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- Thread starter para72
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Hahahahahahaha...... Long live the LE haters. It's so funny how y'all give the media such a hard time about using 1 or 2 bad instances involving firearms and the media/left wing to use it for their gun control agenda but then you throw out random instances of LE making mistakes when in reality, LE and SWAT teams execute arrest/search warrants everyday across the US that are well planned/executed and secure valuable information or arrest of HVT criminals.
Again, this is just another thread for LE haters to post in. It's a shame really.
Guys is it any different when a cop gets killed? Like it or not, they have a high stress job. They want to make it back home to their wife and kids as well. This whole anarchy movement concerns me more than cops having armored vehicles.
most laws are just one mans idea of how to control another man. If they arent about ways to control you, they are about way to use you to control another person. notice i said MOST lol.
Agreed. It's a shitty stressful job and is sadly, often thankless. That said, I think it's perfectly reasonable to question why it is necessary to have them driving around in military vehicles. Oh wait...RPGs.
Sm, would you call those two incidents intentional?
I think of how many lives have been saved by police use of flash bangs. How many bad guy are still alive because of them also. Its a shitty mistake.
A cop gets a call about an active shooter, or a kid running about with a weapon. Its a split second decision to fire. Id rather the cop shoot, than get gunned down.
Again ,easy for me to say....
I think of how many lives have been saved by police use of flash bangs. How many bad guy are still alive because of them also. Its a shitty mistake.
A cop gets a call about an active shooter, or a kid running about with a weapon. Its a split second decision to fire. Id rather the cop shoot, than get gunned down.
Again ,easy for me to say....
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You like putting words in people's mouths. I think it might be a good thing for the guys who are going in response to one.
I'll respect LE when they loose their GOD COMPLEX! and not a moment sooner.....
Sent from my SCH-I605
Sent from my SCH-I605
Hell, I've changed my thinking on this...We should all have at least one MRAP! My god do it for the children!
I have a high stress, very dangerous job that I just want to make it home from. Not good with stress and danger? don't be a cop.
Horrendous maintenance costs
Proprietary parts
Requires specialized maintenance personnel
Huge target that was not quite designed for urban (close proximity) combat
Has a learning curve to using/driving
I know of at least a few ways of disabling one, practically by myself
What could go wrong?
The use of these as a show of force is probably their main value. If they are actually ever NEEDED, in the type of terrain and areas they would be utilized in (subdivision or city streets, houses and people on practically all sides of you); the vehicle's occupants will quickly find out how much of a bad idea it was to be inside of it.
Proprietary parts
Requires specialized maintenance personnel
Huge target that was not quite designed for urban (close proximity) combat
Has a learning curve to using/driving
I know of at least a few ways of disabling one, practically by myself
What could go wrong?
The use of these as a show of force is probably their main value. If they are actually ever NEEDED, in the type of terrain and areas they would be utilized in (subdivision or city streets, houses and people on practically all sides of you); the vehicle's occupants will quickly find out how much of a bad idea it was to be inside of it.
I don't think that dumb broad who caused the death of 2 people when she stopped to save ducklings intentionally killed those people, but she should still suffer the consequences.
You missed the point completely. My point was that the media uses specific and biased stories to push their agenda. Sane goes for LE haters. They push stories only where LE make mistakes but never mention anything about the other hundreds of incidents that were professionally planned and executed. LE haters are just as narrow minded as any other irrational and immature people in this world and they prove on this forum on a weekly basis.
I mean, check out Smcarrolls post above, really!?!! Name calling already? What happen to discussion or debating.
I tell you what, I'm the first one to admit there are many men/women in law enforcement that are bad apples, but there are MANY MANY more that far out number those bad apples, but no one ever sees their work or sacrifices because its not publicized, as it shouldn't be. I don't do this job for the praise or the glory, I do this job because I'm good at it and because it's a great job to have.
It is what it is, most LE haters can't be reasoned with period, they are very narrow minded and bias. Many will claim I'm bias be a use I'm LE but that's very presumptuous. I feel I can comment and state my opinion because I wasn't LE before I was so I can at least speak from both sides of the fence.
Guys,
Consider that HOW the police arrive to an incident has nothing to do with WHAT they are doing there. It's not like these things are coming equipped with the CROW systems. As Graham pointed out most of the MRAPs, whether it be the RG or MATV, or Buffalo, or whatever are pretty useless for civilan LE and a SWAT team could read a book while they waited for the hydraulic doors to open for them to then jump or climb out of the damn things. My old Bomb Squad would probably jump at one of the EOD variants, but in the end it would be a ton less comfortable or practical than our Bomb Truck which was just a 1 ton truck chassis with a camper body on the back of it for all of our shit.
Where these things will have merit, and can potentially SERVE the public is during natural disasters where the increased height and clearance are needed. My old Dept on the gulf coast had some surplus Deuce and a Halfs that were kept at each of the precincts. When we had severe flooding etc during hurricanes those were our one and only means of getting people out of their homes. We didn't use them to tear down houses or any of that shit, we used them because they were uniquely suited to get where our day-to-day vehicles couldn't get us.
Are some LE Agencies going to paint these things up to look like Rambo's pussy-wagon? Of course they are, but these things have no native weapons systems. They're just big clumsy trucks that would attract so much damn attention on the way to a warrant-service that I'd never try to get one into the shittier neighborhoods. Plus, again as [MENTION=13650]Graham[/MENTION] mentioned, you're as likely to roll the damn thing over as anything else.
Consider that HOW the police arrive to an incident has nothing to do with WHAT they are doing there. It's not like these things are coming equipped with the CROW systems. As Graham pointed out most of the MRAPs, whether it be the RG or MATV, or Buffalo, or whatever are pretty useless for civilan LE and a SWAT team could read a book while they waited for the hydraulic doors to open for them to then jump or climb out of the damn things. My old Bomb Squad would probably jump at one of the EOD variants, but in the end it would be a ton less comfortable or practical than our Bomb Truck which was just a 1 ton truck chassis with a camper body on the back of it for all of our shit.
Where these things will have merit, and can potentially SERVE the public is during natural disasters where the increased height and clearance are needed. My old Dept on the gulf coast had some surplus Deuce and a Halfs that were kept at each of the precincts. When we had severe flooding etc during hurricanes those were our one and only means of getting people out of their homes. We didn't use them to tear down houses or any of that shit, we used them because they were uniquely suited to get where our day-to-day vehicles couldn't get us.
Are some LE Agencies going to paint these things up to look like Rambo's pussy-wagon? Of course they are, but these things have no native weapons systems. They're just big clumsy trucks that would attract so much damn attention on the way to a warrant-service that I'd never try to get one into the shittier neighborhoods. Plus, again as [MENTION=13650]Graham[/MENTION] mentioned, you're as likely to roll the damn thing over as anything else.
Fair enough, Im sorry you had to experience that. No harm no foul though. We will just have to agree to disagree
"Rambo's pussy-wagon" This is fucking epic!
I get what you're saying but that seems like a tremendous waste for a very specific mission. Secondly, it doesn't do any favors for LE in the PR department. Finally, it is still a military vehicle and really has no place in local law enforcement.
I get what you're saying but that seems like a tremendous waste for a very specific mission. Secondly, it doesn't do any favors for LE in the PR department. Finally, it is still a military vehicle and really has no place in local law enforcement.
Fair enough, Im sorry you had to experience that. No harm no foul though. We will just have to agree to disagree
I do not hate all cops, it just pisses me off that there seems to be an upward trend in killing innocents and not having consequences. Its a big fucking mess we have here, arming the cops with military grade hardware isn't the solution.
What kind of man doesn't say BADASS when Rambo's pussy-wagon rolls by? The kind of man I don't want to meet I say.
I agree with your statement BUT, it's like peacefull muslums saying not ALL muslums are bad. You rarely see "good" muslums in the media speaking out against terroism just the same as not seeing good peace officers in the in the media speaking out against the bad ones. Muslums and cops are kind of the same in that respect. Neither speak out against the minority of individuals who make their own group look bad. They protect the image of the group.
Flames away.
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Lets put it this way.
I dont hate cops. I have some friends who are cops.
I hate criminals. When cops become criminals and get away with it.....
Well, I hope you get the drift.
600? That doesn't seem like a big deal, when spread out over 50 states, however; this does:
DHS buys new MRAP Armored Vehicles for use in the U.S
)March 5, 2013 in Preparedness
DHS buys new MRAP Armored Vehicles for use in the U.S
The Department of Homeland Security (through the U.S. Army Forces Command) recently retrofitted 2,717 of these ‘Mine Resistant Protected’ vehicles for service on the streets of the United States.
Vehicle details:
V-shaped hull to deflect IED blasts away from the vehicle
Vehicle can be fitted with add-on armor
Protection against direct fire and RPG rounds
Vehicle is powered by an International MaxxForce D9.3I6 diesel engine
The MaxxPro MRAP is built to withstand ballistic arms fire, mine blasts, IEDs, and other emerging threats. Its V-shaped hull helps deflect blasts out and away from the crew and its armoring can be customized to meet any mission requirement
MaxxPro means maximum protection.
Download the Spec Sheet
Compare Models
Browse All Models
Of the nearly 9,000 delivered MaxxPro units to the military, the Department of Homeland Security is apparently taking delivery (apparently through the Marine Corps Systems Command, Quantico VA, via the manufacturer – Navistar Defense LLC) of an undetermined number of the recently retrofitted 2,717 ‘Mine Resistant Protected’ MaxxPro MRAP vehicles for service on the streets of the United States.
DHS buys new MRAP Armored Vehicles for use in the U.S
)March 5, 2013 in Preparedness
DHS buys new MRAP Armored Vehicles for use in the U.S
The Department of Homeland Security (through the U.S. Army Forces Command) recently retrofitted 2,717 of these ‘Mine Resistant Protected’ vehicles for service on the streets of the United States.
Vehicle details:
V-shaped hull to deflect IED blasts away from the vehicleVehicle can be fitted with add-on armorProtection against direct fire and RPG roundsVehicle is powered by an International MaxxForce D9.3I6 diesel engineThe MaxxPro MRAP is built to withstand ballistic arms fire, mine blasts, IEDs, and other emerging threats. Its V-shaped hull helps deflect blasts out and away from the crew and its armoring can be customized to meet any mission requirement
MaxxPro means maximum protection.
Download the Spec SheetCompare ModelsBrowse All ModelsOf the nearly 9,000 delivered MaxxPro units to the military, the Department of Homeland Security is apparently taking delivery (apparently through the Marine Corps Systems Command, Quantico VA, via the manufacturer – Navistar Defense LLC) of an undetermined number of the recently retrofitted 2,717 ‘Mine Resistant Protected’ MaxxPro MRAP vehicles for service on the streets of the United States.
Receiving some armored protection » Top News » The Herald Banner, Greenville, TX
greenville, texas needs an armored vehicle for meth-heads :/
greenville, texas needs an armored vehicle for meth-heads :/
It may be necessary as I don't see any other way I could get my hands on one should the need arise. On August 30, 2005 I got hold of a Harbor Police rib to pluck two relatives from misery in the aftermath of hurricane Katrina.
I am unsure how to feel about it. The escalation of violence by criminals these days almost makes it mandatory for police departments to upgrade their gear. Do I believe every police dept in the country needs this? No not really but in some cases it might be warranted, but the unfortunate circumstance is that even if it is purchased with the best intentions usually 1 or 2 bad apples abuse it and make the whole dept. look bad. That being said I don't believe that local PDs are going to turn into Federal lackey shock troops overnight and start going door to door and taking our women and children, at least not yet. LOL
I wish my local PD had better cars (starting with a good chase car), some decent NV, better pay, better rain gear, the funding to attend any number of classes, and lots of other things. But I do not wish they had an MRAP because it is a waste of money. I have seen some amazing police work in more than one city and country and absolutely zero of it involved the sort of phallus that the MRAP represents. It was accomplished by smart men and women who were dedicated and had strong ties to the community at hand. It was not because they chose to make an outrageous spectacle of themselves.
To download the Spec Sheet, go to Navistar Defense. These have been given away like candy to everyone, now ISIS has plenty, why not show the tax payers what they are paying for. There are plenty of very good (better than MRAPs) anti mine/ballistic resistant vehicles built and sold all over the world, nothing "secret" here. To compare see Janes Defense, very authoritative."
If these are going to our military and you can 'download a spec sheet', that's crazy.
Hmm. HVT? How very, very militaristic.
High-value target - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
My concern is that we all in one way or another will become LVTs, or MVTs, or HVTs, when non-compliance becomes the exercise of what are currently commonly held rights.
Hmm. HVT? How very, very militaristic.
High-value target - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
My concern is that we all in one way or another will become LVTs, or MVTs, or HVTs, when non-compliance becomes the exercise of what are currently commonly held rights.
Has the military placed a copy right on the term HVT? While the term is used heavily in the military the meaning is the same no matter where its applied.
So are you for the banning of assault weapons since the military uses them? Should civilians not be allowed to buy or wear military fatigues? Does that mean civilians are becoming to militarized? So what I used a word that the military uses, that means all police agencies are being militarized? You're grasping at straws now.
FYI, the term High Value Target has been used before in both military and law enforcement long before this currant war. It may have not been a popular term until now but to insinuate (using a Wikipedia link at that) that the military coined that phrase is silly.
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I shot an IDPA match with a guy involved in training a state LE agency. He told me he took a class at Blackwater and they drilled shooting while rappelling from a helicopter. He was like, "Yeah I'll never have to do that, but it sure was fun".
Hmm. HVT? How very, very militaristic.
High-value target - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
My concern is that we all in one way or another will become LVTs, or MVTs, or HVTs, when non-compliance becomes the exercise of what are currently commonly held rights.
Wow. FALLACY MUCH? Have a link: Fallacies
Again, my point wasn't to counter Veer, it was to throw out something silly as what you did. Obviously you aren't against gun control or the banning of assault weapons but you get a gold star for knowing how to use the Internet
While I'm not completely against conspiracies, the whole government is "taking over" is getting about as old as the zombie apocalypse shit of 2011-2012.
Next time we are on a call out, feel free to bring your moms Kia and extract the suspect for us
** In all seriousness, now that I looked at that link its pretty good. Appreciate it.
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