Is that all you came away with? Why am I not surprised?
So what should be the limit to the firepower that LEOs should have?
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Create a channel Learn moreIs that all you came away with? Why am I not surprised?
It should mirror what's being used by criminals to commit crimes. The protection afforded should meet the risk level out there.
ETA: I take that back, it should be a level higher than what the bad guys use.
Three weapons, a 45, a 12 gauge and patience. No need to do home invasions Waco style, just wait for these scumbags to come outside then take them down at a opportune time and place.
Still don't understand the urge of LE to run into a confined space and shoot it out in a smokey confused room.
I'm not following the whole RPG gag but no, I don't think those are in order. My answer is, whatever tools are necessary to do the job safely and effectively. I don't see how me having a FA M4 and getting to the job in a Bearcat is a violation of anyone's rights.
Do you think we should go back to 8 point hats and six shooters?
I'm curious what your interpretation of how it should be is.
I think I stated it above but you accused me of not giving a serious answer. I admittedly have a permanent case of the fuckarounds but what I said before was how I feel. Sorry, that's as serious as I get on the Interwebs. Besides it's always good to interject a little levity into these discussions before we all take ourselves too seriously.
I understand about comic relief and all but I kinda stopped reading at frag grenades and nukes.
I would also toss in some type of AR in that mix along with the other 3. Sometimes it's feasible to catch the guy as he's going to the bodega. Other times, attempting an apprehension in public would put people at risk. These things are done daily across the country and most often then not, they are resolved without a shot being fired or any violence at all. But like with everything else in life, clusterfucks happen. Doesn't make it okay, but when dealing with humans, mistakes are bound to be made.
Again, where is the outrage against doctors in America killing hundreds of thousands a year?
Regardless it all boils down to this, if you didn't have asshole, cock sucking scumbag citizens, then you wouldn't have asshole, cock sucking scumbag cops. If folks didn't feel a need to rape, rob, pillage and murder each other, there wouldn't be a need for LE. Start behaving like humans and we'll go away.
With the general shitsad marksmanship of our cops I would limit the AR's and give them a Rem 700 SPS Tactical bolt gun. As far as putting the public at risk, swat teams dressed in their Ninja outfits are shooting the hell out of the wrong people and pets already. I think the tempo of these operations needs to slow down a bit, the cost of one MRAP pays for a lot of overtime. Doctors are sued and lose their license, the blue wall makes that dam near impossible to do the same with cops.
damn. i was really trying to stay out of this but fucking seriously? After all the times ive read you saying about how cops are crucified and is not a fair representation i started to think that maybe you were one of the sensible ones. Then that one fucking statement tells me loads. You apparently belive we arent human and you're necessary to keep us in line. Gotcha. Here smy opinion. Cops are civil servants. I think the only eason we have so many is becuase we keep making up more shit to be illegal and departments push the fear so that they can get more funding. I got nothing against an honest man trying to help others. Noble as fuck considering the pay. But as soon as i hear an officer start that line of BS up there... well, theres not much more to talk about. HUA is full swing.
Reposting and trying to be serious...kinda.
Equipment:
Rifles
Pistols
Shotguns
Body armor
Squad cars/trucks
Radios
Medical gear
Rain gear
Road flares
Not needed:
Military vehicles
Ninja masks
Full auto firearms
Personality:
Sense of service
Respect for the law & due process
Humility
Humor
Understanding that they are civil servants (civilians) and not military
Respect for their sworn oath to the people they serve
Most importantly, how about better pay, benefits, and more cops.
I still say donuts...hell who doesn't like donuts. Every job should come with a perk or two.
Sorry but the truth is usually hard to swallow. If if weren't for disease, you wouldn't need doctors. If it weren't for wars you wouldn't need a military. If it weren't for a leaky roof you wouldn't need a roofer. Blown head gasket... mechanic. Get my drift? It has nothing to do with people not being human (although given some of the shit people are capable of doing to one another, kinda makes you wonder) or needing to be kept in line. Its not about me being any better than anyone else. It just is. I can't really explain it any better. There are shitty people in life and therefore there is a need for LE and out of that group like with any other group you're gonna have shitty ones.
Slap you make it seem like all cops are like dirty Harry, its rare any cop is ever involved in a shoot out(thank god) let alone as many a s it would take to get good at it. Our cops suck at shooting, wonder the amount of rounds expended vs hits, its not their fault , they dont train enough for various reasons, budget, laziness, very low requirements in many departments etc etc. A bolt gun with a 6x would slow them down a bit and get them in the groove to hit their target, with some training.
Found this an interesting read, dont know the guy or if he has a anti cop agenda but some decent stats. I gotta ask why the FBI doesnt keep stats on the police involved shootings.
Jim Fisher True Crime: Police Involved Shooting Statistics: A National One-Year Summary
its only truth if your an egomaniac. Its not the "truth" of realizing that some people do a specific job that bothers me. thats mostly obvious. Its the "truth" that you consider yourslf seperate from those you police. At least thats the tone im interpreting. I dont like rapist and murderers any more than the next guy, but really? because those people exist we need you? No, mankind has existed for thousands of years without a "police" force. And until the last 30 years or so the police were a far different creature. People would be more supportive of police as a profession if they said shit like that a little less often... Being a "Merican" it kind of riles me up to hear that attitude. It makes me think of policticians. To be blunt, i dont need you, i dont need them. All i really need is to be left alone to enjoy my life. You are not going to stop my family from being killed from a terrorist or gang memeber,. You might catch someone after the fact but that wont bring my family back. Frankly, i think your us vs them mentality and the escalation of the drug war has put me in much more danger than any allah loving terrorist has. Im fairly certain that it was with the creation of the miami vice tv show that shit started getting crazy. Also, in response to your other message saying police should have same things as the gang bangers and shit.... Isnt this like force escalation in reverse? maybe gang bangers and other "criminal de jour" wouldnt feel the need to have ak's if police didnt have fucking tanks... force works both ways.
im not arguing, im discussing from a different point of view. well, i asnt argiung but now lol... but, im not one of you so i couldnt possibly understand what truth is right? Sure am glad i have a hero keeping me safe in this cruel cruel world. See what i mean, the whole approach is negative and necessarily divides police from non police. I am glad to have people like me serving the community, up until the point when they think they are different.. all animals were craeted equal, but some more equal than others i guess.I'm not going to argue with you dude cause I see that there is no point in doing so. We both know the truth, whether you like it or not.
I think its like 10000 per kia, but thats a different mission, not to serve and protect as much as get their heads down, maneuver , close and kill. Two different tasks. I got the impression you were implying that cops are good at returning fire when bullets were flying, like you stated above, its just not true, understandably.
im not arguing, im discussing from a different point of view. well, i asnt argiung but now lol... but, im not one of you so i couldnt possibly understand what truth is right? Sure am glad i have a hero keeping me safe in this cruel cruel world. See what i mean, the whole approach is negative and necessarily divides police from non police. I am glad to have people like me serving the community, up until the point when they think they are different.. all animals were craeted equal, but some more equal than others i guess.
Three weapons, a 45, a 12 gauge and patience. No need to do home invasions Waco style, just wait for these scumbags to come outside then take them down at a opportune time and place.
Still don't understand the urge of LE to run into a confined space and shoot it out in a smokey confused room.
Not a hero and far from being an egomaniac but I'm fairly certain that throughout my career, there are one or two people who will come up to you and attest that they were glad I was in a certain place at a certain time. The need is there whether you want to accept it or not. To think otherwise is just showing how naive you are.
man. i must really be fucking up my english. so i am going to try this one last time. I admit, that my statements could have been inflammatory as well. My issue with your statement sir, is not whether police are actually necessary. It is with the attitude that they are seperate somehow and have a growing us vs them mentality. Once people with power see themselves as seperate they tend to be dangerous. You expressed that mentality, hence my issue. Im not naive, nor are you. But you are being willfully blind to my point or are uncapable of seperating your self importance. I am sure some people were glad you were there as an officer. But isnt that true of every profession? I remember seeing people glad to see me at certain times also, that didnt make me better than them. In fact it was the exact opposite feeling the bred empathy and made me want to help them, not rule over them and think of them as weak. Theres no need to downplay my intelligence or rationality. At least not without using a mirror and being honest with yourself also.
This is the most uneducated and ignorant comment in this entire thread.
I've never said I was better than anyone nor do I think of myself as a "ruler of people". If that is what you got from my posts then I'm sorry, I should have worded them better. I didn't try to downplay your intelligence but you did come across as being unreasonable in your thinking at first. Think I gotcha now.
NO, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^This is.
Maybe since this:::::::At Washington state’s King County Sheriff’s Offices a 19 year veteran was accused of prostituting his wife, theft, and dealing drugs.
___________________________________________________________________________________
View attachment 41538
In a surprisingly rare turn of events an internal investigation actually discovered wrong doing. But the real question is, will it result in anything of substance?
At Washington state’s King County Sheriff’s Offices a 19 year veteran was accused of prostituting his wife, theft, and dealing drugs.
Records show Darrion Keith Holiwell, 49, was booked into King County Jail on Thursday morning on charges of promoting prostitution, theft and a drug violation after he became the subject of the investigation while on paid leave.
During a press conference Sheriff John Urquhart discussed the departments embarrassing discovery.
Despite Holiwell and his wife going through a bitter divorce, Urquhart confirmed that Holiwell had been pimping his wife out on Backpage.com.
Staying true to his ‘pimphood’ Holiwell kept 80 percent of his ex-wife’s earnings, for ‘protection’ of course.
Holiwell served as her protector when she worked as an escort. She even took pictures of her client’s driver’s licenses and would send them to Holiwell.
The investigation revealed that the massive, tattoed Holiwell, not only took steroids, but was dealing them to other SWAT deputies on the force, as well as people outside the agency.
Urquhart says he’s not going to try and prove any of the SWAT team allegations because they need the 20-member team to remain intact for now.
Apparently there are so many other folks to bust for drugs, that they cannot possibly bust themselves yet.
According to the NY Daily News, the investigators also unearthed a slush fund managed by Holiwell to sell between $45,000-50,000 in ammunition brass to local gun shops. They say he stole the brass from the agency’s firing range and used the profits to trick out weapons for the SWAT team.
The gun-obsessed deputy, who’s a nationally competing match shooter, allegedly brought customers of his side business, Praetor Defense, to the sheriff’s range to practice using county equipment.
“What we’re dealing with is police corruption,” Urquhart said at the press conference. “I’m on a witch hunt to root out that kind of behavior.”
This “witch hunt” however, somehow failed to prosecute the SWAT members who bought drugs. It also failed to charge Holiwell for the theft of the brass, as Urquhart says he “has no desire to stack charges.”
Read more at Drug Dealing Cop Sold Steroids to SWAT, While Pimping Out His Wife | The Free Thought Project
Slap, I do believe that he is speaking generically of the police. He's not the only one that sees this. In fact it is the basis of what the entire thead is about. The Us vs Them mentality. I see it all the time. If you cannot see what the rest, or most of us see, perhaps your vision is clouded.
Maggot, you were never really a source to be taken seriously
You can link/copy and paste bad cop stories till you're blue in the face but the numbers still pale in comparison to the amount of bad Maggots are out there.
And you think your taken seriously. I try to give you some constructive thought and all you do is reply in your typical, arrogant, copsucking, manner. You used to, or still do, have an alcohol problem, dont you? Go crawl back into your bottle. things will look better from there...til someone breaks it, and you in the process. To paraphrase Gunfighter, "If you pay someone to be a stupid, lazy, donut eating, dipshit, he wont disappoint you.
Cuz Texas is BIG and we got crazy people!
I've never said I was better than anyone nor do I think of myself as a "ruler of people". If that is what you got from my posts then I'm sorry, I should have worded them better. I didn't try to downplay your intelligence but you did come across as being unreasonable in your thinking at first. Think I gotcha now.
Post, link or quote a reputable source.
How is that all you need to know, that's even more ignorant then the comment you made before. Is there any stipulations to the circumstances regarding the Americans killed by police? Are you telling me that all or most of those Americans killed by police were unjust and the investigation was corrupt? Is there any time frame stipulations? Are you comparing statistics for 12 year old war to statistics to the last 50, 40, 30, 20, 10 years of civilians being killed by police force nationally?
See why that's not "all you need to know"?
Your just throwing out random "facts" but there is no justification. Again, your just another LE hater that jumps on the band wagon when these threads pop up, it shows in your many other posts regarding the same subject.
Judging from your diatribe, I have to surmise that a nerve has been struck. You mean to tell me that you were serious this whole time? I just figured that you liked being the source of ridicule. My bad bruh!
Don't mind me, just crawling back into my bottle.
@ SM & Black, I couldn't agree more! But I don't see a way to have perfect police. They are ppl that I choose to trust because most are good ppl trying to protect & serve. They NEED the tools to deal with all threats (imo) because we as a society have those that would prey on the weak. Its a trade off but i don't see how we change the real problem, the scum that make cops a necessary evil.
NO, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^This is.
Maybe since this:::::::At Washington state’s King County Sheriff’s Offices a 19 year veteran was accused of prostituting his wife, theft, and dealing drugs.
___________________________________________________________________________________
View attachment 41538
In a surprisingly rare turn of events an internal investigation actually discovered wrong doing. But the real question is, will it result in anything of substance?
At Washington state’s King County Sheriff’s Offices a 19 year veteran was accused of prostituting his wife, theft, and dealing drugs.
Records show Darrion Keith Holiwell, 49, was booked into King County Jail on Thursday morning on charges of promoting prostitution, theft and a drug violation after he became the subject of the investigation while on paid leave.
During a press conference Sheriff John Urquhart discussed the departments embarrassing discovery.
Despite Holiwell and his wife going through a bitter divorce, Urquhart confirmed that Holiwell had been pimping his wife out on Backpage.com.
Staying true to his ‘pimphood’ Holiwell kept 80 percent of his ex-wife’s earnings, for ‘protection’ of course.
Holiwell served as her protector when she worked as an escort. She even took pictures of her client’s driver’s licenses and would send them to Holiwell.
The investigation revealed that the massive, tattoed Holiwell, not only took steroids, but was dealing them to other SWAT deputies on the force, as well as people outside the agency.
Urquhart says he’s not going to try and prove any of the SWAT team allegations because they need the 20-member team to remain intact for now.
Apparently there are so many other folks to bust for drugs, that they cannot possibly bust themselves yet.
According to the NY Daily News, the investigators also unearthed a slush fund managed by Holiwell to sell between $45,000-50,000 in ammunition brass to local gun shops. They say he stole the brass from the agency’s firing range and used the profits to trick out weapons for the SWAT team.
The gun-obsessed deputy, who’s a nationally competing match shooter, allegedly brought customers of his side business, Praetor Defense, to the sheriff’s range to practice using county equipment.
“What we’re dealing with is police corruption,” Urquhart said at the press conference. “I’m on a witch hunt to root out that kind of behavior.”
This “witch hunt” however, somehow failed to prosecute the SWAT members who bought drugs. It also failed to charge Holiwell for the theft of the brass, as Urquhart says he “has no desire to stack charges.”
Read more at Drug Dealing Cop Sold Steroids to SWAT, While Pimping Out His Wife | The Free Thought Project
I did not hate law enforcement until I worked for them. I don't hate all law enforcement. I did however quit after seeing just how terrible the system was. The abuse I saw was one reason I did not stick around. I wont name the department or the people, however. I remember dispatchers sharing videos of a drunk girl who was dancing naked in her cell. Through an email to the entire department. I remember a guy bashing someone's head on the hood of the cruiser. I remember an officer elbowing a handcuffed homeless guy he was taking in for trespassing at the hospital. Telling him that he was a pos, and should learn to stay away from good people. BTW the IA guys looked at "every arrest" and watched the video from "every stop". They would just laugh and share the videos among each other. One of the detectives hit a homeless guy, when he was texting on his phone. I can tell you more stories just like it from that department. The abuse, and power trip was outrageous. I left because I wanted no part in it.
Pusher,
That cuts both ways. My experience with LE started as me being a dumb kid dealing with local cops that were total dickheads. I've had them search my truck w/o consent, I was even threatened when I challenged it. I learned from them that they are not to be trusted and to just go ahead and treat them like the scum they are. Then one day me being stupid and going too fast (btw, NO 18y/o should have a z28!) I get stopped by a state trooper. I started of being a real dick to him. He was very professional and courteous. I changed my tone and regretted the way I acted. That one positive experience has changed the way I interact w/ LE. I start out giving the benefit of the doubt.
*** Just so everyone is crystal clear, I DO BELEIVE there are bad police out here, I have worked with some and I know many that are still employed (they will have their day one day) but my main point is, the good far out number the bad, and many here refuse to acknowledge that.
That's my attitude as well. I love interacting with the public, and I try to give everybody a fair and respectful encounter but I will reciprocate what I get. Also, when it comes to searches or tickets, its nothing personal, just part of the job. So many people take it personal, that because we ask to search we think they are a dope dealer. They assume that, drug dealers have a certain look them and how dare we ask to search unless we think they deal dope. Many police do take it personal and that's the ones that need weeding. Problem with that usually is politics start coming into play, and whether it be police, fire, trash men, UPS, FedEx,Lawn Care service, De-Bo's Chicken and Waffles there will always be politics that are just out of the officers hands. Only thing I can do is continue with my work ethic and surround myself with people I trust and continue to train the new guys to have the same positive and ethical attitude.
"Americans Killed by Cops Now Outnumber Americans Killed in Iraq War" All you need to know.