally would rather our pd's have them then some other terrorist nation. I don't have a problem with the police. Most every one I have met have been stand up guys, but I know that there are rotten ones. Usually the people who have problems with the police are the ones that are toeing the line with the law.
Click to expand...

most laws are just one mans idea of how to control another man. If they arent about ways to control you, they are about way to use you to control another person. notice i said MOST lol.
 
#107
Pusher591 said:
Hahahahahahaha...... Long live the LE haters. It's so funny how y'all give the media such a hard time about using 1 or 2 bad instances involving firearms and the media/left wing to use it for their gun control agenda but then you throw out random instances of LE making mistakes when in reality, LE and SWAT teams execute arrest/search warrants everyday across the US that are well planned/executed and secure valuable information or arrest of HVT criminals.

Again, this is just another thread for LE haters to post in. It's a shame really.
Click to expand...

sup pig? burn any babies with flashbangs or kill any teenagers lately?
 
#108
coach4christ said:
Guys is it any different when a cop gets killed? Like it or not, they have a high stress job. They want to make it back home to their wife and kids as well. This whole anarchy movement concerns me more than cops having armored vehicles.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It's a shitty stressful job and is sadly, often thankless. That said, I think it's perfectly reasonable to question why it is necessary to have them driving around in military vehicles. Oh wait...RPGs.
 
#109
Sm, would you call those two incidents intentional?

I think of how many lives have been saved by police use of flash bangs. How many bad guy are still alive because of them also. Its a shitty mistake.

A cop gets a call about an active shooter, or a kid running about with a weapon. Its a split second decision to fire. Id rather the cop shoot, than get gunned down.

Again ,easy for me to say....
 
Last edited:
#111
51641809.jpg
 
#114
Smcarroll said:
the problems arise when 2 year olds are injured with flashbangs, when 12 year olds are shot in the back for having airsoft guns, when 17 yr olds are killed in their homes for answering the door with Wii remotes, when newspaper delivery ladies are shot up, when teargas grenades burn down your home. I am all for the police catching bad guys, it just seems to me like there is less of that and more of the leo's playing army.
Click to expand...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
#118
coach4christ said:
Guys is it any different when a cop gets killed? Like it or not, they have a high stress job. They want to make it back home to their wife and kids as well. This whole anarchy movement concerns me more than cops having armored vehicles.
Click to expand...

I have a high stress, very dangerous job that I just want to make it home from. Not good with stress and danger? don't be a cop.
 
#119
Horrendous maintenance costs
Proprietary parts
Requires specialized maintenance personnel
Huge target that was not quite designed for urban (close proximity) combat
Has a learning curve to using/driving
I know of at least a few ways of disabling one, practically by myself

What could go wrong?

The use of these as a show of force is probably their main value. If they are actually ever NEEDED, in the type of terrain and areas they would be utilized in (subdivision or city streets, houses and people on practically all sides of you); the vehicle's occupants will quickly find out how much of a bad idea it was to be inside of it.
 
#120
siscoe308 said:
Sm, would you call those two incidents intentional?

I think of how many lives have been saved by police use of flash bangs. How many bad guy are still alive because of them also. Its a shitty mistake.

A cop gets a call about an active shooter, or a kid running about with a weapon. Its a split second decision to fire. Id rather the cop shoot, than get gunned down.

Again ,easy for me to say....
Click to expand...

I don't think that dumb broad who caused the death of 2 people when she stopped to save ducklings intentionally killed those people, but she should still suffer the consequences.
 
#121
MtnCreek said:
OK
So we give the media a hard time for their attempts to undermine our second amendment rights.
We get upset when LE infringes on constitutionally protected rights.

You'll see a pattern there if you can take the Blue glasses off for just a minute.
Click to expand...


You missed the point completely. My point was that the media uses specific and biased stories to push their agenda. Sane goes for LE haters. They push stories only where LE make mistakes but never mention anything about the other hundreds of incidents that were professionally planned and executed. LE haters are just as narrow minded as any other irrational and immature people in this world and they prove on this forum on a weekly basis.

I mean, check out Smcarrolls post above, really!?!! Name calling already? What happen to discussion or debating.

I tell you what, I'm the first one to admit there are many men/women in law enforcement that are bad apples, but there are MANY MANY more that far out number those bad apples, but no one ever sees their work or sacrifices because its not publicized, as it shouldn't be. I don't do this job for the praise or the glory, I do this job because I'm good at it and because it's a great job to have.

It is what it is, most LE haters can't be reasoned with period, they are very narrow minded and bias. Many will claim I'm bias be a use I'm LE but that's very presumptuous. I feel I can comment and state my opinion because I wasn't LE before I was so I can at least speak from both sides of the fence.
 
#125
Guys,
Consider that HOW the police arrive to an incident has nothing to do with WHAT they are doing there. It's not like these things are coming equipped with the CROW systems. As Graham pointed out most of the MRAPs, whether it be the RG or MATV, or Buffalo, or whatever are pretty useless for civilan LE and a SWAT team could read a book while they waited for the hydraulic doors to open for them to then jump or climb out of the damn things. My old Bomb Squad would probably jump at one of the EOD variants, but in the end it would be a ton less comfortable or practical than our Bomb Truck which was just a 1 ton truck chassis with a camper body on the back of it for all of our shit.
Where these things will have merit, and can potentially SERVE the public is during natural disasters where the increased height and clearance are needed. My old Dept on the gulf coast had some surplus Deuce and a Halfs that were kept at each of the precincts. When we had severe flooding etc during hurricanes those were our one and only means of getting people out of their homes. We didn't use them to tear down houses or any of that shit, we used them because they were uniquely suited to get where our day-to-day vehicles couldn't get us.

Are some LE Agencies going to paint these things up to look like Rambo's pussy-wagon? Of course they are, but these things have no native weapons systems. They're just big clumsy trucks that would attract so much damn attention on the way to a warrant-service that I'd never try to get one into the shittier neighborhoods. Plus, again as [MENTION=13650]Graham[/MENTION] mentioned, you're as likely to roll the damn thing over as anything else.
 
#127
"Rambo's pussy-wagon" This is fucking epic!

I get what you're saying but that seems like a tremendous waste for a very specific mission. Secondly, it doesn't do any favors for LE in the PR department. Finally, it is still a military vehicle and really has no place in local law enforcement.
 
#129
Pusher591 said:
Fair enough, Im sorry you had to experience that. No harm no foul though. We will just have to agree to disagree :)
Click to expand...

I do not hate all cops, it just pisses me off that there seems to be an upward trend in killing innocents and not having consequences. Its a big fucking mess we have here, arming the cops with military grade hardware isn't the solution.
 
#132
Pusher591 said:
I tell you what, I'm the first one to admit there are many men/women in law enforcement that are bad apples, but there are MANY MANY more that far out number those bad apples, but no one ever sees their work or sacrifices because its not publicized, as it shouldn't be. I don't do this job for the praise or the glory, I do this job because I'm good at it and because it's a great job to have.
Click to expand...

I agree with your statement BUT, it's like peacefull muslums saying not ALL muslums are bad. You rarely see "good" muslums in the media speaking out against terroism just the same as not seeing good peace officers in the in the media speaking out against the bad ones. Muslums and cops are kind of the same in that respect. Neither speak out against the minority of individuals who make their own group look bad. They protect the image of the group.

Flames away.
 
Last edited:
#133
Smcarroll said:
I do not hate all cops, it just pisses me off that there seems to be an upward trend in killing innocents and not having consequences. Its a big fucking mess we have here, arming the cops with military grade hardware isn't the solution.
Click to expand...

Lets put it this way.

I dont hate cops. I have some friends who are cops.

I hate criminals. When cops become criminals and get away with it.....

Well, I hope you get the drift.
 
#134
600? That doesn't seem like a big deal, when spread out over 50 states, however; this does:
DHS buys new MRAP Armored Vehicles for use in the U.S

)March 5, 2013 in Preparedness


DHS buys new MRAP Armored Vehicles for use in the U.S

The Department of Homeland Security (through the U.S. Army Forces Command) recently retrofitted 2,717 of these ‘Mine Resistant Protected’ vehicles for service on the streets of the United States.

Vehicle details:
◾V-shaped hull to deflect IED blasts away from the vehicle
◾Vehicle can be fitted with add-on armor
◾Protection against direct fire and RPG rounds
◾Vehicle is powered by an International MaxxForce D9.3I6 diesel engine

The MaxxPro MRAP is built to withstand ballistic arms fire, mine blasts, IEDs, and other emerging threats. Its V-shaped hull helps deflect blasts out and away from the crew and its armoring can be customized to meet any mission requirement

MaxxPro means maximum protection.
◾Download the Spec Sheet
◾Compare Models
◾Browse All Models

Of the nearly 9,000 delivered MaxxPro units to the military, the Department of Homeland Security is apparently taking delivery (apparently through the Marine Corps Systems Command, Quantico VA, via the manufacturer – Navistar Defense LLC) of an undetermined number of the recently retrofitted 2,717 ‘Mine Resistant Protected’ MaxxPro MRAP vehicles for service on the streets of the United States.
 
#138
It may be necessary as I don't see any other way I could get my hands on one should the need arise. On August 30, 2005 I got hold of a Harbor Police rib to pluck two relatives from misery in the aftermath of hurricane Katrina.
 
#139
I am unsure how to feel about it. The escalation of violence by criminals these days almost makes it mandatory for police departments to upgrade their gear. Do I believe every police dept in the country needs this? No not really but in some cases it might be warranted, but the unfortunate circumstance is that even if it is purchased with the best intentions usually 1 or 2 bad apples abuse it and make the whole dept. look bad. That being said I don't believe that local PDs are going to turn into Federal lackey shock troops overnight and start going door to door and taking our women and children, at least not yet. LOL
 
#140
I wish my local PD had better cars (starting with a good chase car), some decent NV, better pay, better rain gear, the funding to attend any number of classes, and lots of other things. But I do not wish they had an MRAP because it is a waste of money. I have seen some amazing police work in more than one city and country and absolutely zero of it involved the sort of phallus that the MRAP represents. It was accomplished by smart men and women who were dedicated and had strong ties to the community at hand. It was not because they chose to make an outrageous spectacle of themselves.
 
#141
MtnCreek said:
" ◾Download the Spec Sheet "

If these are going to our military and you can 'download a spec sheet', that's crazy.
Click to expand...
To download the Spec Sheet, go to Navistar Defense. These have been given away like candy to everyone, now ISIS has plenty, why not show the tax payers what they are paying for. There are plenty of very good (better than MRAPs) anti mine/ballistic resistant vehicles built and sold all over the world, nothing "secret" here. To compare see Janes Defense, very authoritative.
 
#142
Pusher591 said:
Hahahahahahaha...... Long live the LE haters. It's so funny how y'all give the media such a hard time about using 1 or 2 bad instances involving firearms and the media/left wing to use it for their gun control agenda but then you throw out random instances of LE making mistakes when in reality, LE and SWAT teams execute arrest/search warrants everyday across the US that are well planned/executed and secure valuable information or arrest of HVT criminals.

Again, this is just another thread for LE haters to post in. It's a shame really.
Click to expand...

Hmm. HVT? How very, very militaristic.

High-value target - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My concern is that we all in one way or another will become LVTs, or MVTs, or HVTs, when non-compliance becomes the exercise of what are currently commonly held rights.

:(
 
#143
Veer_G said:
Hmm. HVT? How very, very militaristic.

High-value target - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My concern is that we all in one way or another will become LVTs, or MVTs, or HVTs, when non-compliance becomes the exercise of what are currently commonly held rights.

:(
Click to expand...


Has the military placed a copy right on the term HVT? While the term is used heavily in the military the meaning is the same no matter where its applied.

So are you for the banning of assault weapons since the military uses them? Should civilians not be allowed to buy or wear military fatigues? Does that mean civilians are becoming to militarized? So what I used a word that the military uses, that means all police agencies are being militarized? You're grasping at straws now.

FYI, the term High Value Target has been used before in both military and law enforcement long before this currant war. It may have not been a popular term until now but to insinuate (using a Wikipedia link at that) that the military coined that phrase is silly.
 
Last edited:
#145
Veer_G said:
Hmm. HVT? How very, very militaristic.

High-value target - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My concern is that we all in one way or another will become LVTs, or MVTs, or HVTs, when non-compliance becomes the exercise of what are currently commonly held rights.

:(
Click to expand...

Pusher591 said:
Has the military placed a copy right on the term HVT? While the term is used heavily in the military the meaning is the same no matter where its applied.

So are you for the banning of assault weapons since the military uses them? Should civilians not be allowed to buy or wear military fatigues? Does that mean civilians are becoming to militarized? So what I used a word that the military uses, that means all police agencies are being militarized? You're grasping at straws now.

FYI, the term High Value Target has been used before in both military and law enforcement long before this currant war. It may have not been a popular term until now but to insinuate (using a Wikipedia link at that) that the military coined that phrase is silly.
Click to expand...

Wow. FALLACY MUCH? Have a link: Fallacies

dflcvho.jpg
 
#146
Veer_G said:
Wow. FALLACY MUCH? Have a link: Fallacies

dflcvho.jpg
Click to expand...

Again, my point wasn't to counter Veer, it was to throw out something silly as what you did. Obviously you aren't against gun control or the banning of assault weapons but you get a gold star for knowing how to use the Internet :)

While I'm not completely against conspiracies, the whole government is "taking over" is getting about as old as the zombie apocalypse shit of 2011-2012.

Next time we are on a call out, feel free to bring your moms Kia and extract the suspect for us :)

** In all seriousness, now that I looked at that link its pretty good. Appreciate it.
 
Last edited:
#150
FS1 said:
They are already paid for. So we might as well get some use out of them.

With the state of the world today it seems only a matter of time till someone starts shooting RPG's in the states somewhere.

And Maggot, Govt will never be perfect but they do have the power. When abused that is what courts are for. But I guess you don't like courts either. If you think its effed up work to change it, bitchin won't do anything.
Click to expand...


When abused, that is what the courts are for. Without getting political because I DO NOT want to get booted from this site but courts do no good my friend. You are blind..
 
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