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- Thread starter para72
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Three weapons, a 45, a 12 gauge and patience. No need to do home invasions Waco style, just wait for these scumbags to come outside then take them down at a opportune time and place.
Still don't understand the urge of LE to run into a confined space and shoot it out in a smokey confused room.
Still don't understand the urge of LE to run into a confined space and shoot it out in a smokey confused room.
OK so FS1 would say that you need RPGs or better. Really, you see the problem with that statement right? I'm not trying to be a dick (to you anyway
) but that's just not an answer.I'm not following the whole RPG gag but no, I don't think those are in order. My answer is, whatever tools are necessary to do the job safely and effectively. I don't see how me having a FA M4 and getting to the job in a Bearcat is a violation of anyone's rights.
Do you think we should go back to 8 point hats and six shooters?
Do you think we should go back to 8 point hats and six shooters?
I would also toss in some type of AR in that mix along with the other 3. Sometimes it's feasible to catch the guy as he's going to the bodega. Other times, attempting an apprehension in public would put people at risk. These things are done daily across the country and most often then not, they are resolved without a shot being fired or any violence at all. But like with everything else in life, clusterfucks happen. Doesn't make it okay, but when dealing with humans, mistakes are bound to be made.
Again, where is the outrage against doctors in America killing hundreds of thousands a year?
Just poking a little fun at FS1 with the RPG comment. The problem is "whatever tools are necessary to do the job safely and effectively" is pretty open to interpretation.
No, but I do think y'all were snappier dressers back then LOL.
I think I stated it above but you accused me of not giving a serious answer. I admittedly have a permanent case of the fuckarounds but what I said before was how I feel. Sorry, that's as serious as I get on the Interwebs. Besides it's always good to interject a little levity into these discussions before we all take ourselves too seriously.
I understand about comic relief and all but I kinda stopped reading at frag grenades and nukes.
With the general shitsad marksmanship of our cops I would limit the AR's and give them a Rem 700 SPS Tactical bolt gun. As far as putting the public at risk, swat teams dressed in their Ninja outfits are shooting the hell out of the wrong people and pets already. I think the tempo of these operations needs to slow down a bit, the cost of one MRAP pays for a lot of overtime. Doctors are sued and lose their license, the blue wall makes that dam near impossible to do the same with cops.
Reposting and trying to be serious...kinda.
Equipment:
Rifles
Pistols
Shotguns
Body armor
Squad cars/trucks
Radios
Medical gear
Rain gear
Road flares
Not needed:
Military vehicles
Ninja masks
Full auto firearms
Personality:
Sense of service
Respect for the law & due process
Humility
Humor
Understanding that they are civil servants (civilians) and not military
Respect for their sworn oath to the people they serve
Most importantly, how about better pay, benefits, and more cops.
I still say donuts...hell who doesn't like donuts. Every job should come with a perk or two.
Equipment:
Rifles
Pistols
Shotguns
Body armor
Squad cars/trucks
Radios
Medical gear
Rain gear
Road flares
Not needed:
Military vehicles
Ninja masks
Full auto firearms
Personality:
Sense of service
Respect for the law & due process
Humility
Humor
Understanding that they are civil servants (civilians) and not military
Respect for their sworn oath to the people they serve
Most importantly, how about better pay, benefits, and more cops.
I still say donuts...hell who doesn't like donuts. Every job should come with a perk or two.
damn. i was really trying to stay out of this but fucking seriously? After all the times ive read you saying about how cops are crucified and is not a fair representation i started to think that maybe you were one of the sensible ones. Then that one fucking statement tells me loads. You apparently belive we arent human and you're necessary to keep us in line. Gotcha. Here smy opinion. Cops are civil servants. I think the only eason we have so many is becuase we keep making up more shit to be illegal and departments push the fear so that they can get more funding. I got nothing against an honest man trying to help others. Noble as fuck considering the pay. But as soon as i hear an officer start that line of BS up there... well, theres not much more to talk about. HUA is full swing.
This is about as uninformed as it gets. There is no "blue wall" cops get jammed up and lose their jobs ALL the time for offenses as petty as posting the wrong thing on social media. Not sure what swat teams are shooting who but okay. What's a "ninja outfit"? And shitty marksmanship as compared to whom? It's easy to shoot at paper in a stress free environment. Quite different when someone is trying to take your life. I often wonder on average how many rounds does it take an army grunt before he is able to put down his target.
Sorry but the truth is usually hard to swallow. If if weren't for disease, you wouldn't need doctors. If it weren't for wars you wouldn't need a military. If it weren't for a leaky roof you wouldn't need a roofer. Blown head gasket... mechanic. Get my drift? It has nothing to do with people not being human (although given some of the shit people are capable of doing to one another, kinda makes you wonder) or needing to be kept in line. Its not about me being any better than anyone else. It just is. I can't really explain it any better. There are shitty people in life and therefore there is a need for LE and out of that group like with any other group you're gonna have shitty ones.
I can't say I disagree with this too much. I really can't. I would add some type of armored vehicle to the "should have" list. And the Ninja masks are really helpful when you're standing a traffic post and the temps are in the low teens.
Slap you make it seem like all cops are like dirty Harry, its rare any cop is ever involved in a shoot out(thank god) let alone as many a s it would take to get good at it. Our cops suck at shooting, wonder the amount of rounds expended vs hits, its not their fault , they dont train enough for various reasons, budget, laziness, very low requirements in many departments etc etc. A bolt gun with a 6x would slow them down a bit and get them in the groove to hit their target, with some training.
Found this an interesting read, dont know the guy or if he has a anti cop agenda but some decent stats. I gotta ask why the FBI doesnt keep stats on the police involved shootings.
Jim Fisher True Crime: Police Involved Shooting Statistics: A National One-Year Summary
Found this an interesting read, dont know the guy or if he has a anti cop agenda but some decent stats. I gotta ask why the FBI doesnt keep stats on the police involved shootings.
Jim Fisher True Crime: Police Involved Shooting Statistics: A National One-Year Summary
its only truth if your an egomaniac. Its not the "truth" of realizing that some people do a specific job that bothers me. thats mostly obvious. Its the "truth" that you consider yourslf seperate from those you police. At least thats the tone im interpreting. I dont like rapist and murderers any more than the next guy, but really? because those people exist we need you? No, mankind has existed for thousands of years without a "police" force. And until the last 30 years or so the police were a far different creature. People would be more supportive of police as a profession if they said shit like that a little less often... Being a "Merican" it kind of riles me up to hear that attitude. It makes me think of policticians. To be blunt, i dont need you, i dont need them. All i really need is to be left alone to enjoy my life. You are not going to stop my family from being killed from a terrorist or gang memeber,. You might catch someone after the fact but that wont bring my family back. Frankly, i think your us vs them mentality and the escalation of the drug war has put me in much more danger than any allah loving terrorist has. Im fairly certain that it was with the creation of the miami vice tv show that shit started getting crazy. Also, in response to your other message saying police should have same things as the gang bangers and shit.... Isnt this like force escalation in reverse? maybe gang bangers and other "criminal de jour" wouldnt feel the need to have ak's if police didnt have fucking tanks... force works both ways.
Where in any of my posts do I make it seem like cops are like Dirty Harry? Not sure where you got that but you're right, its rare that cops ever have to use their sidearms and that is a good thing on several levels. Still wondering what the rounds expended to hit ratio is for an average military grunt is. Maybe you can dig up some stats on that.
I'm not going to argue with you dude cause I see that there is no point in doing so. We both know the truth, whether you like it or not.
I think its like 10000 per kia, but thats a different mission, not to serve and protect as much as get their heads down, maneuver , close and kill. Two different tasks. I got the impression you were implying that cops are good at returning fire when bullets were flying, like you stated above, its just not true, understandably.
im not arguing, im discussing from a different point of view. well, i asnt argiung but now lol... but, im not one of you so i couldnt possibly understand what truth is right? Sure am glad i have a hero keeping me safe in this cruel cruel world. See what i mean, the whole approach is negative and necessarily divides police from non police. I am glad to have people like me serving the community, up until the point when they think they are different.. all animals were craeted equal, but some more equal than others i guess.
Thanks for answering and yes it is a different mission but the root core (self preservation) is the same. And no, I wasn't stating that cops are good at returning fire. Not in the least. Very few people are.
Not a hero and far from being an egomaniac but I'm fairly certain that throughout my career, there are one or two people who will come up to you and attest that they were glad I was in a certain place at a certain time. The need is there whether you want to accept it or not. To think otherwise is just showing how naive you are.
Totally agree with you. Beyond foolish, just another power trip and totally Unnecessary.
man. i must really be fucking up my english. so i am going to try this one last time. I admit, that my statements could have been inflammatory as well. My issue with your statement sir, is not whether police are actually necessary. It is with the attitude that they are seperate somehow and have a growing us vs them mentality. Once people with power see themselves as seperate they tend to be dangerous. You expressed that mentality, hence my issue. Im not naive, nor are you. But you are being willfully blind to my point or are uncapable of seperating your self importance. I am sure some people were glad you were there as an officer. But isnt that true of every profession? I remember seeing people glad to see me at certain times also, that didnt make me better than them. In fact it was the exact opposite feeling the bred empathy and made me want to help them, not rule over them and think of them as weak. Theres no need to downplay my intelligence or rationality. At least not without using a mirror and being honest with yourself also.
I've never said I was better than anyone nor do I think of myself as a "ruler of people". If that is what you got from my posts then I'm sorry, I should have worded them better. I didn't try to downplay your intelligence but you did come across as being unreasonable in your thinking at first. Think I gotcha now.
NO, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^This is.
Maybe since this:::::::At Washington state’s King County Sheriff’s Offices a 19 year veteran was accused of prostituting his wife, theft, and dealing drugs.
___________________________________________________________________________________
View attachment 41538
In a surprisingly rare turn of events an internal investigation actually discovered wrong doing. But the real question is, will it result in anything of substance?
At Washington state’s King County Sheriff’s Offices a 19 year veteran was accused of prostituting his wife, theft, and dealing drugs.
Records show Darrion Keith Holiwell, 49, was booked into King County Jail on Thursday morning on charges of promoting prostitution, theft and a drug violation after he became the subject of the investigation while on paid leave.
During a press conference Sheriff John Urquhart discussed the departments embarrassing discovery.
Despite Holiwell and his wife going through a bitter divorce, Urquhart confirmed that Holiwell had been pimping his wife out on Backpage.com.
Staying true to his ‘pimphood’ Holiwell kept 80 percent of his ex-wife’s earnings, for ‘protection’ of course.
Holiwell served as her protector when she worked as an escort. She even took pictures of her client’s driver’s licenses and would send them to Holiwell.
The investigation revealed that the massive, tattoed Holiwell, not only took steroids, but was dealing them to other SWAT deputies on the force, as well as people outside the agency.
Urquhart says he’s not going to try and prove any of the SWAT team allegations because they need the 20-member team to remain intact for now.
Apparently there are so many other folks to bust for drugs, that they cannot possibly bust themselves yet.
According to the NY Daily News, the investigators also unearthed a slush fund managed by Holiwell to sell between $45,000-50,000 in ammunition brass to local gun shops. They say he stole the brass from the agency’s firing range and used the profits to trick out weapons for the SWAT team.
The gun-obsessed deputy, who’s a nationally competing match shooter, allegedly brought customers of his side business, Praetor Defense, to the sheriff’s range to practice using county equipment.
“What we’re dealing with is police corruption,” Urquhart said at the press conference. “I’m on a witch hunt to root out that kind of behavior.”
This “witch hunt” however, somehow failed to prosecute the SWAT members who bought drugs. It also failed to charge Holiwell for the theft of the brass, as Urquhart says he “has no desire to stack charges.”
Read more at Drug Dealing Cop Sold Steroids to SWAT, While Pimping Out His Wife | The Free Thought Project
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Slap, I do believe that he is speaking generically of the police. He's not the only one that sees this. In fact it is the basis of what the entire thead is about. The Us vs Them mentality. I see it all the time. If you cannot see what the rest, or most of us see, perhaps your vision is clouded.
Maggot, you were never really a source to be taken seriously but lately you've taken a turn for the worse, if that is even possible. The very vocal minority here in no way shape or form represents "the rest or most".
You can link/copy and paste bad cop stories till you're blue in the face but the numbers still pale in comparison to the amount of bad Maggots are out there.
And you think your taken seriously. I try to give you some constructive thought and all you do is reply in your typical, arrogant, copsucking, manner. You used to, or still do, have an alcohol problem, dont you? Go crawl back into your bottle. things will look better from there...til someone breaks it, and you in the process. To paraphrase Gunfighter, "If you pay someone to be a stupid, lazy, donut eating, dipshit, he wont disappoint you.
Judging from your diatribe, I have to surmise that a nerve has been struck. You mean to tell me that you were serious this whole time? I just figured that you liked being the source of ridicule. My bad bruh!
Don't mind me, just crawling back into my bottle.
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there is no need for things like this in the hands of local law enforcement..
I know I'm late to the party here but i have not read one study or bit of information that says there has been an increase in violent crimes. As a matter of fact every thing that i have seen says that over the last 20 years violent crime in general has decreased. So if violent crime is decreasing than why is the absolute show of force so drastically increasing?
Is it possible that the extra fire power and armored cars is gearing up for a round up of fire arms from law abiding citizens? in the near future?
I would think that if i were planning such a thing i would make sure that the ones doing the confiscations were capable of doing so..
I know I'm late to the party here but i have not read one study or bit of information that says there has been an increase in violent crimes. As a matter of fact every thing that i have seen says that over the last 20 years violent crime in general has decreased. So if violent crime is decreasing than why is the absolute show of force so drastically increasing?
Is it possible that the extra fire power and armored cars is gearing up for a round up of fire arms from law abiding citizens? in the near future?
I would think that if i were planning such a thing i would make sure that the ones doing the confiscations were capable of doing so..
That's no shit right there! But half of them will probably be converted into smokers anyway. And besides, why leave them for the rag heads to use against the next go round?
Cheers,
George
Is this nessesary?
Slapchop, I think you're better than than a lot of people.,,not as many as me of course but who is?
Tapatalk screwed my selling...damn it! SPELLING!
Slapchop, I think you're better than than a lot of people.,,not as many as me of course but who is?
Tapatalk screwed my selling...damn it! SPELLING!
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type it into google and you will get hundreds of news agencies reporting on this.
I did not hate law enforcement until I worked for them. I don't hate all law enforcement. I did however quit after seeing just how terrible the system was. The abuse I saw was one reason I did not stick around. I wont name the department or the people, however. I remember dispatchers sharing videos of a drunk girl who was dancing naked in her cell. Through an email to the entire department. I remember a guy bashing someone's head on the hood of the cruiser. I remember an officer elbowing a handcuffed homeless guy he was taking in for trespassing at the hospital. Telling him that he was a pos, and should learn to stay away from good people. BTW the IA guys looked at "every arrest" and watched the video from "every stop". They would just laugh and share the videos among each other. One of the detectives hit a homeless guy, when he was texting on his phone. I can tell you more stories just like it from that department. The abuse, and power trip was outrageous. I left because I wanted no part in it.
Actually I hadnt slept in a couple days. A nerve? Perhaps. There are no bad Maggots..we just eat rotting flesh. Nasty job but somebody's gotta do it. Or maybe Im a closet Muslim....no problem with good decent cops but I just dont car for pork.
Siscoe, here's where it seems a lot of us are coming from: There is a SUPPOSED to be a delineation between the standing military, which, under Posse Comitatus, is NOT supposed to operate (in a non-training capacity) within our national borders, and the police, who are tasked with enforcing civil (the root of civilian) law.
The efficacy in prevention/mitigation of crime by police is much better served by creating linkages within the communities in which they operate, than in trying to threaten and/or terrorize We The People in to submission with budgetarily ruinous, ominous looking, and it turns out tactically idiotic (in a civilian setting) vehicles like the MRAP and weaponry/garb more reminiscient of the Gestapo than the picture in my head of my uncle, a 25 year Washington D.C. policeman, an upstanding American and a conscientious upholder right in the face of lawlessness.
The basic problem as I see it is that cops are supposed to support their communities, not enforce the increasingly un-American edicts of the inexplicably increasingly socialist regimes of every level of government from medium sized cities up to the national level, at the express expense of the law-abiding citizenry of the country, while having less of a measurable correlation to crime rates (of any kind) in our nation than the HIGHLY correlated trend of increasing legal private firearms ownership to decrease in ALL forms of crime (except for the continuing existence of politicians). At least until the progressive scum get their way and those of us, you and me, who are capable of some individual thought and independent action are so demonized, so painted evil with the brush of biased demagoguery that the lowing masses contentedly chew cud while we are rounded up or killed. And THAT job, I promise you, will be better served by those pockets of 'law' enforcement packing military-grade heat, while us 'poor, stupid civilians' who 'have no need for this type of hardware' (not your line, I understand, but rather the popular hue and cry) have quietly submitted for so long to it that we have nothing left but atlatls and the by-product of having eaten too much chili the night before.
I submit to you that for this reason, it is TOTALLY inappropriate for cops to have equipment like MRAPs and other military-grade hardware. No, I'm not suggesting we send cops into Watts, hardcore Detroit and Chicago, or border towns close to Mexico with rubber band guns. Not for a second. Rather, (and oddly, sort of like my response to civilian 'gun control') let's tone back the bullshit surrounding the execution of their oaths to protect and serve, so they can spend more time being trained and less time in 'gender sensitivity' courses (and related BS), so they know how to use the tools they already have, and quit hucking flashbangs in to nurseries, shooting kids with toys, and tasering octogenarians in rocking chairs with nothing more dangerous than crochet hooks in hand.
Maggot,
How was UCMCDocRetired's comment not ignorant? He posted the reason that some cover their face is ONLY because they are criminals. REALLY? We have several guys on units that choose to wear mask for multiple reason, some of those being weather related, camo related due to them conducting surveillance, and some choose to because they live where they work and prefer not to be identified by particular gang members while out with their families. Most of our narcotics guys also assist us serving the warrants and use mask as to not burn their status. As for the IA investigations, I don't know how it is there but IA is not your buddy or your friend. IA here is to confirm or deny if a policy violation occurred. The S.B.I. conducts the criminal investigations and they have no ties to most.
USMCDocRetired also post, all he needed to know was from a random statistic he pulled from the internet, that he has still yet to provide? In all honesty, how is that not ignorant?
WOULD IT BE IGNORANT AND UNEDUCATED FOR ME AS A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER TO JUDGE MY OPINION OF CITIZENS BASED ON YOURS, AND A FEW OTHERS ATTITUDE TOWARD LAW ENFORCEMENT IN GENERAL? SHOULD I JUST ASSUME THAT MOST PEOPLE HATE POLICE SO EVERYTIME I DEAL WITH THEM I SHOULD BE AN ASSHOLE BECAUSE I KNOW HOW MUCH OF AN ASSHOLE THEY WILL BE TOWARDS ME? I will give you, we are civil servants and we serve the community but we aren't door mats either.
I will say it again, YES there are bad police out there, but every time a thread comes up there are a certain few, you being one of them that just hammer POLICE in general for the actions of a few, hence my comment earlier about gun control. People get so upset when the liberal media uses random instances of gun violence to push their gun control, when on a daily basis there are hundreds of thousands of law abiding citizens who choose not to commit crimes with their firearms. Same goes for police, I've seen it. I see it on a daily basis, with the officers and agencies I work with, which is multiple agencies through out my county and state.
*** Just so everyone is crystal clear, I DO BELEIVE there are bad police out here, I have worked with some and I know many that are still employed (they will have their day one day) but my main point is, the good far out number the bad, and many here refuse to acknowledge that.
You don't have to give department names or your info, but I'm curious to know if you are basing your opinion soley on one department you worked for, and for an unknown period of time. Based on your other post, you just seem to have a rather quick judgement attitude, and if that is the case you are part of the problem just as much as they are.
That's my attitude as well. I love interacting with the public, and I try to give everybody a fair and respectful encounter but I will reciprocate what I get. Also, when it comes to searches or tickets, its nothing personal, just part of the job. So many people take it personal, that because we ask to search we think they are a dope dealer. They assume that, drug dealers have a certain look them and how dare we ask to search unless we think they deal dope. Many police do take it personal and that's the ones that need weeding. Problem with that usually is politics start coming into play, and whether it be police, fire, trash men, UPS, FedEx,Lawn Care service, De-Bo's Chicken and Waffles there will always be politics that are just out of the officers hands. Only thing I can do is continue with my work ethic and surround myself with people I trust and continue to train the new guys to have the same positive and ethical attitude.
Well said, friend.
If you look back in this thread a ways I made it really clear that I dont hate LEO's. I have friends who are int he trade I go shooting with one of them when Im in Austin, Texas. But I do hate those, LEO or not, who abuse power and authority. While I agree that the good (largely) out number the bad, I see the tide turning. It bothers me when guys like Slappy absolutely refuse to admit, as you have, that there are rotten apples in every barrel. It bothers me when I continually see these videos popping up that show total and utter disregard for the rights of the citizen, even to the point of brutalizing, and murdering them, and getting away with it. If you who claim to be the good ones wont deal with yoiur own, someone has to.
Having studied history I see what happens when a police state is allowed to flourish. Hitler's Germany, Stalin's Russia, Mao's China, Uns Korea. I see the beginnings of that here in my beautiful country. Perhaps I am just 'paying in forward' in caution because I do not want to see that happen here.
Thats one of the main reasons I come to the Hide. Aside from there being a lot of excellent info on shooting and related issues, I find here a group of men who TREASURE our liberty and believe as I do, that it is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees. I mean to keep it that way. If calling out bad apples here is part of what that takes, so be it. There is no intent to offend you or any honorable person. One of my fellow Virginians, put it better than I could.
Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!
Patrick Henry
Its not my intent to offend, but to me there is only on thing that counts, and all others must bow their knee to that one:
Liberty
Hope that puts it in a different light for you.
Oh, yeah, I also like Maggie's....anytime Im down I can stop in and am guaranteed a good laugh.
Push.....
If you dont think they are a drug dealer, and have a GODDAMN GOOD REASON, why would you ask to search. Do you just like looking through folks stuff. That is BULLSHIT. The worst part of it is that WAY TOO OFTEN, if the citizen declines the request, you detain them for a K9 unit, falsify the alert, and search anyway. Fiction? Not a bit. I've had it happen to me, and I know others who have had the same experience. Try driving through Kansas on the interstate with an out of state plate. 90% chance that you will be falsely stopped, falsely alerted on, and illegally searched.
Thats Why we are pissed.
"Returning Marines of the currant war have committed more violent acts against US civilians since returning home then any other US military branch". Is this all I need to know about Marine soldiers? Should I lump all Marines into this category? That "fact" was obtained courtesy of the internet.
